New SP Times article: Former Scientology insiders describe a world of coercion

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Hm, isn't mommy dearest, the aging actress, one of his ardent supporters? Regardless, Tommy was born in and with a silver anal-probe dutifully inserted, I'd be surprised if he lasted a week in the real world and had to actually do a real job before bawwing his way back in. He has always struck me as an arrogant, nasty/whiney, cult toady, with his nose well buried up Miscavige's crusty hole. A great spokes-person for the cult who has done nearly as much damage to It as the first wave of Anons did, only from the inside.Go Tommeh Go!:p


WHY TOMMY DAVIS CANNOT BLOW: Because he already is blown. From reality. Unfortunately, Scientologists are painstakingly indoctrinated on their bridge to only blow things--charge, engrams, bt's et al. They never did TR-U. The training drill that teaches one how to Unblow.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Veda, I could care less if Gerry broke the contract he signed with the Church of Scientology.

What I care about is that Gerry lies about it and has lied about it for decades.

Gerry attacks LRH, Scientology, the Indies, the courts, and all of his real and imagined enemies as liars - and yet he has spent decades lying about the facts in his case.

Gerry is a pathological liar when it comes to his legal case. He is no different than LRH in this regard.


/////

What's with all the Gerry bashing? :confused2:

No doubt there are hidden personal agendas at work here that I and most others know nothing about but I am personally grateful for what Gerry has done to expose the abuses of Hubbard and scientology. As I am to anyone who does so, even at times the M&M show.

Can we keep it civil please?
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm just curious, years ago I vaguely recalled J.Swift as an OCMB poster who recognized the cult of Scientology for what it was - an evil, ridiculous con job created by a 3rd rate sci-fi hack with naraccistic and pathological lying tendencies.

When I started reading the boards again J.Swift is a LRH apologist on the bandwagon with the marcabians and all the other hilarious space opera claptrap and the M&M shows biggest rabid fanboy.

At first I thought there must be 2 J.Swifts but now I'm guessing it's either a head injury or a invasion of the body snatchers scenario.

Was JS once a dyed in the wool cultie, finally opened his eyes and became a vocal critic but then was recovered back to the cult mindset via the indies? I just dnt get how anyone can do this type of 180 - except those who were hardcore Scios whose reality was shattered by truth or abuse via the cult but as soon as they can rationalize it (via Martyworld or whatever method) run back into the warm cocoon on Scientology where they once again firmly believe they have the only workable tech in the universe (I.e. Have all the answers) just like all the other religious nut jobs in the world.
 

J. Swift

Patron with Honors
Nothing to worry about Bunny Skull. My credentials as a critic remain intact. I was even photographed along with other critics and Indies by the OSA spies at Janet Reitman's recent book signing here in Los Angeles.

I got off the bus at a different station than those critics who will never accept Scientology in any form.

I don't see Indie Scientology as any kind of threat. Gerry and Caroline and other critics do. That is why many of us who are Scientology critics are engaging in an extended debate over Indie Scientology.

I am waiting for <deleted - doxing Veda> to weigh in on the matter of Indie Scientology. AFAIK, there has been no word from <deleted - doxing Veda> since <deleted - doxing Veda>.

/////
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
Nothing to worry about Bunny Skull. My credentials as a critic remain intact. I was even photographed along with other critics and Indies by the OSA spies at Janet Reitman's recent book signing here in Los Angeles.

I got off the bus at a different station than those critics who will never accept Scientology in any form.

I don't see Indie Scientology as any kind of threat. Gerry and Caroline and other critics do. That is why many of us who are Scientology critics are engaging in an extended debate over Indie Scientology.

