Ex-member of the CoS- Brian Cox

[Gib]

I didn't say it was written in policy, I said that it was expected.

Were you ever in the Sea Org?

Debbie Cook could rip her juniors a new asshole with her yelling and mocked up anger.

I have seen juniors being crushed to tears with the yelling, make wrong and invalidation aimed at them by their seniors.

But I am sure there are policies that encourage such a thing. Let me look quickly and see if I can locate one. Here we go.

From HCOPL 4 October 1968 ETHICS PRESENCE

As an executive you get compliance because you have Ethics Presence and persistence and can get mad.

Against non-compliance you add ferocity with the aim of continuing the comm line.

Wrath is effective but used in moderation and only in moments of urgency.

I did the "welcome to the sea org" course, started the next course, I believe something to do with ethics. One day instead of going to lunch, why I said fuck this shit and bolted. Whole time in was one week or so. Why didn't I completely bolt from the whole subject, because I was brainwashed with fixed ideas by hub and I had no data on the actual history of the church other than written in the books. My favorite book too was A New Slant on Life.

You are correct on the second part, an executive can get mad. I knew that.

 

[Veda]

If you feel that it helps you, then it helps you.

-snip-

The people surrounding Brian are Sceintologists promoting and selling a Bridge that in no bridge, and can lead - at "advanced levels" - to states of mental illness, and even physical illness.

If he continues beyond the lower grades, then his next step is "Clear."

At Clear, he'll descend further into Scientology by placing himself in the box called "Clear."

Then his next steps are the the OT levels.

Chances are, his local center will not be able to provide all the services he needs, and he'll be sent to someone such as Rey Robles (who is incompetent and dishonest), or to Ron's Orgs which is closely associated with the group with which he is currently receiving services.

Why encourage that?

 

[Purple Rain]

This may be the only R2-45 order from Hubbard to be presented as evidence. Ron directly ordered the Sea Org to murder these 12 people he listed. Aside from the insanity of saying it's false information, yet they are secret documents, it only gets more insane. And that old chestnut of it being so "advanced" it's dangerous in the wrong hands.

Strip them of all they have sacrificed for within the cult, Fair Game them to destroy their lives, their family life, their career, and shoot them with a gun, not necessarily in that order.

I knew about the R2-45 order - basically putting a contract or hit out on those people named - but I have never seen an ORDER for reverse processes to be run before i.e. he ordered 'reverse Scientology' to fuck them up and break their minds as per what was done to Nancy Many. Evil arsehole.

 

[Gadfly]

I knew about the R2-45 order - basically putting a contract or hit out on those people named - but I have never seen an ORDER for reverse processes to be run before i.e. he ordered 'reverse Scientology' to fuck them up and break their minds as per what was done to Nancy Many. Evil arsehole.

I never quite understood this "reverse Scientology". That would imply that there is a "good" and "decent" version.

Scientology is all, 100% REVERSED to start with!

Where are these "reverse processes"? Hubbard had a strong proclivity to write down and outline everything in great detail.

So where are the HCOBs that detail out how to run these "reverse" processes? Where are the detailed instructions? This is just Hubbard blowing more hot air - to scare the rest of the still existing believers who will take it seriously.

I suspect that this idea of "reverse processes" is make believe - it is a gimmick used to control the believers. See, the concept will mean something to you if you first assume that regular Scientology processes are "good" - thus the "reverse" versions must be aimed at caving in a person and causing the reactive mind to overwhelm a person.

That is not to say that Scientology won't use standard per policy LRH-defined methods to destroy the mind and livelihood of any real or imagined enemy.

 

[Anonycat]

I never quite understood this "reverse Scientology". That would imply that there is a "good" and "decent" version.

Scientology is all, 100% REVERSED to start with!

Where are these "reverse processes"? Hubbard had a strong proclivity to write down and outline everything in great detail.

