Shooting Stars

CO2

Patron Meritorious
Re: Scientology…The Designer Cult

First off, love you Face (in a purely platonic way :eyeroll:)! While I am a newbie and never in, I've been lurking for a few years and your threads and insightful comments on all things scilon and not have intrigued me and kept me coming to this site. Figured its time to sign up and say what I think finally.

Now for the current topic, I was a late boomer from early sixties and am probably guilty of the boomer mentality/behavior in some cases. My children (4) are of the Gen-Y or Millennial era. While those are the more academic designations for that era, I don't think it does service to the real behavior that resulted from the effects of the boomers.

Specifically you have spoken of the great wealth accumulated by boomers, I could not agree more. My experience has been that because of that wealth, boomers seemed content to provide their children whatever they wanted without no regard to consequences, or the fact that they needed to earn what was received. I believe this comes from the ability for them to give their kids things that they never could have, hoping that it will make their way in life a bit easier, and not have to struggle as they once did.

The result IMHO is that the parents did not instill the core values of earning ones way through life (both monetarily, emotionally, and mentally), the expectation being "my parents will take care of me if I get into a bind" mentality. Me and the wife are guilty as charged (Mom gave, I protested and lost :duh:), at least on the monetary side. All of my kids have grown up well adjusted and financially independent (the 2008 market crash really woke them up when the Mom/Dad money tree died!). Was also a reality check for the Wife when she realized she had to go back to work, and all of a sudden she was being asked to give HER money to the kids! I love her to death, but it was quite the wake up call.

So now to my point, I continue to see this behavior over and over with my friends and peers, and that is why I prefer to call this era the "Entitlement" generation. We seems to have bred out all of the important things our parents, parents-parents, etc. installed in us: Get educated, get a job.... any job that pays (my kids tried the "I wouldn't be caught dead working at McDonald's" thing... guess who won that battle), work hard and work your way up, respect the money you earned and put it to good use, respect others as you would have them respect you, and never place yourself above another human being.

My hope is that the recent economic trends enable the Gen-X/Entitlement generation to learn from our mistakes, and restore the values we were instilled with by previous generations.

To quote a wise man... just my 2 cents!

McLovin

BRAVO!!
 

CO2

Patron Meritorious
Re: Scientology…The Designer Cult

Yeah, Face, I'm a Gen-Xer and I can't say I have a whole lotta love for the Boomers as a group. I am friends with individuals, but as a group, they are a bunch of self-absorbed jerkwads. In academic science in particular (my bailiwick), the Boomers are sitting on all the prime tenured jobs long past the time they have run out of new ideas. Fresh Gen-X and early Millenial talent can't get a position and are stuck adjuncting. The Boomers got all that wonderful aid to go to college, and once they got into power they jacked up the prices thinking that grants and loans will cover the cost as it did for them. Well, there is only so much aid out there, so Gen X and Gen Y are stuck with huge debt right outta school that they never faced. Boomers in Finance caused the recent meltdown. Back in the 60s, they popularized the scourge of drugs in the middle class. Every decade, wherever they happened to be in the power structure, they massively shit in their own nests, and now the Gen-Xers have to deal with it.

This post has bugged me for days.

My first response is:

Would you like a little fromage with your whine?

Cheese_of_the_month.jpg


My second response would be:

Our youngest daughter's boyfriend (they live together) is doing the PhD thing at a well known California school. One of his papers has already been made Classified by the DOD. His (oh God, I've forgotten the right word) teacher counselor facilitator tutor guy has had my daughter doing talks to his students once a year for the past four. He told her that she should write a book. She is actively considering this.

We have seven kids, give or take (not all biological). Of that group, two have masters degrees and one a BA. We or they don't owe a penny in student loans. The youngest is 34.

As for my wife and I, neither of us did college. We've taken some real estate courses here and there, but that is about it. My wife started a K-12 private school about 37 years ago, which she is still the Chairman of the Board of. I've run it when she was pregnant.

One of our high school graduate children makes mid six figures in high tech.

Another makes seven or eight figures a year with a high school diploma gotten when she was fourteen.

As far as drugs go, I'm proud of my drug use. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll get you out of your head, out of your little box. I was born in 1950, and when I was fourteen I was wearing a "Let's Legalize Pot" pin at junior high school. I was reading Timothy Leary, Alan Watts, Aldous Huxley, and many more in that same time period. I make no apology whatsoever for following my own drummer.

A guy, who grew up about two miles down the street from where I currently live, was a little younger than me. They just filmed a movie in our hood on his life starring Ashton Kutcher, it will be out soon. About a guy, who changed the world, Steve Jobs.

