Scientology explained

[Bill]

OK, So I have a reputation here of being outside of the mainstream of thought on this board. Whereas most others have "left Scientology" - left it but unable to let go of it - ...

Having "done" Scientology for over 30 years, I know exactly what it is and what it doesn't do. I have actually, truly left Scientology long ago. But, because I know how Scientology traps and destroys people, and because I was responsible for getting some people into that trap, I continue to have a responsibility to help people get out and, better yet, avoid getting into Scientology.

You don't understand this responsibility and you dub-in that this is some kind of sick "can't let go" problem. Sorry L-2, you really don't understand people and what motivates us to keep speaking out.

You want people to get trapped into Scientology. We want to warn people about the lies, failures and evil of Scientology. I know who has the problem and it isn't me.

 

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Type4_PTS
What (if anything) do you believe can be achieved by way of using Scientology that cannot be achieved through other means?

Answer: Complete erasure of engrams.

Erasing things that do not exist is truly one of the only things that Scientology can "do". The other one is the removal of "body thetans" that do not exist.

Well done! I cannot think of better examples of a Scientology-only "product".

 

[lotus]

Erasing things that do not exist is truly one of the only things that Scientology can "do". The other one is the removal of "body thetans" that do not exist.

Well done! I cannot think of better examples of a Scientology-only "product".

You make me think about the BT's processes on OT levels
It takes years to work on it, spot it, handle it, and then finally you work on identify the one you mocked up...

Scientology:

Unprecedented unmocking up a mock up mocked up by a malignant narcissist sociopath.​

 

[Bill]

I will on this thread ignore all Ad Hominems such as these here, as well as any posts attached.

And anything that might, you know, question your beliefs.

 

[degraded being]

I do not "promote his goods". I never have.

What I promote is that when used with intelligence and discrimination there is worthwhile value to be found in his works. Value that can not be found anywhere else. But "the tech" is only as good as the person applying it, and not one smidgen of a bit better.

What you also promote is that Leon is more intelligent and discriminating than everyone else and Leon is using his critical faculties and others aren't.

You tell people they got duped by (aspects of) scientology because they did not use their critical faculties. You imply and say directly at times, that others lack intelligence and don't discriminate. But they do use their critical factors to see through your silly stance of using critical thinking for things you don't like, and you throw critical thinking right out the window to accept things you do like that are completely irrational and cross over into majical thinking. That is what is not intelligent around here, not what "everyone else" says.

 

[Leon-2]

Leon - Happy New Year!

I have a question, if that is okay?

If someone criticizes Scientology - are they hiding crimes, big sordid ones?

Depends on the circumstances. Generalised rules like this usually ave some workability but not universal.

 

[Leon-2]

What seems to be confusing you about calling a con game a con game?

If you were conned then for yuo ut certainly is a con game. And for anyone else too who reckons they were conned.

But I was not conned and so for me it is not a con game. When it turned into one in the early 1980s I got out of there.

Here's a simple question: Was L. Ron Hubbard a liar and con man? Did he knowingly promote and collect money for something he was not able to deliver?

Yes and Yes

Sure, (in the late 70's) 20 years after he admitted Dianetics didn't make a Clear, he changed back and told his loyal customers that it suddenly and miraculously did produce a Clear again.

So quite obviously he himself didn't know what a Clear was. Nor how to recognise one. Like I said earlier - it is undefinable.

Of course at that time, he was anxious to rush 10-20 thousand Scientologists onto the more profitable OT levels.

Indeed.

 

[Anonycat]

Depends on the circumstances. Generalised rules like this usually ave some workability but not universal.

Hubbard's 'Suppressive Person' doctrine, in that any person that is perceived to impede — directly or indirectly — the expansion of Scientology is seen as 'criminal,' with no regard of how honorable are their motivations. If someone criticizes some intrinsically harmful Scientology practices, this person becomes a 'Suppressive Person'.

In Scientology doctrine, criticism of Scientology doctrine is a high crime. By its creator, you should be destroyed, and the sooner the better.

How do you reckon with that?

