TrevAnon
Big List researcher
I just got confirmation from the list admin that all the quotes we use are on the way back machine. Looks like there is no need to scratch names.
Marty Rathbun raises his head, and starts squawking
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Veda
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These guys, as you noted, included Mike Rinder who remained in till 2008.
______
From December 2012. It's a reminder of Mike Rinder's expressed views (and, although he's absent from the quotes, also Marty Rathbun's expressed views) a relatively short time ago.
"He didn't know."
mrinder December 17, 2012 at 1:11 am
Not sure where you get your information from that LRH approved operations against Paulette Cooper or Gabe Cazares? Or are you asserting this based on the logic of “it was his organization so therefore he knew”?
mrinder December 17, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Clearly you didnt know Mary Sue Hubbard. If you had you would understand how silly this is. He is the LAST person on earth she would tell about illegal actions. Your assumptions are just that, and certainly not based on anything other than “Most dogs are brown. He has a dog. Therefore his dog is brown.” The outpoint in your conclusion is “assume similarities are not similar.”
mrinder December 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Yeah, that’s Tonja Burden. Who filed a civil case trying to collect money. There was TONS of shredding done in the paranoia to eradicate anything that gave ANY connection between LRH and the GO. It was nuts and unreal. But I do not believe ANY documents ever indicated any connection between LRH and an “operative” doing some illegal act.
But this is a debate that is pointless continuing. It’s unprovable either way. And no matter what I say, it won’t satisfy those who wish to believe otherwise.
Not sure where you get your information from that LRH approved operations against Paulette Cooper or Gabe Cazares? Or are you asserting this based on the logic of “it was his organization so therefore he knew”?
mrinder December 17, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Clearly you didnt know Mary Sue Hubbard. If you had you would understand how silly this is. He is the LAST person on earth she would tell about illegal actions. Your assumptions are just that, and certainly not based on anything other than “Most dogs are brown. He has a dog. Therefore his dog is brown.” The outpoint in your conclusion is “assume similarities are not similar.”
mrinder December 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Yeah, that’s Tonja Burden. Who filed a civil case trying to collect money. There was TONS of shredding done in the paranoia to eradicate anything that gave ANY connection between LRH and the GO. It was nuts and unreal. But I do not believe ANY documents ever indicated any connection between LRH and an “operative” doing some illegal act.
But this is a debate that is pointless continuing. It’s unprovable either way. And no matter what I say, it won’t satisfy those who wish to believe otherwise.
______
Then March 2014. A change - and Marty started changing around this time also.
mrinder on March 11, 2014 at 1:48 pm
< snip >
Just for starters, DM most certainly was Action Chief CMO Int. For MANY years. It was where he gained the trust of LRH and LRH started calling him “Misc” and addressing despatches to him that way. One of the few people that LRH addressed on despatches with cc’s to their nickname. Miscavige was NOT Mission IC of “Special Project”, Terri Gamboa was. Miscavige was “Special Pjt Ops” (as in Mission Operator).
Ron absolutely abolished the GO. The Exec Strata was formed and the issues written about it before the formation of OSA. I had personal conversations with LRH about the disbandment of the GO and his desire to see it eradicated entirely as it had become a liability. You do not think that the GO was disbanded without his knowledge and Guardian PL canceled etc etc etc. Where are the docs? They don’t exist, remember, LRH was trying to avoid being connected in any way to the actions of the GO or Mary Sue, he was an unindicted co-conspirator.
Nothing was in writing. And though he had expressed a LOT of disgust about the GO during the “Confront of Evil” period and the formation of the Office of Evaluation and Execution, where it came up routinely that GO staff were employing org staff in their personal business, the reason for disbanding the GO was that they were not protecting him from criminal and civil liability. He considered they had betrayed him (inclusive of Mary Sue).
The idea that he knew nothing about Snow White and the illegal acts that were ongoing is tantamount to saying L. Ron Hubbard was blind, unaware and incapable of spotting an outpoint. That was NOT the case. He was briefed by Mary Sue every single day at lunch during the heyday of the GO Ops — in detail. If she didnt tell him “Joe Blow infiltrated the IRS and got documents” she told him what they knew (if you don’t believe he expected to be briefed about everything the GO was doing, then you also give him less credit than he deserved, he was not one not to be curious) and he would have figured it out. Believe me, the programs and actions written to implement Snow White WERE know[n] and authorized all the way to the top.
