Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betrayed

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Solo nots has some stuff like the BT clearing procedure that is not in the OT V nots auditor pack. And some of the solo nots stuff is edited from the Nots pack. If I remember BT Clearing procedure is like about ten steps long and it has specific reads that have to occur at the end of the steps. I hardly ever ran it so recalling it isn't easy, but it is asking the bt to look at if he has pictures and things, and asking if someone gave him them, and asking if he has some sort of duty, and asking him if he was mocking it up, at which point he goes clear. It only works on single bt's, not clusters, or the solo auditor himself, because he's a composite being.

You see, there are two (or more) main ways to run solo nots:

A) you do the What are you? and the Who are you? steps on a bt till it blows.

There are stuff like handling sleeping, or hypnotized bts, ghosts, bt's hiding behind bts, bt's in the past or a little out of pt a bit. These are remedies for specific situations or conditions. There are the solo nots correction li8st, the pts correction list, the date locate list ( things like electric shock, impact etc. that forms clusters) int ext list ( with additional buttons like: went on? - because a BT went on a body)

B) there is advanced procedure. I never ran that, though I've read it. So my recall on it is spotty. It's more evaluative - telling the bt you're you and if he doesn't cog and blow, then you can run him on the BT clearing procedure or some other steps.

There is a very good reason why there is no solo nots stuff on the net - you can't take it out of the course room. Each pack has a plug and it is either plugged into a jack on the table, or it is plugged into the file cabinet. When the pack is unplugged, the course room door won't open, because the door lock is wired to the circuit with the packs. Nobody can go in or out when the red light goes on because a pack is unplugged.

The only way it could get on the net is for someone who is on nots to go in the course room on break, when most everybody is out of the room and photograph the packs.

Have you ever heard of the pack drill? At the beginning and end of the day the whole class helps distribute the course packs. they line up, in the AM, to get packs and carry them to the tables and plug them in or at the end of the evening, to unplug them and carry them to the course admin to be replaced in the filing cabinets, and plugged back in. During that time no-one can enter or leave the course room. In the same cabinet they have the CC, OT 1,2, 3 and NOTs auditor packs you can check out if you need them.

Mimsey

 

[RogerB]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Shit, Mims . . . it certainly has changed since I did S/NOTs . . . but then that was like near 35 years ago!!! (about 32-3 to be precise)

Even some of the R/Ds you mention I don't recall being part of the parade . . .

Rog

 

[RogerB]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Got sparked to read this whole thread . . . wot's with you bums . . . no one mentioned that famous checking question that was so valuable when I was messing with this stuff . . . remember? the BT thingie check didn't read on Blown or copy but yet as the auditor you could not perceive its presence or WTF . . . the check then became: "Submerged???"

So then into diving mode you'd go to get it . . .

Personally, on the Blown? question I in fact checked, not the BT who as Phenom has said is likely gonzo, but myself and my "case" where it (presumably) was . . . and if blown I and the case would read . . . I was not contacting to BT to ask it.

But after a while dealing with all this traffic it got to the point where I simply ran on perception and confirmation . . . I very, very rarely had to ask or check, "Blown?" I would simply note the fact of my knowing it had blown on the W/S and the confirming FN.

R

 

[phenomanon]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

I don't believe a millimeter of this stuff, but I do find it interesting to know about. My question is; if you assume people are infested with all these souls, would at least a couple of them realize their neighbor and team mate had left? Wouldn't the lead soul? It just seems with a crowd of hundreds of BTs there would be some sense of togetherness or community (I can imagine, too!) and in a crowded bus, everyone notices when someone gets off.

Yeah. If you 'free' one BT from a Cluster, some or all of the others in that Cluster will break out, too. You have already discerned that it is Cluster of BTs by the asking of an earlier question. The Cluster will have been formed by several or many BTs with a mutual incident.
So, you made a good observation there, Anony.

 

[phenomanon]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Dunno about Solo NOTs, but I vaguely remember in the III materials just checking for any 1s left? copies? and it (two separate things to check) would either read in which case one took it up (assuming something there), or it F/N'd and one went on to greener pastures. I don't recall having to check copies yes? no? and having to get a READ on the no part if there are none showing up.

