Iknowtoomuch
Gold Meritorious Patron
It does give current Scientologists somewhere to go if they don't want to support the "church". Right now that is a better option than supporting Dm and the abuses.
For the Rathbun "Believers"
- Thread starter Mick Wenlock
- Start date
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
And if all Emma had to offer was a cheesy self promoting blog like Marty, there would probably still only 1 or 2 of them had ever heard of Her.
If it wasn't for the journalists of the The St. Petersburg Times, very few people would know or care who Marty is. He's trying to parlay the 15 minutes of fame they gave him into one of Hubbard mindfuck franchises in the freezone. No one is even remember who he is in a few months, unless he actual comes up with a little more than Miscavige playing grab ass with his assistant.
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
OK - how was he an opinion leader for Public? I'd love to know the details - how would that have come about? The lectures he gave? The international events he appeared on? All the public he audited? Seriosusy.
How would a public in AOSH EU have come to have Marty Rathbun as an opinion leader? I am genuinely fascinated by the concept - and believe it or not, I am very willing to be educated on this.
So you are in touch with online scientologists?
uniquemand
Unbeliever
I've known who Marty was since 1990, because I was a staff member who did the Command Channels of Scientology course, and learned all about the RTC, and other senior level organizations in the Church and their relationship with my own position. I am always surprised by people who weren't aware of people like him, Guillaume LeSevre, and the others who usurped control of the Church after the 1982 schism, particularly if they were members of the Church after that point. Heck, though, there's people in the military who don't know who the Secretary of Defense is, though, too.
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
So you think current "scientologuists" will go to the website of a declared SP and read what he has to say?
Well jeez someone should tell Arnie Lerma that, maybe he would have made a website - oh wait, he did.
Or maybe they would flood ESMB asking all sorts of interesting questions...
oops, not.
Or maybe the ex so would join the XSO list and learn more info from people who were in the SO from the very beginning? Not.
Your binary choice is a false dichotomy
gerry
Patron with Honors
That is correct.
I'm very aware that some "who have been sitting on the fence" do in fact have a sneaky peak and this helps them with their difficult decision to make the break.
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
I can understand staff members and especially Sea Org members making it a point of knowing people in the organizational structure, but as with any church why would parishioners care who's who in management? Do you think many Catholics can name anyone who directly reports to the Pope?
Miss Penguin
Patron with Honors
I don't know how he became an opinion leader for the public I know about, I just know that they knew who he was and respected him. I too was a little surprised that they knew who he was. 3 of the people I know had been on staff in Class V orgs so that would probably explain it for them.
I don't know of any public from AOSH EU so can't say anything about that.
Yes I'm in touch with onlines Scientologist. I'm not exactly flying my freak flag out in public.
I also think that because he is not anti-scientology his blog is more confrontable for those who are starting to doubt what they have been being told. Many Scientologist won't listen if you say anything negative about LRH or Scn but they are open to hearing about DM's crimes, which indicate to them. His blog is spread through word of mouth, the people I know were sent to it by friends. You would be surprised to know how many Scientologist are actually looking online now since the SP times article. There are many who continue to look and track things, but are very much in good standing, not so much active in the church anymore though.
tookmeawhile
Patron with Honors
C'mon, give Marty a chance...
I'm so glad he's speaking out about DM but he's certainly not speaking out against Scientology...
I read some of his blog. Marty is an arrogant f*ck. Oops; guess he used up his chance.
I'm so glad he's speaking out about DM but he's certainly not speaking out against Scientology...
I read some of his blog. Marty is an arrogant f*ck. Oops; guess he used up his chance.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
re Marty Rathbun.
From what I have gathered he is not attacking the 'tech' ... but he is attacking everything else about scientology.
I am OK with that.
Between us (Old guard), anon, and M and M (or R and R) there is much trouble brewing for scientology.
I am OK with that too.
M an M like most of us, were once 'true believers' in all that scientology stood for.