Let's get rid of the official Church of Scientology as Target One! ("target one" :hysterical:)

Once that is truly done, then whatever "threat" the "indies" might have could be re-evaluated and dealt with accordingly. Then a "Target Two" ("target two" :hysterical:) might be considered. As I see it, the ONLY "threat" of the "indies" is if Marty is actually part of a C of S OSA covert operation (unlikey but possible), and who might act at some future date to try to "bring back all his followers" to some "kinder and gentler Church of Scientology" in some charade where Miscavige is "thrown to the wolves". But other than that hypothetical scenario, my view has always been to let people think and do whatever they like as long as they do NOT hurt anybody. That applies as much for any "Free Zone Scientologist" as it does to my Christian or New Age neighbors.

People can interpret anything to be just about anything, and while some do that to "bad" results, some do that to "good results". And, they can do so with some of the ideas of Christianity or with some of the ideas of Scientology.

And, it really doesn't matter if some person will "never accept Scientology in any form". That is just an IDEA in their heads. That is some IDEA or stance they choose to identify with and flaunt (i.e the "ego" making noise). No matter what such people think, believe and assert, there will ALWAYS be at least some others who DO "accept Scientology in some form". All of the "refusing to accept" never really gets outside of the heads of people who are still obsessed with Scientology (in a negative manner).

As long as people don't hurt others following their beliefs, of what concern is it to ANYBODY? But then, some people have a tendency NOT to "mind their own business".
 
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anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Nothing to worry about Bunny Skull. My credentials as a critic remain intact. I was even photographed along with other critics and Indies by the OSA spies at Janet Reitman's recent book signing here in Los Angeles.

I got off the bus at a different station than those critics who will never accept Scientology in any form.

I don't see Indie Scientology as any kind of threat. Gerry and Caroline and other critics do. That is why many of us who are Scientology critics are engaging in an extended debate over Indie Scientology.

I am waiting for Byran Ambry to weigh in on the matter of Indie Scientology. AFAIK, there has been no word from Ambry since Madman or Messiah in 1996.

/////



What's disturbing is not who you support or why you support them, but that you are aiming constantly and consistently at Veda, in such a distinctly self important and puffed up way that it makes me wonder where Marty ends and you begin.

That is why many of us who are Scientology critics are engaging in an extended debate over Indie Scientology.

I sit in awe at your intellectual extended debates on Indies. Good for you!
I hope you win the coveted Chief Critic Meritorius Medal for 2011. Really changing the world for the better aren't you.

I don't care what you think of Veda, who you think Veda is, or why.
Veda has consistently supplied information in a plain straightforward manner.

It may be repetitive to old hands but it isn't for the newly lurking.

These repeatedly snarky digs are pointlessly silly.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I don't care what you think of Veda, who you think Veda is, or why.

Veda has consistently supplied information in a plain straightforward manner.

It may be repetitive to old hands but it isn't for the newly lurking.

These repeatedly snarky digs are pointlessly silly.

THAT! ^^^^^^ :thumbsup:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Let's get rid of the official Church of Scientology as Target One! ("target one" :hysterical:)

Once that is truly done, then whatever "threat" the "indies" might have could be re-evaluated and dealt with accordingly. Then a "Target Two" ("target two" :hysterical:) might be considered.

-snip-

What Marty Rathbun&Friends are doing is largely a PR action to rehabilitate the image and reputation of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard. PR actions don't pose any "threat," except, in this case, to the selected scapegoat, Miscavige, the "Anti-Christ of Scientology."

No Ex Scientologist or "wog," of which I know, is seriously attempting to stop Marty&Friends from doing what they please.

From Marty's Rathbun blog:

"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any other civilian figure. One cumulative effect of it all was to one degree or another de-humanize him in the public eye. We see remnants of those effects to this day. Tony Ortega has even come to the conclusion that my mission -and the mission of many independents - is made hopeless by this historical landscape. The landscape is not easy to conceptualize given its long lived nature and Miscavige's daily efforts to make the myths a reality. Providing context to the entire picture is a long term project that I never lose sight of, but unfortunately I have not found the time to devote to it that it deserves..."

And,

"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has continually given little interest or funds for defending public relations attacks on L. Ron Hubbard."

