Scientology is all bad

[Smilla]

Service announcement:

Following on from some excellent and very intelligent posts on this thread, we have decided to implement some much needed changes.

1. As of today, there will now be an 'Endangered Poster' category.

2. People will be assigned this status on the basis of their constant and unremitting rightness and good sense.

3. Each endangered poster will have three personal moderators.

4. These posters will have a special pale rose-coloured theme for the forum, which will work in conjunction with the vapourisation of uplifting aromatherapy oils, and the playing of delightful music from various composers. E-meter controlled remote foot massage will be provided.

5. No replies to these posters will be allowed, but every post will be automatically thanked, liked, and blogged.

6. They will have an 'Emergency Action Button' which will automatically freeze HelluvaHoax in alcohol and glycol, and make everybody else feel stupid and go sit in the corner.

Please watch the following short training film until you achieve full conceptual understanding of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiaLOzP1lCA

Oh, and by the way - you're banned.

 

[Panda Termint]

Again?

You never answered my earlier post and questions.

WHO are you talking about?

WHO is violating the rules you keep posting?

Are you talking about me, Panda?

Why don't just say what you are thinking?

WHO? WHAT VIOLATIONS? WHY ARE THE OUTLAWS NOT BEING MODERATED AND MADE TO DELETE THEIR POSTS?

Specifics are good.

See? There's one of my bad-bad-bad posts. Don't read this people! LOL

Reads like a Sec Check, HH, hmmm... specifics?

I didn't see your earlier question(s) but...

I wasn't speaking specifically to you but you do, in my opinion, indulge in Baker-Baiting along with several others. It strikes me as bullying when a number of people jump on board and start forwarding the same personal stuff.

Disagree with Mark Baker by all means (as you already do) but address the substance of the posts rather than the person. I have no right to ask it of you but my preference would be that you (and others) give the personal attacks and ridicule of a fellow ESMBer a rest. Mark is just a guy who's posting here, I don't for a moment believe he's being dishonest or manipulative. He's not the same as either of us but he's not that different either, IMO.

You and I have had this discussion before today. My chirping up on this matter is just my personal opinion. I felt it was time to speak it.

Pax vobiscum.

 

[Emma]

Seems like it was a much less aggressive place at the end of '07 when I first joined. Though certainly not a Martyland by any means.

Yeah, some of us tried to take some of the aggression out of ESMB, especially when dealing with new guys, and it nearly caused WWIII. I've kind of given up now.

 

[Emma]

Smilla, I hope someone sticks up for you one day when you are being bullied instead of ridiculing you. Maybe then you'll understand.

 

[Smilla]

Smilla, I hope someone sticks up for you one day when you are being bullied instead of ridiculing you. Maybe then you'll understand.

Lol.

 

[Demented LRH]

Well, Terril got banned, so I guess that does prove that Scn is all bad.

We really don't have enough Scios here. I'm thinking of slipping into my former identity and having some bedeviling fun getting skewered.

I think ESMB is a harsh place for the newly out that is still a Scio. I think that's unfortunate because there is so much fantastic information on this forum.

Harsh place? This board looks tame to me. You should try WWP.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Smilla, I hope someone sticks up for you one day when you are being bullied instead of ridiculing you. Maybe then you'll understand.

I will!

I believe Smilla's SOH, keen intelligence and caring make her one of ESMB's most loved posters, which are similar traits to your own Emma.

 

[Jquepublic]

Going into the conversation with Mark, I honestly felt that it was the word Scn and those negative associations (we all have them or we wouldn't be here) that were causing the attacks he receives, but this thread has done more to illustrate his points re: use of the term than he could ever have managed on his own. For my part, I'll take any further discussion with him of this nature to PMs to avoid adding any opportunities for pack mentality to set in. And no, I won't name names - you know when you're naughty and don't need me to tell you about it.

Once again, Mark, I apologise for setting you up. It won't happen again.

 

[Gadfly]

It is often NOT the content of Baker's post that are the problem. With all this talk of the need for manners and being polite, MAB is quite notorious for using the "tech" of subtle covert swipes, innuendo, and make-wrong. THAT is all UNNECESSARY, and to me, he gets attacked, just as he often well deserves, NOT FOR HIS IDEAS, but for the WAY HE STATES THEM.

