Purple Rain
Crusader
And further to that, there's nothing to make an ex want to speak out like knowing they will be compared with Nazis, Spanish inquisitors and suicide bombers. Way to encourage somebody.
New SP Times article: Former Scientology insiders describe a world of coercion
- Thread starter TEoS
- Start date
And further to that, there's nothing to make an ex want to speak out like knowing they will be compared with Nazis, Spanish inquisitors and suicide bombers. Way to encourage somebody.
Gadfly
Crusader
It is what it is.
Scientology CLAIMS to be all about "confront". It claims to have a concern for facing and looking at what is REALLY THERE.
Well I suggest that the ex-Scientologist work long and hard at getting OUT of his or her comfortable little box of fixed ideas, and CONFRONT what REALLY has been going on in yourself and with the group you have been "pretending to be a part of".
One has to choose to stop contributing to a delusion at some point! I am sorry to be so "determined", "uncompromising", or "pushy". But Scientologists should be used to THAT.
I would guess that the reason why some ex-Scios and even some here resist the analogy I provided with "Nazis, Spanish inquisitors and suicide bombers" is because deep down they STILL harbor some slight attitude or view that Scientology really aimed to, could, would or should "help people" in all the many exaggerated ways that Hubbard defined and described. They still refuse to confront the simple fact that most of Hubbard's creation was a SCAM, and that Scientology was his personal vehicle used to gain power, wealth, admiration and attention. Once one truly confronts that the Church of Scientology lies, tricks, deceives, manipulates and cheats people, by Hubbard's exact design, then accepting the analogy is not so horribly difficult.
Scientology forces others to work long hours, pays them little, berates them constantly all along the way, abandons members at the slightest provocation, wastes long-contributing members without a thought, destroys families and relationships (disconnection), slanders innocent people, fabricates events and situations to harm innocent people, sucks the life out of people, sucks the money out of people, lies, lies, and lies, and on and on and on. It does so with dedication, with unreasonableness, with Tone 40, and it NEVER looks back!
They DO THIS because they "believe" that "we are the good guys and that we are helping Mankind". In Scientology the "ends justify the means". Dictators and oppressors follow that same maxim. It is a nasty maxim used by nasty people (no matter how they may conceive themselves to be the "decent and ethical folks"). The world and view of a Scientologist is truly like an "alternative universe", where what used to be nonsense now makes total sense, and vice versa.
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afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
I’m glad Hy is out and speaking out. However, for some reason the article omits the fact that Hy was in the SO at the FLB in the very late ‘70’s or so. :confused2:
Face
Face
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
I’m glad Hy is out and speaking out. However, for some reason the article omits the fact that Hy was in the SO at the FLB in the very late ‘70’s or so. :confused2:
Face
Maybe. But Karin Pouw's quotes in the paper give the idea that she's lying about present-day conditions rather than lying about past conditions.
Paul
Sindy
Crusader
Jesus Christ on a Cross, why do people use this notion of "he believed in what he was doing" as some index that MAKES IT BE OKAY????!!!!! :confused2:
The priests of the Spanish Inquisition TRULY BELIEVED that they were "saving the souls of sinners" when they tightened the thumbscrews during torture or lit the blazing fire around the heretic.
The psychiatrist truly believed that he was "helping" some person when he injected him or her full of Thorazine (the "chemical lobotomy') or continually jolted high current into his or her brain. (i.e. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest)
Some Nazis TRULY BELIEVED that they were HELPING to "bring about a glorious new era for Mankind" by eradicating the "lower forms of genetic slime and scum".
I truly do not grasp how some people use this idea as a gauge for "decency" or "validity".
The truth is that people often believe really STUPID SHIT and USE IT AS AN EXCUSE to commit endless harm to other people.
Hubbard nailed it in the Code of Honor when he said:
Never fear to harm another in a just cause!
THAT is what Hy was doing. He "believed", and that "faith" justified his consistent behavior over many years. That is also what the priest of the Spanish Inquisition was doing. That is what the Muslim terrorist does when he blows up a bus full of school kids. They each BELIEVE what they are "selling", and they are each easily content to HARM OTHERS in the name of their (delusional, imaginary) "just cause".
As I see it, anonomog was not at all "being too critical".
Believers do not see any of what they do as "harm" to others. They see it as "a good thing".
