Karen de la Carriere YouTube Channel

[In present time]

we will never know what sort of person dm would have been had he not been brought up in scn. personally, i dont think he is the devil. i think he is applying policy.

 

[AnonKat]

we will never know what sort of person dm would have been had he not been brought up in scn. personally, i dont think he is the devil. i think he is applying policy.

NO, he is a little bastard, he will always be a smuck. In real life he would be the one that kills your cat for fun

 

[In present time]

NO, he is a little bastard, he will always be a smuck. In real life he would be the one that kills your cat for fun

how can we know that?

 

[Boojuum]

Hey Karen,

I have attached four pages from the lecture "Axioms 33-49", Oct 11, 1951 from the basics series called "Thought, Emotion and Effort".

I hope you read these carefully as they explain a lot. DM is the Sergeant. Who knows what went on behind closed doors when he was in his formative years working directly with Ron.

These pages explain the random beatings and slappings as depicted in Scott's, Jefferson Hawkins, Hana, Mike & Marty, Bruce Hines videos, etc.

These pages explain why the church is in a constant state of emergency. The war against the IRS, Drugs, Psych's, illiteracy, etc.

These pages explain the formation of the Sea Org navy, the 1965 KSW PL and all the PTS/SP hco pl's & hcob's

all for the blind obedience & thought stopping.

There's the flag which is LRH, scientology, ARC, etc which the public only see. And then there is DM the sergeant that SO peeps see..

That's excellent! In a few sentences, the real working philosophy of LRH is discribed. Thanks! It explains a great deal of Hubbard's modus operandi.

 

[Gib]

That's excellent! In a few sentences, the real working philosophy of LRH is discribed. Thanks! It explains a great deal of Hubbard's modus operandi.

yah, I know. I just wish people would read the attachments. But they don't seem too. You and Anonkat seem to be the only ones.

And I wish all SO members who worked closely with DM & LRH could read those few pages.

 

[kate8024]

we will never know what sort of person dm would have been had he not been brought up in scn. personally, i dont think he is the devil. i think he is applying policy.

Saying that around here will likely get you shot ;-)
Having said that - I agree that its impossible to know without somehow inventing a way to go to some alternate reality and test it. Its always possible that he would have acted similarly in any situation and also possible that he is purely a product of his environment - it might even be that he would be some awesome person without Scientology but we can't really know unfortunately.

 

[Purple Rain]

we will never know what sort of person dm would have been had he not been brought up in scn. personally, i dont think he is the devil. i think he is applying policy.

I think with these things it's always a combination of nature and nurture. I can never understand how anyone can argue for purely one or the other. And, yes, we will never know. Hubbard I think would always have been Hubbard. I can't see any glaring environmental factors that would have caused him to be that way. But like Jamie de Wolf, says, the psychiatrist asked him if mental illness ran in his family... and yeah. I think there was just a huge genetic component with Hubbard.

 

[Gib]

I think with these things it's always a combination of nature and nurture. I can never understand how anyone can argue for purely one or the other. And, yes, we will never know. Hubbard I think would always have been Hubbard. I can't see any glaring environmental factors that would have caused him to be that way. But like Jamie de Wolf, says, the psychiatrist asked him if mental illness ran in his family... and yeah. I think there was just a huge genetic component with Hubbard.

He certainly made his affirmations stick when you think about it. Smashing his name into history, men are his slaves, (even DM, the fool), etc.

As I've said before, it says HUBBARD Comunications Office Policy Letter.

 

[Udarnik]

I think with these things it's always a combination of nature and nurture. I can never understand how anyone can argue for purely one or the other. And, yes, we will never know. Hubbard I think would always have been Hubbard. I can't see any glaring environmental factors that would have caused him to be that way. But like Jamie de Wolf, says, the psychiatrist asked him if mental illness ran in his family... and yeah. I think there was just a huge genetic component with Hubbard.

But I always wonderd about Hubbard's childhood family life. It's obscured in mystery, but they swept a lot of shit under the carpet back then, and he didn't come up with all the misogyny, attempted abortions and such like, on his own. His dad was adopted, didn't have a drop of Hubbard blood in him, was the reason he was put up for adoption mental illness with the mother? I've always wondered.