LRH directed exactly what was to be done at the Mission Holders Conference in SFO following the one in Clearwater. The whole thing was recorded so it could be sent to him. He listened to it, sent Miscavige and the others commendations and ordered that the entire transcript be published.
______
The only explanation for the change was a change in what Mike Rinder was willing to say. In the top quote he's covering for Ron Hubbard. And Marty was right there with him, lying with him, as recently as 2012 and beyond.
In the bottom quote, Mike Rinder changed, and he's no longer covering for Ron Hubbard.
Marty changed too, at about the same time, except that, in late 2015, he was grabbed by one of Scientology's long tentacles and pulled back into the beast.
HelluvaHoax!
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These guys, as you noted, included Mike Rinder who remained in till 2008.
______
From December 2012. It's a reminder of Mike Rinder's expressed views (and, although he's absent from the quotes, also Marty Rathbun's expressed views) a relatively short time ago.
"He didn't know."
mrinder December 17, 2012 at 1:11 am
Not sure where you get your information from that LRH approved operations against Paulette Cooper or Gabe Cazares? Or are you asserting this based on the logic of “it was his organization so therefore he knew”?
mrinder December 17, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Clearly you didnt know Mary Sue Hubbard. If you had you would understand how silly this is. He is the LAST person on earth she would tell about illegal actions. Your assumptions are just that, and certainly not based on anything other than “Most dogs are brown. He has a dog. Therefore his dog is brown.” The outpoint in your conclusion is “assume similarities are not similar.”
mrinder December 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Yeah, that’s Tonja Burden. Who filed a civil case trying to collect money. There was TONS of shredding done in the paranoia to eradicate anything that gave ANY connection between LRH and the GO. It was nuts and unreal. But I do not believe ANY documents ever indicated any connection between LRH and an “operative” doing some illegal act.
But this is a debate that is pointless continuing. It’s unprovable either way. And no matter what I say, it won’t satisfy those who wish to believe otherwise.
______
Then March 2014. A change - and Marty started changing around this time also.
mrinder on March 11, 2014 at 1:48 pm
< snip >
Just for starters, DM most certainly was Action Chief CMO Int. For MANY years. It was where he gained the trust of LRH and LRH started calling him “Misc” and addressing despatches to him that way. One of the few people that LRH addressed on despatches with cc’s to their nickname. Miscavige was NOT Mission IC of “Special Project”, Terri Gamboa was. Miscavige was “Special Pjt Ops” (as in Mission Operator).
Ron absolutely abolished the GO. The Exec Strata was formed and the issues written about it before the formation of OSA. I had personal conversations with LRH about the disbandment of the GO and his desire to see it eradicated entirely as it had become a liability. You do not think that the GO was disbanded without his knowledge and Guardian PL canceled etc etc etc. Where are the docs? They don’t exist, remember, LRH was trying to avoid being connected in any way to the actions of the GO or Mary Sue, he was an unindicted co-conspirator.
Nothing was in writing. And though he had expressed a LOT of disgust about the GO during the “Confront of Evil” period and the formation of the Office of Evaluation and Execution, where it came up routinely that GO staff were employing org staff in their personal business, the reason for disbanding the GO was that they were not protecting him from criminal and civil liability. He considered they had betrayed him (inclusive of Mary Sue).
The idea that he knew nothing about Snow White and the illegal acts that were ongoing is tantamount to saying L. Ron Hubbard was blind, unaware and incapable of spotting an outpoint. That was NOT the case. He was briefed by Mary Sue every single day at lunch during the heyday of the GO Ops — in detail. If she didnt tell him “Joe Blow infiltrated the IRS and got documents” she told him what they knew (if you don’t believe he expected to be briefed about everything the GO was doing, then you also give him less credit than he deserved, he was not one not to be curious) and he would have figured it out. Believe me, the programs and actions written to implement Snow White WERE know[n] and authorized all the way to the top.
LRH directed exactly what was to be done at the Mission Holders Conference in SFO following the one in Clearwater. The whole thing was recorded so it could be sent to him. He listened to it, sent Miscavige and the others commendations and ordered that the entire transcript be published.