When Hoaxter or anybody else jokes and kids about MAB's use of unusual words and his "writing style" - I get it too. As I am sure other's do. His writing style ALONE often discourages me from even reading some of his stuff. Academic - pretentiously erudite - pedantic - pedagogic . . . . (you pick the appropriate adjective).

Now, I don't think MAB intends these gimmicks as any sort of application of any "tech", but they come across that way nonetheless.

To me, these endless "attacks" between Baker and Veda, and vice versa, are mainly a distraction. To me it is all largely NOISE. I do NOT think that MAB is at all "doing" what Veda (or Infinite) CLAIM that he is doing. At least NOT intentionally, and not as any attempt to "handle anybody" using some sneaky OSA-type "handle tech".

MAB IS just being himself - sometimes sadly, and to his and this board's detriment.

It is so strange because MAB has ZERO support for just about anything having to do with the Scientology organization, and homself cites major flaws and faults with Hubbard. He uses some SMALL aspects of the larger mostly inane subject of Scientology. His VIEW shouldn't cause problems, noise and disagreement here in ESMB. Yet it does. And, as I see it he brings it upon himself because of his own MANNER and STYLE.

Enough of talking about posters. It is rarely of interest to me, but since it started here on this thread, I figured I might try to throw in my own observations on this continuing NOISE situation on ESMB.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Actually the only thing I want is for all those on this board who don't understand what I've actually written yet who repeatedly insist on second guessing my views and interpreting my remarks for others simply to stop.


Mark A. Baker

Personally, for me anyway, it is hard to second guess what you haven't written yet, much less understand it. And let's be clear: that is the ONLY thing you want. I can do that.

Is this prepping for all psychic message boards?


And as a corollary, I don't want you, Mark, second guessing what I haven't thought of yet.

Everyone else, feel free.

 

[Smilla]

Personally, for me anyway, it is hard to second guess what you haven't written yet, much less understand it. And let's be clear: that is the ONLY thing you want. I can do that.

Is this prepping for all psychic message boards?

Come, come - this is no laughing matter. I thought it was, but this thread seems to be reserved for serious accusations and counter-accusations.

Not my cup of tea really.

Selah.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Thanks, I know what you are talking about.

I am extremely aware that some want me to be light, stay light and post light. I know it can make some people uncomfortable when I stray from that request. It can even seem dark or "bullying" and I always notice when someone in the audience gets restless, starts fidgeting or making those "tsk tsk tsk" sounds. I am very aware of when posters are obliquely talking about something I posted that they thought was too too aggressive.

If I am not sure, I just ask them but seldom if ever get a direct answer where they point to me, personally, and i know that they don't do it as a courtesy or out of kindness. But I did ask. LOL.

I also observe when there is a disturbance in the force and a few "Hey Mark is amazing" posts pop up out of nowhere (to the rescue) and try to right the perceived imbalance. I see it all play out very clearly and weigh what people are saying to see if I have gone overboard or if they are talking about someone else's posts.

I did a lot in my life to earn personal freedom and I cherish it. So I enjoy the right to say what I think. It is one of the things I ended up truly detesting about Scientology and Scientologists. The relentless effort to re-route thoughts and speech into a pre-approved pattern. I reject that entirely.

I don't mind that some prefer my "light" humor.

And I don't mind that others prefer my "dark" humor.

In my mind there is no difference. They are both just expressions of what is felt or thought.

Even when I was in Scientology I greatly loved when someone would speak honestly and directly to me without packaging their words into acceptable truths. To me, that is very little value and when I talk to someone I like to be as kind as I can while not giving up who I actually am.

Honestly? In Scientology everyone's communication dial was crazy-glued to the "theta" setting. There was just one radio channel allowed. Only one tv station could be watched. I think it's utter lunacy to live like that.

If someone has something to say what difference does it make if it comes out "light" or "edgy" if it is a real communication?