Maybe someday Hy and others like him will realize that "taking all that money" from people while selling them a non-existant "bridge to total freedom" was NOT such a "nice thing to do". It is interesting how "stupid people" (true believers, converts) are forgiven the same crimes or nasty behaviors that evil people are held accountable for. Hubbard gets vilified for creating and selling a deceitful "bridge to total freedom", but folks like Hy are "admired" because he was "doing what he believed". Just another contradiction of Scientology.
Hubbard sure knew what he was doing when he attracted followers with the "help" button!
Good posting. Would you put all ex-Scientologists in the Nazi category or only those who joined staff?
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Correct.Maybe. But Karin Pouw's quotes in the paper give the idea that she's lying about present-day conditions rather than lying about past conditions.
Paul
I’ll make my point directly. Hy was reging at the FLB in the late ‘70’s. IIRC, he routed out, went up the “Bridge” and then came back in the SO at the FLB. He was a money maker and money makers were always persona grata at Flag.
Therefore, Hy was “Out” and “Free” and came back and did the same thing all over again. As a high dollar reg Hy did not live on 50 bucks a week…no way…and he would have had special perks and privileges most of the time throughout his tenure. Also, Flag DofP's commonly received bonuses as well and worked hand in glove with Foster and the other reges to "set up" public for "closing". Flag DofP's were and integral part of the GI apparatus. Depending on a particular deal reges quite often "feathered the nest" of a DofP that did exactly what the reg wanted.
Hy was a very likable guy but he also could charm the eyes out of a snake…and he knew it. I’m not trying to negate or denigrate Hy in anyway but, as usual, I’m gonna give my “Take”.
Now, the Cof$ is always gonna say that someone that speaks out is lying. I’m not saying that Hy is lying…I’m pointing out that there is omitted information that appertains to the discussion points re: Hy being brought up on this thread and I decided to throw out some stuff that, based upon their comments, others here might find of interest.
Face
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Gadfly
Crusader
It's an analogy. Obviously the degree and sheer quanitity of "harm" differs greatly between Scientology and Nazi Germany (or a Muslim terrorist or Inquisitor). The similarity is in that they "believe" their goal, vision or mission to be "supreme" (above all other concerns, valid, lofty, worthwhile), and that all actions are excused or justified that lead to the real or imagined realization of those goals, visions or missions. The degree, severity and intensity of THAT differs for each Scientology participant.
It is a "gradient". Obviously those at the highest levels of the Sea Org, and who have stayed in for the longest, are most guilty of perpetrating the delusion. Granted some or many also bought into it too. Next would be the garden-variety Sea Org member. Then org staff. Then mission staff. Then the public Scientologist who is an FSM for the org, Flag, AOLA, or IAS.
An interesting aspect to this has to do with the "separating of powers" and "compartmentalization of activities" (like in the CIA). Sadly, many Scientology participants have NO IDEA what OSA does to harm innocent people, or are at all familiar with Hubbard's "Sea Org" issues or confidential management policies.
My point was about how the belief and "certainty" that "I am doing good" often enables people to harm others in the name of the "just cause". I saw a great movie awhile ago, called "Forgiving the Franklins". It is a great drama about fanaticism, built around overzealous religious nutbag Christians in North Carolina. But, it has AMAZING similarities to Scientology, and it had me saying to myself, "that is JUST LIKE Scientology", over and over. Rent it and WATCH IT. It is hilarious, and REAL. It is exaggerated, but I was slapping my knee MANY times in laughter. It is a "dark comedy".
[video=youtube;6ttUAHYdqXo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ttUAHYdqXo[/video]
There was a line where one of the devout Christian women says something like, "sometimes one must do bad things in carrying out the Lord's work". It reminded so MUCH of Scientology.
What happens in Scientology, for ANY member, is that one first is attracted to the claims, promises, asserted goals, and "fluff" (nice stuff used to attract you). These are all of the nature of "ideals" or "wouldn't it be nice if the world was like this". People can and do easily AGREE with such ideas. Really, who can disagree with wanting to create a world without war, crime and insanity? But, some of the people eventually step outside the realm of thought (ideas, concepts, ideals) and actually compare these claims to REALITY. The people who FAIL to do THAT stay involved the longest.
Those who contribute the most and the longest are those who have failed to compare the world of thought, as created by Hubbard in his entire paradigm of ideas, with the world of REALITY. Both the reality that 1) Scientology does not and cannot produce the many results it claims that it can, and that 2) Scientology takes advantage of, manipulates, lies to, and "harms" many people in the name of "achieving its goals".