So where are the HCOBs that detail out how to run these "reverse" processes? Where are the detailed instructions? This is just Hubbard blowing more hot air - to scare the rest of the still existing believers who will take it seriously.

I suspect that this idea of "reverse processes" is make believe - it is a gimmick used to control the believers. See, the concept will mean something to you if you first assume that regular Scientology processes are "good" - thus the "reverse" versions must be aimed at caving in a person and causing the reactive mind to overwhelm a person.

That is not to say that Scientology won't use standard per policy LRH-defined methods to destroy the mind and livelihood of any real or imagined enemy.

Hubbard's scientology is based on black magic and various other things previously used or dreamed up, and he felt that reverse (dianetics) auditing, or so-called black dianetics, could make a person insane, and break their mind in a single session.

 

[Gib]

I never quite understood this "reverse Scientology". That would imply that there is a "good" and "decent" version.

Scientology is all, 100% REVERSED to start with!

Where are these "reverse processes"? Hubbard had a strong proclivity to write down and outline everything in great detail.

So where are the HCOBs that detail out how to run these "reverse" processes? Where are the detailed instructions? This is just Hubbard blowing more hot air - to scare the rest of the still existing believers who will take it seriously.

I suspect that this idea of "reverse processes" is make believe - it is a gimmick used to control the believers. See, the concept will mean something to you if you first assume that regular Scientology processes are "good" - thus the "reverse" versions must be aimed at caving in a person and causing the reactive mind to overwhelm a person.

That is not to say that Scientology won't use standard per policy LRH-defined methods to destroy the mind and livelihood of any real or imagined enemy.

I hear yah.

Is it, reverse scientology, not based on the belief (or knowningness in scientologist thinking because a scientologist no believe, he/she knows) that there is a reactive mind, and there is a clear and there is a state of OT. And pyschs on the whole track implanted everybody and tricked everybody from a higher free floating state to a meat body state. So, reverse scientology is trapping, tricking, implanting. :confused2:

Reverse scientology is scientology. IE, PR promo pieces being sent to members to show how great scientology is expanding, and see, we got success stories of people, stated right here in this promo piece of how wonderful I feel. All subjective success stories, and a twist of words for objective stories.

 

[What's It All About]

I hear yah.

Is it, reverse scientology, not based on the belief (or knowningness in scientologist thinking because a scientologist no believe, he/she knows) that there is a reactive mind, and there is a clear and there is a state of OT. And pyschs on the whole track implanted everybody and tricked everybody from a higher free floating state to a meat body state. So, reverse scientology is trapping, tricking, implanting. :confused2:

In other words, reverse scientology is scientology: tricking people with false promises, implanting a belief that scientology is the only way and trapping them with recorded audits and threats of exposure of their secrets and eternal damnation. And it works, for a while.

 

[Anonycat]

I hear yah.

Is it, reverse scientology, not based on the belief (or knowningness in scientologist thinking because a scientologist no believe, he/she knows) that there is a reactive mind, and there is a clear and there is a state of OT. And pyschs on the whole track implanted everybody and tricked everybody from a higher free floating state to a meat body state. So, reverse scientology is trapping, tricking, implanting. :confused2:

The dox are within the ones I have posted, but will try to locate it for sharing. He does cover reverse auditing/black dianetics.

 

[Gadfly]

Hubbard's scientology is based on black magic and various other things previously used or dreamed up, and he felt that reverse (dianetics) auditing, or so-called black dianetics, could make a person insane, and break their mind in a single session.

Scientology itself is not Black Magick though it may very well be rooted in a type of black magic.

Hubbard might have practiced various forms of not-so-white magick, and Scientology may have been his tool to realize his own magical vision, but Scientology itself is simply a mixture of psychology, psycho-analysis, eastern Vedic philosophy and New Age notions. It also contains an extreme amount of Madison Avenue manipulation (advertizing) techniques and social/group/mind control methods.