M and M have also have been arseholes, they were in exec positions in an arsehole organisation which was and is suppressive ... but they are now out of it, I just don't feel the need to have their heads on a pike.
Many of us were also arseholes, just from lower positions.
They appear to have a cunning plan, wherein scientology does not end up smelling of roses, and that will be a step in the right direction, but it won't mean that we will all suddenly 'worship' them, that is just crass.
From what I have gathered he is not attacking the 'tech' ... but he is attacking everything else about scientology.
I am OK with that.
Between us (Old guard), anon, and M and M (or R and R) there is much trouble brewing for scientology.
I am OK with that too.
M an M like most of us, were once 'true believers' in all that scientology stood for.
M and M have also have been arseholes, they were in exec positions in an arsehole organisation which was and is suppressive ... but they are now out of it, I just don't feel the need to have their heads on a pike.
Many of us were also arseholes, just from lower positions.
They appear to have a cunning plan, wherein scientology does not end up smelling of roses, and that will be a step in the right direction, but it won't mean that we will all suddenly 'worship' them, that is just crass.
ThisFenceHurts
Patron with Honors
Mick, with the bulk of new Scientology recruits being the internet generation children of longtime Scns, I can assure you that most Scientologists under the age of 30 do a LOT of internet surfing. Scan Facebook and you will find a ton of Scientologists, including a bunch of staff members (not Sea Org, though) and quite a few Scientology businesspeople.
I agree that most do not search for Scientology-related items, but you would be surprised how many look for the South Park episode and other related items. Some write KRs on it, some don't.
And if Rathbun's site convinces one kid who stumbles upon it to get off the Scn trail, it could mean that child's current or future family (wife, kids, etc) will be spared from the whole thing. And that makes it worthwhile to me.
Iknowtoomuch
Gold Meritorious Patron
Your hate for both Scientology and Marty has warped your logic. Your post shows as much.
Arnie wasn't IG Ethics. Arnie wasn't fourth in charge of all of Scientology. Arnie never had a platform like Marty.
You have no clue how many of them are reading and not posting other than the visitiors (124 right this minute...) which we always have many lurkers. What sites do you think a Scientologist is going to go visit if they are in doubt? It's not tough to figure out...
And if you could put that hate aside for a moment you'd know that Scientologists don't just go post up on anti sites...but they do read them. That's how I got here...and many others.
Sorry Mick, your hate is controling you and your thoughts.
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gerry
Patron with Honors
Currently Active Users: 169 (47 members and 122 guests)
122 guests on line right now. I wonder if its a tiny bit possible that a few of them (maybe even a dozen) are scios having a little peek.
Yes I do believe,
The beginning of the future is looking good
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HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Wow, ThisFenceHurts! HelluvaConcept---people writing a KR on the South Park episode?!!??!! I never even imagined that as a possibility!
I had to stop and think what that actually meant in real terms of a human sitting down and reporting WHAT to WHOM for WHAT REASON? Stunning!
Talk about a perfect storm of unreality, indoctrination, delusion and wishful thinking!!!
I still cannot get the idea. Let me at least try...
KNOWLEDGE REPORT
by Joe Theta
I am urgently reporting a cataclysmic event which threatens the eternities of all beings in this sector of the Galaxy. It is an animated cartoon on TV.
I am reporting it to you, COB and RTC & OSA, so that it can be immediately stopped so that no other beings are allowed to view it and that all perpetrators be brought to justice.
While you are handling the hell out of it, be sure to destroy all copies of that cartoon so that it can never be replayed on TV or the Internet by anyone ever.
This should all be done without letting Wogs or lower level Scientologists know that that cartoon contains authentic information about the real disaster that happened 75 million years ago and why this has been a desert ever since.
I fear that people will go crazy, die or worse if they learn the truth. Stop this cartoon before it is too late and we are all enslaved for eternity like Ron warned us!
Ron didn't nearly die (by being the first being to ever make it alive thru the Wall of Fire) in order to save the whole universe.... only to have it all wrecked by a cartoon!
