Not all the way "out" yet. My views and introduction

Nicki

Patron with Honors
Hello.
I'm new. At the risk of being unpopular here... I'm not really anti, not into attacking and I don't feel hateful - but maybe betrayed and hope to see the real SPs in the church exposed one day soon.
I am relieved to find others who share some of my discoveries and views...It validates my own observation - that we were "not in Kansas anymore."
I am actually not an ex, but still a Scientologist...soon to be ex-member of the church with a few loose ends to tie up, before heading into the freezone, I guess.
I thought I'd tell you a little about myself and current viewpoint.
After discovering many unpleasant things about the group I've belonged to for almost 35 years. The betrayal became apparent to me when GAT was released. I hated it! I have 5 incomplete training cycles since that time. Prior to GAT, I actually enjoyed and completed courses..and could apply the data! I did get through OT 3, no problems, but on Solo...I loudly protested the GAT drills and especially that damn simulator! Surprised I didn't get thrown out then.
There were other things even prior to GAT,that I won't get into now.
As I've been separating myself from the church, I realized that the "church" also consists of thousands of Scientologists who are good people and just want to go up the bridge or help themselves or mankind in some way, but still blind or just not confronting, the actual situation...like I was and like some of you were.
So for me "the church" is too general a term when I look at what I'm "against".
My eyes opened up when I decided finally to look at the internet to find out what the fuss was all about in trying to keep Scientologists (church goin') off of the net.
Am I angry? Yes...but do I have to stop caring about people who subcribe to the religion in earnest and who love LRH and Scientology for what it really is? No. It's their choice.
Sure there is some entheta out there...but one can pick and choose what they want to subscribe too.
As far as I am concerned , the subject of Scientology can't hurt anyone, but individuals - on either side of the fence - who use it to wrongfully harm or control other people's lives...that's another story.
I'm interested in finding out what people know about what sinister crap is going on in the church that could be useful on my way out...I've seen some of that data here...and appreciate it...but I'm not really on the rabid attack bandwagon. LRH has been a friend to me and I like the tech...I don't feel that he was the one who tried to pull something over on me.
There's all kinds of shit that happens in life - who ever promised that there'd never be any shit in a group of people that tried to practice Scientology.
We are on earth aren't we?
Best,
Nicki
 
Hello.
I'm new. At the risk of being unpopular here... I'm not really anti, not into attacking and I don't feel hateful - but maybe betrayed and hope to see the real SPs in the church exposed one day soon.
I am relieved to find others who share some of my discoveries and views...It validates my own observation - that we were "not in Kansas anymore."
I am actually not an ex, but still a Scientologist...soon to be ex-member of the church with a few loose ends to tie up, before heading into the freezone, I guess.
I thought I'd tell you a little about myself and current viewpoint.
After discovering many unpleasant things about the group I've belonged to for almost 35 years. The betrayal became apparent to me when GAT was released. I hated it! I have 5 incomplete training cycles since that time. Prior to GAT, I actually enjoyed and completed courses..and could apply the data! I did get through OT 3, no problems, but on Solo...I loudly protested the GAT drills and especially that damn simulator! Surprised I didn't get thrown out then.
There were other things even prior to GAT,that I won't get into now.
As I've been separating myself from the church, I realized that the "church" also consists of thousands of Scientologists who are good people and just want to go up the bridge or help themselves or mankind in some way, but still blind or just not confronting, the actual situation...like I was and like some of you were.
So for me "the church" is too general a term when I look at what I'm "against".
My eyes opened up when I decided finally to look at the internet to find out what the fuss was all about in trying to keep Scientologists (church goin') off of the net.
Am I angry? Yes...but do I have to stop caring about people who subcribe to the religion in earnest and who love LRH and Scientology for what it really is? No. It's their choice.
Sure there is some entheta out there...but one can pick and choose what they want to subscribe too.
As far as I am concerned , the subject of Scientology can't hurt anyone, but individuals - on either side of the fence - who use it to wrongfully harm or control other people's lives...that's another story.
I'm interested in finding out what people know about what sinister crap is going on in the church that could be useful on my way out...I've seen some of that data here...and appreciate it...but I'm not really on the rabid attack bandwagon. LRH has been a friend to me and I like the tech...I don't feel that he was the one who tried to pull something over on me.
There's all kinds of shit that happens in life - who ever promised that there'd never be any shit in a group of people that tried to practice Scientology.
We are on earth aren't we?
Best,
Nicki

Hello.

