I AM A CHRISTIAN SCIENTOLOGIST

[secretiveoldfag]

Does anyone imagine Ron was not familiar with Scripture? Or with what fundamentalist preachers preach and how their audiences react? Or with the Boy Scout Law?

My belief is that Ron at an early age acquired and thoroughly studied a book called Compendium of World Religions: a Treasure-House of Gobbledegook with which the Informed can Ensnare the Minds of Credulous People.

 

[Pip]

I am amazed you can hold two polarizing neo religious concepts in juxtaposition and combine them. Kind of like making goulash from spaghetti and pop tarts. That takes quite a bit of weaving to make a unified tapestry of the two to put it in another frame of reference. But, good for you as maybe you're on to something so far beyond my frame of reference that, If you're right, I've totally missed out on the unified concept that could have saved my soul from forced reincarnation into a world I'm weary of...

The key is in the first line of The Factors. "Before the beginning was a cause and the entire purpose of the cause was the creation of effect".

That statement is absolute not realitive and so "it changes everything". Scientology starts with beingness, Christianity starts with God. "Before anything was the word already existed". That word is personhood, the source of love.

I have known that sense of "forced reincarnation" into a world I couldn't escape from since I was about 14.

 

[Pip]

Pip, I am a Christian but I left Scientology many years ago, in 1973. This was before the really bad abuses and RPFing and all.

I do not understand how you could be a Christian and aware of these abuses and still call yourself a Scientologist. Or even be in any agreement with the policies or tech of the CO$.

Love & Light,
Pat

Hi Pat,
What comes to mind are the words of Jesus as he hung on the cross "Forgive them father for they know not what they do". Those that engineered his crucifixation were sincere Jews but he never suggested that his followers should stop going to the synagogue.

 

[uniquemand]

Hi Pat,
What comes to mind are the words of Jesus as he hung on the cross "Forgive them father for they know not what they do". Those that engineered his crucifixation were sincere Jews but he never suggested that his followers should stop going to the synagogue.

We don't know that a guy named Jesus hung on a cross. That's the myth, though.

Personally, I enjoyed reading parts of the Bible, and got a great deal of wisdom from the words attributed to Jesus. I don't need him to be an actual god or demigod to value that wisdom, and I don't need the Bible to tell me how to interpret that wisdom.

I enjoyed the version of the bible where his words were the whole text, everything else cut out.

If the Bible, or Christianity, or Scientology get you to a point where you understand and love your fellow human beings, I have no problem with that. My only problem is with evil perpetrated in the name of religion and spirituality, and obscuring of truth through dense terminology or mystery.

 

[uniquemand]

Emma,

There are some people who might like to know what Ron actually thought of their religion.

Which button do I push if I want to e-mail that "HEAVEN HCOB" to all Christians in the world?

HH

Just send it to me, if you don't know, HH. I'll get it out there. Send it to Julian Assange.

 

[Captain Koolaid]

Scientologists asked about the vengeance of their "religion" against critics have frequently said that Scientology is not a religion that turns the other cheek. Just what Jesus said, right?

Jesus always had an open ear for people burdened with problems, and he never charged them anything. That is so out-exchange.

Jesus taught that pure love is the way to create a better world, Hubbard preferred deception, backstabbing and unreasonableness to avoid even the slightest hint of compassion. Love is something pure, and it cannot be controlled, that's why Hubbard hated it so much that he replaced it with a clinical term (ARC).

 

[Clarence Rockaway]

Scientologists asked about the vengeance of their "religion" against critics have frequently said that Scientology is not a religion that turns the other cheek. Just what Jesus said, right?

Jesus always had an open ear for people burdened with problems, and he never charged them anything. That is so out-exchange.

Jesus taught that pure love is the way to create a better world, Hubbard preferred deception, backstabbing and unreasonableness to avoid even the slightest hint of compassion. Love is something pure, and it cannot be controlled, that's why Hubbard hated it so much that he replaced it with a clinical term (ARC).

Pip, I don't know why but I like you.
I really think you're a good guy. Nuttier than a squirrel's fart on the subject of religion, but a guy I'd like to have next to me in the trenches. So let me ask you a few questions. Not as a challenge. Whatever path you're on is right for you. But just to help me fathom your depth. And you ARE deep.

Firstly, if you're a Scientologist why are you posting on an EX-scientology board? Secondly, if you believe the Bible from cover to cover, and you worship Jesus Christ, doesn't it bother you at all, that he said "for I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--A man's enemies will be the members of his own household" Matthew 10:35-36.

Again in Luke 14:26 he says "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes even his own life, he cannot be my disciple". He promoted burning non believers, in John 15:6. He stole livestock, see Luke 19:30-33. He told people to cut off hands, feet and gouge out their eyes. There's more besides.
Just what is it about this egomaniacal bag of fart that you think is holy?