I always go out of my way to bend over backwards to make people feel comfortable. But if I think they are being dishonest or muddying up the water, that is something I don't passively grit my teeth and hope will pass. I stand up and say something. If I saw someone disseminating Scientology to a wog, if I had the chance (and it has happened often) I would take special time and care to tell the wog what he could expect if he gets involved. That is kindness.

I had enough Scientology lies and spin. I don't accept it. I reject it thoroughly, no matter how it is packaged. That is the humane thing to do in my ethical belief.

I am acutely aware of social protocols and have regular meetings with persons of all stations in life from the street-sweeper to the "top" of major corporations & enterprise and maybe I have beers with guys in a biker gang, too. I don't have any problem modulating and "dialing in" to any wavelength that makes things fun or interesting. I also regularly conduct meetings with very technical, scientific and medical industry pioneers and visionaries too, and there is never any problem. People leave those conferences with smiles and good feelings. Sometimes 'inspired' is a word that people say in thanks. I can do that when I want to, but only if it is appropriate. But if I want to say something I say it. Not out of compulsion or lack of manners--but instead because I think it is a perfectly good and constructive idea that keeps things real.

So, I am glad you like the light stuff and don't mind if you tune out the offensive material or scold me in a post if you have that feeling.

I like when things are honest.

I will tell you that if I am about to post something that is pretty edgy (even for me) I always pause a moment and think if I want to hit the send button. 99.9% of the time I think, "why not? that's what i actually think or feel" and don't try to police my own thoughts. PAUSE.....CLICK.....SEND. LOL

If my style of posting becomes a hazard to the board and moderators decide to send me on temporary or permanent vacation, I don't mind that either. I loved the time I had here and wouldn't change a thing.

I walked in saying what I had to say and I would exit the same way.

I will keep posting until someone crashes the sledgehammer of "he's gone too far this time!" down upon my mouse.

PAUSE...........CLICK.....SEND.

Helly, I love you just the way you are...don't change a thing about your presence here or anywhere, unless you determine that it is in your best self-interest to do so!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Yeah, some of us tried to take some of the aggression out of ESMB, especially when dealing with new guys, and it nearly caused WWIII. I've kind of given up now.

Frankly, I feel that someone, newbie or not, who lectures and holds an intrenched indoctrinated, narrow Scientological viewpoint brings forth aggression in other, more normal (saner) and better socialized people. That's my observation after decades of Scientologist watching...(I really wish there weren't so many of them in my environment).

Bullying is not something I condone, but I see that "peer pressure" does have it's uses for keeping folks from wandering too far outside the bounds of social acceptance and "being normal", in a social sense.

We are free to think whatever we want. We are less free to say whatever we want, and even less free to DO whatever we want. Unless we are sociopaths.

By the way, for Emma, I think we actually had WWIII and survived it!

 

[Claire Swazey]

You said it so much nicer than I did. I agree.

Bill

Great minds think alike!!

Hope you're doing fine today.

 

[Gizmo]

Thanks, I know what you are talking about.

I am extremely aware that some want me to be light, stay light and post light. I know it can make some people uncomfortable when I stray from that request. It can even seem dark or "bullying" and I always notice when someone in the audience gets restless, starts fidgeting or making those "tsk tsk tsk" sounds. I am very aware of when posters are obliquely talking about something I posted that they thought was too too aggressive.

If I am not sure, I just ask them but seldom if ever get a direct answer where they point to me, personally, and i know that they don't do it as a courtesy or out of kindness. But I did ask. LOL.

I also observe when there is a disturbance in the force and a few "Hey Mark is amazing" posts pop up out of nowhere (to the rescue) and try to right the perceived imbalance. I see it all play out very clearly and weigh what people are saying to see if I have gone overboard or if they are talking about someone else's posts.

I did a lot in my life to earn personal freedom and I cherish it. So I enjoy the right to say what I think. It is one of the things I ended up truly detesting about Scientology and Scientologists. The relentless effort to re-route thoughts and speech into a pre-approved pattern. I reject that entirely.

I don't mind that some prefer my "light" humor.

And I don't mind that others prefer my "dark" humor.

In my mind there is no difference. They are both just expressions of what is felt or thought.

Even when I was in Scientology I greatly loved when someone would speak honestly and directly to me without packaging their words into acceptable truths. To me, that is very little value and when I talk to someone I like to be as kind as I can while not giving up who I actually am.