I like this -quote- It validates my own observation - that we were "not in Kansas anymore."

That's the one: we sure as hell ain't in Kansas anymore.:)
 

airhead

Patron with Honors
Hello, Nicki. I believe that the truest thing LRH ever wrote was, "If it's true for you..."

Welcome to Exscn. :)
 

Human Again

Silver Meritorious Patron
Welcome, Nicki, I'm a bit more anti than you but hope you find the support and info you are looking for. I am sure you'll enjoy some of the discussions here and you will find plenty of the stuff you are looking for.

Cheers,
 

Been Done Had

Patron with Honors
Hi Nicki and welcome!

I commend your courage in posting and simply being willing to look at the data that is available.

There is such an instant read to "entheta" in the church. They train us to shut down and walk away from the slightest whiff of it.

The theta/entheta dichotomy is another way of saying good/evil. I learned after leaving to not fear entheta. Ironically by transitioning from scientologist to wog my confront shot through the roof.:yes:

Anyway, you'll find this board to be surprisingly civil. There is a gamut of views from super-anti to freezoners to those of us who would drift back into the fold if the current regine *were* was lead off in handcuffs.

I never could flow the unadulterated admiration to LRH. I find him an amazingly brilliant and unique man. But he was also complex and flawed. I can accept the tech coming from a mere mortal and not a demigod. In fact his humanity make his achievements even more spectacular. Just my 2 cents.

Enjoy your time here!:happydance:

And remember, you are as free as you can communicate!
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Hi Nicki,

Its good to see a 'current Scn' who thinks for themselves (instead of checking the party line first) :melodramatic: ... whatever you decide to do I wish you lots of luck with your decision.

PS Welcome.

:welcome2:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Hey Nicki,

Welcome. :). Yes, this board does tend to be more civil than you would expect. Personally I will pretty much tolerate anyone here who is sincere, whatever their viewpoint, provided they are reasonably polite about it.

Paul
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
A journey of a thousand miles...

...starts with a single step, Nicki. :yes:

Hello.
I'm new. At the risk of being unpopular here... I'm not really anti, not into attacking and I don't feel hateful - but maybe betrayed and hope to see the real SPs in the church exposed one day soon.

...snip...You were betrayed. Good for not feeling hateful.

Am I angry? Yes...but do I have to stop caring about people who subcribe to the religion in earnest and who love LRH and Scientology for what it really is? No. It's their choice.

...snip...Questions: Are you still one of the "people who"? If so, that is a bad indicator. Why should anyone "love" LRH? Did you personally know him? What "really is" Scientology?

...but I'm not really on the rabid attack bandwagon. LRH has been a friend to me and I like the tech...I don't feel that he was the one who tried to pull something over on me.

I suggest taking the hypothetical viewpointthat LRH was basically a "con artist" and run the equation to see if it fits.


There's all kinds of shit that happens in life - who ever promised that there'd never be any shit in a group of people that tried to practice Scientology.

No one.

We are on earth aren't we?

Yep - enjoy the ride!

Best,
Nicki

Dear Nicki,

I have snipped some things, bolded some things and commented a bit, in your original post. There are things you state; that, in my opinion based upon experience, you might want to look at more carefully as you travel the paths of life.