 

[Pip]

I will support yours, or anyone's, right to be a Christian Scientologist, Muslim Hindu whatever you feel works for you.

But
You state: "I would join the CofS tomorrow"

Pip, no person who truly lives their Christian belief would actively seek to become a member and, therefore support, any organisation that they KNOW (and I am assuming that you are very aware of the nature of this church) uses slave labour. Abuses staff to the point that it would be deemed torture (denial of sleep, physical abuse), enforces abortions on staff members, splits up families, encourages divorces, covers up paedophilia and blames the child. It just doesn't gel with living in the spirit of Christ.

And that is just some of the things this organisation does to it's staff. Then there is another long list of things it does to it's followers and detractors.

I just do not understand how you can profess your Christianity and the only reason you don't support this foul organisation is because they don't want you!

Yes I would but only if I could be in my own chosen identity. I would want the post of Chaplin because as I understand it, that post is directly answerable to LRH and I would have written on the door of my office "Come unto me all you who are heavy laden and I will give you rest". author Jesus Christ.

I am well aware of what goes on both in and out of the CofS, one would have to be deaf, blind and stupid not to know. My Bible says "Love your enemies, do good to those that persecute you". I didn't say I support organisations after all LRH said "All organisations are suppressive", but I do support human beings.

 

[Pip]

Bondage Bear is more my type.

Whatever turns you on!

 

[Pip]

If Pip identifies himself as a Christian, who am I to say otherwise? But people trying to understand his viewpoint should be aware that the particular kind of Christianity he mentions is Unitarianism. That's a church with a really broad set of beliefs — even Anglicans (Episcopalians in the US) look like fundamentalists in comparison. So it's not as though Pip is claiming to be a Roman Catholic Scientologist, or a Southern Baptist Scientologist. Trying to catch him out in some contradiction with orthodox Christian doctrine is going to be pretty wide of the mark. If he considers himself UU more than anything else, then what he means by Christianity may well not be in any conflict with Scientology. And if you want to say, "That doesn't count as Christianity!", well ... I guess Benedict XVI doesn't just tweet, now. He must post on ESMB.

Actually I am not a Unitarian. I first tried that Church 30 years ago and left because there was not enough Jesus. I only returned because I had temporally run out of churches and I found this site on the web that called themselves Biblical Unitarians, so I thought I would give them another go. I am really a fundamental fundamentalist, something that is impossible unless one is a Scientologist. I must be the only Unitarian who is a Trinitarian but to sort that one out it is necessary to differentiate beween spirit and soul.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I don't believe it!

You guys have gone on for this many posts and NO ONE mentioned the fact that in the OT three story, It's taught that Jesus Christ is an implant? What is going on here? Are you guys still Scilons thinking you need to keep it secret?

Pip; You need to know the OT III story. It's a total lie that it will hurt you to read it before you do the level. Millions probably have without any harm but maybe a sore side from laughing.

The short version is Hubbard taught us that we are all possessed by dead alien thetans, called 'body thetans' sort of like the 'legion' guy in the new testament. You use the e-meter sort of like an electronic Ouija board to 'solo audit' which is really a misleading term, because you still have an auditor and a preclear; the body thetan! The idea is to get them to leave and go get their own body. Anyone with enough money always has thousands of these spiritual fleas.

Another major part of this teaching is the heresy that the whole story of Christ is nothing but an 'implant' done to these spirits when Xenu hypnotized them way back when. In other words, if you pursue Scientology to it's higher levels, you will have to completely deny Christ. You have to embrace the idea that your Christianity was nothing more than your OT III bank, and it needs to be 'cleared'.

Hubbard clearly taught this.

Actually, I did mention it. So did Emma.

And, no, Hubbard did NOT say that "Jesus" was an implant. He said that CHRIST was. You are aware that Christ was not Jesus' name, right? It's a title. It means the Anointed one. The messiah, IOW.

Hubbard felt Jesus was just a man. Not that Jesus didn't exist.

 

[Mystic]

What is an isn't in a name.

The Roman emperor Constantine (full name: Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus) was born and raised in Britannia. He didn't make it to Rome until his mid teens. During his boyhood in Britannia he experienced many things, including aspects of Celtic religion.

After he became emperor and all that carrying on was carrying on about what it was carrying on about, Constantine tried to put some sort of order into the carrying on and ordered the Council of Nicea. To make a long story short, he ended up issuing a decree that the new God to be worshiped would be called "Esus Krishna".

"Esus" was the name of a Celtic god with whom he was familiar. "Krishna" was, of course, well, Krishna, accredited founder of Hinduism and a great teacher of spirit.

Hail Esus Krishna!

(The letter "J" didn't come about until around 8-9th century.)

