FCDC circa 1970
- Thread starter nozeno
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uncle sam
Silver Meritorious Patron
Winston--so right you are!
You are absolutely "correct"--I could only sell "this stuff" when - I had not experienced it! After - I did the bridge and only then did I realize that I could not introduce anyone else to the false hope and promise of this "church". It was easy to sell when you had hope--impossible to sell when you had "tasted" the product-at least for -myself. Anyone else have this happen to them?
You are absolutely "correct"--I could only sell "this stuff" when - I had not experienced it! After - I did the bridge and only then did I realize that I could not introduce anyone else to the false hope and promise of this "church". It was easy to sell when you had hope--impossible to sell when you had "tasted" the product-at least for -myself. Anyone else have this happen to them?
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
I sure wish the hell you had told me what you realized when you got back from LA!
The Anabaptist Jacques
uncle sam
Silver Meritorious Patron
Sorry about that....
Ya got me laughing [inappropriate-for sure]. Imagine that it was morning muster [which I never ever attended] and the CO announces that Unlce Sam is just back from LA were he went Clear-OT and Class 6 and and he [me] would like to address his fellow staff.
"Dear Fellow Theatans [me speaking]-it is with great sadness that after spending the last year and a half doing the full bridge that it is my duty to tell you-this shit simply does not work-OT 3 is a laughing matter-the whole thing is a big con and you are nothing more than dupes-so - after I shut the fuck up -Run For The Hills".
I sure wish the hell you had told me what you realized when you got back from LA!
The Anabaptist Jacques
Ya got me laughing [inappropriate-for sure]. Imagine that it was morning muster [which I never ever attended] and the CO announces that Unlce Sam is just back from LA were he went Clear-OT and Class 6 and and he [me] would like to address his fellow staff.
"Dear Fellow Theatans [me speaking]-it is with great sadness that after spending the last year and a half doing the full bridge that it is my duty to tell you-this shit simply does not work-OT 3 is a laughing matter-the whole thing is a big con and you are nothing more than dupes-so - after I shut the fuck up -Run For The Hills".
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
Sometimes a secret is what someone knows and is afraid to say.
And then there are secrets that everybody knows and everyone is afraid to say.
You probably would have only persuaded a few of us though.
The Anabaptist Jacques
nozeno
Gold Meritorious Patron
Sometimes a secret is what someone knows and is afraid to say.
And then there are secrets that everybody knows and everyone is afraid to say.
You probably would have only persuaded a few of us though.
The Anabaptist Jacques
He didn't need to persuade me since I left before he came back.
I guess some of us are innately more intelligent than others.
uncle sam
Silver Meritorious Patron
Funny-
Ya got me laughing on this one---it's like comparing monkeys in zoo and which one is the "cute" one. I never ever met a real smart scientologist-how could they be?????
My truth is-it's just so sad.
Ya got me laughing on this one---it's like comparing monkeys in zoo and which one is the "cute" one. I never ever met a real smart scientologist-how could they be?????
My truth is-it's just so sad.
sparrow
Patron with Honors
"Scientology is evil" - Casper would be proud.
Actually Scientology is not evil, it's people's gullibility and inability that's "evil". If there is such a thing as evil.
No, actually I meant it exactly as I said it. Scientology is *designed* to be a trap. You could quibble and say that it's Ron who was 'evil', but, it's enough to say that Scientology is a deliberate trap *set* to catch the unwary.
The major guilt on the trapees is naivete.
Zinj
nozeno
Gold Meritorious Patron
sparrow
Patron with Honors
Hey Z. Not trying to be argumentative here but I don't agree with you.
You don't know what Hubbard had in mind. I assume you can't read minds and I assume that any mind is different from day to day.
To say that Scientology was a deliberate trap is a bit pretentious. Just sayin'.
You don't have to agree with me.
I've evaluated Scientology and reached my conclusions. Your mileage obviously *does* vary. But, I reached my conclusions based not only on the mechanism, but the products and the evolution of the 'science' to *achieve* those products.