 

[George Layton]

What on earth are you going on about? I know all this that you write about. The parts that make any sense at least.

What is your question?

Why isn't it enough to simply save yourself, in whatever form that works for you? Why attempt to sell the mechanics of scientology when it has harmed so so so many people? Has so much personal gain blinded you to the fact that it was just that, your own personal gain? Especially on a board that might have people trying to unravel the misinformation they have been fed for decades. You admit you're not even sure what states are brought about by the mechanics of scientology and yet promote what you consider the purified form. Consider that it was YOUR experiences in the deeper understanding you gained. Everyone should have the freedom to choose, but you may have the ear of some who aren't aware that the nature of reality put forth by scientology is built upon the fabrications in hubbard's mind. Why do you feel the need to show others the way to bring about states of mind that made YOU what YOU are.

 

[Anonycat]

If you were conned then for yuo ut certainly is a con game. And for anyone else too who reckons they were conned.

But I was not conned and so for me it is not a con game. When it turned into one in the early 1980s I got out of there.




Yes and Yes




So quite obviously he himself didn't know what a Clear was. Nor how to recognise one. Like I said earlier - it is undefinable.



Indeed.

I feel like I'm getting close ... so, the gist of it is; Hubbard could not deliver results using scientology, but you can. Although it's a vague shadow of Hubbard's scientology, with some Hubbard scientology mixed in?

 

[Knows]

Having "done" Scientology for over 30 years, I know exactly what it is and what it doesn't do. I have actually, truly left Scientology long ago. But, because I know how Scientology traps and destroys people, and because I was responsible for getting some people into that trap, I continue to have a responsibility to help people get out and, better yet, avoid getting into Scientology.

You don't understand this responsibility and you dub-in that this is some kind of sick "can't let go" problem. Sorry L-2, you really don't understand people and what motivates us to keep speaking out.

You want people to get trapped into Scientology. We want to warn people about the lies, failures and evil of Scientology. I know who has the problem and it isn't me.

Bill - clear and simple. You nailed it.

BTW - Scientology - "get rid of your reactive mind" turned into "you are mocking it up but can stop it and control it" Fraud!

and

you just spent $$$ on going Clear and now you are going to find out that you paid to audit your BT's and now you are going to get them off of you which you will do but you will pay us

When you are done - you will know what you are not but will be waiting to find out what you are

Really?

Really?

Seriously???

 

[Leon-2]

Hubbard's 'Suppressive Person' doctrine, in that any person that is perceived to impede — directly or indirectly — the expansion of Scientology is seen as 'criminal,' with no regard of how honorable are their motivations. If someone criticizes some intrinsically harmful Scientology practices, this person becomes a 'Suppressive Person'.

In Scientology doctrine, criticism of Scientology doctrine is a high crime. By its creator, you should be destroyed, and the sooner the better.

How do you reckon with that?

hey, I work with the parts of Scientology that make sense to me. No ways will I take on and use the bits that don't, no matter if LRH in his holy exalted state says I must. I do what I do, not what someone tells me to do. And I hope that you follow the same policy in what you do.

So . . . what's your problem?

 

[lotus]

I feel like I'm getting close ... so, the gist of it is; Hubbard could not deliver results using scientology, but you can. Although it's a vague shadow of Hubbard's scientology, with some Hubbard scientology mixed in?

Is is $cientology - Hubbardism, freezonism, pilotism, Robertsonism or Leonism ?????

 

[Anonycat]

hey, I work with the parts of Scientology that make sense to me. No ways will I take on and use the bits that don't, no matter if LRH in his holy exalted state says I must. I do what I do, not what someone tells me to do. And I hope that you follow the same policy in what you do.

So . . . what's your problem?

Nothing until now. You seem defensive. You asked the population here to ask you questions, and I did, just like everyone else. If you're about to snap completely, please let me know in advance.

