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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Leon said:
Never seen it actually. What's it like?
Click to expand...

The book was okay.....chewed my nails off reading it. :lol:

The movie.....I didn't even recognize it as the book that I had read.....I couldn't even connect the movie with the book. I think it was the worst movie I ever saw. I saw the whole thing with a friend. After it was over we went outside and there were a number of other Scientologists standing around making comments about how bad it was. I think most of us were quite stunned at how awful it was.

I don't see how Travolta could have let it be released.....it made him look really bad. If I was him, I would have been embarassed to have anybody see it. And the fact that the story was supposedly written originally by LRH, did not make him look good at all, and the whole thing was a bad reflection on Scientology.....at least that's the way I viewed it. It was like a bad B movie....a sort of disaster. I would say it was a footbullet for all involved in making it.

I was really disappointed.....I wasted my money to go see it.

IT WAS AWFUL!!!!!
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The only fiction book of his that I can say I did "enjoy" was Ole Doc Methuselah. That was fun. I read a few others too - Return to Tommorow, and that movie script one the Ron's Org guys promote. I tried Fear but got bored halfway through, and I started the first of that Dekalogy group but after 10 pages or so I decided that I preferred my comics to have pictures in them. That was aboput the level of the story telling.

For the rest I have pretty much regarded his writings as exactly what he claimed for them - they were "pulp fiction". That said it all.

As for his forays into music and art - Nothing there was worth a second look. After his Apollo I wrote and told him so that I did not like his music and he should stick to tech. He never replied.
 
cool video

[video=youtube;f2HoZ4cU1r4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2HoZ4cU1r4&feature=player_embedded[/video]

and this

[video=youtube;kwgCD9hVSbI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwgCD9hVSbI&feature=player_embedded[/video]

and this

[video=youtube;qyxrg9bsgoc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyxrg9bsgoc&feature=related[/video]
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I had some idle, passing thoughts today--which I am prone to do during most days. They really aren't significant enough, IMO, to warrant starting a Thread and are nothing earth shattering or all that important but I’d like to post them somewhere and this is the logical place…the open topic Apollo Thread.

We all know the story about David Mayo CL XII, Senior C/S Flag, being summoned to El Ron’s bedside resulting in the “Discovery” of KNOTS.

Part of that story was the fact that Jeff Walker, CL XII, Senior Tech Cramming Officer Flag, was sent out before Mayo but El Ron didn’t want Walker touching Hisself’s Case.

By his actions, El Ron said the following:

1. That the guy (Walker) that was chiefly responsible for the pruning, grooming and polishing all of CL XII’s and SO and Public Flag Internes was not “good enough” to touch Hisself's case.

2. That the CL XII’s that Walker kept sharp were good enough to Audit Public for big bucks but not good enough to Audit Hisself.

3. That Flag Auditing and CL XII’s were neither flubless nor perfect as Hisself had publicly stated.

4. That in all the years of “Breakthroughs” and miracle “Discoveries” re: Study, Training and “OT” making, there was only one person in all of Scn that El Ron trusted to touch Hisself’s Case.

As we now know, all of the “Tech” El Ron had “Discovered” and “Humbly Tendered” to all of Us over the previous 30 years was not sufficient to handle Hisself’s Case and “Presto” KNOTS is “Discovered”.

And, then it struck me; obviously, to El Ron, the completeness, capability and quality of the “Tech” some of Us were paying so handsomely for, and others of Us lived in depravation to deliver--was at best of secondary importance to Hisself. Now, I know that’s sort of “well duh” to Us all here and at this time but this story says it all in a very straightforward yet subtle way.

So, here’s the gist of my idle thoughts:

That’s why Marty has sought so hard to demonize Mayo. Marty demonizes ESMB, Exes and critics re: El Ron all the time so as to prevent them from reading or believing what they read re: El Ron. This one story of Mayo Auditing El Ron exposes Hisself for what Hisself was, and wasn’t.

Face:)
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I thought of a couple more musician stories, but these are not all that funny.

I knew a trumpet player that would always put his wallet on the stand to remind himself of why he was there. He used to say he would always check his brain in at the gate, and never forget to pick it up again as he left.

I remember an old grouchy musician, much like myself now, who had a real zinger for another player who suggested how to play a passage. He pulled out his wallet, took out a wad of cash and asked "How much do I owe you for the lesson?"
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

afaceinthecrowd said:
I had some idle, passing thoughts today--which I am prone to do during most days. They really aren't significant enough, IMO, to warrant starting a Thread and are nothing earth shattering or all that important but I’d like to post them somewhere and this is the logical place…the open topic Apollo Thread.

