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I AM A CHRISTIAN SCIENTOLOGIST

Captain Koolaid

Patron Meritorious
I just remembered: Somewhere Hubbard wrote that he had to do a lot of false data stripping on a pc to extract all the false purposes (?) put in there by the Catholic church. Can't find it anywhere, unfortunately, maybe it was somewhere in the course pack for the False purpose RD.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Some interesting references there. I'm not sure how to interpret the ones from Matthew and Luke in a favourable way. I would be intersted in a practicing Christian's viewpoint on those.

Burning non-believers in John. I'm not buying that. He was cutting branches and burning them after they whithered. I wouldn't interpret that as burning non-believers.

Stealing Livestock in Luke. No, again the followers went there and his prediction was correct. The owners were aware of the transaction. There is no evidence that the followers beat up the owners or otherwise strong armed the deal.

So I'll give you 2 out of 4 valid problem areas. :thumbsup:

What's even more interesting is how come you're so knowledgable about the Bible.

As a possible answer to your last question, Lesolee, I submit the very real possibility that he READS! I know...as unlikely as it seems. :ohmy:

It is something very much encouraged in Judaism, particularly, as well as in most other tribes, families and faiths. :yes:

But to actually, carefully and thoroughly read the whole bible and not just pick up what is fed to you, or what appeals to you is something not commonly practiced by the multitudes who refer to themselves a "Christians" in my observation and experience. :no:

Your mileage may vary, so let yer conscience be yer guide! :p

EP

(I was brought up in the Methodist Church, btw - so I guess I could appropriately be called a "Christian")
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
My religion?

I am both a Hoaxologist and a part-time Misenthetathrope.



Misenthetathrope. A person who doesn't mis the entheta of Scientology and in fact hates it.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Actually, I did mention it. So did Emma.

And, no, Hubbard did NOT say that "Jesus" was an implant. He said that CHRIST was. You are aware that Christ was not Jesus' name, right? It's a title. It means the Anointed one. The messiah, IOW.

Hubbard felt Jesus was just a man. Not that Jesus didn't exist.

Hubbard thought just about everything was an implant except the money he took from people.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Actually, I did mention it. So did Emma.

And, no, Hubbard did NOT say that "Jesus" was an implant. He said that CHRIST was. You are aware that Christ was not Jesus' name, right? It's a title. It means the Anointed one. The messiah, IOW.

Hubbard felt Jesus was just a man. Not that Jesus didn't exist.

True, but....

Hubbard also said that he, himself, was "just a man".

But then--

Hubbard also said that he was "from another planet".

Hubbard said a lot of things.



Ref: Hubbard Law of Commotion. "For each and every thing that Ron said with total certainty, there is an equal and opposite thing that Ron said with total certainty."
 
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J. Swift

Patron with Honors
Scientology and Primitive Christianity are compatible if one does a literal, fundamentalist reading of the New Testament. For example, the New Testament seeks to protects families except when Jesus decides that your family members are, err, suppressive and that disconnection is needed:

"Don't think I've come to make life cozy. I've come to cut — make a sharp knife-cut between son and father, daughter and mother, bride and mother-in-law—cut through these cozy domestic arrangements and free you for God. Well-meaning family members can be your worst enemies. If you prefer father or mother over me, you don't deserve me. If you prefer son or daughter over me, you don't deserve me.
Ref: Matthew 10:34-37, The Message

Jesus actually said this and you can check it out for yourself. However, Christian churches ignore this horrific verse and do not break up families - this although Jesus demanded it. Jesus did not want "well-meaning family members" getting in the way of a person's commitment to him. Christians, however, selectively apply scripture like all other religions. My point here is that many religious movements have brutal scriptures that force believers to separate themselves from non-believers. Scientology is hardly unique in this regard. This does not excuse its SP Doctrine, Disconnection, etc. but it shows that even the major religions do not brook dissent from within and will excommunicate people who do not agree. There have always been religious extremists, especially early in the history of a sect or a cult. This is why such groups have to moderate or become a fringe group that eventually disbands. The Church of Scientology is unique in that it has used religious brutality in uncommon and uncommonly expensive ways; most religions do not pursue outspoken former members or prominent critics and journalists with such pure hatred and an incredibly expensive private intelligence bureau.

Religious history argues that Scientology will continue to schism and that moderates will selectively apply scripture like all other religions. While Matthew 10:34-37 is part of Christianity's "SP Doctrine," while it is still a part of Holy Writ, it has been consigned to the dustbin in the everyday life of Christianity.

However, Christian Scientologist Pip may be forced to embrace Matthew 10:34-37 per the Data Series or whatever it is in CoS scripture that forces people to be insane and violent.