I don't put ANY Scientologist in a "nazi category". There are "similarities". I do put all Scientologists into that group of people who contribute to a belief system and organization that harms innocent people. Some do it more than others, as I described above, with those in the Sea Org being the worst offenders.
It is a matter of length of time involved and degree. For any person to stay involved for a VERY long period of time, as a reg, as a recruiter, in the Sea Org, as org staff, as an FSM, one MUST really either 1) believe the nonsense greatly, or 2) use the fact of the nonsense to make money, gain admiration, obtain power, etc. And, some stay because their families are in, or it would be too difficult to leave the Sea Org and start a life in the real world at age 40, etc.
There are many who simply "believe greatly", who NEVER have regged a penny, who have NEVER recruited a person, and who have NEVER yelled at another to "create an effect". But they "enable" the rest of it, whether they are aware of the details or not, by remaining mired in the shared delusion. I am not "judging them". I am simply describing what is going on.
I don't "blame" a tornado for tearing apart a home and killing a family. It is a "natural occurence". The same with people really. It is "natural" for people to trick others and for others to be tricked by lies, deceptions and "buying into some set of ideas and beliefs". I don't blame them. It just "is". And, just as with a tornado, it behooves you to pay attention and learn all about the nature of them, and to stay FAR AWAY from them if you care about your health and well-being. The same with Scientology. ESMB is one place to "learn about" the nature of outfits like Scientology.
More of the Franklins:
[video=youtube;Z8yq3QdWd2Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yq3QdWd2Q[/video]
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Lulu Belle
Moonbat
I’m glad Hy is out and speaking out. However, for some reason the article omits the fact that Hy was in the SO at the FLB in the very late ‘70’s or so. :confused2:
Face
Oh, so that's why I had no idea who he was.
Student of Trinity
Silver Meritorious Patron
Someone who was a CofS reg for years on end suffered a lot, and also did a lot of harm. No doubt they thought it was all in a good cause, but I'm pretty sure it takes willful blindness to keep thinking that over such a long time. For their suffering and for their sincerity I'd be willing to excuse a certain amount of responsibility, but I think an imposing amount must remain. On balance this is not a tale of moral heroism.
But it's Scientology that insists that every exchange must be kept even, that everyone is fully responsible for their lives, and that the past holds the future in chains forever. Scientology isn't true. We can be honest about the past, and still celebrate the present and the future.
If this former reg's past had too little moral heroism to celebrate, well, unfortunately that's true of most of our pasts. Perhaps amends can be made, not least by helping to stop all this regging in future. And for now, it does take a lot of guts to admit that one has given many years to a lie. That is a heroic act. It deserves a cheer.
But it's Scientology that insists that every exchange must be kept even, that everyone is fully responsible for their lives, and that the past holds the future in chains forever. Scientology isn't true. We can be honest about the past, and still celebrate the present and the future.
If this former reg's past had too little moral heroism to celebrate, well, unfortunately that's true of most of our pasts. Perhaps amends can be made, not least by helping to stop all this regging in future. And for now, it does take a lot of guts to admit that one has given many years to a lie. That is a heroic act. It deserves a cheer.
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
If I'm not mistaken, I thought it was Hy as an SO member/officer that was on an "LRH is fine and doing well tour" to the outer orgs during the '75-76-77 period. Don't remember exactly. Long time ago.
I remember the conversation I had with him privately off the podium. The main things he told me was that LRH was doing gardening, working on some weight lifting every day, had quit smoking in one day (showing his supreme discipline) after his doctor told him he would croak unless he quit immediately.
Well, at the time I thought this was all real strange since I didn't know anything was amiss in the first place. The outer orgs did not get all the rumors in a timely fashion.
So why the "he is just fine" tour?I thought this was HY. Odd that I remember the talking points of the conversation after 35 years. Must have shocked my system at the time.
Anyone remember this?
ILove2Lurk
Good twin
Floater
Oh Gadfly. Thank you for bringing up Paul Miller, the narcoleptic reg. I really loved that guy and I hope he is still making decent commissions off of the 2nd husband I never had and his current wife. 
...and yes you are correct. As much fondness as I have for all of them that are who we were, they are quite delusional and obviously in denial about what they are observing.