______
The only explanation for the change was a change in what Mike Rinder was willing to say. In the top quote he's covering for Ron Hubbard. And Marty was right there with him, lying with him, as recently as 2012 and beyond.
In the bottom quote, Mike Rinder changed, and he's no longer covering for Ron Hubbard.
Marty changed too, at about the same time, except that, in late 2015, he was grabbed by one of Scientology's long tentacles and pulled back into the beast.
That was a really excellent historically insightful recap--made even better by your compiling the "early" and "later" verbatim statements by Mike Rinder!
The "earlier" quotes were filled with a curious series of rhetorical "TELLS"--a drilled method of answering incriminating questions with polished ambiguity and equivocation. It's every bit as obvious as a crime scene investigator's "Luminol" that signals a positive for the presence of crime scene blood with a glowing luminescence.
In that sense, Mike Rinder's responses (back in the early days after his departure from the COS) were "lit up" like the 4th of July fireworks from all the tortured evasive rhetoric. LOL
It's great that Rinder found his way through the labyrinth so that he could fully exit the cult.
Veda
Sponsor
[video=youtube;k1fj3WRCrzo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1fj3WRCrzo[/video]
The Scientology group STAND is quite preoccupied with Leah Remini:
https://www.standleague.org/bigotry-and-hate/exposed/leah-remini.html
And there's lots more.
Handy form for those who want to report hate speech:
https://www.standleague.org/take-action/report/combat-hate.html
The Scientology group STAND is quite preoccupied with Leah Remini:
https://www.standleague.org/bigotry-and-hate/exposed/leah-remini.html
And there's lots more.
Handy form for those who want to report hate speech:
https://www.standleague.org/take-action/report/combat-hate.html
______
"The only safe public opinion to head for is they love us and are in a frenzy of hate against the enemy." L. Ron Hubbard, Battle Tactics.
"The only safe public opinion to head for is they love us and are in a frenzy of hate against the enemy." L. Ron Hubbard, Battle Tactics.
TrevAnon
Big List researcher
Guess that's about the same as using the official RTC KR form on the COS site
REMOVE SPACES htt ps://www. rtc.org/rep orts/form/index.html?locale=en
ExposedPerfidy
Patron
It seems as if Marty is going to go through Aftermath episode by episode, which would suggest that tomorrow's video will be about Mary Kahn. I'll repost her comment from Mike's blog:
EDIT: I just realized Kahn was on the third episode of Aftermarth, not the second. I'm guessing she will be mentioned in the video after tomorrow.
EDIT: I just realized Kahn was on the third episode of Aftermarth, not the second. I'm guessing she will be mentioned in the video after tomorrow.
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TrevAnon
Big List researcher
GrangerFX on the Underground Bunker http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/25/cl...other-howdycon-highlights/#comment-3385138631
[FONT="]Marty has a simple message to all Scientologists:[/FONT]
[FONT="]"Read Going Clear, look at Tony and Mike's blogs and watch Aftermath on A&E ... So you know what the F I am talking about."
(End quote)
This may be an interesting theory: [/FONT]
Marty using vids to get the last of the scientologists out by pointing them to all the stuff out there. 
[FONT="]Marty has a simple message to all Scientologists:[/FONT]
[FONT="]"Read Going Clear, look at Tony and Mike's blogs and watch Aftermath on A&E ... So you know what the F I am talking about."
(End quote)
This may be an interesting theory: [/FONT]
Marty using vids to get the last of the scientologists out by pointing them to all the stuff out there. 
Terril park
Sponsor
His blog is still up at 7pm in the UK.
Gib
Crusader
going back down memory lane, this post by Marty back in Mar 17, 2014 is interesting as well as Mike Rinder's post
https://markrathbun.blog/2014/03/17/scientology-black-bag-roster/
snip from it:
"Another important operative historically has been John J. (aka J.J.) Gaw of Moreno Valley, California. Gaw was responsible for the original electronic and physical surveillance set up on Pat Broeker in the late eighties and early nineties. Mr. Gaw also handled the sensitive assignment of investigating the personal lives of IRS agents, flanking the quest to attain tax exemption for Scientology."