People say this from time to time, and being one who is more than a little familiar with the subject of magick (both white and black), and having done courses like the PDC Course, and the Exteriorization and Phenomena of Space Course, it is NOT true. People who practice magick generally know that they are doing so, but people in Scientology are for the most part suckers who hold very exaggerated notions of their own knowledge and abilities.

The primary traditional aspects of genuine magick (affirmations and visualization) are missing from Scientology. That is not to say that Hubbard hasn't tricked many into affirming and visualizing his entire nutty paradigm into existence, but Hubbard was the ONLY one who was a "game maker". All the rest were "pawns". At the best most, Hubbard tricked his followers into visualizing and affirming according to his model and pattern. Scientology might be the best and largest experiment ever conducted in terms of getting a large group of people to imagine non-existent things and scenarios into existence. It does contain aspects of magick, but Scientologists are the effect of it. They do not consciously or knowingly practice magick.

In magick the magician chooses the pattern or model to bring into reality. And he does so using various techniques. In Scientology Hubbard created the pattern and model, and he tricked all his followers to contribute to the visualization of the model through participation with the Scientology Bridge - which is really a life long magickal RITUAL. In normal magickal ritual, the group members consciously agree to participate in the co-creation of the image. In Scientology, the followers have been tricked to do so. The content of the Scientology paradigm are the "model". Every believer who accepts the various ideas of Hubbard's is another contributor to the magickal "astral object".

While each Scientology member may very well contribute to the magickal work, they do so unknowingly, and are pawns in the whole process.

Okay, I hear the THEORY - I hear the CLAIM - that so-called black dianetics, could make a person insane, and break their mind in a single session.

SHOW ME.

Everything else about Scientology has made it onto the Internet. Where are the policies, orders and HCOBs that explain, describe and detail such "black dianetics". It is most likely a fictional term, that has no basis in reality anywhere. It is like the "dwindling spiral" or a "clear". These are terms and descriptions, CLAIMS made about realities that don't exist. Like so much of Scientology. "Black dianetics" is probably just more stage gimmickry used to razzle-dazzle the captive audience of followers.

This is like people who get wrapped up in the Devil and Satanism. Well, to believe THAT, you first MUST believe in the power of the good side - God.

The same with "black dianetics". For there to be anything to "black dianetics' there would have to be great validity and legitimacy to regular dianetics. Is Hubbard's understanding of the mind in dianetics so exact, perfect, advanced and detailed, that he could "reverse" it to destroy a person's mind in one sessions?

If you believe that, then you are a true believer too. :confused2:

Isn't Hubbard the dolt who said that "Revolt in the Stars" was going to key-in the planet to the OT III incident? And that images of volcanoes on book covers would draw people to Scientology, because HE was the ONLY ONE who understood the true nature of the catastrophe that happened to this sector 75 million years ago?

It is all make-believe. It is all fiction.

Break a person's mind in one session . . . . PLEASE!!!!! You attribute far more power to Scientology than is actually there.

Now, if I actual see really stuff in writing, I will happily change my mind.

And, who is going to sit there an accept auditing designed to destroy your mind in one session?

 

[Gadfly]

The dox are within the ones I have posted, but will try to locate it for sharing. He does cover reverse auditing/black dianetics.

Yes, please do. I would like to see these. It is a piece of the puzzle that is currently missing for me.

 

[Purple Rain]

I never quite understood this "reverse Scientology". That would imply that there is a "good" and "decent" version.

Scientology is all, 100% REVERSED to start with!

Where are these "reverse processes"? Hubbard had a strong proclivity to write down and outline everything in great detail.

So where are the HCOBs that detail out how to run these "reverse" processes? Where are the detailed instructions? This is just Hubbard blowing more hot air - to scare the rest of the still existing believers who will take it seriously.

I suspect that this idea of "reverse processes" is make believe - it is a gimmick used to control the believers. See, the concept will mean something to you if you first assume that regular Scientology processes are "good" - thus the "reverse" versions must be aimed at caving in a person and causing the reactive mind to overwhelm a person.

