Tai Chi and body thetans

[nexus100]

The OT-3 I did had nothing to do with any concept such as "getting rid" of BTs. It was all about auditing them in order to "clear" them. It was about digging them out of the charge they had gotten into. In every way identical to the auditing of a human being. NOTs even has steps in it to get their grades in when needed.

As usual you select the worst so as to present the worst and any possibility of any good or perception of value or benefit is to be shouted down.

It all says more about you than about Hubbard. As the saying goes - His overts created an effect, yours never will.

But you can admit that the things that are called BT's in SCN may not in fact be that at all, and/or can have alternate solutions, can't you?

Is creation of an effect really king in your universe, even if the ripples are destructive?

 

[Leon]

Yes.

Basic to that is the question What is a thetan. there really is no such thing - "it" is merely a viewpoint, and one can't really audit a viewpoint because it is just a viewpoint.

Many of them respond as though they were "real" beings and so that is an approach which works well on those occasions
.

 

[Mojo]

Is creation of an effect really king in your universe, even if the ripples are destructive?

Leon: "Yes."

Mojo: That's chilling Leon. Understandable, but chilling nonetheless.

For me it's akin to Hitler laughing as human beings were gassed to death as he thought to himself "they're merely ripples in my universe".

Chilling I say.

Good luck with that.

Mojo

 

[Leon]

Yeah, that's one interpretation one can put on it. If you're that way inclined.

But what is a thetan? Scio definitions all talk about what it isn't, but what is it? It is, it exists, but it is not a thing.

What I wrote certainly does not make it OK to gas people or enslave them or anything else.

 

[Leon]

Oh, wait.

The "Yes" was in answer to Nexus's first sentence, not the second.

 

[Veda]

Scientologists usually have a hard time talking - intelligently and honestly -about Scientology.

Scientology is, ultimately, a confusing and corrupting influence; it manipulates, it enlightens, it deceives.

All I can suggest is to be as tolerant as possible with the long-duration Scientologists - many are "lifers" within the Scientology reality-bubble. Occasionally, though, they do need a bit of "tough love."

If they didn't insist on giving so much foolish advice to the vulnerable, I wouldn't even mention it.

Starting around 1964/65/66, Hubbard began to implement his final phase of what appears to have been his master plan: The full incorporation of the (non-medical) basics of his (secretly written) 1955 (his title) 'Brainwashing Manual' into the subject. It was a turning point. That implementation would not be complete until 1974.

"Upper" processing levels became "dangerous" and "confidential," and vital to every one's survival "for the next endless trillions"; Scientologists - on these levels - were mainly being told, not asked, the contents of their own minds; the Fair Game Law (1965) was established and applied.

At the very least, a re-examination of Scientology counseling tech - post 1964 - is warranted.

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=101407&postcount=56

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=77478&postcount=14

 

[Dulloldfart]

But what is a thetan? Scio definitions all talk about what it isn't, but what is it? It is, it exists, but it is not a thing.

I've written about that here a few times. The last one was two days ago, here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=108067

Paul

 

[Leon]

Hi Paul

We can ignore Veda fopr the nonce - he's just doing his thing.

I read your post re thetan when you posted it. The picture shows an energy field of sorts, which is of course not the thetan itself. The thetan is presumably some sort of non-thing. Hubbard generallly defines it in terms of what it isn't. Very rarely does he venture into what it is, and then only briefly.

I used to be of the view that theta was theta and mest mest but I have recently come off that idea. I now see it as pretty much all theta. And theta is just a presence of awareness capable of presenting itself as it wishes, which presentations one can be aware of. All mest was originally someone's "body".

 

[Mark A. Baker]

But in line with the Theta-MEST Theory, with me conveniently ignoring Hubbard's statement that it could be wrong, I thought of there being the two more-or-less absolute realms,

In short the spiritual/material dichotomy.

Now I embrace the idea of the "thetan" in a sense vaguely similar to the one Hubbard used in History of Man, the thumb where the sliver in the thumb is the body, commonly called the "aura" today, and described by different authors with differing perceptions of it throughout history. Currently I like the works of Barbara Brennan a lot, and sometimes refer to the illustrations as well as the text in her books. Here is an illustration showing the different layers of the aura, according to her direct perception of them (as opposed to her copying another's description of them, like I am doing).

She says that all seven layers are the person. There are some other parts, even more fine or rarefied, not shown here, but I haven't worked out for myself what exactly one could identify as the individual, and what isn't. But the layers of the aura, that interpenetrate each other and the body, could be considered to be energy bodies. And this runs smack up against Hubbard's idea that theta does not have an energy component.

Anyway, it's a tricky subject. And adopting Hubbard's view of it can lead to difficulties. Yeah, yeah, so what's new?

Paul

The thing is there is actually nothing to directly connect a "thetan" with the various energy fields about a human body. There are four "fundamental" physical forces known in the PU; strong, weak, electromagnetic, & gravitational.