We all know the story about David Mayo CL XII, Senior C/S Flag, being summoned to El Ron’s bedside resulting in the “Discovery” of KNOTS.

Part of that story was the fact that Jeff Walker, CL XII, Senior Tech Cramming Officer Flag, was sent out before Mayo but El Ron didn’t want Walker touching Hisself’s Case.

By his actions, El Ron said the following:

1. That the guy (Walker) that was chiefly responsible for the pruning, grooming and polishing all of CL XII’s and SO and Public Flag Internes was not “good enough” to touch Hisself's case.

2. That the CL XII’s that Walker kept sharp were good enough to Audit Public for big bucks but not good enough to Audit Hisself.

3. That Flag Auditing and CL XII’s were neither flubless nor perfect as Hisself had publicly stated.

4. That in all the years of “Breakthroughs” and miracle “Discoveries” re: Study, Training and “OT” making, there was only one person in all of Scn that El Ron trusted to touch Hisself’s Case.

As we now know, all of the “Tech” El Ron had “Discovered” and “Humbly Tendered” to all of Us over the previous 30 years was not sufficient to handle Hisself’s Case and “Presto” KNOTS is “Discovered”.

And, then it struck me; obviously, to El Ron, the completeness, capability and quality of the “Tech” some of Us were paying so handsomely for, and others of Us lived in depravation to deliver--was at best of secondary importance to Hisself. Now, I know that’s sort of “well duh” to Us all here and at this time but this story says it all in a very straightforward yet subtle way.

So, here’s the gist of my idle thoughts:

That’s why Marty has sought so hard to demonize Mayo. Marty demonizes ESMB, Exes and critics re: El Ron all the time so as to prevent them from reading or believing what they read re: El Ron. This one story of Mayo Auditing El Ron exposes Hisself for what Hisself was, and wasn’t.

Face:)
Click to expand...

This is somewhat known on the net.

You have better docs?

The story I've read is that Jeff was a real tough son of a bitch
and would go to town on pulling LRH'/s O/Ws.

Thus LRH chose the milder Mayo. Who was probably of greater knowledge than Jeff. I guess.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

afaceinthecrowd said:
... By his actions, El Ron said the following: ...
Click to expand...

I don't think so, Face. I suspect you have pushed your logic a bit too far. The fact is Mayo is the one that hubbard selected as the top tech terminal beneath him in the church. He clearly had a lot of respect & trust in the man, at least at that time and when he wasn't actively dramatizing paranoia. Nor is that in the least surprising. Many people have found excellent reason to put their trust in David. .

PCs typically prefer some auditors over others, call it for 'personal reasons'. Those preferences don't necessarily reflect on the auditor's tech. Hubbard had his pick of anyone in scientology. He chose David. That makes perfect sense to me.


Mark A. Baker
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Terril park said:
This is somewhat known on the net.

You have better docs?

The story I've read is that Jeff was a real tough son of a bitch
and would go to town on pulling LRH'/s O/Ws.

Thus LRH chose the milder Mayo. Who was probably of greater knowledge than Jeff. I guess.
Click to expand...

All I know is what I've read on the Net...particularly Mayo's account.

Jeff was a real tough SOB. I would have chosen Mayo, too between the two.

Face :)
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mark A. Baker said:
I don't think so, Face. I suspect you have pushed your logic a bit too far. The fact is Mayo is the one that hubbard selected as the top tech terminal beneath him in the church. He clearly had a lot of respect & trust in the man, at least at that time and when he wasn't actively dramatizing paranoia. Nor is that in the least surprising. Many people have found excellent reason to put their trust in David. .

PCs typically prefer some auditors over others, call it for 'personal reasons'. Those preferences don't necessarily reflect on the auditor's tech. Hubbard had his pick of anyone in scientology. He chose David. That makes perfect sense to me.


Mark A. Baker
Click to expand...

You give my idle thoughts too much credit by referring to them as "Logic".:coolwink:

As I said to Terril, I would have opted for Mayo, too.

The fact that El Ron chopped up Otto (the Mayo of that era) and--with the exception in the early mid 70's briefly had Paulette Cohen Ausley (CL XII) as Hisself's personal Auditor--self C/Sed and Audited for over 10 years before Mayo and KNOTS kinda says it all, IMO.