Scientology delivers what it was *intended* to deliver. Slavery.
Ron had quite a while to 'get it right'
Zinj
sparrow
Patron with Honors
You don't have to agree with me.
I've evaluated Scientology and reached my conclusions. Your mileage obviously *does* vary. But, I reached my conclusions based not only on the mechanism, but the products and the evolution of the 'science' to *achieve* those products.
Scientology delivers what it was *intended* to deliver. Slavery.
Ron had quite a while to 'get it right'
Zinj
Well if slavery is what he had in mind it's ironic that he'd write things like "Personal Integrity" and "What is Greatness".
It's ironic that he would provide the common sense tools to avoid the sorts of traps that are also part and parcel.
My take is that I don't know what he had in mind nor will I ever know.
I just find it curious when others have arrived at such solid conclusions without a real basis for them.
Anyway, glad we're both out and doing well!
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
These are all just links on the slave's chains. I don't think he would write "I want you for my slave" and expect that to work.
And I do have a real basis for my conclusions, which happen to be the same as Zinj's, and I arrived at them on my own long before I ever heard of Zinj.
The Anabaptist Jacques
Mystic
Crusader
Ja, me too
Ja ja, me too. Scientology was designed to be a trap. Of course Hubbard laced it with some good-sounding schidt, full of sound a fury and signifying something or another. And the good-sounding schidt is part of the hooker of the trap. This is how the blackhole-mind works, constantly scheming, full of continuous machination. Where in the world do you think this Hubbard thing got his "definition" of "evil"? Hubbard definition: Evil is the overt or covert but always continuous and complex determination to harm or destroy.
He was looking directly at HIMSELF and his connections in the darkmind world. In that world STATUS is God where "big beings" suck as much energy from "little beings" as they can get away with. This is "power" at those lower darkness levels. Call it "Vampirism". The beings at those levels bring their vampirism right in with them when they incarnate. Corporations, governments, religions, etc. will suck you dry until you are of no value to them and then toss you out on your ear. Sound familiar?
The first time I consciously ran across this in this incarnation after I grew up a bit was reading good ol' Doc Smith's Lensman Series. He had these "Overlords of Delgon" who would SUCK THE SOULS of other beings. Man o man, when I first read that it sort of shook me to the bones. Just reading the words in a "science fiction" book.
Yes, whether consciously or dis-consciously, the entrapment is built right into Scientology. The admin./management/policy schidt is rather obvious vampirism, the technology, the auditing procedures, are much more subtle as it hits right into one of the mind's natural functions, cognition/realization.
Congratulations Mr. L. Ron Hubbard, you black-hearted POS, you really fucked a lot of people up. And at your levels of blackness you gloat...which is about the highest you can approach real laughter.
Ja ja, me too. Scientology was designed to be a trap. Of course Hubbard laced it with some good-sounding schidt, full of sound a fury and signifying something or another. And the good-sounding schidt is part of the hooker of the trap. This is how the blackhole-mind works, constantly scheming, full of continuous machination. Where in the world do you think this Hubbard thing got his "definition" of "evil"? Hubbard definition: Evil is the overt or covert but always continuous and complex determination to harm or destroy.
He was looking directly at HIMSELF and his connections in the darkmind world. In that world STATUS is God where "big beings" suck as much energy from "little beings" as they can get away with. This is "power" at those lower darkness levels. Call it "Vampirism". The beings at those levels bring their vampirism right in with them when they incarnate. Corporations, governments, religions, etc. will suck you dry until you are of no value to them and then toss you out on your ear. Sound familiar?
The first time I consciously ran across this in this incarnation after I grew up a bit was reading good ol' Doc Smith's Lensman Series. He had these "Overlords of Delgon" who would SUCK THE SOULS of other beings. Man o man, when I first read that it sort of shook me to the bones. Just reading the words in a "science fiction" book.
Yes, whether consciously or dis-consciously, the entrapment is built right into Scientology. The admin./management/policy schidt is rather obvious vampirism, the technology, the auditing procedures, are much more subtle as it hits right into one of the mind's natural functions, cognition/realization.
