Scientology is all bad
- Thread starter Veda
- Start date
I find it interesting that Ron so often contradicts himself.
Don't Ever Leave a Postulate Unflat VS Don't Run Any Postulates.. and why you should follow his tech for each idea.
Or.. Don't Evaluate for the Pre-clear VS DO Evaluate for the pre-clear, etc etc.. and why you should and why you shouldn't...
How you should get up your stats, meaning work more hours, harder harder harder VS How you should function as a Class A Auditor at all times, even if you are so tired from getting your stats higher each week that you can't think straight.
How you should be a Happy Healthy Human Being, working and having families and enjoying yourself VS How you are degraded meat, and this is your LAST CHANCE to get out of this Hell of a Universe, etc etc etc
The MOST interesting one, to me at the moment, is the SP Data.
He is perfectly happy to tell you all about SP's.. what they do, how they act, how they think.. and at the very end, even giving you the information that if you THOUGHT you were one, you are most definitely NOT.. that SP's will not admit to ANYTHING.. and THEN.. he lets it be known that if anyone calls him an SP, or Wrong in any way, which he is certainly absolutely NOT.. they will end up on the RPF or thrown off a ship, etc..
He seems like a person who is torn between Freeing you and Trapping you. Making you better and making you worse.
When Robert Vaughn Young said the tech and bulletins are pretty much Brilliant or like Ron's PC folders.. that seems correct. He wanted to get better and he didn't.. He wanted Truth, and he didn't. That's how I am currently understanding LRH. Dilpickle
Don't Ever Leave a Postulate Unflat VS Don't Run Any Postulates.. and why you should follow his tech for each idea.
Or.. Don't Evaluate for the Pre-clear VS DO Evaluate for the pre-clear, etc etc.. and why you should and why you shouldn't...
How you should get up your stats, meaning work more hours, harder harder harder VS How you should function as a Class A Auditor at all times, even if you are so tired from getting your stats higher each week that you can't think straight.
How you should be a Happy Healthy Human Being, working and having families and enjoying yourself VS How you are degraded meat, and this is your LAST CHANCE to get out of this Hell of a Universe, etc etc etc
The MOST interesting one, to me at the moment, is the SP Data.
He is perfectly happy to tell you all about SP's.. what they do, how they act, how they think.. and at the very end, even giving you the information that if you THOUGHT you were one, you are most definitely NOT.. that SP's will not admit to ANYTHING.. and THEN.. he lets it be known that if anyone calls him an SP, or Wrong in any way, which he is certainly absolutely NOT.. they will end up on the RPF or thrown off a ship, etc..
He seems like a person who is torn between Freeing you and Trapping you. Making you better and making you worse.
When Robert Vaughn Young said the tech and bulletins are pretty much Brilliant or like Ron's PC folders.. that seems correct. He wanted to get better and he didn't.. He wanted Truth, and he didn't. That's how I am currently understanding LRH. Dilpickle
PS: One more thing, for anyone who wants to know where my friend got the ideas of running postulates and asking WHY... I asked him, and he sent me this information, written by Ron.. my friend thought it made sense, and started to use it in the sessions he gave.
From Handbook for Preclears:
you have read here before and as you have come to suspect in your processing, your
own decisions and evaluations are the most important items in the entire process.
What you decide is LAW to you. What you evaluate is evaluation to you.
SELF-CONFIDENCE is nothing more than belief in one’s ability to decide and in one’s
decisions.
MOST PEOPLE THINK THEY HAVE UNCONSCIOUS MINDS OR
BACKGROUNDS OF MOTIVATION SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE REFUSED THEIR
OWN POWER TO DECIDE.
Negation of decision, refusal of decision, letting others decide are the most powerful
sources of aberration. They apply to any and all subjects.
This section is devoted to picking up each and every postulate you can now reach in
your whole lifetime. A postulate is a decision you make to yourself or to others. You make
one, then afterwards conditions change and you make a second one. This makes the first one
wrong. You make a postulate as cause and then, by having lived through some instants of time,
become an effect of your own cause.
A computer could not work if you kept leaving its totals on the calculator for the next
problem. That is what you do with decisions. They have to be made. Sweep them up before
making more. It is a new method of thinking and one that keeps you happy. No need to be
afraid of making decisions. Simply sweep up old decisions. You make New Year’s resolutions.
And you make them into the teeth of old resolutions and you tell yourself you are
weak-willed. You aren’t weak willed, you are simply obeying yourself as of yesterday.
Emotion and effort cover up these postulates. They should be free and clear by now and
indeed should blow at a glance. There are two parts to every postulate. There is the evaluation
of data and the decision itself.
When you pick up an old decision, also pick up the reason you made it. They “blow”
very quickly.
SCAN THROUGH EVERY DECISION, WITH ITS REASON WHY, YOU HAVE MADE………………
From Advanced Procedures and Axioms:
EVALUATION: Postulates are made because of evaluations. Postulates ordinarily do
not lift unless the reason WHY is also contacted. This is brief but very important.