That is not to say that Scientology won't use standard per policy LRH-defined methods to destroy the mind and livelihood of any real or imagined enemy.

Wow! There is some pretty interesting stuff on the internet about this! I'll just a post a link to Karin Spaink's site for now: DELIBERATE MISUSE OF HUBBARD TECH but apparently Warrior also had some interesting stuff to say about it on ARS and there are some ESMB threads on the topic as well.

Edit: Ok, here is the ARS thread

Warrior says

There are many "processes" that can be applied. The purpose for applying "reverse auditing" is to induce a psychotic break in a person. Some key words to Google: 'black dianetics' and Tabayoyon.

then somebody called Eldonbraun says

Yeah, it is basically a guilt trip inducing thing. Positive processing asks neutral questions designed to let the person find "stuff" and look at it more or less objectively. Negative or "reverse" processing asks questions containing an implicit accusation that will introvert the person into mental quicksand.

I'll give you a specific example I heard about recently. A former Scientologist took Harry Palmer's Avatar Master course some time ago. She pissed off Avra, Harry's wife and chief trainer for some reason, so dear Avra gave her the assignment of walking around a nearby lake in the late Florida summertime, repeatedly asking herself the question, "Why do I hate myself?"

That was reverse auditing with a vengeance. The former Scientologist knew enough to question the origin of the process, which Avra said "hadn't been published yet." So instead of running the process, she walked around the lake trying to figure out why Avra wanted to demolish her.

That might partially explain the difference.

Edit to the edit: Here is a working link to Taboyoyon's affidavit

This was the application of Black Dianetics because:

(a) Fishman was not properly trained in the use of the E meter;

(b) My experience as an RPF case supervisor in handling cases such as Fishman leads me to the opinion that Fishman was being encouraged touse the tech on himself rather than under the supervision of supervisors and auditors. This would, in MY opinion, only lead to disastrous and/or suicidal consequences. Indeed, L. Ron Hubbard in 'Some Notes on Black Dianetics' states "a person can drive himself mad on Dianetics without any trouble" ... "with Black Dianetics you could tailor make any kind of insanity you want to. The person might not manifest this the next day, maybe not for thirty days. Maybe three months later he is walking down the street and feeling a little bit tired when somebody honks just right or something of the sort, all of a sudden he goes crazy and there he is -- insane! It's a wonderfully smooth way of committing murder." Emphasis added. Exhibit.

 

[Gadfly]

. Indeed, L. Ron Hubbard in 'Some Notes on Black Dianetics' states "a person can drive himself mad on Dianetics without any trouble" ... "with Black Dianetics you could tailor make any kind of insanity you want to. The person might not manifest this the next day, maybe not for thirty days. Maybe three months later he is walking down the street and feeling a little bit tired when somebody honks just right or something of the sort, all of a sudden he goes crazy and there he is -- insane! It's a wonderfully smooth way of committing murder."

I still think it is all bullhit.

"tailor make any kind of insanity you want . . . "

THAT is just more of Hubbard, the big fatass blowhard, exaggerating his own knowledge and control over human minds.

This above quote is like so much else of Hubbard's. He is spinning a fiction tale. It is for the most part vague and general, with no real specifics, and the reader can DUB-IN how it must or could be true.

It is like so much of Scientology - an empty claim with little or no substance. And some accept and believe it.

And, auditing a person without proper food or sleep, while certainly "out-tech" is NOT any sort of black dianetics that will turn them into shrieking madmen.

Please post an actual real example here. I don't have time to spend hours searching on the Internet for evidence of something that most likely doesn't exist.

But, if somebody posts REAL evidence here, I will gladly change my mind accordingly. Right now my gut tells me otherwise.

Hubbard was a great con, but he was not THAT smart.

As always, I could be wrong.

