Question for freezoners about DM

[bluewiggirl]

So, honest question here: if David Miscavige was kicked out and someone else took over Scientology, how likely would you be to go back? Please feel free to explore all the possible angles on this one, and thanks for your input.

EDIT: I know I'm guilty of popping into threads without looking at the section. This question is intended for FZers or others who are currently practicing some form of Scientology outside of the Church. If this doesn't describe you, feel free to comment but please make this clear in your post as well. Thank you.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

So, honest question here: if David Miscavige was kicked out and someone else took over Scientology, how likely would you be to go back? Please feel free to explore all the possible angles on this one, and thanks for your input.

I'm not a freezoner but as a non CofS Scn'ist of my own variety, no, I would not go back. I would be concerned about a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" situation.

What I would like to see is a widespread more easily accessed grass roots thing.

 

[Terril park]

So, honest question here: if David Miscavige was kicked out and someone else took over Scientology, how likely would you be to go back? Please feel free to explore all the possible angles on this one, and thanks for your input.

I'm a natural born heretic and shit stirrer. Doubt I'd go back.

Thing is is not at all clear what would happen to the COS with DM, lets say jailed.

Pilot had a vision of COS and Freezone working together. That is very close to the situation when the missions were very active before being smashed.
One problem then was high prices.

There would need to be massive changes, including to policy. Not sure if that could be done or tolerated. The remaining execs are probably all in various states of shock right now.

Also I'm not sure how those still in, even if only nominally, would still wish
to be associated once threats of disconnection were banished. That has to happen.

Its a good question as DM may be added to the Marc Headly casesand maybe indicted and jailed.

 

[alex]

Shoot, I'm still in and I had problems with the church before DM took over!

The church will be around for a long time in some fashion or another, look at history and churchs, once they get going.....

I think to get freezoners back into the church, the church would have to be as open as the freezone....kind of a complete open door thing, just like you can shop at one grocery store one day and another the next.

Then people could go to the church for specialized stuff or if a particular org had some particularly good person at something, and go to "independent" people too. In my mind the church should stive to be the best, the most standard, have the highest levels of service etc, but never insist on total obedience.

Have you read the Service PL BWG?


I would guess that once out people will not go "back to the church" until it is really a choice that doesnt exlude other options.

 

[bluewiggirl]

Shoot, I'm still in and I had problems with the church before DM took over!

The church will be around for a long time in some fashion or another, look at history and churchs, once they get going.....

I think to get freezoners back into the church, the church would have to be as open as the freezone....kind of a complete open door thing, just like you can shop at one grocery store one day and another the next.

Then people could go to the church for specialized stuff or if a particular org had some particularly good person at something, and go to "independent" people too. In my mind the church should stive to be the best, the most standard, have the highest levels of service etc, but never insist on total obedience.

Have you read the Service PL BWG?


I would guess that once out people will not go "back to the church" until it is really a choice that doesnt exlude other options.

I have not, do you have a link?

 

[Thrak]

I think scn is doomed as a church as it should have never been one on the first place. The best auditing I ever had was free from somebody that cared. The current structure makes anything positive practically impossible. Whatever there is there of actual value I think can only work in a friendly and helpful environment and right now it's 180 degrees from that. Calling it a "church" and calling the works "scriptures" are only camouflage to fool govts for tax breaks and to avoid law enforcement. It has no other positive value.

 

[Ted]

So, honest question here: if David Miscavige was kicked out and someone else took over Scientology, how likely would you be to go back? Please feel free to explore all the possible angles on this one, and thanks for your input.

I perceive nothing to go back to so, there aren't to many possible angles here. How likely would I be to go back? The simple answer is, "NOT AT ALL!"

 

[Ralph Hilton]

If the Church were to undergo extreme reform and offer apologies to former members rather than "amnesties" and work in co-operation with the FZ then I'd consider assisting them with such things as E-meter development. Going back into the Church under the control of SO management and having a post on their org board is definitely not of interest.

 

[Alanzo]

I am a Freezoner in the sense that I sometimes wear pants with no underwear.

No. Even if David Miscavige were put in jail, I would not go back.

I have graduated from Scientology.

Would you go back to kindergarten?

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I would not go back ever because scientology has nothing that I need or want.

What is does have is childish and an embarrassment and I can't imagine anyone (especially after doing or reading here about OT3) going back for more and paying, both in time and money for the privilege.