Here is Mike Rinder post. it's just interesting to read again since much has happened since then:
http://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/
https://markrathbun.blog/2014/03/17/scientology-black-bag-roster/
snip from it:
"Another important operative historically has been John J. (aka J.J.) Gaw of Moreno Valley, California. Gaw was responsible for the original electronic and physical surveillance set up on Pat Broeker in the late eighties and early nineties. Mr. Gaw also handled the sensitive assignment of investigating the personal lives of IRS agents, flanking the quest to attain tax exemption for Scientology."
Here is Mike Rinder post. it's just interesting to read again since much has happened since then:
http://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
OSA has developed devious Blinky TRs from secret lawyer tech - you need special glasses to watch that stuff safely!
WhatWall
Silver Meritorious Patron
Still up in the U.S. at 11 AM PST.
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
GrangerFX on the Underground Bunker http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/25/cl...other-howdycon-highlights/#comment-3385138631
[FONT=&]Marty has a simple message to all Scientologists:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]"Read Going Clear, look at Tony and Mike's blogs and watch Aftermath on A&E ... So you know what the F I am talking about."
(End quote)
This may be an interesting theory: [/FONT]
I agree with this basic idea. Intentionally or not - the net effect of Marty's vids is to direct people to info sources that tell the truth about Scientology's abuses more than any misdirection.
EDIT: But to be fair, as I recall LRH said essentially the same thing about negative news - that it only helped Scientology by making people curious about it and stats always spiked up dramatically after a negative news story.
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Veda
Sponsor
Apparently, Scientology Inc. had made quite a few videos featuring people who knew Leah Remini and, now, are willing to be videoed saying she's a bad person. I'm not sure where one can find the complete collection.
Notice the video quality and the visual similarities to the recent Marty videos.
[video=youtube;nsE3Pc16z4E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsE3Pc16z4E[/video]
Notice the video quality and the visual similarities to the recent Marty videos.
[video=youtube;nsE3Pc16z4E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsE3Pc16z4E[/video]
TrevAnon
Big List researcher
Leah hate site; REMOVE SPACES htt p://ww w.leahreminiaft ermath.com/videos/
John McGhee
Patron
Yes, its "The Truth Network" https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEdzK6VibI80vlYWnd9tfUQ
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
I left Mike's name out of my narrative, which I've posted half a dozen times before. But yes, he too.
Just for the record, I've also asked Mike to name names of the main central core of conspirators
who invented all the "official shore stories" post-1986 and he wouldn't name them either.
Oh, well. Ex-Int management probably feel some things are better left unsaid.
Only expectation I have of finding out the truth of what really happened behind closed doors
back then is Jesse Prince's upcoming book, if it ever gets published. We'll see.
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
My leaker has come through again with a test shot.
Originally, they had Jim dressed in brown but felt a blue coat
would look better on him for the final shoot. I agree.
:wink2:
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
.
I used to love and trust Leah.
But not after learning the horrible truth from these briefing videos!
I used to love and trust Leah.
But not after learning the horrible truth from these briefing videos!
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
When a lawyer named Yingling tells lies up the YingYang...
.
More excellent r-factors. . .
.
More excellent r-factors. . .
Veda
Sponsor
I left Mike's name out of my narrative, which I've posted half a dozen times before. But yes, he too.
Just for the record, I've also asked Mike to name names of the main central core of conspirators
who invented all the "official shore stories" post-1986 and he wouldn't name them either.
Oh, well. Ex-Int management probably feel some things are better left unsaid.
Only expectation I have of finding out the truth of what really happened behind closed doors
back then is Jesse Prince's upcoming book, if it ever gets published. We'll see.
Well, this addresses one of the shore stories, although no names are mentioned.
Part 6 of the 1999 BBC program 'Secret Lives' about L. Ron Hubbard:
[video=youtube;FS9ccsUMPBk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS9ccsUMPBk#t=239[/video]
At 2:08, Robert Vaughn Young tells of Hubbard's final years. At 3:13, Young describes the invention of the shore story re. Hubbard's death. The "description of Hubbard given to" Young "by one of his guardians," was likely given to him by Pat Broeker, who RV Young had known, and worked with, for years, last talking to Broeker by phone after Broeker had left Scientology.
Young left Scientology in 1989.
- Status