ALL known forms of matter/energy interact with gravitation, and also with the other forces although to varying degrees with the latter. Each force is "unlimited" in range although the actual strength of the force declines rapidly with distance from the source.

In theory, information about a source body is encoded in the energy fields of each appropriate force type. Some of this data can be retrieved & "decrypted" with appropriate technologies. This is the principle behind the common telescope, microscope, gravitational detectors, radio beacons, doppler radar, etc..

At present most human technology relies on detection in the electro-magnetic spectrum. This is due to the relative ease of detecting & analyzing data in this spectra compared to the others rather than a fundamental "superiority" of electromagnetic radiation. Gravitational, strong & weak forces are much harder to detect much less analyze for inherent information about the sources.

The so-called "aura" or "energy field" of the human body of which you speak therefore needs to be understood in terms of its constituent components. How much of the "aura" is contributed by natural physical processes of the body? How much of the "aura" represents some sort of transcendental or non-physical energy system?

In all likelihood the various techniques used to measure or detect the "human aura" are in fact detecting the natural energy emissions associated with the physical processes inherent to an organic life form. If so then theta/spirit is being overlooked completely.

Perhaps there is no such thing as a theta, spirit or spiritual reality? That conclusion is in conflict with the "spiritual" traditions of all humankind based on the common occurence of subjective spiritual phenomena.

Is that the position you are arguing for?

If so, that conflicts with my own understanding based on that which I have personally experienced in life. But it is an intellectual possibility, although one which at present I personally find implausible .


Mark A. Baker

 

[Pixie]

None of this is "Black PR positioning." It's a simple statement of fact.

Hubbard used cocaine, mostly the injected variety. Grow up and face it. As a few have noted, "He could get brilliant on the stuff." He reverted, majorly, during the 1967/68 period. That's the way it is. There are plenty of witnesses.

"Crowley inspired?" Indeed. When I first listened to the 1952 PDC lectures, I had spent about a year prior reading the works of Aleister Crowley. I was surprised to notice the similarities: Hubbard was using not only ideas, but entire sentences from Crowley's books.

Years later, talking to Ron Jr., and reading his 1970s piece 'Philadelphia', he mentioned how his father had prepared for each PDC lecture - the night before - by reading Crowley.

It confirmed what I had already observed.

As I mentioned, there is nothing in the "OT levels" about positive spiritual beings. It's a simple statement. Try to understand it.

I'm not about to get into any technical argument here, however, it really never ceases to amaze me how some people appear to be complete and utter denial of where, how and why lron got his information. I think we all agree that he wanted men his slaves, he admitted that himself, however to take a whole host of information from Crowley, took a miriad cocaine and other drugs at the very least, was a known criminal and a madman, yet some still feel it relevant to 'discuss' the shit that he came out with, I find this incredible and anyone using his 'tech' is in my opinion in a complete and utter state of denial. He was dangerous, his tech is dangerous and one of the most introverting things I have ever experienced. Well his 'tech' did it's job on some for sure as they still refuse to see what is in front of their own eyes.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I read your post re thetan when you posted it. The picture shows an energy field of sorts, which is of course not the thetan itself. The thetan is presumably some sort of non-thing. Hubbard generallly defines it in terms of what it isn't. Very rarely does he venture into what it is, and then only briefly.

A few of quotes from Hubbard coming up, showing his views at the time (maybe). From History of Man:

The theta being is both outside and inside the MEST body. It is not just inside. The only reason it is inside at all is that any field would penetrate the MEST body. The MEST body should not be thought of as a harbour or vessel for the theta being. A better example would be a sliver inserted unwantedly in the thumb where the thumb would be the Theta being, the MEST body the sliver.

From the old Phoenix Lectures book:

A thetan is very, very close to being a pure Static. He has practically no wavelength. Actually a thetan is in a very, very small amount of mass. From some experiments conducted about fifteen or twenty years ago -- a thetan weighed about 1.5 ounces! Who made these experiments? Well, a doctor made these experiments. He weighed people before and after death, retaining any mass. He weighed the person, bed and all, and he found that the weight dropped at the moment of death about 1.5 ounces and some of them 2 ounces. (Those were heavy thetans.)

There is a write-up online of those experiments, by the way, written by the doctor who did them.

From a tape, 16 Jan 56, entitled "Repair and Remedy of Havingness":

Now, if you could conceive a body as a rather interesting thing which sits in the middle of an electronic structure - not as something that has blood and brains and limbs, but that it sits in the middle of this electronic block of something. And the anchor points themselves are quite visible. A preclear can see these. Very often a preclear is quite surprised, saying, "I wonder what all these golden balls are around here," you know, or "What are these black balls?" They're anchor points.