Today I was talking with a friend who is an Ex and he mentioned his allergies. I offered to do the Allergy/Asthma Rundown on him. I was just joking around with him, but I was/am a Flag trained Allergy/Asthma Rundown Specialist. We talked about the procedure and the theory of the rundown. I told him that I really enjoyed running the rundown and the styles of auditing it contains. Then he asked me if it works.
I told him that I had never seen anyone cured of any allergy or asthma on it, but that the PCs had such tremendous wins they didn't care about the allergies once they completed.
Do you know how many times Paul Miller has had that narcolepsy addressed and "handled"? He still sleeps at his desk and he collects enough money by 2pm every Thursday to keep his seat. That's OT!
...and yes you are correct. As much fondness as I have for all of them that are who we were, they are quite delusional and obviously in denial about what they are observing.
Today I was talking with a friend who is an Ex and he mentioned his allergies. I offered to do the Allergy/Asthma Rundown on him. I was just joking around with him, but I was/am a Flag trained Allergy/Asthma Rundown Specialist. We talked about the procedure and the theory of the rundown. I told him that I really enjoyed running the rundown and the styles of auditing it contains. Then he asked me if it works.
I told him that I had never seen anyone cured of any allergy or asthma on it, but that the PCs had such tremendous wins they didn't care about the allergies once they completed.
Do you know how many times Paul Miller has had that narcolepsy addressed and "handled"? He still sleeps at his desk and he collects enough money by 2pm every Thursday to keep his seat. That's OT!
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
If I'm not mistaken, I thought it was Hy as an SO member/officer that was on an "LRH is fine and doing well tour" to the outer orgs during the '75-76-77 period. Don't remember exactly. Long time ago.
I remember the conversation I had with him privately off the podium. The main things he told me was that LRH was doing gardening, working on some weight lifting every day, had quit smoking in one day (showing his supreme discipline) after his doctor told him he would croak unless he quit immediately.
Well, at the time I thought this was all real strange since I didn't know anything was amiss in the first place. The outer orgs did not get all the rumors in a timely fashion.
I thought this was HY. Odd that I remember the talking points of the conversation after 35 years. Must have shocked my system at the time.
Anyone remember this?
ILove2Lurk
I remember at Saint Hill an "LRH Source Briefing Mission," in our case delivered by Ira Chaleff in a suit. Ira stayed on at AOSHUK as SuperCargo, possibly CO. This would have been about 1975, I think.
Like you I had no idea anything was amiss with him.
Paul
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Correct.
I’ll make my point directly. Hy was reging at the FLB in the late ‘70’s. IIRC, he routed out, went up the “Bridge” and then came back in the SO at the FLB. He was a money maker and money makers were always persona grata at Flag.
Therefore, Hy was “Out” and “Free” and came back and did the same thing all over again. As a high dollar reg Hy did not live on 50 bucks a week…no way…and he would have had special perks and privileges most of the time throughout his tenure. Also, Flag DofP's commonly received bonuses as well and worked hand in glove with Foster and the other reges to "set up" public for "closing". Flag DofP's were and integral part of the GI apparatus. Depending on a particular deal reges quite often "feathered the nest" of a DofP that did exactly what the reg wanted.
Hy was a very likable guy but he also could charm the eyes out of a snake…and he knew it. I’m not trying to negate or denigrate Hy in anyway but, as usual, I’m gonna give my “Take”.
Now, the Cof$ is always gonna say that someone that speaks out is lying. I’m not saying that Hy is lying…I’m pointing out that there is omitted information that appertains to the discussion points re: Hy being brought up on this thread and I decided to throw out some stuff that, based upon their comments, others here might find of interest.
Face
Thanks for that. I wasn't going to post this until I saw your candid take on it. It made me change my mind. . .
I like Hy too.
But, joining Hubbard's cult inevitably makes fine people into liars, manipulators and con men--just like Hubbard. How could it be otherwise?
One doesn't join a cult or terrorist activity and last long without adopting their methods and justifications.
Hy became a liar and a manipulator. He did it in a skilled, oft-times charming and always aggressive way. But he became part of Hubbard's con game, despite being such a likable fellow. How do I know this? Because of of my personal experience with him.
When he very seriously warned me that: "If you don't buy this next auditing right now, you are not going to make it," he was doing everything in his power to scare the living daylights out of me and bully me into obeying his demands. It was despicable then and it is despicable now. But I really do understand how he became a terrorist.