Scientology as it exists is an amazing work of mind control, but it has much more to do with the well-indoctrinated BELIEF SYSTEM than with the auditing.

I quickly scanned some of the stuff. It sounds more like versions of torture where the oppressor deprives the person of food and sleep, and invalidates the shot out of them until they totally crack. Until the personality crumbles. THAT has very little to do with any nasty application of "Ron's amazing mental technology of Dianetics and Scientology".

"to misuse the Hubbard Tech to create extreme mental and emotional distress and insanity in persons I was instructed to 'security or sec check'"

That is a nice general statement and claim. Hubbard once said that his processes and methods could make any person an OT in a few weeks. But it never did. I think the reverse is probably also true. This seems to be greatly exaggerated.

Usual and common mind control techniques used to turn people into raving imbeciles has a long history, and has nothing to do with "black dianetics". I suspect the term is a "boogie man".

Now, that doesn't mean that Hubbard and Miscavige haven't tired everything in their arsenal to destroy people who they didn't like. I just don't see that there is any actual clear cut "tech" of "black dianetics", where dianetics, all by itself, can be intentionally misused to turn a person insane.

 

[Purple Rain]

Wow! There is some pretty interesting stuff on the internet about this! I'll just a post a link to Karin Spaink's site for now: DELIBERATE MISUSE OF HUBBARD TECH but apparently Warrior also had some interesting stuff to say about it on ARS and there are some ESMB threads on the topic as well.

Edit: Ok, here is the ARS thread

Warrior says



then somebody called Eldonbraun says



Edit to the edit: Here is a working link to Taboyoyon's affidavit

OMG - hello, Alice Wu....

When I had responsibilities for overseeing how the Scientology auditing technology is applied to cases of Scientologists assigned to the RPF, I received orders directly from Miscavige, Marc Yeager, Ray Mithoff, Sandi Wilhere and Hansuli Stalli, and others, to misuse the Hubbard Tech to create extreme mental and emotional distress and insanity in persons I was instructed to 'security or sec check'. We used the Hubbard Tech, including security checking on the E-Meter, in conjunction with well used coercive mind control techniques of sleep deprivation, starvation, dehydration and denial of decent accommodations. As an example of the appalling conditions to which RPFers are sometimes exposed, on one occasion when I was on RPF, my sleeping facility was a slab inside the vault of the morgue of the old Cedars Sinai Hospital. While on the RPF at Gold, I also occupied the chicken coop dormitory. This was an old chicken coop which still smelled of chicken coop droppings. However, it was not only RPFers who were deprived of adequate food and sleep. At Gold, hundreds of Sea Org members would be deprived of adequate sleep and put on a diet of rice and beans sometimes for six weeks at a time-and their weekly pay of approximately S30.00 would be cut in half. This would be punishment for lower ethics conditions such as poor production. However, when this occurred, David Miscavige would still eat his bacon, eggs, sandwiches and steak dinners.

36. The response of human beings to these conditions is somewhat predictable. I saw many people undergo psychotic breaks. By psychotic breaks I mean being reduced to incoherent babbling, stripping off clothes, crawling around on the ground, banging heads, limbs and other body parts against furniture and walls, barking, losing all sense of one's identity and intense and persistent suicidal ideation. This is what Scientology calls the PTS type III phenomena. There is a policy which describes this. Exh O. I have seen many PTS type III cases. It is my opinion that Fishman has been deliberately driven PTS type III by Black Dianetics and/or reverse processing.

 

[Purple Rain]

I still think it is all bullhit.

"tailor make any kind of insanity you want . . . "

THAT is just more of Hubbard, the big fatass blowhard, exaggerating his own knowledge and control over human minds.

This above quote is like so much else of Hubbard's. He is spinning a fiction tale. It is for the most part vague and general, with no real specifics, and the reader can DUB-IN how it must or could be true.

It is like so much of Scientology - an empty claim with little or no substance. And some accept and believe it.