Marty&Mike and other Independent Scientologists are doing an, apparently, self-assigned PR action for the religion-angled, religion-cloaked, cult of Hubbard, which, ultimately, includes both the CofS Scientology and outside the CofS Scientology, a.k.a. "Greater Scientology."

"Greater Scientology" - currently having a very visible PR feud - has finally found an effective "button" to push with which to apply the following "LRH datum." That button is the "Church" of Scientology as run by David Miscavige:

"The objective is to be identified as attackers of popularly considered evils [Miscavige, and Miscavology, i.e. perverted or 'Reverse Scientology']. This declassifies us from former labels [Unpopular nutty cult]. It reclassifies our attackers [Miscavige and the 'Reverse Scientologists'] as evil people."

Confidential 'Black Propaganda' 12 January 1972

Below is a reminder of the Independent Scientology "reality" circa 2011:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, “OT I and OT II are of little importance”: especially coming from “Class VIIIs”,”Class VIs” and folks claiming to be “trained by Ron.” They may as well be saying “Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron.”

"...Cleaning up the image and damage that Miscavige has created for Scientology is not very difficult absent his gargantuan efforts to disrupt such work..."

Etc.

The corporate Hubbard cult, best known as the "Church of Scientology," isn't going to go away any time soon, however, Miscavige will eventually go away, one way or another. When that happens, the "Wogs" (so the idea goes) will have been softened up by the application of the above LRH Propaganda Tech "datum."

What's so irritating to the Independent Scientology PR department is that that simple detail is being noted.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
What Marty Rathbun&Friends are doing is largely a PR action to rehabilitate the image and reputation of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard. PR actions don't pose any "threat," except, in this case, to the selected scapegoat, Miscavige, the "Anti-Christ of Scientology."

No Ex Scientologist or "wog," of which I know, is seriously attempting to stop Marty&Friends from doing what they please.

From Marty's Rathbun blog:

"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any other civilian figure. One cumulative effect of it all was to one degree or another de-humanize him in the public eye. We see remnants of those effects to this day. Tony Ortega has even come to the conclusion that my mission -and the mission of many independents - is made hopeless by this historical landscape. The landscape is not easy to conceptualize given its long lived nature and Miscavige's daily efforts to make the myths a reality. Providing context to the entire picture is a long term project that I never lose sight of, but unfortunately I have not found the time to devote to it that it deserves..."

And,

"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has continually given little interest or funds for defending public relations attacks on L. Ron Hubbard."

Marty&Mike and other Independent Scientologists are doing an, apparently, self-assigned PR action for the religion-angled, religion-cloaked, cult of Hubbard, which, ultimately, includes both the CofS Scientology and outside the CofS Scientology, a.k.a. "Greater Scientology."

"Greater Scientology" - currently having a very visible PR feud - has finally found an effective "button" to push with which to apply the following "LRH datum." That button is the "Church" of Scientology as run by David Miscavige:

"The objective is to be identified as attackers of popularly considered evils [Miscavige, and Miscavology, i.e. perverted or 'Reverse Scientology']. This declassifies us from former labels [Unpopular nutty cult]. It reclassifies our attackers [Miscavige and the 'Reverse Scientologists'] as evil people."

Confidential 'Black Propaganda' 12 January 1972

Below is a reminder of the Independent Scientology "reality" circa 2011:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, “OT I and OT II are of little importance”: especially coming from “Class VIIIs”,”Class VIs” and folks claiming to be “trained by Ron.” They may as well be saying “Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron.”

"...Cleaning up the image and damage that Miscavige has created for Scientology is not very difficult absent his gargantuan efforts to disrupt such work..."

Etc.

The corporate Hubbard cult, best known as the "Church of Scientology," isn't going to go away any time soon, however, Miscavige will eventually go away, one way or another. When that happens, the "Wogs" (so the idea goes) will have been softened up by the application of the above LRH Propaganda Tech "datum."

What's so irritating to the Independent Scientology PR department is that that simple detail is being noted.

Great points Veda!