Oh, you asked where to check. From memory that was routinely done after handling the final BT from a cumulative cluster, checking for any left from anywhere down the chain.

(Note: I'm not asserting this makes sense in reality: I'm merely answering the lady's question.)

Paul

I am not asking the question bc I am asserting the level makes sense in Reality. I post the tek on the level, and just got curious if COS is now having "Blown" being the last Q, then where is the rest of the handling? The "are there any BTs Remaining from this Cluster? is asked after you have gotten the 'blow' of a BT belonging to a Cluster of them. After the whole Cluster has broken up, and any other BTs from it are "blown", and there are no BTs remaining, then the Auditor asks if there are "any copies?".
Is this handling still in place?
I'd love to see the current pak. Sounds like a hoot.

 

[phenomanon]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Perhaps a convenient place to jump in.

Did OT 2&3 twice with CC platens in between. Really lots of reads.

Vaguely touched on NOTs but have no interest at all in doing them
or Excal.

I have seen others do very well on these and have posted quite a few
of their success stories.

Why do we differ?

Sorry, Terrill, What are you talking about?

 

[uncover]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Life is so beautiful when you don´t waste your time on the useless - and only introverting - hunt for non-existent BT´s and clusters. Fortunately I never wasted one second of my life for this insane-Hubbard BS.

Just saying....

 

[phenomanon]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Xenu is a lie! Think about it for a moment, and you'll be fine.

What does Xemu have to do with NOTs?

 

[Terril park]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Sorry, Terrill, What are you talking about?

Wasn't responding to your post particularly. Just making the point
that even though NOTs is not wanted by myself, I see that others can seem
to get good results from it.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Shit, Mims . . . it certainly has changed since I did S/NOTs . . . but then that was like near 35 years ago!!! (about 32-3 to be precise)

Even some of the R/Ds you mention I don't recall being part of the parade . . .

Rog

Really?

sleeping bt =- what do you do to wake up? then the auditor does it
hypnotized bt = 54321 snap your fingers
Not responding - hello's and ok's on the BT ( auditor putting "his" answers in him on his leg)
Black mass / black BT - look behind the mass for the BT that is holding it there
Ghost - I think you ask him who he is being? don't recall exactly Or when did he assume that beingness
Clusters - asses list of cluster causing impacts, take biggest read and date locate it, e/s if needed
General trouble - assess a SNRL ( solo nots repair list)
If PTS reads on the SNRL do the PTS corr list
BT clear procedure
BT won't leave, tell him to go into the sky and decide
use Theta hand to cut strings holding him in
look a little out of PT (in the past) to find more
vary the areas
look close and far
your meter is your guide - I used this a lot on BT's when I didn't hear their responses - I ask who are you and it BD f/n, I'd write down "me" though I never heard it
Copies
stuck on the track? jolt them earlier
ridge - look for bt's in the ridge
resisting change - when did you decide not to change

If I think of more I'll add them

It's interesting - I just scanned the nots pack on line to add a few and there are some differences between Audited nots and solo nots that I would have used when I was soloing. If you want to see it go to ot6 on this site http://www.american-buddha.com/scientology.NEWOT6.2.pdf

Mimsey

 

[Anonycat]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

So one person says the needle moves because of sweat and one person says not. And you want to believe Volney Mathieson's opinion. You are welcome to do so, even though that is not very scientific. He says the hands have sweat glands that jet out bits of sweat in a microsecond timeframe. Ok, an unsubstantiated claim. How would you test that? A high speed camera? I million frames per second. Maybe nowadays, but 1960? No, I don't think so.

Now of course if you say it is true because the needle moves, all you are saying is that the needle moves and therefore you have to sweat at that speed. No. You are guessing the effect based on a pre-conceived idea.

And he doesn't mention "un-sweating". How does the body vacuum clean up all these sweat droplets at the same speed? And that's just for a simple read. What about floating needles, theta bops, stage four needles, tone arm blow downs? The sweat and muscle movement "theory" of meter activity is not credible. As a solo auditor, you can feel how much pressure you are applying to the cans, and when the TA blows down, as it does (frequently) during session, you would know if you were dicking about with the cans. So no, I don't need LRH to explain meter action, and I don't need Volney Mathieson's simplistic pseudo-scientific explanations either.