And, auditing a person without proper food or sleep, while certainly "out-tech" is NOT any sort of black dianetics that will turn them into shrieking madmen.

Please post an actual real example here. I don't have time to spend hours searching on the Internet for evidence of something that most likely doesn't exist.

But, if somebody posts REAL evidence here, I will gladly change my mind accordingly. Right now my gut tells me otherwise.

Hubbard was a great con, but he was not THAT smart.

As always, I could be wrong.

Scientology as it exists is an amazing work of mind control, but it has much more to do with the well-indoctrinated BELIEF SYSTEM than with the auditing.

Well, it happened to Nancy Many, it happened to Carmel, and according to Taboyoyon and Warrior it happened to many others. It probably happened to Lisa McPherson. In any case, Hubbard did order Qual to use 'reverse Scientology' so presumably the Qual terminals knew what to do.

I don't have time to chase this around either and really don't much mind what you believe either way.

 

[Anonycat]

Scientology itself is not Black Magick though it may very well be rooted in a type of black magic. snips all over the place<

I was at first comfortable with my understanding of Hubbard's timeline of writing; pulp sci-fi --> magic and admissions era --> dianetics --> scientology. He credited drugs as tools in his achievements. His father was a true naval officer, as well as another female relative. He lied & cheated in the re-creation of his background, be it a PhD or a Nuclear Physicist, he was eager to overcome his bi-polar drive to become what his elders had, but he could not rise to, as he had no qualifications.

The primary traditional aspects of genuine magick (affirmations and visualization) are missing from Scientology.

I might be wrong here, but I read Crowley before Hubbard, and I found some of Hubbard's paranoia to be parallel to black fooken magick. The whole SP/PTS woo-woo struck me as akin to spells, magical ability overcoming another, and so on. It was the same crazy shit. At least in my eyes, as I read Crowley then Hubbard. Also, Hubbard sucked as a writer more than anyone I can think of. It's just horrible.

In magick the magician chooses the pattern or model to bring into reality. And he does so using various techniques. In Scientology Hubbard created the pattern and model, and he tricked all his followers to contribute to the visualization of the model through participation with the Scientology Bridge - which is really a life long magickal RITUAL. In normal magickal ritual, the group members consciously agree to participate in the co-creation of the image. In Scientology, the followers have been tricked to do so. The content of the Scientology paradigm are the "model". Every believer who accepts the various ideas of Hubbard's is another contributor to the magickal "astral object".

Yeah.

While each Scientology member may very well contribute to the magickal work, they do so unknowingly, and are pawns in the whole process.



Okay, I hear the THEORY - I hear the CLAIM - that so-called black dianetics, could make a person insane, and break their mind in a single session.

SHOW ME.

I will go hunting for the dox - and really, I have seen it referred to. Really!

Isn't Hubbard the dolt who said that "Revolt in the Stars" was going to key-in the planet to the OT III incident? And that images of volcanoes on book covers would draw people to Scientology, because HE was the ONLY ONE who understood the true nature of the catastrophe that happened to this sector 75 million years ago?

Yes, he said the volcano image on the cover would drive sales. Uh, sure, he is the only one to survive the wall of fire and ... all the crazy. Sure, Ron. Sure.

It is all make-believe. It is all fiction.

ALL of it.

Break a person's mind in one session . . . . PLEASE!!!!! You attribute far more power to Scientology than is actually there.

He sure did -- like Xenu stories being fatal.

Now, if I actual see really stuff in writing, I will happily change my mind.

And, who is going to sit there an accept auditing designed to destroy your mind in one session?

I guess the reverse auditing was intended to be conducted against the victim's better judgement, or will. And no, I don't think there was a drop of reality to it.

 

[Gadfly]

I guess the reverse auditing was intended to be conducted against the victim's better judgement, or will.