Honestly? In Scientology everyone's communication dial was crazy-glued to the "theta" setting. There was just one radio channel allowed. Only one tv station could be watched. I think it's utter lunacy to live like that.

If someone has something to say what difference does it make if it comes out "light" or "edgy" if it is a real communication?

I always go out of my way to bend over backwards to make people feel comfortable. But if I think they are being dishonest or muddying up the water, that is something I don't passively grit my teeth and hope will pass. I stand up and say something. If I saw someone disseminating Scientology to a wog, if I had the chance (and it has happened often) I would take special time and care to tell the wog what he could expect if he gets involved. That is kindness.

I had enough Scientology lies and spin. I don't accept it. I reject it thoroughly, no matter how it is packaged. That is the humane thing to do in my ethical belief.

I am acutely aware of social protocols and have regular meetings with persons of all stations in life from the street-sweeper to the "top" of major corporations & enterprise and maybe I have beers with guys in a biker gang, too. I don't have any problem modulating and "dialing in" to any wavelength that makes things fun or interesting. I also regularly conduct meetings with very technical, scientific and medical industry pioneers and visionaries too, and there is never any problem. People leave those conferences with smiles and good feelings. Sometimes 'inspired' is a word that people say in thanks. I can do that when I want to, but only if it is appropriate. But if I want to say something I say it. Not out of compulsion or lack of manners--but instead because I think it is a perfectly good and constructive idea that keeps things real.

So, I am glad you like the light stuff and don't mind if you tune out the offensive material or scold me in a post if you have that feeling.

I like when things are honest.

I will tell you that if I am about to post something that is pretty edgy (even for me) I always pause a moment and think if I want to hit the send button. 99.9% of the time I think, "why not? that's what i actually think or feel" and don't try to police my own thoughts. PAUSE.....CLICK.....SEND. LOL

If my style of posting becomes a hazard to the board and moderators decide to send me on temporary or permanent vacation, I don't mind that either. I loved the time I had here and wouldn't change a thing.

I walked in saying what I had to say and I would exit the same way.

I will keep posting until someone crashes the sledgehammer of "he's gone too far this time!" down upon my mouse.

PAUSE...........CLICK.....SEND.

Yep.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Reads like a Sec Check, HH, hmmm... specifics?

I didn't see your earlier question(s) but...

I wasn't speaking specifically to you but you do, in my opinion, indulge in Baker-Baiting along with several others. It strikes me as bullying when a number of people jump on board and start forwarding the same personal stuff.

Disagree with Mark Baker by all means (as you already do) but address the substance of the posts rather than the person. I have no right to ask it of you but my preference would be that you (and others) give the personal attacks and ridicule of a fellow ESMBer a rest. Mark is just a guy who's posting here, I don't for a moment believe he's being dishonest or manipulative. He's not the same as either of us but he's not that different either, IMO.

You and I have had this discussion before today. My chirping up on this matter is just my personal opinion. I felt it was time to speak it.

Pax vobiscum.

Well, thanks. But.....

I am not sure why you are concerned about the responses that Mark Baker gets to what he posts.

It seems to me that if he is getting responses he doesn't like he can do something about his posts. Or just continue soliciting that same kind of response.

I see that you wish that I would change how I post. Do you also wish Mark Baker would change how he posts? Or is there some reason that he has a free get-out-of-jail card despite his frequent caustic insinuations and nasty insults?

I never asked for anyone to change their posts.

If there is some rule I am breaking why isn't there some official moderation of what I am saying?

Or am I perilously close to going on vacation and this is an early warning system where I am being asked to come to my senses?

I don't get it. So my posts are sometimes edgy. So what? Are we living in some old people's retirement village where the kids are told to keep the music low and tuned into the classical station? If so, duuuuuude I am so in the wrong place.

I don't bother with 99% of the Scientologists who want to promote their tech here. I don't even post on threads that are notoriously tech-talk zones like the Apollo thread because I know I would derail their fun.