There is no doubt that many of the recent articles or books that Marty has been a part of, or has influenced, have incorrectly minimized and reduced the complicity of L. Ron Hubbard in all the many evils of the modern Church of Scientology. Marty aims to ignore, neglect and take attention AWAY from the FACT that just about every "bad" behavior of the Church of Scientology is based on EXACT LRH REFERENCES.

Yes, he does seem to be succeeding to some degree in doing that. I think what may be missed though is that most "wogs" don't differentiate between "Miscavige's Scientology" and "Scientology". To them it as ALL nuts. Thank the Lord for A=A=A!

It does amaze me that some people buy into and accept the notion that "all of the bad" is due to Miscavige and NOT fundamentally rooted in Hubbard's own intentions, plans, programs, policies, orders and advices, because the evidence is extensive, simple and clear (to all but the most over-indoctrinated Ronbot). As I see it, these people are the types who still want to "believe the dream", and who do NOT want their delusion to yet be shattered by the intrusion of actual facts upon their crazy Scientology-based belief structure. Marty appeals to THOSE types especially.

The ONLY thing that can effectively neutralize such blatant PR shenanigans is to constantly post and get out there TRUE LIFE examples where people have been harmed, manipulated, tricked, lied to, and decieved through the exact application of RON'S DIRECTIVES TO DO SO.

That is why I often provide examples of "hard sell", "disconnection", "ruin-finding", "manipulative use of ARC to bring about agreement with falsehoods", or OSA tactics while also clearly showing the LRH reference that is being directly applied.

A perfect example is how Marty is being harrassed by the "Squirrel Busters". That is classic, 100% application of "standard LRH policies" on "handling critics", "conducting noisy investigations", and caving in "enemies" through incessant over-the-top impingement of PC folder data and other sordid information.

What is being done to Marty is NOT unique to Miscavige, and is based ENTIRELY on LRH's recommendations on how to address and handle ANY "enemy". Granted, Marty seems to be getting a "lighter touch" than even Anon Sparrow recently underwent, but THAT might be because Miscavige and Marty have so MUCH dirt on the other, or that Marty actually is an OSA Op (whcih I sort of doubt, but anything is possible in the deceptive world of Scientology OSA misrepresentation of reality so as to achieve some goal).

Thank-you for continuing to post Hubbard's own words and PR tactics. For some people such FACTS may only finally sink in after much repetition.

Number of times over material equals certainty!!!!! :biggrin:

Oh, about "the good name of L. Ron Hubbard":

:hysterical:

That Marty or anyone else could actually be seriously concerned with such a significance as "Hubbard's good name" is truly mind-boggling to me (but then I AM a "Declared SP" in the fullest sense of the term, meaning any person "publicly departing Scientology" or behaving with "actions or ommissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology or Scientologists).

Suppressing, reducing or impeding Scientology sounds VERY good to me! :happydance: :happydance: :biggrin: :thumbsup:
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Great points Veda!

There is no doubt that many of the recent articles or books that Marty has been a part of, or has influenced, have incorrectly minimized and reduced the complicity of L. Ron Hubbard in all the many evils of the modern Church of Scientology. Marty aims to ignore, neglect and take attention AWAY from the FACT that just about every "bad" behavior of the Church of Scientology is based on EXACT LRH REFERENCES.

Yes, he does seem to be succeeding to some degree in doing that. I think what may be missed though is that most "wogs" don't differentiate between "Miscavige's Scientology" and "Scientology". To them it as ALL nuts. Thank the Lord for A=A=A!

It does amaze me that some people buy into and accept the notion that "all of the bad" is due to Miscavige and NOT fundamentally rooted in Hubbard's own intentions, plans, programs, policies, orders and advices, because the evidence is extensive, simple and clear (to all but the most over-indoctrinated Ronbot). As I see it, these people are the types who still want to "believe the dream", and who do NOT want their delusion to yet be shattered by the intrusion of actual facts upon their crazy Scientology-based belief structure. Marty appeals to THOSE types especially.

