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Zinjifar said:
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=203263&postcount=1

Zinj
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Thank-You for the link. I actually had read that previously, just had forgotten the FBI story. You're right in that he never expressed any "fear" with regards to talking to the FBI. Also he mentioned that he got 2 feet of transcripts of his conversations when they were monitering him......I bet that that would make for some interesting reading material. :D
 
There seems to be a lot of confusion (some of it deliberate) and mixing of apples and oranges here and on other threads discussing Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder etc.

On the one hand, there seem to be people whose major concern is Marty (and Mike) themselves. People worried about apologies (or not); people concerned about his 'process' of recovering from Scientology (which Marty sees no need for) or even his 'karma' :)

Speaking only for myself, *my* concern isn't about Marty apologizing, making ammends or a healthy 'recovery'; it's about hisorical revisionism, attempted rehabilitation of the Scientology 'name' and reputation and even a rehabilitation (with reform or not) of the Scientology Organization.

My concern is *stopping*, opposing and as soon as possible prosecuting and dismantling the Scientology Organization, revealing its crimes (and, yes, an organization can commit crimes) making sure that it doesn't happen again.

For those of you who don't believe that Scientology as an organization has and continues to commit crimes, you can be excused now. That includes those of you who may think that, while there were crimes, we now know all about them and, there aint no more.

Marty (and Mike) are only of interest to me because they were integral actors in the crimes of Scientology. They are intimately familiar with them because they both followed and originated orders to commit those crimes. By speaking truthfully, they could take the single greatest step towards stopping the ongoing horror of Scientology.

But, instead of speaking truthfully, they are *deliberately* advancing the fiction that there *are* no crimes to report, and, that is not only a lie, but, it's a lie they know they're spreading and that means, whatever else they're doing, they're *continuing* to support the criminality of Scientology. (and their own)

This isn't about the duobtlessly true fact that *other* people did abhorent things while in the Cult. Or about the well known 'process' of recovery from the Scientology MindFuck.

And, it's not about willingness to accept Marty and Mike's 'acceptable truth' because it's seen as 'useful'.

Zinj
 
Zinjifar said:
There seems to be a lot of confusion (some of it deliberate) and mixing of apples and oranges here and on other threads discussing Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder etc.

On the one hand, there seem to be people whose major concern is Marty (and Mike) themselves. People worried about apologies (or not); people concerned about his 'process' of recovering from Scientology (which Marty sees no need for) or even his 'karma' :)

Speaking only for myself, *my* concern isn't about Marty apologizing, making ammends or a healthy 'recovery'; it's about hisorical revisionism, attempted rehabilitation of the Scientology 'name' and reputation and even a rehabilitation (with reform or not) of the Scientology Organization.

My concern is *stopping*, opposing and as soon as possible prosecuting and dismantling the Scientology Organization, revealing its crimes (and, yes, an organization can commit crimes) making sure that it doesn't happen again.

For those of you who don't believe that Scientology as an organization has and continues to commit crimes, you can be excused now. That includes those of you who may think that, while there were crimes, we now know all about them and, there aint no more.

Marty (and Mike) are only of interest to me because they were integral actors in the crimes of Scientology. They are intimately familiar with them because they both followed and originated orders to commit those crimes. By speaking truthfully, they could take the single greatest step towards stopping the ongoing horror of Scientology.

But, instead of speaking truthfully, they are *deliberately* advancing the fiction that there *are* no crimes to report, and, that is not only a lie, but, it's a lie they know they're spreading and that means, whatever else they're doing, they're *continuing* to support the criminality of Scientology. (and their own)

This isn't about the duobtlessly true fact that *other* people did abhorent things while in the Cult. Or about the well known 'process' of recovery from the Scientology MindFuck.

And, it's not about willingness to accept Marty and Mike's 'acceptable truth' because it's seen as 'useful'.

Zinj
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Great post Zinj, and that is why Marty will only get so far. Instead of fixing what's wrong with Scientology (the current church) we'll have two large groups of Scientology users and none of the abuses will change because of that.
 
I'm actually finding Marty's naiveté and self importance becoming quite comical. Watching him "moving on up a little higher" to become Bill Robertson 2.0 is becoming rather entertaining in a pathetic kind of way.

Delusions.jpg
 
Marty was once thought of as one of the scientology techies so highly trained that other scientologists thought highly of him. Maybe even in awe of him. It is a little hard for people like him to be thought of as just another duped individual. He likes being in that self-manufactured lofty position. It's comfy for him.
 
People in the church are encouraged to give "altitude" to and to revere and not question church management. To some extent, they are encouraged to do that re all staff, but particularly church management. Doesn't matter WHO they are, or what they're saying. That's one of the things that makes it cultic.
 