I admit (as per the OP) that I am a definite EX scientologist though.

 

[Leon]

As long as there was such a status as "IN" the C of S and/or "OUT" the C of S I would not go back.

If it were to totally reform and one could come and go as one pleased, participate or not participate as one pleased, without any requirement of membership or allegiance to their authorities, then I might go and visit and look up old friends and maybe even contribute if I felt like it.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

It has to be painful obvious to even the most die hard follower of Hubbard, that Hubbard never meant the Church of Scientology to be anything than a profit generating meat grinder to promote him. Why would anyone want to go back to it to get fleeced, when they could just continue outside of it far removed from the stress?

 

[KnightVision]

As long as there was such a status as "IN" the C of S and/or "OUT" the C of S I would not go back.

If it were to totally reform and one could come and go as one pleased, participate or not participate as one pleased, without any requirement of membership or allegiance to their authorities, then I might go and visit and look up old friends and maybe even contribute if I felt like it.

*Assumably* one would have stipulations as well about fairgame, disconnection, prices, abortion, minimum wages, beatings of staff, sleep deprivation, RPF, property vs product, pc folder content disclosure, legal blackmail, and the no end to this list of atrocities rundown...

 

[KnightVision]

I am a Freezoner in the sense that I sometimes wear pants with no underwear.

No. Even if David Miscavige were put in jail, I would not go back.

I have graduated from Scientology.

Would you go back to kindergarten?

 

[lionheart]

Looks so far from these responses, that once people are "out" they are "out".

If there was an open, free, no knowledge report, no fair gaming, no disconnection, etc etc "church". I would love to go back in and talk to old friends. But as an Ex who sees the manipulation throughout the tech as well as through the policy, I would talk to old friends about these things.

I can't see any CofS allowing such a thing.

 

[Feral]

I'm very happy that the FZ exists, inside and outside of Alanzo's pants.

I have no interest in the pursuing scientology in the FZ, but support their right to pursue their belief.

I'd no sooner argue their faith's merit than try to convince a christian that Noah couldn't have built a boat and saved two of each animal from a flood that was utterly impossible.

I suspect the FZ and the growing horde of skilled and educated scientologists that have been expelled from the church is the key to deposing and jailing DM.

Then we can worry about 'clearing' target two.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Looks so far from these responses, that once people are "out" they are "out".

If there was an open, free, no knowledge report, no fair gaming, no disconnection, etc etc "church". I would love to go back in and talk to old friends. But as an Ex who sees the manipulation throughout the tech as well as through the policy, I would talk to old friends about these things.

I can't see any CofS allowing such a thing.

Here is a perfect example of why you'd have to be a pretty damaged individual to go back to the cult and put up with the abuse. You can't even receive a phone call without you and the party calling you getting interrogated, and this has nothing to do with Miscavige, it's textbook Scientology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mKtr62cuQE

 

[thetaCannon]

I would go back if they created a new generic version of scientology that was stripped of excessive L. Ron Hubbard branding, embraced real verifiable results, allowed for new technology to be openly developed, and was deliverable online. All this kitschy wannabe religion bullcrap was stupid in the 50s, and it's even stupider now. The field needs to be opened up and made compatible with modern attitudes and expectations if it's ever going to be any more than a costly pyramid scam.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I would go back if they created a new generic version of scientology that was stripped of excessive L. Ron Hubbard branding, embraced real verifiable results, allowed for new technology to be openly developed, and was deliverable online. All this kitschy wannabe religion bullcrap was stupid in the 50s, and it's even stupider now. The field needs to be opened up and made compatible with modern attitudes and expectations if it's ever going to be any more than a costly pyramid scam.

So you would return to the Church of Scientology, if they stopped practicing Scientology.

 

[Dulloldfart]

If it were a decent place, I would go back. But to be a decent place, it would have to right past wrongs as much as possible, financial and otherwise. Which ain't gonna happen. If they admit legal liability for all the things they should admit liability for, it would open the door to thousands of expensive lawsuits.

It would also have to be open to new tech development, from any source, which ain't gonna happen either. Plus operate sensibly, which also ain't gonna happen.

Would I be part of a sensible NEW organization that happened to use parts of Scn? Yes. But I don't see a way of getting there from here.

Paul