Perhaps if I had been a true believer, I would have made that final leap into the abyss--surrendering what vestiges of authorship over my own life remained. I really believe that moments like this are pivotal and if one makes the wrong choice, one can easily have ended up like Lisa McPherson. Perhaps, not physically dead, but certainly mentally and spiritually dead. And this includes the death of ones own life and dreams.
I just floated away from Scientology at that point, bit by bit. It concerned me at first that I was "not going to make it". Nobody likes a death sentence hanging over them. Nobody likes to hear that they are dying. Scientology and Scientologists smile when they make such morbid pronouncements to you, thinking it is no big deal.
Scientologists working in an org assume control of your life just like it is some casual video game that they are playing and if they don't "win" with you, they just push "play again" with another person.
There is no personal connection other than money. You give money you are a hero. You don't give money--you die! It's Hubbard's rules and when Hy was on Hubbard's team he played by those rules.
At that time it was crystal clear that "you are not going to make it" was a technical and personal evaluation that I was NOT GOING TO LIVE without paying money. It also meant that I would suffer endless eternities for not having paid money.
The point is that Scientologists will do virtually ANYTHING to "get their product".
I still like Hy. I haven't seen him since that moment a couple decades ago. It was also the last time I saw any reg or did any Scientology.
I guess I did make it, Hy.
Did you make it, Hy?
Maybe you made it half-way, having blown the CoS and hanging out at the oasis watering hole known as Indie Scientology.
Keep going buddy, that feeling of freedom and elation you felt when you left the Sea Org is great, but there's much more where that came from when you leave Hubbard's Scientology cult. So keep working on that Routing Out Form, Hy baby.
Do I think you owe me a personal apology? Hell no! I understand you were simply an actor reading the lines of your script as they were written. You don't owe me anything. But you owe it to yourself to keep reading and learning about the true nature, practices & history of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard. The facts are out there--just awaiting your discovery.
Finally, Hy, I have untold admiration for your having stepped up and told the truth about Scientology's "money machine". It is whistle-blowing extraordinaire. Thanks so much for putting your wonderful intelligence and communication skills to such great use!
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Veda
Sponsor
Correct.
I’ll make my point directly. Hy was reging at the FLB in the late ‘70’s. IIRC, he routed out, went up the “Bridge” and then came back in the SO at the FLB. He was a money maker and money makers were always persona grata at Flag.
Therefore, Hy was “Out” and “Free” and came back and did the same thing all over again. As a high dollar reg Hy did not live on 50 bucks a week…no way…and he would have had special perks and privileges most of the time throughout his tenure. Also, Flag DofP's commonly received bonuses as well and worked hand in glove with Foster and the other reges to "set up" public for "closing". Flag DofP's were and integral part of the GI apparatus. Depending on a particular deal reges quite often "feathered the nest" of a DofP that did exactly what the reg wanted.
Hy was a very likable guy but he also could charm the eyes out of a snake…and he knew it. I’m not trying to negate or denigrate Hy in anyway but, as usual, I’m gonna give my “Take”.
Now, the Cof$ is always gonna say that someone that speaks out is lying. I’m not saying that Hy is lying…I’m pointing out that there is omitted information that appertains to the discussion points re: Hy being brought up on this thread and I decided to throw out some stuff that, based upon their comments, others here might find of interest.
Face
Hard Sell, a.k.a. Crush Sell, has been part of Scientology since the 1960s. I witnessed Hard Sell tech being used in the early 1970s. The idea, as I recall Hubbard explaining it in the Hard Sell pack, is that people ("wogs," "Homo Saps," "Raw meat" and, apparently, even Scientologists) are naturally in a sort of hypnotic daze, and will respond to being told what to do, if that telling is done effectively. Trickery is also part of Hard Sell tech, as is "ruthlessness," after all, look at what's at stake, the eternity of every Man, Woman, and Child on this planet and your own endless agaonized trillions and, besides, successful Scientology sales people lived very well. They were "up stats" and were rewarded.
"Make money. Make more money. Make other people produce so as to make more money." L. Ron Hubbard, 1972
Hubbard's "religion angle" and "religious cloaking" were aimed largely at achieving tax exempt status. When this occurred in the USA in 1993, the kind of pure-money-sucking that's now done in Scientology became realistic. Donations to Scientology are tax exempt, and those donating can make deductions on their income tax returns. In effect, the United Sates government is supporting the Scientology cult, just as Hubbard had envisioned.