I can't speak for you, but I love computers, iPods, iPhones, iPads and everything that goes with them.

You might want to take a second look at what you could be grateful for from the boomer gen.

It is never what someone else did to you. It is always my, yours, their responsibility to create the life you want. There is always a way. Part of the way is getting out of your box, and really looking around. Basic Zen.

[video=youtube;2EdLasOrG6c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EdLasOrG6c[/video]
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology…The Designer Cult

First off, love you Face (in a purely platonic way :eyeroll:)! While I am a newbie and never in, I've been lurking for a few years and your threads and insightful comments on all things scilon and not have intrigued me and kept me coming to this site. Figured its time to sign up and say what I think finally.

Now for the current topic, I was a late boomer from early sixties and am probably guilty of the boomer mentality/behavior in some cases. My children (4) are of the Gen-Y or Millennial era. While those are the more academic designations for that era, I don't think it does service to the real behavior that resulted from the effects of the boomers.

Specifically you have spoken of the great wealth accumulated by boomers, I could not agree more. My experience has been that because of that wealth, boomers seemed content to provide their children whatever they wanted without no regard to consequences, or the fact that they needed to earn what was received. I believe this comes from the ability for them to give their kids things that they never could have, hoping that it will make their way in life a bit easier, and not have to struggle as they once did.

The result IMHO is that the parents did not instill the core values of earning ones way through life (both monetarily, emotionally, and mentally), the expectation being "my parents will take care of me if I get into a bind" mentality. Me and the wife are guilty as charged (Mom gave, I protested and lost :duh:), at least on the monetary side. All of my kids have grown up well adjusted and financially independent (the 2008 market crash really woke them up when the Mom/Dad money tree died!). Was also a reality check for the Wife when she realized she had to go back to work, and all of a sudden she was being asked to give HER money to the kids! I love her to death, but it was quite the wake up call.

So now to my point, I continue to see this behavior over and over with my friends and peers, and that is why I prefer to call this era the "Entitlement" generation. We seems to have bred out all of the important things our parents, parents-parents, etc. installed in us: Get educated, get a job.... any job that pays (my kids tried the "I wouldn't be caught dead working at McDonald's" thing... guess who won that battle), work hard and work your way up, respect the money you earned and put it to good use, respect others as you would have them respect you, and never place yourself above another human being.

My hope is that the recent economic trends enable the Gen-X/Entitlement generation to learn from our mistakes, and restore the values we were instilled with by previous generations.

To quote a wise man... just my 2 cents!

McLovin

Welcome Mclovin!:wave: Sure enough glad that you've come out of the stands and entered the arena of this here First Class Rodeo. :yes:

Your most kind comments re: Ole Face here humble me to the core:blush:...thank you so much. :yes:

LOVED
your post...GREAT STUFF! :clap:

YES! IMO, too many of our generation gave too much material stuff and too little substance to our children...myself included at times. Fortunately, my children were instilled with and absorbed enough values that they have fared well and I am most proud of them. I think that too many Boomers relied on TV, toys and gadgets to keep their children "Manageable", entertained and not requiring "Attention" from their parents. I tried to raise my children with a love of learning, reading and the Liberal and Fine Arts and consequently they are not TV watchers but readers and doers. Also, the reliance on fast food and loss of important traditions...such as Family meals...has played a part in the current pervading conditions. My children were raised eating "real food", know what real food is, how to cook well and prefer real food.


Double yes!! I have several friends that have been teaching children for over 30 years in Public Schools and one for 40 years in a Private School. They would all concur that not not only made your point well...you nailed it. One of my daughters taught in an upscale Private School for awhile about 10 years ago and quit...not so much because she couldn't work with the children but, mostly, because of the parents rudeness and Self right righteous interference regarding their "Little Johnny Special". She loved teaching Art to children but just got to the point that it wasn't worth the emotional pain and aggravation. She was quite good at it...She taught Fine Art and holds a BFA (with Highest Honors) from a Major University and an MFA (with Honors) from a Fine Arts School that is regarded as one of the top in the world.

My hope, as well. "Example" and "walking the walk, not just talk" is sooo important in rearing children. My children saw wait staff, clerks, service providers and others always treated with respect, thoughtfulness and manners. My children raised with constant reminders of the "Golden Rule" and the Credo, "If you want others regard you as interesting or interested in you, you must be truly interested in them and learn about them, because everyone has their own personal "Story" that is fascinating and interesting." I have many flaws but my children made me a better person...I did not want to be a bad example and inadvertently or carelessly impart rude, selfish and damaging behavior habits to them.

