How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)
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Gadfly
Crusader
Hey Vin . . . . . . . Yo!
Though, let's be honest here. That's a great deal easier said that done. :confused2:
For most people, if they let it all go - all emotion, thoughts and effort, without avoiding, resisting or suppressing exactly what is "right there", well, there just ain't much left (of him or her)!!!!
All of this manufactured thought, exagerrated emotion, and necessary effort is what makes a person "who" he or she is. Most of that would go away (POOF, vanished) if any person honestly decided to stop avoiding, resisting or suppressing what it "actually there".
People seem to LIKE their "judgments" (i.e. biases, belief systems, proclivities, tendencies, Karmic "action type" influences). It becomes difficult to support and cheer for ones "team" when one abandons "judgment". It seems that most people feel "lost" without it.
Gadfly
Crusader
Actually, you can bypass it all by simply getting rid of any agreement of your own to attach or attract or be influenced by other "life forces".
For cripes sake, these suckers go down to the level of a single electron. Those dudes are SOLID, BEING the exact vibration of one single electron! Let them do what they want to do. There is no need for YOU to address them and "handle" them. "They" are EVERYWHERE, at every level of reality. They are the invisible differentiated "life force" that sets the "pattern" or "arrangement" at any level of reality anywhere, both physical and mental.
Hubbard reeled you in by making you think that any of "them" hold any special significance (for you). You need to handle yourself and why it is that YOU put yourself in a position to be influenced or affected by other "life forces" (like BTs).
You don't need to "audit THEM out", you need to AUDIT why it is that you feel the need or desire to become the victim and effect of their "influences". To me it seems that OT3 through OT 7 auditing involves a very indirect and roundabout way to approach the "problem".
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Gadfly, I have never approached any Entity handling from the viewpoint of "getting rid of" or "need to handle (for my benefit) in order to be free of them". I've always approached this stuff from the viewpoint of helping fellow Beings where they desired that help.
Sometimes it required considerable patience and perseverance on my part but, ultimately, I've always managed to help anyone I audited.
I've never felt like a victim of Entity phenomena nor any of the motivators Hubbard expounded upon.
Sometimes it required considerable patience and perseverance on my part but, ultimately, I've always managed to help anyone I audited.
I've never felt like a victim of Entity phenomena nor any of the motivators Hubbard expounded upon.
me myself & i
Patron Meritorious
What a refreshing experience following this thread is and has become for me.
Thanks.
mm&i
P.S. May I just say of course I am speaking for the whole team over here when I am speaking in terms of mySelf?
and long live the basic ideas of Gurdjieff's understanding of the 'many I's', as it were, in terms of our spiritual construction.
Thanks.
mm&i
P.S. May I just say of course I am speaking for the whole team over here when I am speaking in terms of mySelf?
and long live the basic ideas of Gurdjieff's understanding of the 'many I's', as it were, in terms of our spiritual construction.
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Veda
Sponsor
Then you haven't been doing Scientology, you've been, as they say, "squirrelling."
The emphasis in Scientology is on blowing what Hubbard called "fleas."
One handles, if necessary, in order to BLOW.
There are no "spiritual teammates" in Scientology tech, no Guardian Angels although Hubbard mentioned Guardian Angels briefly, in a lecture, in late 1952 (When he was reading Aleister Crowley).
People can decide to alter Scientology, and add compassion where there was none, but it's their add on.
And good for them.
But it's not Scientology anymore, it's another subject.
This is one reason why people - some of whom still do counseling, who've had prior experience in Scientology - cease calling themselves Scientologists or identifying themselves with Scientology.
Granted, Hubbard lied to Scientologists about Scientology, encouraged Scientologists to lie to others about Scientology, and to lie to themselves about Scientology, so it's a mess.
Vinaire
Sponsor
Vin, You evaluate so freely.
Allow me return the favour: you don't seem to fully understand what I said.
Sorry for being so blunt... but do I sense some fear here.
.
Vinaire
Sponsor
Hey Vin . . . . . . . Yo!
Though, let's be honest here. That's a great deal easier said that done. :confused2:
For most people, if they let it all go - all emotion, thoughts and effort, without avoiding, resisting or suppressing exactly what is "right there", well, there just ain't much left (of him or her)!!!!
All of this manufactured thought, exagerrated emotion, and necessary effort is what makes a person "who" he or she is. Most of that would go away (POOF, vanished) if any person honestly decided to stop avoiding, resisting or suppressing what it "actually there".
People seem to LIKE their "judgments" (i.e. biases, belief systems, proclivities, tendencies, Karmic "action type" influences). It becomes difficult to support and cheer for ones "team" when one abandons "judgment". It seems that most people feel "lost" without it.
You are right, Gadfly.
I have done OT1 VM (Vipassana Meditation) style... or KHTK (Knowing How To Know) style.
LOOK & NOTICE
EXPERIENCE
ATTENTION
VIEWPOINT
I have been doing OT II KHTK Style... I must say I have as-ised some interesting stuff... almost like going unconscious and then suddenly waking up... so I can't put in words what I as-ised.
I plan to do rest of the OT levels KHTK style and see what is there.
If I am going to disappear then let it be so.
But I hope to live up to 90 like Buddha.
.
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Vinaire
Sponsor
Looks like on OT II one is really experiencing and moving through some very basic concepts and clearing them.
As part of my OT II I am going through all the AXIOMS, LOGICS and FACTORS. See here:
Axioms, Logics and Factors
.
