Pixie
Crusader
I didn't, you have obviously misread my post. The freezone is NOT the same as Idenics. Ok?
Fins Me An Auditor
- Thread starter peacefulprince_au
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I didn't, you have obviously misread my post. The freezone is NOT the same as Idenics. Ok?
uniquemand
Unbeliever
How is it different? (Not to get too off-track, but my little head just doesn't see a difference: didn't Vinaire just say that the best of Book I was available in Idenics?)
Wisened One
Crusader
Yep, Goddess Hugs, Pix, HG, all us goddesses here! 
Pixie
Crusader
Well then you'll have to ask him then seeing that he brought it up. I am kind of done communicating with you at this point.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Actually, I will! Thanks. BTW, I would be against advertisements of the FZ services, here, as well. I don't have a problem with people discussing the FreeZone, or Scientology, or even Idenics (if it's different). If a person ASKS what something is, and a FreeZoner answers where to find that, that's not an advertisement. If they make a post that says "Hi, my name is Jim, and I offer Dianetics auditing, come on down", that's a bit different. In this case, some dude (who I thought from the way he was asking was likely a troll) was asking about Dianetics auditing, so I told him where to go to get it, or how to arrange it. Then Vinaire piped up to say that Idenics was the best of Dianetics, and could be had via phone and webcam. Struck me as an advertisement, so I said so. Sorry you didn't like that.
HappyGirl
Gold Meritorious Patron
UM - What Pixie meant was you seemed to be ragging on the fact that someone suggested Idenics, and she was pointing out that people suggest all sorts of things on this board, such as the Freezone, books, etc. So why were you picking on Idenics? That's my take on it. It was someone else that posted something about there being a relationship between Dn and Idenics. There are lots of places on this board that talk about Dn/Idenics, if you really want to know.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Yeah, seen those threads. They don't answer the question.
Pixie
Crusader
Er... are you inside my head now HG? How could you know what I 'meant' to say? :confused2: Amazingly accurate however and I appreciate your empathy and understanding here. You truly are a Goddess.
Once bitten
Patron Meritorious
The reason you are told to read books is because you have to learn that if you don't like the auditing, or you don't make gains then you are an SP. No one wants to be an SP so people say they are making gains and even attest to those gains. Initially, Bk1 auditing does give you gains and wins as does other things that help you address your insecurities, problems etc etc as I said before. But nothing else tells you that unless you make gains you are basically a bad person. It's like meditation. It doesn't work for everyone but those people arent told that they are bad people. That is the diff with scn. They HAVE to educate you to MAKE you believe that unless you make gains on auditing you have huge big problems and have done some terrible terrible crimes in your life or lives.
HappyGirl
Gold Meritorious Patron
Probably because you've been inside my head so many times.Er... are you inside my head now HG? How could you know what I 'meant' to say? :confused2: Amazingly accurate however and I appreciate your empathy and understanding here. You truly are a Goddess.
Pixie
Crusader
The reason you are told to read books is because you have to learn that if you don't like the auditing, or you don't make gains then you are an SP. No one wants to be an SP so people say they are making gains and even attest to those gains. Initially, Bk1 auditing does give you gains and wins as does other things that help you address your insecurities, problems etc etc as I said before. But nothing else tells you that unless you make gains you are basically a bad person. It's like meditation. It doesn't work for everyone but those people arent told that they are bad people. That is the diff with scn. They HAVE to educate you to MAKE you believe that unless you make gains on auditing you have huge big problems and have done some terrible terrible crimes in your life or lives.
VERY well said!
Pixie
Crusader
HappyGirl
Gold Meritorious Patron
OMG. That's perfect.
Terril park
Sponsor
On ESMB, those doing " standard tech" are classed as " Freezone". Those doing offshoots of scientology/dianetics are classified as " Independants."
Most other places they are somewhat lumped in together as " The Freezone."
This includes Idenics, Knowledgism, Avatar, Dianesis, Ron's Orgs, The Pilot's work and so on.
Idenics was founded by John Galusha, and currently has Mike Goldstein as
the major proponent. John was a research auditor with Hubbard from 1954, and apparently created the best, or best equal Dianetics course [ Phil Spickler was the other] ever. I didn't know Idenics still used Book 1 tech.
If so, Mike, have you got John's original book 1 course? Many would appreciate it.
PS. Smitty will answer here and make incredibly nit picking comments.
If you don't understand them don't worry. I don't.
Carnaubawax
Patron Meritorious
I read Goldstein's "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism", and thought it was brilliant.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Mike isn't just the most major proponent, he's the biggest beneficiary. He owns the marks, the procedure, and the right to say who does and doesn't practice Idenics. This is all well and good, but he's not just a proponent: he's the owner.
Mike Goldstein
Patron with Honors
Yes, as the co-founder of this methodology, I am a proponent of Idenics. There are many proponents of Idenics. Several are regular posters on ESMB.
John Galusha was LRH's right-hand technical person and researcher from 1952 in Witchita throughout the 1950s; including Phoenix and Washington D.C.
When John and I started the Book One movement in 1980, John put together a correspondence course that was the only correspondence/extension course that had ever been designed to make fully competent Book One auditors, and actually produced this result. If you go to exscn.net by clicking above you can get all the data on this in a series that is posted there under the heading of "management" under "the church" heading called The New Regime Takeover series.
We do not use Book One tech in Idenics. We were great proponets of Book One (as you'll see from reading the above mentioned series) but with the advent of Idenics, what would take maybe 500 hours of Book One auditing to resolve, with Idenics, we were getting that outcome in maybe 5 hours. So as well as Book One could work in competent hands, we considered it obsolete when Idenics came along. For information on how Idenics differs from Dianetics and Scn, please refer to the second series called Life After the CoS that is also posted on the ESMB site under "independent field."
We have not delivered the Book One extension course for almost 25 years. I have been asked by people still delivering Dianetics and Scn if I still have that course. I'm sorry, but I have not been able to locate that information. Apparently the boxes containing that material were lost many years ago in a move to our new location.
Mike Goldstein
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Mike Goldstein
Patron with Honors
I'm not familiar with this. It may be another "Goldstein," but I did not write it.
Mike Goldstein
Smitty
Silver Meritorious Patron
reply to Terril Park
Thank you for the invitation and assertion that you do not understand my comments. I guess scientology has helped you with that.
Thank you for the invitation and assertion that you do not understand my comments. I guess scientology has helped you with that.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Mike, I'm looking for the "second series" you discussed, above. Having trouble locating it. What was it called? Did YOU post it, or someone else?
Nevermind, found it Differences between Idenics and Dianetics according to Mike's post, above
Nevermind, found it Differences between Idenics and Dianetics according to Mike's post, above
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