Looking forward to more great stuff, mclovin. :thumbsup:

Face:)
 

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors
Re: Scientology…The Designer Cult

Sex, drugs, and rock and roll get you out of your head, out of your little box.

While I did know a few people who flipped out on acid, I also knew scores who were saved from the SO by it. That should be in Guinness as the world's best drug side effect.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Re: Scientology…The Designer Cult

Example" and "walking the walk, not just talk" is sooo important in rearing children. My children saw wait staff, clerks, service providers and others always treated with respect, thoughtfulness and manners. My children raised with constant reminders of the "Golden Rule" and the Credo, "If you want others regard you as interesting or interested in you, you must be truly interested in them and learn about them, because everyone has their own personal "Story" that is fascinating and interesting." I have many flaws but my children made me a better person...I did not want to be a bad example and inadvertently or carelessly impart rude, selfish and damaging behavior habits to them.

Looking forward to more great stuff, mclovin. :thumbsup:

Face:)

My wife & I were just having a discussion of serving like waiters do & subservient. I pointed out to here with some particular people that we have dined out with that the next time they started talking down to the waiter I was going to call them on it right then & insist they stop it or we leave mid meal.

So many judge almost automatically and seemingly without thought. Yeah, I'll thow the guy on the curb a few bucks & hope he buys a burger. We all got where we are ( and aren't ) somehow & many of us are on a path & hardly at our distination.

And someone mention the accumulation of wealth. To me being wealthy ain't a bad thing at all. Like all other things most anything can be taken to a level that isn't good but it booze or bucks.

I know a guy who came from an impoverished background & he came to this country & became a self made multi-millionaire & is still in his 20s. Yeah, that Ferrari he drives looks real flashy,as do his custome made clothes, etc. Few people know he built 400 homes in his native country for the homeless as he doesn't talk about that.

I've seen so many people who were really really fine people yet it wasn't evident in just a glance.

People are the most fascinating thing on this planet & I'm glad I'm one of 'em & out among 'em.

Thank ya'll for being here !

Seriously, Thank you !
 

Poison Ivy

Patron
Re: Shooting Stars, Part Two

Wow. Obviously reading this a couple years after you posted, but I can't help but see the direct parallels between this L Ron Clusterfuck and the way Marc Headley described COB's micromanaging of Golden Age Productions.

The Littlest Dictator apparently learned at The Master's Knee.

Being in the entertainment field myself for many years, and knowing all the various levels of expertise needed to complete any technical production (i.e. bringing a creative endeavor through conception, creation, production, and distribution phases), your posts about the making of POS (such an apropos acronym!) make me face palm again and again and again.:duh::duh::duh::duh:
 

Orglodyte

Patron with Honors
Re: Shooting Stars, Part Two

... your posts about the making of POS (such an apropos acronym!) make me face palm again and again and again.:duh::duh::duh::duh:

Hi PI! Glad to see you here. There is a unique tragicomic quality to this story, like a real life Christopher Guest - Harry Shearer - Gene Levy mockumentary.

I could see that ensemble sending up Scientology pretty well. Fred Willard as Captain Bill!
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
So glad to see you relative newbies found this thread. It is a corker, isn't it?

There are so many threads like this on ESMB. Some truly informed people have been here and contributed a lot of great information.

Look for these posters. They've shared some great stuff.

Dart Smohen
Alan Walters
Cowboy
afaceinthecrowd

... and so many others. But start with these.

Enjoy!

TG1
 

Deeana

Patron with Honors
Never In here. Wow! What a thread! And what a fantastic writer!

Face, thank you for writing about your experiences.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hello all Y'all. :wave:

Didn't know quite where to post the following and have decided to post it here. I've started only a handful of Threads during my 4 years on ESMB and didn't feel this warranted starting another one but wanted to share this with my ESMB friends. In a way, it's kinda germane to Shooting Stars as it is some more Epilogue to some of My Story I told here...about 2 of my daughters that were born in the SO and their mother and I took them away from the SO/Scn and raised them as "Wogs" so as to give them a chance at Life.

One of them has an MFA from a world renowned Arts Institute and is an Art Teacher, Studio Artist and Design Consultant for Habitat for Humanity. The other has an MA from a top tier University in Special Education, Deaf & Blind and teaches "Helen Keller Kids" at a State Residence School. They are lovely, giving and very special women.

They recently both announced their engagements and will be wed this summer (neither they or their Bo's have ever been married).