*****
Another example of where Scientology and Primitive Christianity align is in terms of beating people. Jesus said:

The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour of which he does not know, and will punish him and cut him off and assign his lot with the unfaithful.

And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act as he would wish him to act shall be beaten with many lashes.

But he who did not know and did things worthy of a beating shall be beaten with few lashes. For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required; and of him to whom men entrust much, they will require and demand all the more.
ref: Luke 12:46-48 The Amplified Bible.

Again, while still a part of Holy Writ, Luke 12:45-48 has also been consigned to the dustbin in the everyday life of Christianity. However, if the Christian Scientologist Pip needs a scriptural warrant to beat people he can quote this passage from Luke. He can then cite David Miscavige as his Scientology authority. In terms of justifying brutality, then, Pip has the best of both worlds as a Christian Scientologist. In this vein, David Miscavige would do well to become a Christian Scientologist.

*****
Pip, good luck on being a Christian Scientologist.

A few questions for you though: Are you using auditing because Christ's Salvation is inadequate to help you?

If Christ died for your sins, then what is auditing about for you?

Are you trying to audit away your sin nature because the Holy Spirit has somehow failed to impart Christ's nature into you?


/////
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Scientology and Primitive Christianity are compatible if one does a literal, fundamentalist reading of the New Testament. For example, the New Testament seeks to protects families except when Jesus decides that your family members are, err, suppressive and that disconnection is needed:


Ref: Matthew 10:34-37, The Message

Jesus actually said this and you can check it out for yourself. However, Christian churches ignore this horrific verse and do not break up families - this although Jesus demanded it. Jesus did not want "well-meaning family members" getting in the way of a person's commitment to him. Christians, however, selectively apply scripture like all other religions. My point here is that many religious movements have brutal scriptures that force believers to separate themselves from non-believers. Scientology is hardly unique in this regard. This does not excuse its SP Doctrine, Disconnection, etc. but it shows that even the major religions do not brook dissent from within and will excommunicate people who do not agree. There have always been religious extremists, especially early in the history of a sect or a cult. This is why such groups have to moderate or become a fringe group that eventually disbands. The Church of Scientology is unique in that it has used religious brutality in uncommon and uncommonly expensive ways; most religions do not pursue outspoken former members or prominent critics and journalists with such pure hatred and an incredibly expensive private intelligence bureau.

Religious history argues that Scientology will continue to schism and that moderates will selectively apply scripture like all other religions. Matthew 10:34-37 is part of Christianity's "SP Doctrine," is still a part of Holy Writ, and has been consigned to the dustbin in the everyday life of Christianity.

*****
Another example of where Scientology and Primitive Christianity align is in terms of beating people. Jesus said:


ref: Luke 12:46-48 The Amplified Bible.

*****
Pip, good luck on being a Christian Scientologist.

A few questions for you though: Are you using auditing because Christ's Salvation inadequate to help you?

If Christ died for your sins, then what is auditing about?

Are you trying to audit away your sin nature?


/////



Outstanding points!

Here is another stunning parallel between Primitive Christianity and Scientology policy.

Also, from the New Testament, in its original Greek transcription:

Ref: The Book of Revelation 10:13-21

Ο υπάλληλος θα φάει τα φασόλια και το ρύζι και τον ύπνο κάτω από το γραφείο και θα ριχτεί πετώ στη θάλασσα στη λίμνη των περιττωμάτων, και μετά θα γράψουν μια πετυχημένη ιστορία.


Translation: The servant shall eat beans and rice and sleep under the desk and be thrown overboard into the pond of feces, after which they shall write a success story.
 

Clarence Rockaway

Patron with Honors
Some interesting references there. I'm not sure how to interpret the ones from Matthew and Luke in a favourable way. I would be intersted in a practicing Christian's viewpoint on those.

Burning non-believers in John. I'm not buying that. He was cutting branches and burning them after they whithered. I wouldn't interpret that as burning non-believers.

Stealing Livestock in Luke. No, again the followers went there and his prediction was correct. The owners were aware of the transaction. There is no evidence that the followers beat up the owners or otherwise strong armed the deal.

So I'll give you 2 out of 4 valid problem areas. :thumbsup:

What's even more interesting is how come you're so knowledgable about the Bible.
In the Luke reference he sent two of his diciples to steal a colt. That's on him. As for knowing the Bible, as a Jew, I don't consider the New Testament the Bible. But waiving that point, I didn't know What's His Name Goldstein from 1984, so I have to know something, don't I?
 