 

[DagwoodGum]

So how do you feel about Hubbard denying Christ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60HzfzQxMEc

[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]From "Assists" lecture. 3 October 1968. #10 in the confidential Class VIII series of lectures:
"Anyway, Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don't think that it's an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied. Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified."[/FONT][/FONT]

So, OK, is this the real or the fake LRH, as substituted by the CIA and their allies? My vote is this is the fake LRH. I'm serious, we need to get this sorted out, otherwise I'm despising a man that I should not despise as I can't cloak myself in a fake shroud of forgiveness to "make it all OK." I need the truth and second hand beliefs just don't cut it for me... Real Ron or Fake Ron? Maybe we need a poll and read the comments of those who knew him.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/dbf0fac860051e47

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Scientologists asked about the vengeance of their "religion" against critics have frequently said that Scientology is not a religion that turns the other cheek. Just what Jesus said, right?

Jesus always had an open ear for people burdened with problems, and he never charged them anything. That is so out-exchange.

Jesus taught that pure love is the way to create a better world, Hubbard preferred deception, backstabbing and unreasonableness to avoid even the slightest hint of compassion. Love is something pure, and it cannot be controlled, that's why Hubbard hated it so much that he replaced it with a clinical term (ARC).

That struck me as a very accurate and consise statement made by a very intelligent person !

 

[Auditor's Toad]

So, OK, is this the real or the fake LRH, as substituted by the CIA and their allies? My vote is this is the fake LRH. I'm serious, we need to get this sorted out, otherwise I'm despising a man that I should not despise as I can't cloak myself in a fake shroud of forgiveness to "make it all OK." I need the truth and second hand beliefs just don't cut it for me... Real Ron or Fake Ron? Maybe we need a poll and read the comments of those who knew him.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/dbf0fac860051e47

But wasn't the "real" ron,uh, fake?

 

[Challenge]

So, OK, is this the real or the fake LRH, as substituted by the CIA and their allies? My vote is this is the fake LRH. I'm serious, we need to get this sorted out, otherwise I'm despising a man that I should not despise as I can't cloak myself in a fake shroud of forgiveness to "make it all OK." I need the truth and second hand beliefs just don't cut it for me... Real Ron or Fake Ron? Maybe we need a poll and read the comments of those who knew him.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/dbf0fac860051e47

See that 'bump' on his head?
That's LRH.
That 'bump' is the cancer that he had removed from his forehead.


challenge

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Thanks, Trin, I picked up the Unitarian bit and was going to point it out. Unitarians are generally so laid back they're barely religious. It's the church of choice for gay and lesbian people, eg. You know, big on art and music and low on dogma. I wouldn't call it fundamentalist.

On the other hand, I *would* call Scientology fundamentalist.

PD

I sort of decided if I ever had to pick a religion that I claimed as mine it would be the Unity Churches.

Why? Instead of hymns at their services they sing show tunes .
And I ask you, what is not to love about that?

 

[Operating DB]

And you're hoping it will last forever, huh?

I'm not that naive. Life basically sucks. But at least I'm not involved in a religion that makes it more sucky.

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

doesn't it bother you at all, that he said "for I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--A man's enemies will be the members of his own household" Matthew 10:35-36.

Again in Luke 14:26 he says "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes even his own life, he cannot be my disciple".

He promoted burning non believers, in John 15:6.

He stole livestock, see Luke 19:30-33.

He told people to cut off hands, feet and gouge out their eyes.

Some interesting references there. I'm not sure how to interpret the ones from Matthew and Luke in a favourable way. I would be interested in a practicing Christian's viewpoint on those.

Burning non-believers in John. I'm not buying that. He was cutting branches and burning them after they whithered. I wouldn't interpret that as burning non-believers.

Stealing Livestock in Luke. No, again the followers went there and his prediction was correct. The owners were aware of the transaction. There is no evidence that the followers beat up the owners or otherwise strong armed the deal.

So I'll give you 2 out of 4 valid problem areas.

What's even more interesting is how come you're so knowledgable about the Bible.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Just send it to me, if you don't know, HH. I'll get it out there. Send it to Julian Assange.

Well, that would be a "blow to the enemy" wouldn't it? Not sure how many Christians would find that LRH anti-Christianity rant on WikiLeaks.

But, I wonder if this would work?

To compile a radioactive email that went viral ("pass it on to every Christian you know...") detailing all the scathing, degrading & debasing things that Hubbard said about Christ, Jesus, Heaven and the Christian religion itself. Maybe throw in some tasty bits as well about how "Priests" were the cause of the entrapment, strife and suffering in this world.

I guess it would be a justified warning from one Christian to another to keep their family and friends the hell away from Scientology.

Honestly, if Christians KNEW what Hubbard (and Scientologists) really thought about them, they would create a Tsunami of grassroots activism against people getting involved.

It really falls under the category of RELIGIOUS HATE and it might be quite healthy to pull it out from beneath the deep layers of the onion that it was safely buried within, into the daylight where people could see the truth about what Scientology really is.