Love,

EP
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Hello.
I'm new. At the risk of being unpopular here... I'm not really anti, not into attacking and I don't feel hateful - but maybe betrayed and hope to see the real SPs in the church exposed one day soon.
I am relieved to find others who share some of my discoveries and views...It validates my own observation - that we were "not in Kansas anymore."
I am actually not an ex, but still a Scientologist...soon to be ex-member of the church with a few loose ends to tie up, before heading into the freezone, I guess.
I thought I'd tell you a little about myself and current viewpoint.
After discovering many unpleasant things about the group I've belonged to for almost 35 years. The betrayal became apparent to me when GAT was released. I hated it! I have 5 incomplete training cycles since that time. Prior to GAT, I actually enjoyed and completed courses..and could apply the data! I did get through OT 3, no problems, but on Solo...I loudly protested the GAT drills and especially that damn simulator! Surprised I didn't get thrown out then.
There were other things even prior to GAT,that I won't get into now.
As I've been separating myself from the church, I realized that the "church" also consists of thousands of Scientologists who are good people and just want to go up the bridge or help themselves or mankind in some way, but still blind or just not confronting, the actual situation...like I was and like some of you were.
So for me "the church" is too general a term when I look at what I'm "against".
My eyes opened up when I decided finally to look at the internet to find out what the fuss was all about in trying to keep Scientologists (church goin') off of the net.
Am I angry? Yes...but do I have to stop caring about people who subcribe to the religion in earnest and who love LRH and Scientology for what it really is? No. It's their choice.
Sure there is some entheta out there...but one can pick and choose what they want to subscribe too.
As far as I am concerned , the subject of Scientology can't hurt anyone, but individuals - on either side of the fence - who use it to wrongfully harm or control other people's lives...that's another story.
I'm interested in finding out what people know about what sinister crap is going on in the church that could be useful on my way out...I've seen some of that data here...and appreciate it...but I'm not really on the rabid attack bandwagon. LRH has been a friend to me and I like the tech...I don't feel that he was the one who tried to pull something over on me.
There's all kinds of shit that happens in life - who ever promised that there'd never be any shit in a group of people that tried to practice Scientology.
We are on earth aren't we?
Best,
Nicki

Hi Nicki, I share your viewpoint and you will be welcomed in the Freezone when you're ready to go there. :)

Not sure what you're up to speed on and what not. It would be usefull
to search out posts by or quoted by:-

Little Bear Victor

Jeff Hawkins

Marc Headly [ aka Blownforgood]

Who all spent a lot of time at the int base.

Mike Rinder has left COS, Marty Rathbun has too and is basically
a Freezoner now.

You have such things as program chiefs, and the IJC spending more time trying to sell basics than do their posts.

The regular anonymous demonstrations are now into there second year.

Most current news gets to this board.

How many people on courses and auditing lines compared to before?
Note that if you still need to be in good standing don't write anything that
will give away who you are.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome Nicki

Would you expand a little more on the "Fuss"

"......decided finally to look at the internet to find out what the fuss was all about in trying to keep Scientologists (church goin') off of the net. "
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
It's okay to still be a Scientologist on ESMB. There are lots of them.

It's good you had the courage and confront to not allow yourself to be herded away from information vital to your own self interests.

The Creed values the freedom of speech, even if the present Church does not.

Welcome Nicki!
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Hello.
I'm new. At the risk of being unpopular here... I'm not really anti, not into attacking and I don't feel hateful - but maybe betrayed and hope to see the real SPs in the church exposed one day soon.
I am relieved to find others who share some of my discoveries and views...It validates my own observation - that we were "not in Kansas anymore."
I am actually not an ex, but still a Scientologist...soon to be ex-member of the church with a few loose ends to tie up, before heading into the freezone, I guess.
I thought I'd tell you a little about myself and current viewpoint.
After discovering many unpleasant things about the group I've belonged to for almost 35 years. The betrayal became apparent to me when GAT was released. I hated it! I have 5 incomplete training cycles since that time. Prior to GAT, I actually enjoyed and completed courses..and could apply the data! I did get through OT 3, no problems, but on Solo...I loudly protested the GAT drills and especially that damn simulator! Surprised I didn't get thrown out then.
There were other things even prior to GAT,that I won't get into now.
As I've been separating myself from the church, I realized that the "church" also consists of thousands of Scientologists who are good people and just want to go up the bridge or help themselves or mankind in some way, but still blind or just not confronting, the actual situation...like I was and like some of you were.
So for me "the church" is too general a term when I look at what I'm "against".
My eyes opened up when I decided finally to look at the internet to find out what the fuss was all about in trying to keep Scientologists (church goin') off of the net.
Am I angry? Yes...but do I have to stop caring about people who subcribe to the religion in earnest and who love LRH and Scientology for what it really is? No. It's their choice.
Sure there is some entheta out there...but one can pick and choose what they want to subscribe too.
As far as I am concerned , the subject of Scientology can't hurt anyone, but individuals - on either side of the fence - who use it to wrongfully harm or control other people's lives...that's another story.
I'm interested in finding out what people know about what sinister crap is going on in the church that could be useful on my way out...I've seen some of that data here...and appreciate it...but I'm not really on the rabid attack bandwagon. LRH has been a friend to me and I like the tech...I don't feel that he was the one who tried to pull something over on me.
There's all kinds of shit that happens in life - who ever promised that there'd never be any shit in a group of people that tried to practice Scientology.
We are on earth aren't we?
Best,
Nicki