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Bridge-it

New Member
Hey Pip, "So am I"
I have decided to "come out of the closet" since a guy from Canada phoned me as a result of my websites: www.christianscientology.info or www.christianscientology.co.uk I have not updated them for sometime but as a result of getting in com. with him it has encouraged me to persist.

I know some of you have a back-off from God and "all that", but on the basis of the "bigger the ARC the bigger the ARC break" I would rather be honest from the beginning than pretend I am something I am not.

I am "born again" and also "Clear" which I maintain is an unstoppable combination.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I don't personally feel Christianity and Scn are reconcilable, but then again, I kinda feel like it's Pip's (or any other Christian who may be interested in Scn) call to make.

Let's put it this way, though-- I don't think that if one were a total by the book purist of either modality, that the two would be reconcilable.
 

J. Swift

Patron with Honors
Translation: The servant shall eat beans and rice and sleep under the desk and be thrown overboard into the pond of feces, after which they shall write a success story.

You are quite the Greek exegete HelluvaHoax. I would add the Book of San Jacinto 2:15-20:
"And when the disciples were standing in muster, the Overseer read aloud crimes of masturbation obtained from the confessional papyri so that the Onanists in their midst would be ashamed of their acts of self-pollution.

"And it came to pass that the Overseer was caught with heathen porn in an act of self-pollution and was sent to the prison camp and beaten and his wages reduced to one penny per day.

"Yea, all were beaten in the camp daily save for the mad dictator who lived in a castle and smoked cigarettes and drank rivers of scotch as it pleased his soul. Verily, he sent away his wife into captivity and then had carnal knowledge of his assistant with no penalty. And he took great pleasure in his bed of tanning and his golden columns.

"He was the Lunatic Antichrist of Hemet.

"And when he grew angry he grabbed rods of copper that went down into the Earth after which he beat people because the voices in his head commanded him to do so."

/////
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Actually, I did mention it. So did Emma.

And, no, Hubbard did NOT say that "Jesus" was an implant. He said that CHRIST was. You are aware that Christ was not Jesus' name, right? It's a title. It means the Anointed one. The messiah, IOW.

Hubbard felt Jesus was just a man. Not that Jesus didn't exist.


I don't make a distinction between Jesus and Christ, and neither did Hubbard when he put forth this doctrine, I don't believe. I mean, come on, he knew who he was talking about, and so did everyone else that heard that.

And Laffy also stated that 'there was no man on the cross', so he also taught that Jesus the man never existed, or at the very least that the main part of the story never happened.

Well, he also came up with a bunch of slanders, also. Accusing him of pedophilia being one of the nastier ones.

The point is; the two religions are clearly incomparable, and claims to the contrary are just a huge, stinking, lie.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I don't make a distinction between Jesus and Christ, and neither did Hubbard when he put forth this doctrine, I don't believe. I mean, come on, he knew who he was talking about, and so did everyone else that heard that.

And Laffy also stated that 'there was no man on the cross', so he also taught that Jesus the man never existed, or at the very least that the main part of the story never happened.

Well, he also came up with a bunch of slanders, also. Accusing him of pedophilia being one of the nastier ones.

The point is; the two religions are clearly incomparable, and claims to the contrary are just a huge, stinking, lie.

But "Christ" was Jesus' TITLE, not his name. And Hubbard did NOT say "there was no man on the cross." That's not the quote.

He also said on some tape that Jesus was "messiah and that this means leader of men."

So clearly he thought Jesus might've existed but was not God. Either way, this does not work really well with a person's ability to reconcile Scn with Christianity but if Pip wants to do that, then it's fine with me.
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
But "Christ" was Jesus' TITLE, not his name. And Hubbard did NOT say "there was no man on the cross." That's not the quote.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure it is. I remember him saying just that. Does anyone have a link to the quote on this?

Besides; so what? Do you think anyone makes a distinction between 'Jesus' and 'Christ'? Not too many, I wouldn't think.

He also said on some tape that Jesus was "messiah and that this means leader of men."

So clearly he thought Jesus might've existed but was not God. Either way, this does not work really well with a person's ability to reconcile Scn with Christianity but if Pip wants to do that, then it's fine with me.

He contradicted himself on this. But, does it really matter? Whether he's calling J.C. a child molester, or saying the crucifixion was just an implant, it should be glaringly clear that you can't really reconcile the two religions.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
But "Christ" was Jesus' TITLE, not his name. And Hubbard did NOT say "there was no man on the cross." That's not the quote.

He also said on some tape that Jesus was "messiah and that this means leader of men."

So clearly he thought Jesus might've existed but was not God. Either way, this does not work really well with a person's ability to reconcile Scn with Christianity but if Pip wants to do that, then it's fine with me.
When we split hairs such as the purported Jesus/Christ differential we only lose track of what the essence of the investigation is about. It's about fraud and need not be sidetracked by flimsy semantics.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure it is. I remember him saying just that. Does anyone have a link to the quote on this?

"Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity.

The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified
."

http://www.sweenytod.com/cos/Sounds/index.html
(the actual sound file is on this same page as well.)

Besides; so what? Do you think anyone makes a distinction between 'Jesus' and 'Christ'? Not too many, I wouldn't think.



He contradicted himself on this. But, does it really matter? Whether he's calling J.C. a child molester, or saying the crucifixion was just an implant, it should be glaringly clear that you can't really reconcile the two religions.

Hubbard contradicted himself on LOTS of things. :duh:

Depending on what day he was speaking he might say "There was no Christ", but elsewhere he says:
"Here on Earth, there was undoubtably a Christ. One of the reasons he was ... he swept in so suddenly ah, and he, he would go forward so hard, is he had a good.
assist back of him in terms of an implant."

There is a sound file for that last quote in the same page I linked to above.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
You are quite the Greek exegete HelluvaHoax.


I would add the Book of San Jacinto 2:15-20://///

"And when the disciples were standing in muster, the Overseer read aloud crimes of masturbation obtained from the confessional papyri so that the Onanists in their midst would be ashamed of their acts of self-pollution.

"And it came to pass that the Overseer was caught with heathen porn in an act of self-pollution and was sent to the prison camp and beaten and his wages reduced to one penny per day.

"Yea, all were beaten in the camp daily save for the mad dictator who lived in a castle and smoked cigarettes and drank rivers of scotch as it pleased his soul. Verily, he sent away his wife into captivity and then had carnal knowledge of his assistant with no penalty. And he took great pleasure in his bed of tanning and his golden columns.

"He was the Lunatic Antichrist of Hemet.

"And when he grew angry he grabbed rods of copper that went down into the Earth after which he beat people because the voices in his head commanded him to do so."



:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

That evil dicktator grabbing his rod and beating is a nightmarish specter that I shall not easily forget.

However it pales in comparison to a passage from the Dead Sea Scrolls wherein The Beast revealed himself.

DeadSea_Scrolls.jpg


חיה רשעים שומן מן המערב עם שיער אדום והשיניים נרקבות עשיתי את המעשה לבוא עליהם ולדרוש 500,000 שקלים --- שמא לשחרר עליהם גופים שד אשר היה לחיות בתוך גופם לרדוף אותם לנצח. כאשר העם זעק בכאב, החיה בחוכמה הרגיע את רגשותיהם על ידי והתכסה בתחפושת מלח עליז מציע להם הנחה של עשרה אחוזים, אם הם שילמו מראש.


Translation: "A fat wicked Beast from the West with red hair and rotting teeth didst come upon them and demand 500,000 shekels---lest he set loose upon them demon entities which would live inside their bodies and haunt them for eternity. When the people cried out in anguish, the Beast cleverly soothed their feelings by cloaking himself in a jaunty sailor costume and offering them a ten percent discount if they paid in advance."
 
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Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Hubbard contradicted himself on LOTS of things. :duh:

Depending on what day he was speaking he might say "There was no Christ", but elsewhere he says:
"Here on Earth, there was undoubtably a Christ. One of the reasons he was ... he swept in so suddenly ah, and he, he would go forward so hard, is he had a good.
assist back of him in terms of an implant."

There is a sound file for that last quote in the same page I linked to above.

Thank you for those quotes and links, Type4.

He said, precisely 'There was no Christ'? Well, that alone should be enough to convince anyone of the incompatibility of the two faiths.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Thank you for those quotes and links, Type4.

He said, precisely 'There was no Christ'? Well, that alone should be enough to convince anyone of the incompatibility of the two faiths.


There's plenty of Hubbard's own words that would suffice to convince 99.5% of the population that Scientology is incompatible with ANY other religion.

For the other .5% they certainly have the right to believe what they want to believe..........as long as they don't harm others. I do have some concern though that promoting the idea that Scientology and Christianity are compatible CAN be harmful, and this can lead someone down a path of financial and spiritual bankruptcy, should they wander into a CoS. :omg:

This is the link below to the sound file in question - you can hear yourself what he says. It might be necessary to hear more of the tape to hear the context he was using at the time, as this is only a 10 second clip.

http://www.sweenytod.com/cos/Sounds/nochrist.wav

Here is a little more of the actual quote as transcribed on this page:

"Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don't think that it's an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied.

Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity.

The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified."


http://www.sweenytod.com/cos/Sounds/index.html

I believe that this was on the Class VIII "Assists" Tape
 
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