However, even before the Scientology money-sucking vacuum cleaner engine was turned on full, Hard Sell was going strong in the "Church" of Scientology.
From Hana Eltringham, from the 'Secret Lives' BBC program:
""He [Hubbard] stated [that] coming ashore would be profitable, because we could get so many more people to the Flag Land Base, as it was to be called, for auditing and training, and he wanted to concentrate on getting professionals to the Land Base because, of course, they had more accessible money. They had pension funds. They had children's education funds, and some of these he named, that were accessible."
See 3:20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhULw6qarW4
From the 1991 David Mayo article on 'Clear'. (This, and the quote below, concern David Mayo's time with Hubbard in the late 1970s.):
"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."
And from author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986:
"What worried me was that I saw some things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be...
"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
Well we were members of a fanatical, exploitive, abusive cult bent on dominating the world and eradicating its enemies all in the name of advancing the Hubbard Agenda. What would you compare that to - the Girl Guides?
The children who were born into it and grew up in it - well yeah, I would totally agree that they deserve a respectful and warm welcome and handling.
But those of us who joined? those of us who joined the SO? Why would there be some need to be kid gloves? Why not just start telling the truth?
Sure I have harmed other people. But, I have always tried to learn from my own stupid behavior and move on as a better person.
I remember talking to Paul Miller (FSO Reg) back in about 1987, We had been fairly good friends back at FOLO EUS (when he was an FSC there in the late 1970s). He told me that he stayed and did what he did due to "Boots in the Sky". He BELIEVED that he was acting to "save the universe". He took all of that VERY seriously - future eternities, etc. He accepted, adopted and "thought ONLY with" all of Hubbard's nonsense.
But I saw it differently. I would watch him reg people, almost asleep a great deal of the time (he had a metabolism problem and was grossly overweight), He "knew the patter". He "knew the drill". He had rehearsed the lines and angles a thousand times. He was "experienced" and he could do what he did asleep (and he actually often DID just that).
Now, I was in the Sea Org for a few years. But, there was a difference. I NEVER liked how people were pushed around. I never liked the "hard sell". I was familiar with all the "LRH references", and no matter how much I read the stuff, it was always FUCKED UP (to me). I could never tolerate how people would be coerced, forced, and pressured into givivng every last penny "for the good of Mankind".
I didn't last in the Sea Org because I did not agree with 1) the extreme fanaticism, 2) the intense force and "over-dedicated" single-mindedness, 3) the "we are the only ones with the RIGHT answers" pompous pretentious attitude that ran all throughout Scientology, and 4) how individuals were constantly verbally, emotionally and financially raped in the name of "bringing about Ron's vision of a Scientology planet".
People who remain in the Sea Org and keep "contributing" for long periods of time are DELUSIONAL. They are tremendously decieved. They have allowed themselves to buy into a HUGE SCAM. They are dreamers who continue to forward a never-attainable ideal that they happily foist onto the world around them, as if they are the True Saviors of The Universe.
I am sorry, I have NO respect for people who accept nonsense as truth, and who work tirelessly to foist THAT on everybody else, while PRETENDING to be "helping to bring about a better world". THAT is REALLY what they are doing.
Stop being so fucking reasonable!@!!!!!!
Differeniate!
There are the ideals and IDEAS that Hubbard claims about Scientology. There are the hopes. There are the dreams. These are largely all bullshit, and for any person to keep mocking up these imaginary "future possibilities" means that these sorts of people have a tendency to AVOID FACING actual facts and realities, and instead remain MIRED in their MINDS, lost in fantasies of "OT abilities", "better conditions", and a "world without war, crime or insanity". These sort of people stay focued on the BAIT instead of notiving the "switch" (of the "bait and switch").
See, the goals and ideals are okay. They are even "admirable". But they have NOTHING to do with actual Scientology. They are NOT attainable with Scientology and they DON'T EXIST outside of the Scientology member's over-active imagination. There comes a point where every person needs to learn the line between the mental and the physical. Scientologists are LOSTin a Twilight Zone between the two.
