Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
Another very important point is that music is written in 24 different keys. So A is a pitch. If you don't like it, compose it in A flat.
FCDC circa 1970
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Harpsichord, eh? I like the sound but so far, I've only had one opportunity to play a real one. The electronic ones can be tuned to any pitch but their sound is almost always "meh".
Now tell me, can you tune one of your low brass instruments properly to A=396? Because I have my doubts about that.
Mystic
Crusader
I'm a blues in Bb kinda guy plus An Die Freude in D...I've never found a key I didn't care for except difficulty of play.
And then there are the woodpeckers. They sorta go with the tree's tuning. They really like to peck away on a hollow tree.
Udarnik
Gold Meritorious Patron
Harpsichord, eh? I like the sound but so far, I've only had one opportunity to play a real one. The electronic ones can be tuned to any pitch but their sound is almost always "meh".
Now tell me, can you tune one of your low brass instruments properly to A=396? Because I have my doubts about that.
A regular trombone can't be tuned there, but, with difficulty, a valve trombone or a euphonium can be. My daughter's piano teacher also plays harpsichord professionally, and she has played some Bach on it. Took her a while to get used to it, as she has perfect pitch. She played a keyboard for a school function that drive her nuts because it was tuned to B flat to match the trumpets she was accompanying.
My son's cello teacher is my daughter's piano teacher's wife, and she plays viola da gamba with the harpsichord, so I've heard quite a but of A = 396 music in the last 4 years.
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
Wait a minute. A=396 is not A. I don't have a frequency counter, but I suppose it is G. Maybe even #F. What is this discussion getting at anyway? I think you all are just being contrary.
Yes Udarnik, true baroque nuts insist on being contrary. Part of that would be that very very old instruments should not be put under the pressure of A=440
Yes Udarnik, true baroque nuts insist on being contrary. Part of that would be that very very old instruments should not be put under the pressure of A=440
Udarnik
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, I'm being deliberately contrary, because the sound frequency spectrum is continuous and the assignment of any given frequency to any given pitch is quite arbitrary.
The instruments I've heard are not old, but the gamba is strung with gut, so A = 396 makes more sense there, too. There are some quite good harpsichord makers and luthiers in the New England area that turn out good copies of period instruments.
Mystic
Crusader
Oh but nay nay narr narr nyet nyet, isn't arbitrary. Jolly ol' Pythagoras gave us the actuality/reality of the harmonics some 2,600 years ago. Ye just need to cancel all the attempted alterations, aberrations, distortions and genuine, authentic bullshit which has since intervened.
There is a standard practice of the satanic rulers who believe they own Earth (call 'em Rothschild Zionists, I prefer "satanic" as it has more grinable clout) to throw harmonics/rhythms/etc. off just a bit. Excellent examples are found all over their so-called "calendar". And one of their best is their "Daylight Saving Time". There is actual intended purpose behind these distortions, to throw folks OUT OF SYNC WITH THE UNIVERSE/REALITY/ACTUALITY/etc.
There is a standard practice of the satanic rulers who believe they own Earth (call 'em Rothschild Zionists, I prefer "satanic" as it has more grinable clout) to throw harmonics/rhythms/etc. off just a bit. Excellent examples are found all over their so-called "calendar". And one of their best is their "Daylight Saving Time". There is actual intended purpose behind these distortions, to throw folks OUT OF SYNC WITH THE UNIVERSE/REALITY/ACTUALITY/etc.
While I was a guitarist, I hated playing in Bb - passionately. But when I became a bassist in a Jazz band, I learned to love it.
I absolutely agree.
Well, there's some sort of music in anything that makes a sound, but for some reason I still prefer real instruments.
Perhaps you could do it by inserting an adapter on each end of the 180° bow which I don't know the name of.
Tuning down an instrument down that much equals rape,IMHO. Why not play it in Bb?
"Wind"-instruments love the -b keys, so if one wants to play with them, it'd be wise to learn the songs in Bb, Ab, Eb. I had do find that out the hard way, when I joined the Jazz band in 1989 or so.
If they're playing really old instruments, A=396 might indeed be a good idea. I had to find that out the hard way too: The piano which was built before the cast-iron-frame era, broke down with a vary unpleasant sound. I could have glued it back together, but decided to make firewood out of it.
A is whatever the agreed-upon frequency is. There are several legends how the current agreement (A=440) came to pass, but I remember only snippets of one: The original agreement was A=435 Hz but when the first record players and radio stations came up,they complained and asked for A=440 Hz, because that was easier dividable. I don't see any logics in that argument, but maybe I'm missing something in the tube-powered technology of the early days.
EDIT:
Oh, I remember: The dividability issue hat to do with the radio's modulation frequencies. Yaknow, AM/FM, that kind of stuff.
/EDIT
True.
Right. Kinda. My instruments are always in tune with themselves, I always make sure of that before I begin to play. When I use more than one instrument in a session, I also make sure that they're in tune with each other. I don't really care that much about what their actual frequency of A is. But, when I'm playing with others, I tune to the instrument that is the hardest to tune, which usually is the piano, which is usually tuned to A=440 Hz.
From my experiences, guts can be tuned to A=440 just as easily as steels or nylons. The problem is the construction of the instrument, which may not be able to withstand the pull of steels.
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Do you know how much time/money it costs to re-string and re-tune one piano? Multiply that by the number of all the pianos "on this planet" to find out why I don't think that that'd happen anytime soon.
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Mystic
Crusader
That might be great for the world "economy" (whatever that is any longer). Ever tuned a piano? Looks to be like it would be a simple tuning job. Just loosen the wires a bit.
Yes, I've tuned a few pianos. You might get away with "loosening the wires a bit" in the mid range, but the high as well as the low range might need new strings, else they'd become less defined and unprecise in intonation.
But then, because a mixture of old and new strings would sound unbalanced, so you'd need to re-string the whole thing. Estimated costs for stringing and tuning: From 1.5 Grand on upwards. You could buy a brand new Korean or Chinese made piano for less than that.
Udarnik
Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm a big fan of the Ritmullers. German designed and built actions, the rest assembled and built in China. Owned by the Pearl River brand, but several cuts above Pearl River in quality. Better sound than an equivalent Yamaha IMO. At less than half the price. My daughter has a 7 ft grand of that make.g
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
This is the very point I was trying to make way back. The standard is just that because of things like this. As a mitigating factor for those who think 440 is hard on old instruments, new string tech has produced strings with much less force upon the bridge. My G and C strings for instance used to be quite thick and heavy. What I use today however is much thinner and does not put much pressure upon the belly of the instrument.
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
Geez I wish this convo had happened on Winnie's Place, because that is why I started the thread. 
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
Piano tuning takes a lot of training, and not all tuners are equal. Some are masters, others just workmen.
Mystic
Crusader
I purchased an antique upright piano back in the 80's, tiger oak it was, gorgeous hunk of piano. I had to put in some missing wires and tune it up, even purchased a tuning wrench. I found it quite an enjoyable activity.
Then I started practicing some Luddie van. Sheesh, I had no idea how musically dumb I was or wasn't so I just went ahead and did it, no teacher except "me 'n God". Eventually I got to where I was improvising on Fur Elise.
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
While I personally find Fur Elise charming, and beautiful in its own way, one must realize that it is among the simplest of piano pieces, regardless that Beethoven wrote it. As is also, for instance, Bach's Minuet from Notebook for Anna Magdelena Bach. That a person can play either does not a pianist make. Just a peeve of mine. Masters were quite capable of composing simple pieces in addition to the monumental stuff they did.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
what?
you prefer "satanic" over "thetanic"?
you need to get with the program and develop a lisp...
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