Vinaire
Sponsor
What is a body thetan in your view? May I ask?
To me it is a symbol for something that is not clearly explained by Hubbard.
It could be a via through which one is continuing to look at one's case.
.
ESMB Poster "David Mayo"
- Thread starter Dulloldfart
- Start date
What is a body thetan in your view? May I ask?
To me it is a symbol for something that is not clearly explained by Hubbard.
It could be a via through which one is continuing to look at one's case.
.
Julie Mayo
Patron
Causality
We had always stressed that a person should get any medical treatment and get in good physical condition. Back at the AAC we encouraged people to go to medical clinics to get full physical checkups if there were any physical problems. The Causality Programs continued that approach and we had daily regular exercise. We knew it was good for the brain as well as well as general well being.
The Causality Programs had a three pronged approach: The first step was to relieve negativity, (traumatic incidents, failures), on any given subject. An example of this could be relieving painful memories of giving a poor public speech and getting jeered.
The second step was education. Depending on the subject, this could be sending the person to a college or university to do.Taking the public speaking example, this could be taking a class in debating, public speaking, or performing.
The third step was internship. This is where the person went out and practiced the skills. If the person ran into further difficulties, steps 1 through 3 could be repeated if necessary.
Through years of counseling, we had discovered that a person centered approach had limitations. The person might discharge all negativity on a subject, get revitalized, then set forth and carry on with the same erroneous behavior that had gotten him in trouble in the first place. That is why the education step.
We also had discovered that many people receiving counseling such as traumatic incident reduction kept looking into their past to resolve problems long past when it was beneficial. Some past incidents are traumatic and it is beneficial to relieve them, but once that is done, there are other things that influence a person even more: education, culture, family, world events, books, current environment, friends, teachers and so forth. We developed a procedure we called the Influences program to help a person review what had positive and negative impacts on her or his life. It is amazing what huge impact just seeing an inspirational (or scary), movie can have on a person's life.
This is quite an abbreviated description, but I thought you might be interested as to how our thoughts on personal development evolved over the years.
We haven't been delivering Causality Programs for quite a number of years, but I think the results were positive.
We had always stressed that a person should get any medical treatment and get in good physical condition. Back at the AAC we encouraged people to go to medical clinics to get full physical checkups if there were any physical problems. The Causality Programs continued that approach and we had daily regular exercise. We knew it was good for the brain as well as well as general well being.
The Causality Programs had a three pronged approach: The first step was to relieve negativity, (traumatic incidents, failures), on any given subject. An example of this could be relieving painful memories of giving a poor public speech and getting jeered.
The second step was education. Depending on the subject, this could be sending the person to a college or university to do.Taking the public speaking example, this could be taking a class in debating, public speaking, or performing.
The third step was internship. This is where the person went out and practiced the skills. If the person ran into further difficulties, steps 1 through 3 could be repeated if necessary.
Through years of counseling, we had discovered that a person centered approach had limitations. The person might discharge all negativity on a subject, get revitalized, then set forth and carry on with the same erroneous behavior that had gotten him in trouble in the first place. That is why the education step.
We also had discovered that many people receiving counseling such as traumatic incident reduction kept looking into their past to resolve problems long past when it was beneficial. Some past incidents are traumatic and it is beneficial to relieve them, but once that is done, there are other things that influence a person even more: education, culture, family, world events, books, current environment, friends, teachers and so forth. We developed a procedure we called the Influences program to help a person review what had positive and negative impacts on her or his life. It is amazing what huge impact just seeing an inspirational (or scary), movie can have on a person's life.
This is quite an abbreviated description, but I thought you might be interested as to how our thoughts on personal development evolved over the years.
We haven't been delivering Causality Programs for quite a number of years, but I think the results were positive.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Any idea where we could find one Vin?
Jeez, no. He'll hijack this thread. You should be banned for encouraging him.
Paul
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Jeez, no. He'll hijack this thread. You should be banned for encouraging him.
Paul
True dat.
Sorry.
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Any idea where we could find one Vin?
Don't bother to thank me.
Mark A. Baker
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
David Mayo
Patron with Honors
Paul,
I read your article on the link you provided here.
I could say, been there, thought that, and realized it was inconsistent with anything I'd observed. But would that help? No. So I won't say it. Oops but I just did say it. FWTW. It is still not consistent with what I have observed.
David
Veda
Sponsor
Some posts from other threads
The idea of "space cooties," or their equivalent, does seem to have a long tradition in Scientology, although the term "fleas" is used.
Actual excerpt starts at 00:35 for those who wish to skip the introduction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_SFScSD_LM
From the NOTs materials, (Supposedly, somewhere there's a recording of Hubbard saying this):
"You have to actually put some life into them to activate them. They are like pebbles on a beach... But listen, you're living in a universe which is crawling with this type of stuff. And planet Earth was the dumping ground to end all dumping grounds."