As part of my OT II I am going through all the AXIOMS, LOGICS and FACTORS. See here:
Axioms, Logics and Factors
.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Yes, Veda, I understand that many have approached auditing Entities as you describe above, it possibly accounts for some of the trouble some people seem to have with them.
I didn't say that I failed to blow them or thought of them as Spiritual Teammates or Guardian Angels etc. I thought of them as Entities, Spiritual Beings who were my PCs. Of course I audited "BTs" to blow, as one does in scientology, the difference being I simply audited them until they were "squared around" and ready to leave. I once heard an "OT VII" describe his auditing as "like blowing them out of the water with a Howitzer", I just shook my head in disbelief and have never spoken to him since.
I have always disliked the Hubbardian attitude towards "BTs", it rang false to me when I first heard it and it rings false to me still. I never adopted that lofty, I'm-greater-than-thou attitude when addressing Entities or any PC. (Of course, I am guilty of having done that many times in life as concerns other "whole people".)
When it comes to auditing others, to me, the Auditors Code and my own Integrity trumps all else.
Was my approach scientology or was it squirreling?
What I did in my 34 years of intense study and auditing was, per my understanding, scientology. It's possibly not scientology per your definition or viewpoint. It's possibly not per some other's definition either but that never caused me any problems, to me I was a practicing scientologist.
I have many Certs and Awards and Commendations to this effect. They mean little to me nowadays (except as an historical record) but I think that receiving a KSW #1 Award from the Snr C/S Int for the standardness of my auditing would belie your idea that I wasn't doing scientology.
As I've said many times here, I no longer audit others nor practice scientology. My only interest in contributing to this thread lies in the direction of bringing about better understanding of Auditing on OTVII.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Fear? From whence does that idea stem?
Rest assured, I'm only trying to be helpful and add some truth, as I see it.
Vinaire
Sponsor
Vinaire
Sponsor
The basic assumption here is that these Entities/Spiritual Team-mates are independent units just like any spirit. Is that true? Or, are you putting life in them through your "hidden" considerations?
"Mind" is just a catch-all phrase. I am simply looking at this phenomenon more closely.
There is more here than what meets the eye. Maybe LOOKING per KHTK can penetrate it all the way.
I'll find out.
.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Yes, Vin, that is my experience.
They are, per my current understanding, seperate life units; Beings just like any other.
Some may indeed be self-created, I'm sure we've all had the experience of investing life-like theta into normally inanimate objects.
Enjoy your explorations.
They are, per my current understanding, seperate life units; Beings just like any other.
Some may indeed be self-created, I'm sure we've all had the experience of investing life-like theta into normally inanimate objects.
Enjoy your explorations.
Vinaire
Sponsor
Yes, Vin, that is my experience.
They are, per my current understanding, seperate life units; Beings just like any other.
Some may indeed be self-created, I'm sure we've all had the experience of investing life-like theta into normally inanimate objects.
Enjoy your explorations.
I thought so. It is your experience. I don't deny that.
But I don't have to pattern my experience after yours. There is Buddha's experience too. I should be able to look further and farther.
What is a BEING?
Here is some of my looking:
(1) Manifestation of these considerations makes us consider a Cause or origination point.
(2) These considerations are then origination from that point, or effect of that Cause.
(3) Both cause and effect are considerations that are tied to each other, and to other considerations, in a certain way, which determines their significance or meaning (logical association).
(4) The whole scope of Cause is defined by the effect.
(5) “Beginning” is related to Time, and it is the first component of a cycle of action.
(6) The whole scope of Time is defined by the cycle of action.
(1) The consideration “to be” comes about, the moment any manifestation comes about.
(2) Thus, “to be” is a consideration that is a part of all considerations.
(3) “Beginning” starts with the manifestation of the prime consideration.
(4) The prime consideration lasts until it is as-ised in its totality. At that point it disappears.
(5) The consideration of Time is a part of that prime consideration.
(6) Thus, Time lasts as long as that prime consideration lasts. This time is “forever” from the viewpoint of that prime consideration.
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Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Yes, I've read it before.
My answer is the same as yours;
My answer is the same as yours;
Vinaire
Sponsor
Vinaire
Sponsor
It seems to me that to those with Semitic background:
GOD would be the most significant ENITITY / SPIRITUAL TEAM-MATE, though it may not be immediately obvious.
Sorry if this comes across as an evaluation. I am just looking at the consideration that might be there. I could be wrong.
GOD could be the most significant ENITITY / SPIRITUAL SLAVE MASTER.
If this aomes across as a bad joke... I apologize for being so irreverent.
.
GOD would be the most significant ENITITY / SPIRITUAL TEAM-MATE, though it may not be immediately obvious.
Sorry if this comes across as an evaluation. I am just looking at the consideration that might be there. I could be wrong.
GOD could be the most significant ENITITY / SPIRITUAL SLAVE MASTER.
If this aomes across as a bad joke... I apologize for being so irreverent.
.
Vinaire
Sponsor
I applaud that, truly!
Personally, for me, it is to get the other person, totally independently, looking for themselves. Per that criterion you are doing the right thing.
But, I don't want any dependence on any e-meter either.
Lastly, I don't want any dependence on any auditor either.
The most sincerest and honest way that I can express myself is through the following:
LOOK & NOTICE
EXPERIENCE
ATTENTION
VIEWPOINT
But this is far from complete. I have to walk my talk, and there is still a long way to go.
.