I suppose that you could weld the cans to their hands, hold their eyes open with paper-clips, strap them into the chair, and hold a gun to their head to answer honestly.

It just sounds so very unrealistic to me.

If a person already is a true believer, they are already willing to conform to all sorts of other abuse. The "black dianetics" wouldn't be necessary. And, if they are not a true believer, they won't put up with it.

It seems that the ONLY type person who it might work on is a FZ person. Why? Because he or she still believes a great deal of the Hubbard nonsense, he or she would be willing to get auditing, and if a covert op could be run where a Church OSA goon acted as the auditor (having infiltrated the FZ). . . well then maybe.

Enough of this. This is such a tiny aspect of the problem of Scientology. I will pay it no more attention.

 

[Panda Termint]

Yes, please do. I would like to see these. It is a piece of the puzzle that is currently missing for me.

The simplest form of Reverse Auditing consists primarily of deliberately committed GAEs (Gross Auditing Errors). Simple things which can snarl the case of a Believer. eg. Wrong Items, Incidents restimulated but unflattened, Eval & Inval of PC data etc basically the whole gamut of what would be GAEs in auditing. For a real world demonstration of such ask a "Recovery Team" to visit and refuse to be handled. This will usually, at the very least, leave you with the impression that the only solution is more auditing.
They'd "rather have you dead than incapable".

There are many other methods of Reverse Processing; deliberately enlivening masses, restimulative imagery and language, calling charged items and terminals from Upper Level materials at people (as in the infamous R6 Mission handling of a US-based Squirrel Group), deliberately missing withholds etc. Someone once wrote about having a C/S ordering them to go to a location and "flow cancerous BTs" at a particular person (it's here on ESMB, I think) and so forth. Basically, anything a good auditor would never do to a PC is grist to that particular mill.

Yes, Hubbard was blowhard who liked to scare people and a lot of it is "control by fear" but it's quite obvious, at least to me, that the tech of Dianetics and Scientology can be (and is) easily tailored to suit evil purposes. It seems to me that it is possibly only effective on people who firmly believe in the "Power of the Tech". People who have a firm belief in their ability to control their own minds aren't too likely to be harmed by these methods. YMMV.

 

[Purple Rain]

The simplest form of Reverse Auditing consists primarily of deliberately committed GAEs (Gross Auditing Errors). Simple things which can snarl the case of a Believer. eg. Wrong Items, Incidents restimulated but unflattened, Eval & Inval of PC data etc basically the whole gamut of what would be GAEs in auditing. For a real world demonstration of such ask a "Recovery Team" to visit and refuse to be handled. This will usually, at the very least, leave you with the impression that the only solution is more auditing.
They'd "rather have you dead than incapable".

There are many other methods of Reverse Processing; deliberately enlivening masses, restimulative imagery and language, calling charged items and terminals from Upper Level materials at people (as in the infamous R6 Mission handling of a US-based Squirrel Group), deliberately missing withholds etc. Someone once wrote about having a C/S ordering them to go to a location and "flow cancerous BTs" at a particular person (it's here on ESMB, I think) and so forth. Basically, anything a good auditor would never do to a PC is grist to that particular mill.

Yes, Hubbard was blowhard who liked to scare people and a lot of it is "control by fear" but it's quite obvious, at least to me, that the tech of Dianetics and Scientology can be (and is) easily tailored to suit evil purposes. It seems to me that it is possibly only effective on people who firmly believe in the "Power of the Tech". People who have a firm belief in their ability to control their own minds aren't too likely to be harmed by these methods. YMMV.

Yes, exactly Panda! Another quote on that ARS thread mentioned a lot of similar stuff:

'processing' is defined by Hubbard as a tactic applied that makes a person better.

'Reverse processing' is designed to make a person worse... it can take many forms.