I am a Chartered Electronics Designer and have done in excess of 800 hours auditing (as the auditor) so I can think and observe for myself.

It happens, that I'm with an old friend who did go on staff, did auditing and got auditing, and it was also back in the mark 5 and V8 can days. He agrees that sweat cannot evaporate while holding a can (of course a sweaty hand can be wiped dry) but we also agreed on a point he made - no one knows what the meter is showing. It certainly isn't reading mass, or other wild ideas of Hubbards'.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

. . . but we also agreed on a point he made - no one knows what the meter is showing. It certainly isn't reading mass, or other wild ideas of Hubbards'.

There's a general agreement that it is showing changes in resistance, whatever is causing that. But I don't know if that is wholly true: I suspect that a fall is sometimes caused by a change in current, the additional current not coming from the battery in the meter.

Paul

 

[strativarius]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

There's a general agreement that it is showing changes in resistance, whatever is causing that. But I don't know if that is wholly true: I suspect that a fall is sometimes caused by a change in current, the additional current not coming from the battery in the meter.

Paul

I seem to remember reading that the circuitry of an e-meter was effectively that of a 'Wheatstone Bridge'.

A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. Its operation is similar to the original potentiometer. It was invented by Samuel Hunter Christie in 1833 and improved and popularized by Sir Charles Wheatstone in 1843.

Edited to add: Although it makes me feel uncomfortable to say this, having spent hundreds of hours attached to an e-meter myself, there's no doubt in my mind that what you are thinking does influence the motion of the needle. If I'm going to accuse Scientologists of being unable to see anything other than what they have been conditioned to see, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't admit that much. What is actually going on there though I haven't the faintest idea. Mental mass? Sounds highly unlikely.

 

[Anonycat]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

There's a general agreement that it is showing changes in resistance, whatever is causing that. But I don't know if that is wholly true: I suspect that a fall is sometimes caused by a change in current, the additional current not coming from the battery in the meter.

Paul

Maybe that ... or maybe something else. I guess one could test it by measuring the current on their hand, and use a device with voltage output and very good control of output, match the amount you're sending out to match the amount measured on the hand, and send that to a can. That way you could see.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Maybe that ... or maybe something else. I guess one could test it by measuring the current on their hand, and use a device with voltage output and very good control of output, match the amount you're sending out to match the amount measured on the hand, and send that to a can. That way you could see.

You perhaps realize, Hubbard, with his penchant for creating new names, muddied the water by calling the units on a meter TA. Had he been less enamored with his wordsmithery, he could have used volts or amps or ohms - what ever the standard unit is for the change in resistance - IE "I had a 3 ohm blowdown" instead of "I had a 3 division blow down."

The meter does a perfectly good job of measuring changes in resistance - you can take a multi meter - mechanics and electronics guys use them to see how much juice your alternator is putting out., etc. I tried it one time - clipped a pair of cans to the leads of a multi meter, and you had a working e-meter. It was about as sensitive as a box of rocks, but the "ta" would rise and fall just like an e-meter. All Hubbard did was make it really sensitive to extremely small changes and had a needle that would show them.

Those guys who claim the meter reads on sweat would "come a cropper" if they saw Paul's under water meter reads video. Talk about a water is wet cognition!

Mimsey

 

[Anonycat]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

You perhaps realize, Hubbard, with his penchant for creating new names, muddied the water by calling the units on a meter TA. Had he been less enamored with his wordsmithery, he could have used volts or amps or ohms - what ever the standard unit is for the change in resistance - IE "I had a 3 ohm blowdown" instead of "I had a 3 division blow down."

The meter does a perfectly good job of measuring changes in resistance - you can take a multi meter - mechanics and electronics guys use them to see how much juice your alternator is putting out., etc. I tried it one time - clipped a pair of cans to the leads of a multi meter, and you had a working e-meter. It was about as sensitive as a box of rocks, but the "ta" would rise and fall just like an e-meter. All Hubbard did was make it really sensitive to extremely small changes and had a needle that would show them.