Mick Wenlock said:
This is directed to those who have posted about how they think Rathbun is going to make some sort of difference to Scientology.

Dream on.
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I'm not holding my breath, not because I think he is not doing a good job in fighting DM, but because looking at the past 25 years there were other great people putting great efforts to change Co$ and create a free Independent Field, and failed.

I was reading today an issue of Reconnection. I was not there at the time but by reading that issue I could feel the excitement of many people who were trying, maybe naively, to free scientology. The same excitement that people who follow Marty are turning on.

AAC had delivery centers all around the world at the time, and today is gone, smashed under Co$ suppression and for other reasons. The new rising Independent Field can benefit of easier comm-lines now with internet, and can learn from the past errors, so the situation is not the same, and I wish them good luck.
 
MostlyLurker said:
I'm not holding my breath, not because I think he is not doing a good job in fighting DM, but because looking at the past 25 years there were other great people putting great efforts to change Co$ and create a free Independent Field, and failed.

I was reading today an issue of Reconnection. I was not there at the time but by reading that issue I could feel the excitement of many people who were trying, maybe naively, to free scientology. The same excitement that people who follow Marty are turning on.

AAC had delivery centers all around the world at the time, and today is gone, smashed under Co$ suppression and for other reasons. The new rising Independent Field can benefit of easier comm-lines now with internet, and can learn from the past errors, so the situation is not the same, and I wish them good luck.
Click to expand...

The freezone aka Independent Field or whatever else it's called these days, is little more than a retirement home for people holding on to a vision of Hubbard's cult which only existed in their minds. It's not like Hubbard's dated 1950s hypnosis con game is attracting any new blood, and if it is, it's only attracting them to be entertained by it in a freak show kind of way by it. An open Scientology is a non-existent Scientology. Marty is just looking to land a few suckers with fat wallets to jack off for a living. He tried functioning in the real world after he left the cult and it became painfully obvious he has no skills of value except for playing cult with Hubbard's cheesy cult tech.
 
uniquemand said:
Not true, Mick. He wasn't cringing in the corner. He was doing the hitting and kicking.
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This will be blount but to the point! I posted this elsewhere.



Marty makes me sick. Claims to have all this information about people suffering, being locked up against their will, ect... Yet he sits on this. I think because he is worried it will bring down Scientology and then he can't take over the kingdom and all its treasures.

Marty, release all information, not just the tibits that you think will scare some Scientologists in trying to make a change in management.

Scientology is committed crimes everyday and so many allow it to con't.

Just boils my blood!
 
Zinjifar said:
There seems to be a lot of confusion (some of it deliberate) and mixing of apples and oranges here and on other threads discussing Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder etc.On the one hand, there seem to be people whose major concern is Marty (and Mike) themselves. People worried about apologies (or not); people concerned about his 'process' of recovering from Scientology (which Marty sees no need for) or even his 'karma' :)Speaking only for myself, *my* concern isn't about Marty apologizing, making ammends or a healthy 'recovery'; it's about hisorical revisionism, attempted rehabilitation of the Scientology 'name' and reputation and even a rehabilitation (with reform or not) of the Scientology Organization.
My concern is *stopping*, opposing and as soon as possible prosecuting and dismantling the Scientology Organization, revealing its crimes (and, yes, an organization can commit crimes) making sure that it doesn't happen again.
For those of you who don't believe that Scientology as an organization has and continues to commit crimes, you can be excused now. That includes those of you who may think that, while there were crimes, we now know all about them and, there aint no more.Marty (and Mike) are only of interest to me because they were integral actors in the crimes of Scientology. They are intimately familiar with them because they both followed and originated orders to commit those crimes. By speaking truthfully, they could take the single greatest step towards stopping the ongoing horror of Scientology. But, instead of speaking truthfully, they are *deliberately* advancing the fiction that there *are* no crimes to report, and, that is not only a lie, but, it's a lie they know they're spreading and that means, whatever else they're doing, they're *continuing* to support the criminality of Scientology. (and their own)This isn't about the duobtlessly true fact that *other* people did abhorent things while in the Cult. Or about the well known 'process' of recovery from the Scientology MindFuck.And, it's not about willingness to accept Marty and Mike's 'acceptable truth' because it's seen as 'useful'.
Zinj
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Z-Man, much applause on that defining post!

I would, however, not yet eliminate the possibility (however remote) that in this high-stakes poker game where their butts personally are on the line, Mike&Marty are intentionally not showing all their ace cards yet.

One thing I have learned from Scn (by reason of my participation and later exit) is that I am a human and sometimes susceptible to real funky errors in judgment and faulty predictions that result in surprise endings.

So, until the M&M show plays out, it might happen one day that we look back and realize that 2009 was only the first "round" of a boxing match; and a "feeling out" round at that.