In scn it is false accusations, then enforced. Saying something discreditable read on the e meter when it didnt read ...then pursuing the protest as a sign that the bogus issue is legitimate...demanding the person answer up etc...as you accuse them. That sort of thing.... until the person is driven to complete insanity as described by Andre Tabayoyan (comonly practiced in Scn upper managment against its own staff when they began to notice the fraud)

There are limitless variations. Asking a question then never letting the person answer for instance.. If its a minor question then its minor reverse processing... it its on a hot subject, such as some tragedy or threat in the persons life then the damage can be major... depending on how its done and how persistently and with what vigor the person is accused etc. (scn used gangs of people to accuse a person in what was called a 'gang bang security check')

On a less obvious level... for the sake of this definition lets assume that there really are no Marcabian fleets of jerks circling the earth in mothah ships... issuing bogus mental thought patterns intended to control people as Hubbard had claimed.... you can make your victim go insane by convincing him that there *is this Marcabian invasion under way, and prove it to him by planting the suggestion earlier.... then convince the guy that if 'marcabian invasion' reads on the meter... thats it true. You have now generated another scientologist nut case...but he looks normal.

Thats also reverse processing, it turns the dupe into your slave since you are the one offering a solution to the 'Marcabian invalsion'... Hubbard created the lie, then the threat, then enforced both, then offered a solution. Thats all 'processing'...it has bad effects... so to use Hubbards term... its 'reverse processing' actually... masked as a good thing, processing, by Hubbard. the man lied a lot.

Lying is a dead give away... people with decent intentions don't lie. Hubbard lived life lying pathologically.. and advocating that as 'a way to control people'.

Lying is also 'reverse processing'.

if the dupe wakes up on the science fiction baloney... then the cult reverse processes the person in ways that drive him into a nervous wreck......by these enforced bogus read tactics Ive mentioned...

The victim ends up foaming at the mouth driven into a state of blubbering non comprehension your target is in no position to expose the crap he used to control people... the marcabian invasion sort of thing.. Hubbard specialized in the use of both tactics.

Phil Scott

 

[Anonycat]

The simplest form of Reverse Auditing consists primarily of deliberately committed GAEs (Gross Auditing Errors). Simple things which can snarl the case of a Believer. eg. Wrong Items, Incidents restimulated but unflattened, Eval & Inval of PC data etc basically the whole gamut of what would be GAEs in auditing. For a real world demonstration of such ask a "Recovery Team" to visit and refuse to be handled. This will usually, at the very least, leave you with the impression that the only solution is more auditing.
They'd "rather have you dead than incapable".

There are many other methods of Reverse Processing; deliberately enlivening masses, restimulative imagery and language, calling charged items and terminals from Upper Level materials at people (as in the infamous R6 Mission handling of a US-based Squirrel Group), deliberately missing withholds etc. Someone once wrote about having a C/S ordering them to go to a location and "flow cancerous BTs" at a particular person (it's here on ESMB, I think) and so forth. Basically, anything a good auditor would never do to a PC is grist to that particular mill.

Yes, Hubbard was blowhard who liked to scare people and a lot of it is "control by fear" but it's quite obvious, at least to me, that the tech of Dianetics and Scientology can be (and is) easily tailored to suit evil purposes. It seems to me that it is possibly only effective on people who firmly believe in the "Power of the Tech". People who have a firm belief in their ability to control their own minds aren't too likely to be harmed by these methods. YMMV.

You explained it brilliantly.

 

[Lermanet_com]

I recommend a great book on that subject: "How to Win Friends and Influence People"-Dale Carnegie. You don't really make many friends by taking a guy who you met that says, "I'm interested in a, b, and c." and saying to him "What you really need is to look at X, y and z!"

There seems to be very little self-awareness demonstrated here on what the effects of "shoulding" all over people is.

There's this dogmatic, "I know the truth You need!" attitude in here and I get the feeling that very few can actually smell it. It's like there are people that actually think that that can be called help.

Just so y'all know right now, I won't be joining that cult. Fair enough?

It is called "live and let live". Learn it.