I like the bolded statement above.

The biggest outpoint that I find in the Church is that the idea of "granting beingness" (love, compassion, tolerance) is not practiced officially, while it is the key point expected from all the promotion that the Church puts out.

The next biggest outpoint that I see is the effort by the Church to put blinders on Scientologists, as if they will easily be manipulated by the information on Internet. This to me is "lack of trust" not only in the Scientologists ability to make up their own mind, but also a "lack of confidence" in their own tech to help Scientologists develop the discrimination they need.

Effort to put blinders even on veteran Scientologists is practicing a "non-Scientology process" and it is a technical degrade per policy.

But the current Church seem to have been operating at odds with LRH materials. They are even making efforts to revise LRH materials.

GAT has been an effort to push a certain interpretation of LRH materials, rather than letting a person get the understanding directly from LRH materials. It makes LRH look ineffective. Of course, the Church puts out its own spin. But I hope you can see it from my viewpoint.

.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome to ESMB!

I want to first warn you that you will find a lot of not so nice things about Hubbard. Many of them are true if not all of them. Whether you still want to practice Scientology after you find that stuff out is still up to you of course.

But what is most important is that you have found the church to be controling and harmfull and you are making a better life for yourself by getting away from that control. :thumbsup:
 

Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

It is no crime to think for oneself.

You said you've been in for 35 years. How is your Org. doing now compared to 10 or 15 years ago? By that I mean, students in the academy and basic courses, number of staff etc.?

TP
 
Hello.
I'm new. At the risk of being unpopular here... I'm not really anti, not into attacking and I don't feel hateful - but maybe betrayed and hope to see the real SPs in the church exposed one day soon.
I am relieved to find others who share some of my discoveries and views...It validates my own observation - that we were "not in Kansas anymore."

Welcome Nicki!

You'll find there is quite a diverse range of opinions here. Some are "standard tech only", others are off doing "other practices", some have apparently turned completely against "spiritual practices". The one thing we all tend to agree on is the abusive history of the Co$.

Anyway, mostly we are a civil bunch and I for one am glad to have you here.


Mark A. Baker
 

Mrs Pattycake

Patron with Honors
Welcome Nicki,

I was in for 25 years and completed OTVII on my last trip to Flag Oct 2007. Then 6 months later, after also discovering the data on the internet, I became an ex Scientologist - it was the last thing I expected. Hubby and I spent 4 months solid researching data and verifying it before fully completing a doubt formula.

Confronting some of the data was very disturbing. I am still not fully at peace with it all - but one thing I am sure of is that I am better being here than I was being in there.

I have found that leaving is such a journey in itself.

Good luck with your journey and I'm truly glad you are here.
 

Div6

Crusader
Welcome to ESMB. I don't have much to add to what the others have already said, but I think you will make some friends here. There are FAR more lurking than posting here, so I would encourage you to tell your story for the benefit of others "still in".

As a bit of background, I "spotted" DM as an SP early on. Got thrown out for not caving in to his "out-tech". Got declared years later, right after the first anonymous protest in Feb of last year. I've done through OT IV outside the auspices of "official scientology" and all three L's. Getting ready to do my NOTs very soon. There are some decent people out here, and by the looks of it you've just added one more.

D6
 
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