This is true.
Joe Theta
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HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Oooooops, duplicate post! (deleted)
Mystic
Crusader
Wow, ThisFenceHurts! HelluvaConcept---people writing a KR on the South Park episode?!!??!! I never even imagined that as a possibility!
I had to stop and think what that actually meant in real terms of a human sitting down and reporting WHAT to WHOM for WHAT REASON? Stunning!
Talk about a perfect storm of unreality, indoctrination, delusion and wishful thinking!!!
I still cannot get the idea. Let me at least try...
KNOWLEDGE REPORT
by Joe Theta
I am urgently reporting a cataclysmic event which threatens the eternities of all beings in this sector of the Galaxy. It is an animated cartoon on TV.
I am reporting it to you, COB and RTC & OSA, so that it can be immediately stopped so that no other beings are allowed to view it and that all perpetrators be brought to justice.
While you are handling the hell out of it, be sure to destroy all copies of that cartoon so that it can never be replayed on TV or the Internet by anyone ever.
This should all be done without letting Wogs or lower level Scientologists know that that cartoon contains authentic information about the real disaster that happened 75 million years ago and why this has been a desert ever since.
I fear that people will go crazy, die or worse if they learn the truth. Stop this cartoon before it is too late and we are all enslaved for eternity like Ron warned us!
Ron didn't nearly die (by being the first being to ever make it alive thru the Wall of Fire) in order to save the whole universe.... only to have it all wrecked by a cartoon!
This is true.
Joe Theta
Best KR ever.
Carmel
Crusader
Out all day, and just caught up with this thread.....
I don't personally feel any hate or resentment towards Marty. By the same token though, the thought of the effect that Marty and his clan are now having on 'exes' and fence sitters, chills me to the core, and that has led to me having a problem with Marty.
I can't help but think of those years ago, when critics risked so much, did so much, and copped so much, to expose the abuses of the CofS which were the result of the Scientology "package". After going through hell and high water, those critics finally got that heavy 'mother' of a ball rolling, to the point where it took off like an exponential curve.
From Freezoners through to Anons, there has been just so much work done by so many, to expose the CofS for what it is, and the Scientology "package" for what it is in its entirety. Hundreds and thousands have looked, seen, and started on the road to recovery because 1) they were predisposed to finding out wtf was going on and what was behind all the crap, and 2) there were answers and support. How long and how much effort by so many, did it take to get to the point where it was, earlier this year, prior to the St Pete's Times articles?
Marty had been out for some years prior to this. He didn't have to "find out wtf was was going on, and/or what was behind all the crap" because he knew what was, and he was one of the few who perpetrated a lot of it. Yet he 'sat' on it for some years. Why? And what caused his change of heart?
What gave Marty the impetus to finally speak out when he did? Was it remorse? Was it the realization that he had better be seen to be doing the right thing (now that the truth was coming out), in order to save his own ass from the legal authorities? Or was it a bright idea to capitalize on the hoards of people now leaving the church in droves?
Bloody hell! So many have done so much, and gotten so far in regard to exposing the CofS and Scientology (in its entirety), for what it is and for what it's responsible for. Then along comes Marty, at the eleventh hour, blaming it all on DM (when he was one of DM's #1 henchmen); he was one who actively implemented and forwarded the crap we all object to; he takes little or no responsibility for what he did (giving 'sufficient' lip service, hardly cuts the mustard); he remains tight lipped about the corporate structure and 'scam' of the 'church'; he's rallied 'allies'; fence sitters and some exes are treating him like some kind of hero/saviour; newly or would be "outs" are latching on to his explanation for all that has transpired (because as we know, facing the scam and having the loss, is a tough one...blaming it all on DM is much more confrontable and a far easier ride); he's already got a following of people who aren't even questioning why the fuck he doesn't blow the lid off the CofS when they should know that he is one of the very few people who could; etc, etc; etc (no need for me to write a 'book' on it here, when his blog tells a story).