People believe what people believe. I am totally amazed that anybody believes the official govt. fairytale of 9-11, and those that do buy that lie consider me to be a total nutcase for seeing it otherwise. In a conversation with someone not too long ago, I asked rhetorically "What business is it of the government to know everything about my financial affairs?" and this fellow had a horrified look on his face ... he was one of those who accepted that the govt. knowing everything about your financial affairs is simply a fact of life, not to be questioned, and a good thing at that. I got into a discussion with someone while in the sauna during the beginnings of the financial crisis back in 2008, and was discussing the money system and mentioned that the federal reserve was private. He started LITERALLY SCREAMING "CONSPIRACY THEORY! CONSPIRACY THEORY!" to which I replied, "No, this is an admitted fact. The government will admit that the fed is a private corporation, and so will the fed. Just google them and email them, they will admit to that in writing. It is simple fact." The look on this guys face was utter shock and horror. He went into a state of catatonic brainfart. Some people can accept the truth, go thru a moment of shock and horror, and wake up. Others can't. Here is a scene about waking up and seeing things as they are.
Pete
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA8drfZwnXQ&feature=related
Very funny! Just another way that Hubbard was held up to be super human.
Actually, I also quit smoking "in one day!" One day I smoked; the next day, and every day after that for going on 12 years since then, I didn't. I must be some kind of Wonder Woman, hey? Whoop de doo.
.....
And on the subject of this thread...
I'm glad Hy chose to speak out and shine more light on the actual workings of scientology, and for this I applaud him.
But at the same time, people need to be accountable for their actions. How could a person, for 16 years, extort such huge sums of money from people by such devious means, and put them into such financial jeapardy, with a clear (or even just a keyed-out clear
) conscience? I don't really care to know, work for work with, team up with or associate in any way with someone that "able," thank you very much. I'd only do so while wearing several layers of kevlar on my back...
But at the same time, I believe in redemption, forgiveness, change of heart, amends, all that. His "confession" to the world via the SP Times is certainly a good beginning; let's see what happens next.
And also... I know he doesn't really give a shit what I think or how I feel, because I never had, and still don't have, enough money to make it worth bothering with me in regard to scientology or any other money game. Kind of a safe place to be...
Gadfly
Crusader
Yeah, I had read nearly ALL of the key "conspiracy books" by the early 1990s. On secret government, international finance, political assassinations, media manipulation, health, religion, occult, secret societies, Masons, New World Order, the Illuminati, etc., etc. Books by right-wing Christians (Joh Birch, Texx Marrs), books by liberals, books by professors, and books by nutters. I had over 300 key titles. I bought most from "a-albionic research" before they were even online. I count my 200+ books on aliens, paranormal and UFOs as a separate library, though the conspiracy theme does cross over at times (i.e. Bramley's Gods of Eden, Cooper's Behold a Pale Horse, etc.).
Yeah, and I had read almost all of them. I read at least 7 or 8 books on the Federal Reserve including the classics by G. Edward Griffin, The Creature from Jekyll Island (1994), and William Greider's, Secrets of the Temple: How the Federal Reserve Runs the Country.
Watch this. It isn't "nutty", or only "exciting to conspiracy theorists". It is the simple, cold truth. Most people do NOT WANT the "simple cold truth" about a great many things. They want to believe whatever allows them to "feel good" and "ignore the actual deceit and manipulation that exists all around them".
The sad truth is that far too often WHAT YOU ARE TOLD is NOT "the truth".
Everywhere, by everyone, on TV, in the newspapers by governments, by "authorities". Hubbard was right that the media is NOT to be "trusted". But either is/was he!
Scientology is simply one small almost insignificant unique example of THAT CHRONIC DECEIT that runs rampant throughout all of humanity.
Just about everybody, and most surely this is true for ANY power or monied interest, has 1) "ulterior motives", and 2) reasons and excuses for making things appear to be other than they actually are. Misrepresentation is a chronic human "dramatization".
Hubbard did add to the "techniques" of manipulation and deceit through his theories on postulating "mock-ups", and managing and controlling "agreement". The Church of Scientology, using the theories of Hubbard, is well versed and very well experienced about "misrepresenting" things to be other than they actually are.
[video=youtube;OwUb1SbRfNo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwUb1SbRfNo[/video]
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Operating DB
Truman Show Dropout
I'm sorry. I was just really sad when David Mayo was so attacked when he started posting on the board. I liked him and Julie and I kind of miss them. I just think it's... unnecessary.
Was that the real David Mayo that was posting on here? I thought there was some suspicion as to that really being him. I thought maybe someone was just using his name as their moniker and that it was not the real Mayo.