But I think DM is a sociopath. I think he might have been not as bad, given another environment, but I don't think he'd ever be good. No one else out of those messengers in the same environment turned out nearly as bad. Though I'm not sure what Pat Broeker would have been like minus DM. I get this feeling DM is Stalin and Broeker would have been Trotsky - not as bad, but still ugly.

 

[Purple Rain]

But I always wonderd about Hubbard's childhood family life. It's obscured in mystery, but they swept a lot of shit under the carpet back then, and he didn't come up with all the misogyny, attempted abortions and such like, on his own. His dad was adopted, didn't have a drop of Hubbard blood in him, was the reason he was put up for adoption mental illness with the mother? I've always wondered.

But I think DM is a sociopath. I think he might have been not as bad, given another environment, but I don't think he'd ever be good. No one else out of those messengers in the same environment turned out nearly as bad. Though I'm not sure what Pat Broeker would have been like minus DM. I get this feeling DM is Stalin and Broeker would have been Trotsky - not as bad, but still ugly.

Well, as far as the environment goes, his father was quite liked and respected by people. Nibs had a lot of time for his grandfather and none for his father. You get the idea listening to Nibs that Hubbard was a huge disappointment to his own father - just the choices he made in life. It sounds like Hubbard's father was a really nice man, just going by what Nibs said.

 

[Udarnik]

Well, as far as the environment goes, his father was quite liked and respected by people. Nibs had a lot of time for his grandfather and none for his father. You get the idea listening to Nibs that Hubbard was a huge disappointment to his own father - just the choices he made in life. It sounds like Hubbard's father was a really nice man, just going by what Nibs said.

You are right, there. Nibs said his grandfather was true-blue USN, he made it as a Mustang all the way to O-5 in the Navy (no mean feat in those days of connections and what-school-did-you-attend), when Hubtard never got beyond O-2 despite coming in as an officer (actually O-2 was where he got in - lobbied for O-3, was denied and never made it there after attacking the Mexicans). I was shooting in the dark. Could have been the mother carrying the mental illness, could have been a spontaneous mutation - though THAT I doubt. I'd love to ask Jamie what they know about the great-grandparents.

 

[Purple Rain]

You are right, there. Nibs said his grandfather was true-blue USN, he made it as a Mustang all the way to O-5 in the Navy (no mean feat in those days of connections and what-school-did-you-attend), when Hubtard never got beyond O-2 despite coming in as an officer (actually O-2 was where he got in - lobbied for O-3, was denied and never made it there after attacking the Mexicans). I was shooting in the dark. Could have been the mother carrying the mental illness, could have been a spontaneous mutation - though THAT I doubt. I'd love to ask Jamie what they know about the great-grandparents.

That would be fascinating, yes. Do you know which side the red hair comes from?

 

[Udarnik]

That would be fascinating, yes. Do you know which side the red hair comes from?

Not a clue. Another good question. And I made a mistake above. Hubbard made it all the way to O-7 (now called Rear Admiral, Lower Half, but until 1985 called ..... Commodore).

But he needed to wait until he formed his own Navy!

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Karen - does one of your videos explain why Scott Campbell was the subject of all of this abuse? It can't all be because he wanted to leave the Ship for a family function can it? Are they that nuts?

Mimsey

 

[In present time]

You are right, there. Nibs said his grandfather was true-blue USN, he made it as a Mustang all the way to O-5 in the Navy (no mean feat in those days of connections and what-school-did-you-attend), when Hubtard never got beyond O-2 despite coming in as an officer (actually O-2 was where he got in - lobbied for O-3, was denied and never made it there after attacking the Mexicans). I was shooting in the dark. Could have been the mother carrying the mental illness, could have been a spontaneous mutation - though THAT I doubt. I'd love to ask Jamie what they know about the great-grandparents.

hubbards grandfather was adopted wasn't he? i always wanted to research that family line.

 

[In present time]

But I always wonderd about Hubbard's childhood family life. It's obscured in mystery, but they swept a lot of shit under the carpet back then, and he didn't come up with all the misogyny, attempted abortions and such like, on his own. His dad was adopted, didn't have a drop of Hubbard blood in him, was the reason he was put up for adoption mental illness with the mother? I've always wondered.