Face :)
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mark A. Baker said:
I don't think so, Face. I suspect you have pushed your logic a bit too far. The fact is Mayo is the one that hubbard selected as the top tech terminal beneath him in the church. He clearly had a lot of respect & trust in the man, at least at that time and when he wasn't actively dramatizing paranoia. Nor is that in the least surprising. Many people have found excellent reason to put their trust in David. .

PCs typically prefer some auditors over others, call it for 'personal reasons'. Those preferences don't necessarily reflect on the auditor's tech. Hubbard had his pick of anyone in scientology. He chose David. That makes perfect sense to me.


Mark A. Baker
Click to expand...

Yes, it would.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

afaceinthecrowd said:
As we now know, all of the “Tech” El Ron had “Discovered” and “Humbly Tendered” to all of Us over the previous 30 years was not sufficient to handle Hisself’s Case and “Presto” KNOTS is “Discovered”.

And, then it struck me; obviously, to El Ron, the completeness, capability and quality of the “Tech” some of Us were paying so handsomely for, and others of Us lived in depravation to deliver--was at best of secondary importance to Hisself. Now, I know that’s sort of “well duh” to Us all here and at this time but this story says it all in a very straightforward yet subtle way.
Click to expand...

Face,

One idle thought deserves another idle thought. I had one too.

If one is to accept the concept of 100% perfect standard tech as espoused in KSW #1 and the Class 8 lectures, then from 1968 to 1978 the "solution" for OTs with somatics was simply a Dianetics program and more garden variety Dianetics on the case.

I know this to be a fact as in early 1978 I was auditing a then full OT7, who still suffered from unwanted misemotions, on a Dianetics program out in the field. Back in those days, this was allowed and sanctioned by the advanced orgs. Soon the "no Dianetics on OT" issue came out and we were stopped dead in our tracks on the auditing.

Truth be told per Mayo's written and taped commentaries, this is exactly what got LRH in trouble, bogged case-wise, and almost dead. After auditing OTs on Dianetics for ten years, the accepted and demanded "standard tech" solution, we find out with the advent of NOTS that this was a harmful activity and probably damaged many cases.

Hence, no more Dianetics on OTs and repair of previous Dianetic actions, as we all know.

My point being is that "100% standard tech" has always been a very ephemeral and changing matter and who's to say what we were left with is not equally flawed. What is standard action in one era, one can be hung for doing in the next era.

I'm a little embarrassed about it, but it's taken me a lot of reading and years of observation to see through the built in, hard-wired confusions, contradictions, and discrepancies in "The Tech." For many years, I thought it was me, my lack of understanding. Now I know it's not.

This discussion board and it's fine, intelligent people have really helped me put things in correct perspective. And that's one helluva "release" in itself.

Well, just an idle thought in response to an idle thought. :coolwink: I get them too, Face.

ILove2Lurk
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

afaceinthecrowd said:
All I know is what I've read on the Net...particularly Mayo's account.

Jeff was a real tough SOB. I would have chosen Mayo, too between the two.

Face :)
Click to expand...


I guess I must be about the only guy around here who has actually had auditing from both of them. And I declare that the one is every bit as good as the other. Both are one hundred percent fine.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

afaceinthecrowd said:
I had some idle, passing thoughts today--which I am prone to do during most days. They really aren't significant enough, IMO, to warrant starting a Thread and are nothing earth shattering or all that important but I’d like to post them somewhere and this is the logical place…the open topic Apollo Thread.

We all know the story about David Mayo CL XII, Senior C/S Flag, being summoned to El Ron’s bedside resulting in the “Discovery” of KNOTS.

Part of that story was the fact that Jeff Walker, CL XII, Senior Tech Cramming Officer Flag, was sent out before Mayo but El Ron didn’t want Walker touching Hisself’s Case.

By his actions, El Ron said the following:

1. That the guy (Walker) that was chiefly responsible for the pruning, grooming and polishing all of CL XII’s and SO and Public Flag Internes was not “good enough” to touch Hisself's case.

2. That the CL XII’s that Walker kept sharp were good enough to Audit Public for big bucks but not good enough to Audit Hisself.

3. That Flag Auditing and CL XII’s were neither flubless nor perfect as Hisself had publicly stated.

4. That in all the years of “Breakthroughs” and miracle “Discoveries” re: Study, Training and “OT” making, there was only one person in all of Scn that El Ron trusted to touch Hisself’s Case.

As we now know, all of the “Tech” El Ron had “Discovered” and “Humbly Tendered” to all of Us over the previous 30 years was not sufficient to handle Hisself’s Case and “Presto” KNOTS is “Discovered”.