The ONLY thing that can effectively neutralize such blatant PR shenanigans is to constantly post and get out there TRUE LIFE examples where people have been harmed, manipulated, tricked, lied to, and decieved through the exact application of RON'S DIRECTIVES TO DO SO.

That is why I often provide examples of "hard sell", "disconnection", "ruin-finding", "manipulative use of ARC to bring about agreement with falsehoods", or OSA tactics while also clearly showing the LRH reference that is being directly applied.

A perfect example is how Marty is being harrassed by the "Squirrel Busters". That is classic, 100% application of "standard LRH policies" on "handling critics", "conducting noisy investigations", and caving in "enemies" through incessant over-the-top impingement of PC folder data and other sordid information.

What is being done to Marty is NOT unique to Miscavige, and is based ENTIRELY on LRH's recommendations on how to address and handle ANY "enemy". Granted, Marty seems to be getting a "lighter touch" than even Anon Sparrow recently underwent, but THAT might be because Miscavige and Marty have so MUCH dirt on the other, or that Marty actually is an OSA Op (whcih I sort of doubt, but anything is possible in the deceptive world of Scientology OSA misrepresentation of reality so as to achieve some goal).

Thank-you for continuing to post Hubbard's own words and PR tactics. For some people such FACTS may only finally sink in after much repetition.

Number of times over material equals certainty!!!!! :biggrin:

Oh, about "the good name of L. Ron Hubbard":

:hysterical:

That Marty or anyone else could actually be seriously concerned with such a significance as "Hubbard's good name" is truly mind-boggling to me (but then I AM a "Declared SP" in the fullest sense of the term, meaning any person "publicly departing Scientology" or behaving with "actions or ommissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology or Scientologists).

Suppressing, reducing or impeding Scientology sounds VERY good to me! :happydance: :happydance: :biggrin: :thumbsup:

My post was somewhat hastily written, but it conveys, I hope, the general idea.

To wrap it up, for the benefit of any newbie lurkers, here are a few more items:


According to Jesse Prince, former senior Scientology executive:

"Miscavige is continuing to carry out LRH's orders...

"...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..." http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/jesse.htm


From Larry Brennan:

"There was a real secret body of people directly run by Hubbard."

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=90246&postcount=1

From a 1986 interview of Martin Samuels, former Mission Holder, and founder of the Delphian School, from the 'Reflections' chapter of the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?' http://www.amazon.com/reader/0942637577?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt :


"Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.

"The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...

"And of course the next person thinks he or she is immune. Of course, now Hubbard is dead, so we won't see that pattern particularly repeated, except inasmuch as we'll see the Church hierarchy emulate and carry that pattern forward.

"The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

"And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.

"And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.

"And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...

"But the thing that's amazing, and to me terrifying, is the characteristic of the mind, my mind, your mind, and apparently many other people's minds, where I could buy this horseshit, where I could participate in it."



Jesse Prince, Legal Declaration, 1999: http://lermanet.com/reference/Jesse2inWoller.htm


Excerpt from the 1991 David Mayo (Ex Scientologist, Class XII and former Senior C/S International, and Hubbard's personal auditor) article on 'Clear':

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."

And from author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986.

"What worried me was that I saw some things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be...

"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
WHY TOMMY DAVIS CANNOT BLOW: Because he already is blown. From reality. Unfortunately, Scientologists are painstakingly indoctrinated on their bridge to only blow things--charge, engrams, bt's et al. They never did TR-U. The training drill that teaches one how to Unblow.

I thought blowing was how a desperate Scientologist gets bridge money together.

Pete
 

Moosejewels

Patron Meritorious
I thought blowing was how a desperate Scientologist gets bridge money together.

Pete

As far as I can see (which at times isn't very far), I was in C of S (public) well before miscavige & friends ascended in the heirerarchy. Or at least before I knew the name. In my viewpoint all the crap that is being laid at miscavige's feet was going on well before his influence came into being. He just seems to have carried on the original policies during this time period when these policies are being shown the light of day. Pretty simple, huh ? Too simple ? :confused2:
 
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