Those guys who claim the meter reads on sweat would "come a cropper" if they saw Paul's under water meter reads video. Talk about a water is wet cognition!

Mimsey

It does read sweat, and that's exactly what is one of the aspects of a polygraph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_skin_response

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

I have a few underwater metering videos from 2009. The fact that the meter reads where the hands are separated from the cans by an inch or more of water shows that sweat has nothing to do with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR5Kmw2zHhw

Paul

No, it doesn't.

More precisely, the phrase "has nothing to do with it" is vague.

Assuming your video and description of the experiment are accurate, you have shown that changes in sweat are not necessary to needle movement.

You have not shown that changes in sweat (among, perhaps many other things) are sufficient for needle movement.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

It does read sweat, and that's exactly what is one of the aspects of a polygraph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_skin_response

Well, Wikipedia says so, so it must be true. Contrary physical evidence be damned!

Paul

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

It does read sweat, and that's exactly what is one of the aspects of a polygraph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_skin_response

That is an incorrect statement. Sweat can affect the amount of resistance by being a better conductor, and giving you a lower ( false TA in Hubbard's terms) but it is not what you are looking for in the meter's responses. Quite the opposite, you are trying to neutralize it's affects. Lots of sweat drops the ta, and conversely a lack of it raises the ta. That lack is handled by using hand cream, to create a connection. Too much is handled by spraying the hands with antiperspirant, or wiping the hands off.

A big problem with those who use wrist straps is the gradual lowering of the TA as the moisture, trapped under the straps, can't evaporate. A really easy fix is to use a copper mesh for a wrist strap - it lets the moisture evaporate, and the ta stays in range all session long.

A polygraph uses many inputs, but are they all useful? I saw a video of a polygraph in action and the operator asked the person a personal question, and the needles showed a perfect, by the book, instant read. Did all of the other needles drop like that one did? No.

Obviously, they have a different goal than an auditor, or a solo auditor. The Scio's are using the meter in the pursuit and identification of mental phenomena so the can be addressed by auditing. The John Laws are trying to pin the crime on a crim or some such. I haven't studied those instruments so I don't know how accurate they are in detecting lies - I believe they aren't admissible in a court of law, indicating they ain't too spot on.

I have been up and down the false ta road, and anybody who believes it reads on sweat - not false ta - but all of the mental reads are really caused by sweating and unsweating is fooling them selves and are pandering false information. This is a peeve I have with Tony Ortega, and if I were ever to go to NYC I would put him on a meter and bring him to understanding. I hate it every time he espouses that BS. For such a fine reporter, why can't he get this simple fact right?

Grrrrr.

Mimsey

 

[Anonycat]

Re: Scientology NOTs auditing can be harmful because BTs become angry and feel betray

Well, Wikipedia says so, so it must be true. Contrary physical evidence be damned!

Paul

But ... but ... it's used globally.

In 1938, Leonarde Keeler further refined the polygraph when he added a third physiological measuring component for the detection of deception called the psychogalvanometer, a component that measured changes in a subject's galvanic skin resistance during questioning, and in doing so, thus signaling the birth of the polygraph as we know it today. In 1939, Leonarde Keeler patented what is now understood as the prototype of the modern polygraph. Today, Leonarde Keeler is known as the father of polygraph.

In 1960, Cleve Backster, building upon John Reid's Control Question Technique, developed the Backster Zone Comparison Technique (ZCT), a polygraph technique which primarily involved an alteration of the Reid question sequencing. Backster also introduced a quantification system of chart analysis, thus making it more objective and scientific than before. This system for the numerical evaluation of the physiological data collected from the polygraph charts has been adopted as standard procedure in the polygraph field today.

Withstanding more than a century of research, development and widespread use, the polygraph test remains the most effective means of verifying the truth and detecting deception.

The whole bit is worth a read: http://www.polytest.org/lie-detector-polygraph-information.asp

Homepage of site: http://www.polytest.org/index.asp