The Artist's Betrothed has 3 MS Degrees and is a Project Manager for a Private "Think Tank", developing the "Next Generation" of Geophysical Imaging Software.

The Teacher's Betrothed is an Assistant Attorney General for Medical Insurance/Drug Company Fraud.

I'm sooo happy for and proud of my daughters and my soon to be Son-in-Laws and they are as fine a fellers and Men as a father could hope for a daughter to wed...no, they're actually like the gals they're marrying...more than a father could hope for.

There IS Life after the SO and Scn. Real Life...without "magic potions", "protective blinders", "instant enlightenment", "prepackaged ideas" or "spoon-fed thoughts". It takes time, it takes work, it takes paying attention, it takes self examination, it takes letting go and surrender, and it takes going forward--always forward--step after step--come what may. But, I assure you, it is real and it's damn well worth the sacrifice, setbacks, self doubt, sleepless nights and suffering that comes with being Human.

Peace.:yes:

Face:)
 
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DeeAnna

Patron Meritorious
Congratulations, father-of-the-brides!

I know the feeling whereof you speak in feeling happy and contented that a child has chosen a life partner whom you genuinely like and respect. It makes things oh, so much easier in life. I've been blessed with my own two children in this area. I attributed much to them NOT getting married young. (One of mine was 28, the other 31)

Sounds like your daughters have completed their education and established themselves in their careers. Likely they have done many things single people want to do, traveled as they wanted, etc.

The only down side I found was that it was a long wait for grandchildren. Because nobody wanted to "rush into" parenthood. In fact, one of the couples announced they did not thing they wanted to have any children. Until they changed their minds nine years later.

Enjoy, enjoy.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Congratulations, father-of-the-brides!

I know the feeling whereof you speak in feeling happy and contented that a child has chosen a life partner whom you genuinely like and respect. It makes things oh, so much easier in life. I've been blessed with my own two children in this area. I attributed much to them NOT getting married young. (One of mine was 28, the other 31)

Sounds like your daughters have completed their education and established themselves in their careers. Likely they have done many things single people want to do, traveled as they wanted, etc.

The only down side I found was that it was a long wait for grandchildren. Because nobody wanted to "rush into" parenthood. In fact, one of the couples announced they did not thing they wanted to have any children. Until they changed their minds nine years later.

Enjoy, enjoy.

Thanks DeeAnna...Very Cool Post...Appreciate mucho you sharing this. :thumbsup:

They're 37 and 35 and are established, independent and very self sufficient (they both own homes...without Daddy's help...and did almost all of the repairs, renovation and maintenance themselves). They've traveled abroad extensively and both did study abroad in College...the Artist at the Florence Institute for the Arts and the Special Ed Teacher at the University of Edinburgh.

I told them and reaffirmed often throughout their lives that all that mattered to me was that they live their life on their terms, pursued their interests and followed their Heart and that, as far as I was concerned, their role in life was not to produce grandchildren...their mother was none too happy about that last part at all and also thought I should counsel them to be "more practical" about their chosen studies, to wit, chose a major that would be "marketable" as opposed to one that you are passionate about. :melodramatic:

They both love and are wonderful with children and their Bo's are the same...I don't pry into their personal lives but I've gotten a strong, subtle message that they both have, and vice versa, found the one they want to have children with. Their mother is ECSTATIC!:happydance:

I was in the SO and very young when I first became a parent and my hope was that they would get a good education, be on their own, finish growing up, establish themselves and "find their groove" before making the commitment of marriage or having children.

If I never have grandchildren I'm okay with that. I'd rather my kids have a happy, fulfilling and financially sustainable life childless than to go through the stress of being a parent if they're emotionally, financially or philosophically not in a position to do a decent job of it, be fully "invested" and "present" during the miracles and magic of first breath, first step, first word and on through the terrible twos, first day at school and the pubescent pining pathos, all the way to cutting the strings and folding up one's apron.

Face:)
 
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MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Oh yay! Such wonderful news for the proud papa! :happydance:
You have so much to be proud of yourself for..wonderful daughters and friends on this board that love and respect you..you are beautiful..I wish I could take you out for champagne and a nice long chat.. Maybe one day..until then, all my love and friendship!
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
Missy
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Reading you Face , about children, is like a fresh wind!

We can really feel how proud and happy you are about your daughters!
I am convinced they were contaminated, with your kindness and care for people!
Also, I am certain your educated them to be gratefull as you are.

Bless you are, as one day , long time ago, you decided for the good of your children!

:coolwink:
 
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