And yet, from a lecture from the 1950s:
"...personifies MEST... They talk to them you know. 'What's the matter with you hat?' They imbue them with personality..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDd9fW7g4Y&feature=related
From the book 'Messiah or Madman?', from the chapter 'Are you Haunted?'. This is a short except from that chapter: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/origins/corydon-messiah.html
The chapter also includes references to, or quotes from, Julian Huxley, Paracelsus, Gurdjieff, Vernon Howard, Mouni Sadhu, Thomas Edison, amongst others, plus an examination of the subject of "Tulpa-making."
"While still in the Church, I observed something very odd: the wealthier the Scientologist, the more 'Body Thetans' he had. Such unfortunate people were being sold seemingly endless auditing for the eradication of their 'fleas'."
And Hubbard wrote, ominously, in 'Ron's Journal 30':
"But there was one discovery in 1978 that I haven't said very much about and am really not likely to since it's a sad thing. It is what really happens to a thetan who is not salvaged and goes down the chute. Man, when I saw that and knew it to be true I actually felt sorry for these guys that try to hit at us. Poor devils. Some religions talk about hell. It's an understatement of what really happens."
Perhaps there is some greater wisdom (that is honest and does not use slight of hand or "bait and switch"), other that Hubbard, that can be consulted...
Video excerpt from the 'Bardo', with Leonard Cohen narrating. (Ending segment not from original.)
"Recognize them as a reflection of your own mind. Recognition and liberation are simultaneous."
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-212863829226111861&q=tibetan+book+of+the+dead
The idea of "space cooties," or their equivalent, does seem to have a long tradition in Scientology, although the term "fleas" is used.
Actual excerpt starts at 00:35 for those who wish to skip the introduction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_SFScSD_LM
From the NOTs materials, (Supposedly, somewhere there's a recording of Hubbard saying this):
"You have to actually put some life into them to activate them. They are like pebbles on a beach... But listen, you're living in a universe which is crawling with this type of stuff. And planet Earth was the dumping ground to end all dumping grounds."
And yet, from a lecture from the 1950s:
"...personifies MEST... They talk to them you know. 'What's the matter with you hat?' They imbue them with personality..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDd9fW7g4Y&feature=related
From the book 'Messiah or Madman?', from the chapter 'Are you Haunted?'. This is a short except from that chapter: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/origins/corydon-messiah.html
The chapter also includes references to, or quotes from, Julian Huxley, Paracelsus, Gurdjieff, Vernon Howard, Mouni Sadhu, Thomas Edison, amongst others, plus an examination of the subject of "Tulpa-making."
"While still in the Church, I observed something very odd: the wealthier the Scientologist, the more 'Body Thetans' he had. Such unfortunate people were being sold seemingly endless auditing for the eradication of their 'fleas'."
And Hubbard wrote, ominously, in 'Ron's Journal 30':
"But there was one discovery in 1978 that I haven't said very much about and am really not likely to since it's a sad thing. It is what really happens to a thetan who is not salvaged and goes down the chute. Man, when I saw that and knew it to be true I actually felt sorry for these guys that try to hit at us. Poor devils. Some religions talk about hell. It's an understatement of what really happens."
Perhaps there is some greater wisdom (that is honest and does not use slight of hand or "bait and switch"), other that Hubbard, that can be consulted...
Video excerpt from the 'Bardo', with Leonard Cohen narrating. (Ending segment not from original.)
"Recognize them as a reflection of your own mind. Recognition and liberation are simultaneous."
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-212863829226111861&q=tibetan+book+of+the+dead
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Possibly the wealthier a person is the 'greater the havingness'. Yeah, that must be it. Perfectly natural.
Mark A. Baker
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Very, very beautiful Veda (and thank-you).
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Thanks very much for the comment. Your experience in the area certainly beats my theorizing any time. I don't mind at all.
Paul
Vinaire
Sponsor
All the OT III phenomenon can be explained simply by means of LOOKING. No such concept as "body thetan" or even "thetan" is needed.
.
MostlyLurker
Patron Meritorious
Interesting indeed. Thanks.
Certainly Co$ wants people to think that out of Scn we are degraded beings with no purpose of improvement. The "SP" declares control communication lines for those still in but also act as a wrong indication on the declaree and the feeling of betrayal may well pin down the morale of an ex. I've read John McMaster didn't end his wife well, he had alcohol problems. Mike Rinder statements that you stopped doing any Scn in the late '80 and David 'wasted' his time surfing was hinting in that direction.
So, it makes me very happy to learn that you indeed kept improving yourselves (eg. went back to school) and kept helping others improve too.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
If this is a multiple choice, I have made my selection:
1. Hubbard tech of talking to invisible beings.
2. Vinaire tech of talking to invisible knowledge instead of talking to beings.
3. Human tech of talking to visible humans.
2. Vinaire tech of talking to invisible knowledge instead of talking to beings.
3. Human tech of talking to visible humans.
FoTi
Crusader
FoTi
Crusader
I agree!!!!!
FoTi
Crusader
FoTi
Crusader
Can you say more about this?
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