Some may ask, why should some of us distrust him so, but I would ask, why would so many trust him?
The ironic thing is, that's it's mainly the "Scios" or "techies" who are trusting him. Those who you would think would be looking at things like; "Look Don't Listen"; the condition formulas below Non-E; the Data Series; Precept 17 of TWTH; the success with application of some of the PR Series; responsibility on four flows; the reference where it says that ya cop the condition ya don't assign; yadda, yadda, yadda. For some reason though, these references don't apply to the likes of Marty, just like they didn't apply to the likes of DM (and for way too long).
I'm not one of those who threw the baby out with all the bath water. Some label me as a "pro techie". I'm not "anti" Freezone, although personally, I would never again pursue Scn nor suggest anyone else to. I'm not anti anyone for what they believe in, and I'm not "anti" Marty because of what he did in the past. It is what he has not done since he left and what he is doing now, that bothers me.
I am very "anti", when it comes to anything and everything that cuts across the truth of Scn and the truth of CofS being exposed. I'm also dumbfounded as to how so many "pro techies" can put so much trust and faith in a man (and/or flow so much admiration and support), when that man hasn't acknowledged nor anywhere near made up the damage, for what he has done - it's all relative. I don't think Marty should be 'damned' or never trusted because of his history. However, nor do I think that he should be trusted or supported at this time, given his omission of responsibility and lack of action to date.
The idea of anyone conning the masses to believing that this was all DM's doing (while shoving his or her own related 'crimes' under the carpet), and 'safeguarding' the 'church' so it can or may continue, makes me want to vomit, cry, and oppose.
What happens to all that hard work over the last decade or two? Are the "Marty" supporters happy to see all that go down the girgler, and then inevitably after a period of time, have another three decades of human rights abuses repeat themselves, before a whole new wave of people (years down the track) see it again and rally together to fight it, all over again?
I am pissed off that so many have gotten on the band wagon. I am fearful for the future, and I can't handle the idea that so much may well be in serious jeopardy right now as a result of yet another con man doing his tricks, with people falling for it, all over again - We have been so damn close to exposing the whole fucking scam and bringing down the CofS - I consider that what Marty is doing, as a major threat to that.
There aren't just 'two' sides to all of this. Being a Scio doesn’t mean you’re a “bad guy” and being a “critic” doesn’t mean you’re a good guy – Fool ANYONE who thinks that it does.
I don't personally feel any hate or resentment towards Marty. By the same token though, the thought of the effect that Marty and his clan are now having on 'exes' and fence sitters, chills me to the core, and that has led to me having a problem with Marty.
I can't help but think of those years ago, when critics risked so much, did so much, and copped so much, to expose the abuses of the CofS which were the result of the Scientology "package". After going through hell and high water, those critics finally got that heavy 'mother' of a ball rolling, to the point where it took off like an exponential curve.
From Freezoners through to Anons, there has been just so much work done by so many, to expose the CofS for what it is, and the Scientology "package" for what it is in its entirety. Hundreds and thousands have looked, seen, and started on the road to recovery because 1) they were predisposed to finding out wtf was going on and what was behind all the crap, and 2) there were answers and support. How long and how much effort by so many, did it take to get to the point where it was, earlier this year, prior to the St Pete's Times articles?
Marty had been out for some years prior to this. He didn't have to "find out wtf was was going on, and/or what was behind all the crap" because he knew what was, and he was one of the few who perpetrated a lot of it. Yet he 'sat' on it for some years. Why? And what caused his change of heart?
What gave Marty the impetus to finally speak out when he did? Was it remorse? Was it the realization that he had better be seen to be doing the right thing (now that the truth was coming out), in order to save his own ass from the legal authorities? Or was it a bright idea to capitalize on the hoards of people now leaving the church in droves?