What if it gets hot and nasty later with big litigation guns blazing or even criminal prosecutions?

We might see M&M using their intimate knowledge of the criminal enterprises of religious mafia leader Don Miscavige (and Don Hubbard for that matter) to bargain with.

Perhaps, they will then negotiate their own immunity or settlement by saluting the flag of justice and turning into full-scale whistleblowers.

Not saying it is gonna happen that way, but some very entertaining fictional books and movies sometimes throw that kind of twist into the third act. And so far, most everything about Scn is just that--entertaining fiction.
 
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I have no doubt that Scientology will continue into the future, both in some corporate form, and in an "independent field" form. I think it's a shame, because it leads people down a garden path towards "OT", which is a false goal, IMO, and towards "Clear", which is not what Hubbard claimed it was. Scientology's contribution to psychology is significant, but retaining it as a "religion" is silly.
 
ladybug2 said:
This will be blount but to the point! I posted this elsewhere.



Marty makes me sick. Claims to have all this information about people suffering, being locked up against their will, ect... Yet he sits on this. I think because he is worried it will bring down Scientology and then he can't take over the kingdom and all its treasures.

Marty, release all information, not just the tibits that you think will scare some Scientologists in trying to make a change in management.

Scientology is committed crimes everyday and so many allow it to con't.

Just boils my blood!
Click to expand...

Marty can not talk about the abuses, because he was directly involved in orchestrating the abuses. The man was Miscavige's personal boot licker his entire adult life.

The only people who are taking Marty seriously are the most gullible of freezoners. Marty is telling them exactly what they want to hear. Miscavige is solely responsible for all the abuses Hubbard's cult has perpetrated throughout it's existence, even the ones he which occurred before Miscavige was even born.

Marty's only useful purpose is to be a thorn in the side of Miscavige, don't expect much more than that from him ... unless you are interested in funding his search for L. Ron Hubbard's and Bill Robertson's space ships in the freeezone.
 
Voltaire's Child said:
It's not a question of being a Rathbun believer, IMNSFHO. It's a matter of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, sometimes, and keeping an open mind.

There are plenty of Rathbun "believers" who daily write scathing commentary about them. They're "believers", too. Let there be no mistake about THAT.
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If you keep your mind too open your brain will fall out.
 
Alanzo said:
Marty Rathbun seems to me to be doing everything he can - from his own position, and in his own way.

No one is making him The King of the Critic Movement.

He's just one guy.

It's all of us who are going to make a difference.

There's a goal we have.

See the goal?

Letting him be, and using what he is producing, is much more important than anything else.

Be pragmatic.

So STFU about Marty in the past and let's get something done now.

We'll sort the rest out later.
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Yes he may be useful in getting rid of Dm - possibly. Yes be pragmatic, But understand that "..sort the rest out later" may mean dealing with the COS as it is now, with MR pulling the strings - using all of his beloved leaders policies. And he may do it in a more secretive way than it is done currently. Be careful about what you want. You may get it. In this case that means keeping eyes open. Our dear little pitbull may bite the hands that feed it.
It has already shown that it only approves scientologists - not exes.
 
OMG, I just read this whole thread.

Instead of doing something I'm actually interested in, I read this commentary about Marty Rathbun, as if what everyone thinks about what he's doing has any bearing on my own life and my own happiness. As if it mattered.

I'm not criticizing any of you. This is a self-reflection. I'm looking forward to moving on from this. Sadly, it still interests me.

I sincerely wish godspeed to whoever is helping to end the abuses. I will do my part. I hope we can move on to a happier chapter in each of our lives, doing things we love to do.

:wave:
mac
 
Megalomaniac said:
OMG, I just read this whole thread.

Instead of doing something I'm actually interested in, I read this commentary about Marty Rathbun, as if what everyone thinks about what he's doing has any bearing on my own life and my own happiness. As if it mattered.

I'm not criticizing any of you. This is a self-reflection. I'm looking forward to moving on from this. Sadly, it still interests me.

I sincerely wish godspeed to whoever is helping to end the abuses. I will do my part. I hope we can move on to a happier chapter in each of our lives, doing things we love to do.

:wave:
mac
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If you are expecting anything more from Scientology than a train wreck to be entertained by ... then you really should be doing something else.

Good Luck
 
HelluvaHoax! said:
"...........it might happen one day that we look back and realize that 2009 was only the first "round" of a boxing match; and a "feeling out" round at that.

What if it gets hot and nasty later with big litigation guns blazing or even criminal prosecutions?

We might see M&M using their intimate knowledge of the criminal enterprises of religious mafia leader Don Miscavige (and Don Hubbard for that matter) to bargain with.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping that this is the way it goes down, them both turning into full-blown whistleblowers! :thumbsup:
 
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