From HCOB 8-20-63:
In my recent surveys of the Tone Arm and its relationship to auditing, it became
apparent that three types of charge existed in a GPM:
1. Charge as an engram (pain and unconsciousness)
2. Charge as Reliable Items.
3. Charge as postulates.
All three must be removed from a GPM. Any incident, wherever it is on the track,
contains postulates (comments, considerations, directions) made by the pc at that
time. Thus in all incidents the pc’s postulates must be called for and removed. To
remove a postulate from any incident, have the pc repeat it until it no longer reacts
on the needle of the meter. If it comes down to a persistent tick get suppress off it
and get it repeated again just as in the case of any Reliable Item in a GPM. DON’T
LEAVE POSTULATES CHARGED. Treat them like GPM Items whether in a GPM or an
engram.
From Handbook for Preclears:
you have read here before and as you have come to suspect in your processing, your
own decisions and evaluations are the most important items in the entire process.
What you decide is LAW to you. What you evaluate is evaluation to you.
SELF-CONFIDENCE is nothing more than belief in one’s ability to decide and in one’s
decisions.
MOST PEOPLE THINK THEY HAVE UNCONSCIOUS MINDS OR
BACKGROUNDS OF MOTIVATION SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE REFUSED THEIR
OWN POWER TO DECIDE.
Negation of decision, refusal of decision, letting others decide are the most powerful
sources of aberration. They apply to any and all subjects.
This section is devoted to picking up each and every postulate you can now reach in
your whole lifetime. A postulate is a decision you make to yourself or to others. You make
one, then afterwards conditions change and you make a second one. This makes the first one
wrong. You make a postulate as cause and then, by having lived through some instants of time,
become an effect of your own cause.
A computer could not work if you kept leaving its totals on the calculator for the next
problem. That is what you do with decisions. They have to be made. Sweep them up before
making more. It is a new method of thinking and one that keeps you happy. No need to be
afraid of making decisions. Simply sweep up old decisions. You make New Year’s resolutions.
And you make them into the teeth of old resolutions and you tell yourself you are
weak-willed. You aren’t weak willed, you are simply obeying yourself as of yesterday.
Emotion and effort cover up these postulates. They should be free and clear by now and
indeed should blow at a glance. There are two parts to every postulate. There is the evaluation
of data and the decision itself.
When you pick up an old decision, also pick up the reason you made it. They “blow”
very quickly.
SCAN THROUGH EVERY DECISION, WITH ITS REASON WHY, YOU HAVE MADE………………
From Advanced Procedures and Axioms:
EVALUATION: Postulates are made because of evaluations. Postulates ordinarily do
not lift unless the reason WHY is also contacted. This is brief but very important.
From HCOB 8-20-63:
In my recent surveys of the Tone Arm and its relationship to auditing, it became
apparent that three types of charge existed in a GPM:
1. Charge as an engram (pain and unconsciousness)
2. Charge as Reliable Items.
3. Charge as postulates.
All three must be removed from a GPM. Any incident, wherever it is on the track,
contains postulates (comments, considerations, directions) made by the pc at that
time. Thus in all incidents the pc’s postulates must be called for and removed. To
remove a postulate from any incident, have the pc repeat it until it no longer reacts
on the needle of the meter. If it comes down to a persistent tick get suppress off it
and get it repeated again just as in the case of any Reliable Item in a GPM. DON’T
LEAVE POSTULATES CHARGED. Treat them like GPM Items whether in a GPM or an
engram.
I meant apparently we don't qualify as therapists or friends, so I'm not sure what she thinks we are. Our category, so to speak. She says (or was that you?) that we can't be therapists because we are just acting like friends, and we can't be friends if we charge $50 an hour.
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
The techniques you use are completely consistent with book 1 practice and the way hubbard is himself heard to audit in the various demo tapes.
Mark A. Baker
NoName
A Girl Has No Name
I don't think I'm dismissing anything as BS. There are forms of therapy where the therapist says absolutely nothing (e.g. analysis), forms where the therapist follows a strict scrpit, all the way to CBT. Hell, even the idea for the emeter was ripped off from Jungian therapy. I happen to prefer CBT for myself, but don't dismiss other legitimate therapies.
Veda
Sponsor
That's reassuring.
From the 1952 book, 'What to Audit', a.k.a. 'History of Man':
"This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years...
"...may I make this simple request? Don't get spectacular until a few of the boys make it. You don't want to be lonesome and you'll need reinforcements if a war gets declared on thetans here. The preclear may think he can do it alone if he gets cleared of a body he'll need more help and company than he thinks. So, again, as a final note on this chapter, let's not go upsetting governments and putting on a show to 'prove' anything to homo sapiens for a while; it's a horrible temptation to knock off hats at fifty yards and read books a couple of countries away and get into the rotogravure section and the Hearst Weeklies but you'll just make it tough on somebody else who is trying to get across this bridge. Let sleeping sapiens snore in the bulk for yet awhile. Then meet some place and decide what to do about him and his two penny wars, his insane and his prisons."