 

[Leon-2]

Why isn't it enough to simply save yourself, in whatever form that works for you? Why attempt to sell the mechanics of scientology when it has harmed so so so many people? Has so much personal gain blinded you to the fact that it was just that, your own personal gain? Especially on a board that might have people trying to unravel the misinformation they have been fed for decades. You admit you're not even sure what states are brought about by the mechanics of scientology and yet promote what you consider the purified form. Consider that it was YOUR experiences in the deeper understanding you gained. Everyone should have the freedom to choose, but you may have the ear of some who aren't aware that the nature of reality put forth by scientology is built upon the fabrications in hubbard's mind. Why do you feel the need to show others the way to bring about states of mind that made YOU what YOU are.

George, you have got things mashed up horribly. yes I have had a lot of personal gain from doing Scientology the way I did it. And yes, many many people were messed up doing Scientology the way they did it. My way of doing it is in no way a "purified form". It's just the way I found I could get good results for me and others, and it is very much a work in progress.

Everybody certainly does have the freedom to choose. In no way am I lessening that right. Where/how do you imagine that I am?

I look at the way the guys here say they experienced Scientology and I look at Jason Beghe's description of what he experienced and I see clearly that that is not the Scientology I did. What he and many on this board have experienced is the bastardized remnant form of the subject the the CofS in its ignorance is promoting as the real thing. And mush of this bastardized form is what Hubbard himself promoted while in his senile dotage.

So I say Hey, that's not what Scientology is or was ever meant to be. That's not what it needs to be. It can be done differently.

Do you have a problem with me doing that?

 

[Anonycat]

Is is $cientology - Hubbardism, freezonism, pilotism, Robertsonism or Leonism ?????

You know, once or twice a year someone comes by with a special message. Remember Kat/e? I honestly think those two could make a connection.

 

[degraded being]

.
.

I wasn't conned -but many or most others involved were.

I was smarter than that - I wasn't conned.

I got out in - (Year) when it all started turning to shit - so I wasn't conned.

I discriminated between what was good and what worked, and what didn't -so I was not conned.

I didn't pay COS much money -so I was not conned.

Some of the scientology procedures I undertook seemed to benefit me - so I was not conned.

And BTW, since I am so intelligent and discriminating and did not get duped, I knew as I was reading DMSMH that it was full of crap, I knew that what LRH said about himself was lies, that he was never a nuclear physicist, that he could not produce a "Clear". I knew that LRHs Orgs were FULL of people who were being duped, and who could not apply Rons tech properly, and that Ron did not know this because Ron was not able to run his organizations properly. I knew all this and lots more- I did not get duped or conned because I was so clever and intelligent that I was even more clever than LRH, but I just HAD to have his tech.

There is a category of leavers who think they were and are invincible.
(Not refering to people who simply claim that they gained some benefits).

 

[Leon-2]

I feel like I'm getting close ... so, the gist of it is; Hubbard could not deliver results using scientology, but you can. Although it's a vague shadow of Hubbard's scientology, with some Hubbard scientology mixed in?

The vague shadow of Hubbard's scientology is the garbage that the CofS has been promoting these last 20 or 30 years. The really good stuff ended in the late 1970s.

 

[Leon-2]

Anonycat, you asked me this:

Hubbard's 'Suppressive Person' doctrine, in that any person that is perceived to impede — directly or indirectly — the expansion of Scientology is seen as 'criminal,' with no regard of how honorable are their motivations. If someone criticizes some intrinsically harmful Scientology practices, this person becomes a 'Suppressive Person'.

In Scientology doctrine, criticism of Scientology doctrine is a high crime. By its creator, you should be destroyed, and the sooner the better.

How do you reckon with that?



And I answered you this:

hey, I work with the parts of Scientology that make sense to me. No ways will I take on and use the bits that don't, no matter if LRH in his holy exalted state says I must. I do what I do, not what someone tells me to do. And I hope that you follow the same policy in what you do.

So . . . what's your problem?

I reckon this answers you exactly with how I reckon with that.

And I'm not about top blow my gaskets. Keep the stuff coming - it's turning out into a great new year so far.

 

[Leon-2]

DB, that's a load of really weak fluff you have there. Come up with something better.