But I think DM is a sociopath. I think he might have been not as bad, given another environment, but I don't think he'd ever be good. No one else out of those messengers in the same environment turned out nearly as bad. Though I'm not sure what Pat Broeker would have been like minus DM. I get this feeling DM is Stalin and Broeker would have been Trotsky - not as bad, but still ugly.

ooohhh, so it was hubbards FATHER who was adopted? that would be some interesting research if we could know the family line of this father!

 

[AnonKat]

how can we know that?

there is a very good religian for that, knowing how to know

 

[Karen#1]

Karen - does one of your videos explain why Scott Campbell was the subject of all of this abuse? It can't all be because he wanted to leave the Ship for a family function can it? Are they that nuts?

Mimsey

Mimsey ~~

It all started with Scott having a mental breakdown. He lost it. This was after months and months of sleep deprivation. The "church" already knows that severe sleep deprivation causes mental breakdowns, it has dealt with its own OSA Legal WUS staff going "Type III" because of enforced no sleep, but it has continued to do it. It is defined by CIA as a type of torture. What they did with Scott, in embarassment of his condition, is CONFINE and ISOLATE him. Then the story continues. I did write Scott with you query and here's his direct response ~~​

Mimsey,

I started getting pretty noisy about all of the outpoints I was seeing on the ship, in the Sea Org and in the Church of Scientology as a whole. I was questioning too many people and threatening to expose the whole thing as a scam. That, combined with ‘Showing up” COB several times was enough to seal my fate. The next thing that happened was that Owen Starkey torpedoed me with Black Dianetics. CO CMO Ship Jennifer Alpers already new that he had done it when I told her about it later. I can only surmise that it was an intentional attack intended to break me mentally. It wasn’t until the last couple of months when Griffey Blythe (AOLA Snr C/S) changed the people “guarding” me that I actually got some help.

One of these days I’ll get the whole story out there and it will fill in the blanks.

L, Scott

P.S. Btw, yes they are that nuts. ​

 

[WildKat]

Mimsey ~~

It all started with Scott having a mental breakdown. He lost it. This was after months and months of sleep deprivation. The "church" already knows that severe sleep deprivation causes mental breakdowns, it has dealt with its own OSA Legal WUS staff going "Type III" because of enforced no sleep, but it has continued to do it. It is defined by CIA as a type of torture. What they did with Scott, in embarassment of his condition, is CONFINE and ISOLATE him. Then the story continues. I did write Scott with you query and here's his direct response ~~​

Mimsey,

I started getting pretty noisy about all of the outpoints I was seeing on the ship, in the Sea Org and in the Church of Scientology as a whole. I was questioning too many people and threatening to expose the whole thing as a scam. That, combined with ‘Showing up” COB several times was enough to seal my fate. The next thing that happened was that Owen Starkey torpedoed me with Black Dianetics. CO CMO Ship Jennifer Alpers already new that he had done it when I told her about it later. I can only surmise that it was an intentional attack intended to break me mentally. It wasn’t until the last couple of months when Griffey Blythe (AOLA Snr C/S) changed the people “guarding” me that I actually got some help.

One of these days I’ll get the whole story out there and it will fill in the blanks.

L, Scott

P.S. Btw, yes they are that nuts. ​

Would love to hear the stories about "showing up COB" !

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Mimsey ~~

It all started with Scott having a mental breakdown. He lost it. ... I did write Scott with you query and here's his direct response ~~​

Mimsey,

I started getting pretty noisy about all of the outpoints I was seeing on the ship, in the Sea Org and in the Church of Scientology as a whole. I was questioning too many people and threatening to expose the whole thing as a scam. ... One of these days I’ll get the whole story out there and it will fill in the blanks.

L, Scott

P.S. Btw, yes they are that nuts. ​

Dear Karen and Scott - thank you very much for taking the time to respond. It makes the whole story more relevant, because I didn't have a clue why this was happening to Scott. Even knowing the why, it boggles the mind that they thought this was the correct way to "handle" Scott. Well, I guess we aren't in Kansas anymore, Toto. Thanks again,

Mimsey