Congratulations Mr. L. Ron Hubbard, you black-hearted POS, you really fucked a lot of people up. And at your levels of blackness you gloat...which is about the highest you can approach real laughter.
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
This is Helmuth, speaking for Boskone....
I agree with the last poster!
Wasn't the Lensmen Series great!
The Anabaptist Jacques
I agree with the last poster!
Wasn't the Lensmen Series great!
The Anabaptist Jacques
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
trap from the get go
Starting from the Oxford Personality tset the goal is to bring red meat money into the org. I vividly remember staff (myself included) salivating at the potential bucks that a "public" would bring in. Scn is a deliberate trap because there are too many like stories among exes confirming it. Hubbard was first and foremost intent on making money. He was the most ruthless individual in my mind because his construct was calculated to promise the world "in the next level," or when you reach "clear," or the ultimate freedom of OTIII (I thought clear was supposed to be the answer to our misery. Woops that didn't bring in enough dough, you have to give us the REST of your fortune.)
The very first step, that personality test, is rigged so that no person may be so perfect as to not need Scientology. It is a trap and everyone in it should be in prison.
Starting from the Oxford Personality tset the goal is to bring red meat money into the org. I vividly remember staff (myself included) salivating at the potential bucks that a "public" would bring in. Scn is a deliberate trap because there are too many like stories among exes confirming it. Hubbard was first and foremost intent on making money. He was the most ruthless individual in my mind because his construct was calculated to promise the world "in the next level," or when you reach "clear," or the ultimate freedom of OTIII (I thought clear was supposed to be the answer to our misery. Woops that didn't bring in enough dough, you have to give us the REST of your fortune.)
The very first step, that personality test, is rigged so that no person may be so perfect as to not need Scientology. It is a trap and everyone in it should be in prison.
sparrow
Patron with Honors
Do you know how queer that sounds? "all just links on the slave's chains" Maybe try communicating with precision instead of metaphor.
There are plenty of things in Scientology that are self-evident and that demonstratively "work". And there's plenty of rubbish.
So for someone to summarily dismiss it all as an intentional trap seems silly to me. Again, unless you can read minds, I'd say you cannot know for sure what Hubbard had in mind.
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
I understand what you are saying, Sparrow, that you can not determine someone else's intentions. But I disagree in the case of LRH.
Patterns of behavior are evidence of intention. Especially patterns of behavior over decades.
And because "To FREE PEOPLE" and "TO ENSLAVE PEOPLE" are so obviously different in their manifested behaviors, I think you can step back, look at decades long patterns of LRH's behaviors and AT LEAST conclude that his intention was not to FREE PEOPLE.
If it were then there would be no long-standing policies that limited free speech, that threatened expulsion for who you associated with, that coerced people to do things against their own self-interests.
In fact, if LRH's intention was really to free people, what you are doing on the streets of DC would not be considered suppressive by Scientology - the subject he formed. You would simply be expressing your freedom to think as you wish.
Scientology would be a very very different thing if LRH's intention was really to free people.
So - can we agree that with LRH's long patterns of decades long behavior, that we can use that as a basis to discern that his intention was not to free people?
Patterns of behavior are evidence of intention. Especially patterns of behavior over decades.
And because "To FREE PEOPLE" and "TO ENSLAVE PEOPLE" are so obviously different in their manifested behaviors, I think you can step back, look at decades long patterns of LRH's behaviors and AT LEAST conclude that his intention was not to FREE PEOPLE.
If it were then there would be no long-standing policies that limited free speech, that threatened expulsion for who you associated with, that coerced people to do things against their own self-interests.
In fact, if LRH's intention was really to free people, what you are doing on the streets of DC would not be considered suppressive by Scientology - the subject he formed. You would simply be expressing your freedom to think as you wish.
Scientology would be a very very different thing if LRH's intention was really to free people.
So - can we agree that with LRH's long patterns of decades long behavior, that we can use that as a basis to discern that his intention was not to free people?
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