The only people (besides Baker) that I ever took exception to their tech-spew enough to bother posting responses to were Sneakster and Vinaire, who were both wackjobs. Yeah, that's probably ad hom and a violation, but I don't see any difference in calling a wackjob a wackjob any more than calling Hubbard a criminal con man. It's just what it is. And the great besmircher Marty is called some juicy things too, but nobody seems to care. And ESMB is a gold medal winner in the Ad Hom COB event, an achievement which they can rightly be proud of.

Yeah so Mark is an innocent poster and I am the one stirring up the problems, right?

Well, okay, proceed with the com ev then. Let's see how those facts check out.

It's really simple. If I need to be reported and moderated to stop what I am posting, then do it. If I am told that my posts are not fitting in with the model of ESMB any longer, I won't gripe. I still loved posting and hanging here before I wore out my welcome. We already know that I am not going to be told what to post, so I won't make a fuss if that's what it is.

Let's get it done whatever the verdict is. I don't like being unofficially moderated, it's a buzzkill. And I came to have fun, so whatever ya gotta do, just do it.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

For me I sort of have a somwhat different thing also going on....

If my wife of all this many years - and remains not only the love of my life but shines the light of my life - makes my favorite of all times meals & selects my favorite Champagne to go with it and mid meal cuts not only a loud but a somehat stinky fart do I whip out a pistol and shoot her dead ? No.

Back in the dayin the cult we talked about " a cushion of ARC " where as an auditor with your PC you can do most anything in session and your PC hardly noticed but taking a double or triple red tag off somebody elses PC if ya breathed at the wrong time that session would get wrapped around your head. Anybody else remember that ?

Anyway, I've read HUNDREDS ( of not thousands ) of post by HH. Ye Gods, I quote him in my siggy ! ) and whatever post apparently has some fellow posters all up in arms I haven't even read. ( And ,yes, Emma, I HAVE been the one in the barrel everyone is taking a shot at and no one is defending me - so, yes, I do know hat it feels like.)
But even it was a turd in the punch bowl ( which I seriously doubt ) he gets a pass at my house.

MAB ? To , he can be pedantic & come off as wanting everybody to know he thinks he is the smartest guy in any room. ( I've learned when someone tells me how Christian they are to keep my hand ON my wallet - and much the same with anyone who feles compelled to tell me their opinion of themself .) I can cut MAB some slack but not the kind of slack I'd give HH if I thought HH needed cut some slack ( and I don't ).

MAB, bless his heart, I believe knows full well the water he is wading into and is a big boy ( some other posters on some other threads wade in knowing not what they are about or how deep the water is ) and in that sense, what not let him fend for himself ?
He is bright.He knows what he is doing. Give him some credit - and like ALL of us he ain't perfect. Maybe everynow & then MAB can put foot in mouth ( I sure do with great frequency ! ) and maybe so can HH.

It is not my place to try to tell the owners of the board or the mods or other posters what they 'ought to / ought not' to do....but sometimes I wish people would let other people have their say & let 'em move on.

I've been where expressing oneself wasn't allowed and it ultimately didn't work for me so I'd rather be banned from here than muzzled by fear of having my say will get me banned ( and my say make damn well be wrong, unpopular, and thoroughly jumped on by many others - and all that is OK ).

I've had my say.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

6. They will have an 'Emergency Action Button' which will automatically freeze HelluvaHoax in alcohol and glycol, and make everybody else feel stupid and go sit in the corner.

I was going to post a lot more of those but the room here is getting very chilly and I am concerned that I should conserve some of of those laughing thingies in case I need to use them as firewood so I don't freeze to death.

 

[PirateAndBum]

OK now this thread has been completely derailed.

HH, your comm ev was held and the findings are as follows:





HH is KhaKhan, in Power and the comm ev members found the bill of particulars to be non-particular and therefore virtual and by the laws of physics and time-travel we find that dinosaurs may have become entrained in beteerific whizbangerry which also has been found to be virtual and subject to quantum background flux absorbtion.

Carry on!

 

[Claire Swazey]

Yeah, some of us tried to take some of the aggression out of ESMB, especially when dealing with new guys, and it nearly caused WWIII. I've kind of given up now.

Some of this is undoubtedly due to "territorial imperative".