Well, that's the body's electronic structure. It's a very interesting pattern. The illusion of the body's presence, which is the blood and bones and all the rest of it, is actually held in place by this electronic structure which is on a higher wavelength. All right.

There's something else there. There is a mass of energy which might be compared in an electrical way, to gelatin on a solid MEST sort of thing. It's a clear, invisible, electronic standing wave. That's what it is. And it's a block. You might say he's sitting there not only with his anchor points, but in a block of electrical gelatin. That's what it looks like. That isn't what it is, of course. Well, we don't care what it is; it's basically a consideration. But that's the body's consideration, and we as auditors are stuck with it. All right.

Now, this block of gel, these anchor points themselves, have a tendency to become disarranged. Now, what is the function of this electronic gel?

I know it sounds to you like I'm being terribly complicated, but if you can just get the idea of the preclear sitting in the middle of a bunch of gelatin, clear gelatin - you know, a big bowl of clear gelatin, and he's sitting in the middle of it. And that's the body, you see, is sitting in the middle of it, but this other stuff exists. And then scattered through the gelatin are a bunch of marbles, those are his anchor points. You've got a pretty good picture of what the full picture of this preclear is.

I didn't mention "anchor points", by the way, as another of Hubbard's fictions. I assume he perceived parts of the aura structure.

Paul

 

[Terl]

As far as anchor points: I once was told about a story Ron was telling during a lecture where he went for a walk to give himself a locational, and was looking around and pulling his body faster than it could walk. When I walk around town, I often envision "anchor points" pulling me in a direct line to where I want to get to. Usually I'll pick a spot, get to the spot, pick another spot further long, get there, etc. It seems to give your body some extra speed. Could be in my head though. But sometimes it scares me how fast I'm walking + zooming by everyone else.

 

[Terril park]

A few of quotes from Hubbard coming up, showing his views at the time (maybe). From History of Man:


From the old Phoenix Lectures book:
There is a write-up online of those experiments, by the way, written by the doctor who did them.

From a tape, 16 Jan 56, entitled "Repair and Remedy of Havingness":


I didn't mention "anchor points", by the way, as another of Hubbard's fictions. I assume he perceived parts of the aura structure.

Paul

Thanks. Anyone ever heard of anyone who saw such anchor points?

" But that's the body's consideration,"

He mean the GE? Or what?

 

[Dulloldfart]

" But that's the body's consideration,"

He mean the GE? Or what?

Fortunately, I'm no longer in an environment where I have to try and make sense out of this stuff. To answer your question, hell if I know.

Paul

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I agree. I've never been convinced that the GE exists as an actual reality apart from the rest of me. I suppose if it works to think of it that way, then do so.

 

[Terril park]

I agree. I've never been convinced that the GE exists as an actual reality apart from the rest of me. I suppose if it works to think of it that way, then do so.

Did Hubbard once comment that the GE was the mind of an animal? I find that idea simplistic. Most pet owners would consider them thetans. Of " thetans" if you will.

Mark mentions how the Bohr atom, although incorrect
was a useful concept. I'm inclined to place the GE in that category. For all I know science has discovered what one is.

The body handles many functions that we do not conciously control. In fact I believe some disciplines of a spiritual nature
aim towards gaining concious control of such things.

 

[Dulloldfart]

The body handles many functions that we do not conciously control.

Like eating chocolate?

Paul

 

[Pierrot]

Did Hubbard once comment that the GE was the mind of an animal? I find that idea simplistic. Most pet owners would consider them thetans. Of " thetans" if you will.

when reading about the GE the first time I understood it as that (7th) which added to the sixth dynamic produced the fifth dynamic. Not considering it as something exclusively belonging to my body, but "my" GE being the whole fifth dynamic. It would be the mind of all living species, animal and vegetables, with categories (preferential access to human data ;-) - not the mind of an animal. Later study, like about Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields, added more data. It's all connected.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Interesting idea, Pierrot, but it's not what Hubbard described. .

I quite like Sheldrake's stuff, by the way.

Paul

 

[Pierrot]

Interesting idea, Pierrot, but it's not what Hubbard described. .

I quite like Sheldrake's stuff, by the way.

Paul

yeah, I like it too. Currently I'm exploring the southern hemisphere music - the transe rhythms, with shamanic/healers origins. From samba, to salsa, rumba, etc. The rhythmic pulse just hits the GE nodes in a way that makes motion, dancing, "unavoidable". When playing traditional music with African bros', or dancing with girls, I notice the motions of the bodies are tribal, group thing, not individual like in European for instance. Anyway...

I don't mind disagreeing with Hubbard, especially on the GE subject, which I find he left incomplete. However - in this instance putting an in bold letters I was only pointing at a possible litteral interpretation. Like if a mind was an exclusive possession of one organism. So, I don't find Hubbard contradicting my statement about the fifth dynamic described by lambda in the axioms or in HOM.