Bloody hell! So many have done so much, and gotten so far in regard to exposing the CofS and Scientology (in its entirety), for what it is and for what it's responsible for. Then along comes Marty, at the eleventh hour, blaming it all on DM (when he was one of DM's #1 henchmen); he was one who actively implemented and forwarded the crap we all object to; he takes little or no responsibility for what he did (giving 'sufficient' lip service, hardly cuts the mustard); he remains tight lipped about the corporate structure and 'scam' of the 'church'; he's rallied 'allies'; fence sitters and some exes are treating him like some kind of hero/saviour; newly or would be "outs" are latching on to his explanation for all that has transpired (because as we know, facing the scam and having the loss, is a tough one...blaming it all on DM is much more confrontable and a far easier ride); he's already got a following of people who aren't even questioning why the fuck he doesn't blow the lid off the CofS when they should know that he is one of the very few people who could; etc, etc; etc (no need for me to write a 'book' on it here, when his blog tells a story).
Some may ask, why should some of us distrust him so, but I would ask, why would so many trust him?
The ironic thing is, that's it's mainly the "Scios" or "techies" who are trusting him. Those who you would think would be looking at things like; "Look Don't Listen"; the condition formulas below Non-E; the Data Series; Precept 17 of TWTH; the success with application of some of the PR Series; responsibility on four flows; the reference where it says that ya cop the condition ya don't assign; yadda, yadda, yadda. For some reason though, these references don't apply to the likes of Marty, just like they didn't apply to the likes of DM (and for way too long).
I'm not one of those who threw the baby out with all the bath water. Some label me as a "pro techie". I'm not "anti" Freezone, although personally, I would never again pursue Scn nor suggest anyone else to. I'm not anti anyone for what they believe in, and I'm not "anti" Marty because of what he did in the past. It is what he has not done since he left and what he is doing now, that bothers me.
I am very "anti", when it comes to anything and everything that cuts across the truth of Scn and the truth of CofS being exposed. I'm also dumbfounded as to how so many "pro techies" can put so much trust and faith in a man (and/or flow so much admiration and support), when that man hasn't acknowledged nor anywhere near made up the damage, for what he has done - it's all relative. I don't think Marty should be 'damned' or never trusted because of his history. However, nor do I think that he should be trusted or supported at this time, given his omission of responsibility and lack of action to date.
The idea of anyone conning the masses to believing that this was all DM's doing (while shoving his or her own related 'crimes' under the carpet), and 'safeguarding' the 'church' so it can or may continue, makes me want to vomit, cry, and oppose.
What happens to all that hard work over the last decade or two? Are the "Marty" supporters happy to see all that go down the girgler, and then inevitably after a period of time, have another three decades of human rights abuses repeat themselves, before a whole new wave of people (years down the track) see it again and rally together to fight it, all over again?
I am pissed off that so many have gotten on the band wagon. I am fearful for the future, and I can't handle the idea that so much may well be in serious jeopardy right now as a result of yet another con man doing his tricks, with people falling for it, all over again - We have been so damn close to exposing the whole fucking scam and bringing down the CofS - I consider that what Marty is doing, as a major threat to that.
There aren't just 'two' sides to all of this. Being a Scio doesn’t mean you’re a “bad guy” and being a “critic” doesn’t mean you’re a good guy – Fool ANYONE who thinks that it does.
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HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
degraded being
Sponsor
Isn't that what Ron said? >>>What is true for you is true for you so we do not tell you what to thnk>
As as for religious beliefs, I don't care either, except if the religious beliefs are about ruling the world, harrasing dissenters, locking people up. Keeping people in stressful conditions, forcing separation between family members etc.
But Marty isn't doing that is he? And Marty does not approve of that does he? And he knows that is not Ron's policy doesn't he?
It's not about how the top trained liars from the cult of scientology can sound nice. Even for the sake of argument, if he was sincere, people do remember how they were sweet talked into being suckers constantly while in the cult. They would have to be idots, not to explore all perspectives very carefully.
SchwimmelPuckel
Genuine Meatball
Great post Carmel! 