From old timer John Sanborn, interviewed in 1985, concerning events of the 1950s:
"In a Phoenix Congress... he talked about spooky whole track stuff. He had a floodlight on the floor in front of this little platform shining up, because that makes you look ghouly. And his face looked really weird and outer space and really crazy... and he talked weird... I think he was trying to drive people a little bit wacko so they'd fall into his hand a little bit."
Thanks Mark - I did not do the Book 1 Course, or whatever course DementedLRH did where he learned to do prenatals and not ask decision questions.. And then there is New Era Dianetics, which I also do not know. Dilpickle
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
One thing that is apparent listening to demos of hubbard auditing on tapes is that his approach was very casual and free form. That is consistent with book 1. The best auditors I've known have a conversational tone in session.
Moreover, my own experience emphasizes the importance of postulates or personal considerations held by the pc. What you are doing makes sense from that perspective.
Mark A. Baker
NoName
A Girl Has No Name
The first time someone sent me stuff by RVY I was confused. I didn't believe that people regrew hair and teeth as a result of Dn. I had to ask if the person who sent it believe that, and he said, "Hell no!"
So why did he send it? It took me a while to figure out. I think it was to prove what Hubbard intended early on. He wanted repeat customers. He wasn't interested in improving Dianetics. He wanted short-term gains and people who come back for more and more and more.
Demented LRH
Patron Meritorious
What is the title of that book?
When I was a Scientologist (now I'm an anti-Scientologist) I was using the techniques described in the Dianetics Series. By definition, anything else that does not fit the Series is not Dianetics.
The technique described in this thread is not Dianetics. I suspect that Hubbard took a psychological technique that has nothing to do with Dianetics and redressed it in Dianetics garment by adding Scientology terminology to it. He did not change the procedure, but interpreted it in the Scientology terms.
The procedure itself may be valid because Hubbard was not the one who designed it (a retard cannot do scientific research). I cannot judge the procedure because I have never used it, and I do not have a complete understanding of it. But I did plenty of Dianetics auditing, and I can easily distinguish Volume I and II Dianetics from any other procedures.
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
DMSMH - it covers rudimentary ideas and allows for what amounts to an highly flexible approach to technique.
Mark A. Baker
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
I don't understand what that means either, but I believe you are asking me what I think you are, and I don't know the answer to that.
:confused2:
I do know that if you are out there looking for 'issues' in people you will almost always find them and if you chat to people as if you are a 'therapist' (as scientologists tend to) you will often find 'issues' to 'handle' that way too ... I prefer my friends to just be my friends minus the faux therapist routine and I bet if your acquaintances were able to be honest with you about this, they would agree.
Its not cool, and you (sorry, your friend) should stop it.
Disclaimer ... I am a fully fledged evaluating and invalidating "SP" so anything I say should be viewed via that reality (which will soften it or make it invalid for those that have 'issues' with hearing the truth).
phenomanon
Canyon
Auditing is intended to address the reactive mind. It is not meant to run out the analytical mind.
I'll try to find references on this, if you wish.
phenomanon
My thought was that you were running out the reactive mind when you asked for the incident and the decisions.. the WHY question seems to be asking the analytical mind to come to it's conclusions about the incident and decisions. If you read what I posted earlier, Ron said to ask WHY.
I don't understand what that means either, but I believe you are asking me what I think you are, and I don't know the answer to that.
:confused2:
I do know that if you are out there looking for 'issues' in people you will almost always find them and if you chat to people as if you are a 'therapist' (as scientologists tend to) you will often find 'issues' to 'handle' that way too ... I prefer my friends to just be my friends minus the faux therapist routine and I bet if your acquaintances were able to be honest with you about this, they would agree.
Its not cool, and you (sorry, your friend) should stop it.
Disclaimer ... I am a fully fledged evaluating and invalidating "SP" so anything I say should be viewed via that reality (which will soften it or make it invalid for those that have 'issues' with hearing the truth).
Sorry to disagree.. I help people with their problems, and I also talk like a "normal person" about many other things than "therapy".. If someone happens to bring up a problem, mostly I just listen.. Maybe ask them to explain MORE of it or what they think about it. I don't see anything wrong with that, and will continue doing it. Once they get their problem out in the open and view it thoroughly, they tend to figure out themselves what they want to do about it, if anything.. Dilpickle
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
What you describe (above) is pretty normal, whipping out an E-meter or going into DMSMH book one auditing (and charging for it) is not, it's unprofessional faux therapy and perhaps you should be sending your mates to the CofS for that.
What you describe (above) is pretty normal, whipping out an E-meter or going into DMSMH book one auditing (and charging for it) is not, it's unprofessional faux therapy and perhaps you should be sending your mates to the CofS for that.
That is the last place I would send a friend.. I'm not even mean enough to send my enemies there LOL What we do helps people.. that's good enough for me.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
The CofS 'helps' people too (according to them).
Do your friends know you are using scientology/dianetics on them, do you disclose that?