Commander Birdsong
Crusader
yo! winston!
present and accounted for
present and accounted for
FCDC circa 1970
- Thread starter nozeno
- Start date
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nozeno
Gold Meritorious Patron
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
US casualties in Afghanistan
Year US UK Other Total
2001 12 0 0 12
2002 49 3 18 70
2003 48 0 10 58
2004 52 1 7 60
2005 99 1 31 131
2006 98 39 54 191
2007 117 42 73 232
2008 155 51 89 295
2009 317 108 96 521
2010 433 98 106 637
Total 1380 343 484 2207
Notice that in the two years of Obama's rules of engagement (restrictions on when our side is allowed to shoot), we've had more casualties than in the prior 8 years
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
why thank you enthetan
my republican, veteran, stepson of a Second Marine, Okinawa JARHEAD blood was already boiling. nice to have someone ensure it won't stop boiling in the foreseeable future.
my republican, veteran, stepson of a Second Marine, Okinawa JARHEAD blood was already boiling. nice to have someone ensure it won't stop boiling in the foreseeable future.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
He talks of the reservations as "prisoner of war camps". In present time, there is nothing stopping any Indian from moving away from the reservation and getting a job in the rest of America. Reservation life is no way to live.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
The rules of engagement "put in place by outgoing Gen. Stanley McChrystal, are classified but generally aim to limit civilian casualties by prohibiting troops from firing unless they're shot at -- or from launching bomb or artillery attacks when civilians are near the target".
So our troops can see Taliban insurgents moving through the mountains, but can't shoot them unless they fire first (which they won't -- they'll be sure to go to where they can fire from behind cover first). And if the Taliban make a point of sticking close to civilian villages, they're totally off-limits to our shooting at them (no matter if the "civilians" are supporters who feed and shelter the people shooting at our troops).
In the earlier years, the war in Afghanistan was primarily fought by Special Forces, who would dress as locals, sneak through the mountains, find Taliban units, and guide air support down to drop bombs on the Talibans heads. We were pretty much winning then.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
Over here is an account of a battle from last year. Our troops were pinned down for hours, radioing for artillery and air support. The requests were refused, due to the proximity of the village.
The "civilian" villagers who were being protected were seen by the troops shuttling ammo to the insurgents (who, since they do not wear uniforms, can be considered "civilians" as well).
The "civilian" villagers who were being protected were seen by the troops shuttling ammo to the insurgents (who, since they do not wear uniforms, can be considered "civilians" as well).
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
It's different when you have been over there. The Marines do defend themselves ahead of time, ie they don't wait for the round to be headed their way. As far as immigrants, please all of you who feel guilty about living in this country, leave. I do not feel guilty for slavery, for the idiocy of prior generations, nor for the idiocy of our current occupant in the White House. Life is life...it goes on. Men have been killing since Cain and Abel, not that that makes it alright. But there is nothing I can do about parents who do nothing to instill moral values in their kids, so we have murders every day for almost no reason. But I do not feel guilty about that.
I do however pray that our boys in harms way nail every target they aim at. As they were trained in School of Infantry and beyond.
I do however pray that our boys in harms way nail every target they aim at. As they were trained in School of Infantry and beyond.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
It's true that being in combat changes your viewpoint very significantly. Even if you aren't fighting, if you are in a combat environment, you very quickly come to realize that you would rather the enemy was dead than shooting at you.
On a policy level, I think we shouldn't be anywhere near Iraq, though I think we should wipe the Taliban and their helpers off the face of the earth in Afghanistan (and then go on to assassinate anyone connected to Al Quaeda, whether they are in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or any other country). On a tactical level, once you send the Army or any other US Forces to fight in a foreign country, I think the rules of engagement should be quite simple. If you feel your life is being threatened, or anyone in your units lives are being threatened, kill on sight whoever you might suspect.
Armies are for killing people. They are not police forces. Using them as police forces is extremely stupid.
I say pull the troops, and let Halliburton pay for Blackwater themselves if they want to operate over there.
On a policy level, I think we shouldn't be anywhere near Iraq, though I think we should wipe the Taliban and their helpers off the face of the earth in Afghanistan (and then go on to assassinate anyone connected to Al Quaeda, whether they are in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or any other country). On a tactical level, once you send the Army or any other US Forces to fight in a foreign country, I think the rules of engagement should be quite simple. If you feel your life is being threatened, or anyone in your units lives are being threatened, kill on sight whoever you might suspect.
Armies are for killing people. They are not police forces. Using them as police forces is extremely stupid.
I say pull the troops, and let Halliburton pay for Blackwater themselves if they want to operate over there.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
The problem with Iraq and Afghanistan is similar to the problem we had with the Viet Cong in the 1960's: we're trying to operate in an environment where we don't know who is against us, who might be for us, and who might be for us but is willing to stab us in the back because he's more afraid of what the insurgents will do to him if he doesn't help them.
This is an environment where Special Forces are trained to operate, and where conventional troops will have a bad time. What's really needed is to identify local forces who would have a motive for ruthlessly hunting down the Taliban, and then just give them some guns and let them do what's needed. What's NOT needed is a bunch of conventional troops pinned down in firebases all through Afghanistan.
Complicating the situation is that the Taliban are mostly coming from Pakistan, and appear to be getting support from factions of the Pakistani ISI (their version of CIA).
uniquemand
Unbeliever
The problem in Afghanistan is completely different from the problem in Iraq. Afghanistan attacked us. Iraq did not. Enough said.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
As neither I nor any of my ancestors were in the US prior to the early 1900's, I have no interest in any claims of victimization by any group in the US against the racial group I happen to be part of, at least regarding any victimization which occurred while I wasn't around.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
you just want the benefits of belonging to that group, right?
Mystic
Crusader
More "America" today:
http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html
http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
uncle sam
Silver Meritorious Patron
Aren't you the "clever one' ! Nozeno is going to be so "jealous" once he sees your post--it truly captured the essence of this the FCDC thread--a little feminine exposure-a little humor- a little cognitive processing--to make a GREAT contribution to the ongoings of execs !
nozeno
Gold Meritorious Patron
Wait till I see it?
I don't let any grass grow under my feet.
Pass the butter please.
AngeloV
Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't agree with you often but you nailed this one directly and squarely.
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