And, then it struck me; obviously, to El Ron, the completeness, capability and quality of the “Tech” some of Us were paying so handsomely for, and others of Us lived in depravation to deliver--was at best of secondary importance to Hisself. Now, I know that’s sort of “well duh” to Us all here and at this time but this story says it all in a very straightforward yet subtle way.

So, here’s the gist of my idle thoughts:

That’s why Marty has sought so hard to demonize Mayo. Marty demonizes ESMB, Exes and critics re: El Ron all the time so as to prevent them from reading or believing what they read re: El Ron. This one story of Mayo Auditing El Ron exposes Hisself for what Hisself was, and wasn’t.

Face:)
Click to expand...

Your points 1 through 4 and the gist of your idle thoughts seem totally plausible to me. They are not iron clad logic but they are reasonable assumptions to make.

APPLYING LOOK, DON'T LISTEN
The proof of the pudding was in LRH's actions. He insisted on Mayo over Walker but as people are pointing out, that could have just been a personal preference for Mayo, it doesn't in any way mean that Walker could not have done the job.

The point which I often make is that the leadership of Scientology, first Hubbard and later DM never has avaiedl itself of the tech which they are selling as "perfect" (when delivered at Flag) and "priceless". Both individuals often rewrote the rules and failed to use their "holy scriptures" when key situations came up.

Also, the Training and Processing grades achieved by DM's Lieutenants are never featured in print. The only time we see things such as OT VIII, Class XII or OEC/FEBC appended to someone's name is on a handbill when an Exec is going to come out to a local Org and deliver a seminar.

I don't know DM's Case Level but his training level is known to be "provisional Class IV" There is no record of him being certified as OEC/FEBC OTIII or anything of that sort. If training and processing are being sold as "perfect" (when delivered at Flag) and "priceless" to the extent that without them one's eternity is going nowhere, then you would think that INT EXECS would all focus primarily on getting through these levels before doing anything else.

This is reinforced further now by the focus of the major money demands being made on the public being made for the IAS and for new buildings. Rally after rally held to obtain millions for the new buidings takes away all the assets of the parishioners and leaves no money available for pursuing training and processing.

Ever since this phenomena began, in the early 80's with the formation of the IAS, and its enormous demands for parishioners money, management has never worried about there being no money left over for people to purchase training and processing. THIS IS A HUGE RED FLAG. The IAS, Super Power Building and Ieal Orgs have replaced training and processing as the main items to "reg" for.

Only the extremely rich can pay for those things and still have money left over to pay for training and processing and yet management is not nor has ever been concerned about this. ANOTHER HUGE FLAG!

This type of thing would tie into those conclusions which Face came up with. That is why I believe that the idle thoughts which he stated are quite plausible.
Lakey
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

ILove2Lurk said:
Face,

One idle thought deserves another idle thought. I had one too.

If one is to accept the concept of 100% perfect standard tech as espoused in KSW #1 and the Class 8 lectures, then from 1968 to 1978 the "solution" for OTs with somatics was simply a Dianetics program and more garden variety Dianetics on the case.

I know this to be a fact as in early 1978 I was auditing a then full OT7, who still suffered from unwanted misemotions, on a Dianetics program out in the field. Back in those days, this was allowed and sanctioned by the advanced orgs. Soon the "no Dianetics on OT" issue came out and we were stopped dead in our tracks on the auditing.

Truth be told per Mayo's written and taped commentaries, this is exactly what got LRH in trouble, bogged case-wise, and almost dead. After auditing OTs on Dianetics for ten years, the accepted and demanded "standard tech" solution, we find out with the advent of NOTS that this was a harmful activity and probably damaged many cases.

Hence, no more Dianetics on OTs and repair of previous Dianetic actions, as we all know.

My point being is that "100% standard tech" has always been a very ephemeral and changing matter and who's to say what we were left with is not equally flawed. What is standard action in one era, one can be hung for doing in the next era.

I'm a little embarrassed about it, but it's taken me a lot of reading and years of observation to see through the built in, hard-wired confusions, contradictions, and discrepancies in "The Tech." For many years, I thought it was me, my lack of understanding. Now I know it's not.

This discussion board and it's fine, intelligent people have really helped me put things in correct perspective. And that's one helluva "release" in itself.

Well, just an idle thought in response to an idle thought. :coolwink: I get them too, Face.

ILove2Lurk
Click to expand...


Correctomundo. :thumbsup:

Hindsight gives us a few workable truths that have survived the test of time. Among those are: Audit the pc in front of you. What has produced tone-arm action (and thus case gain) will continue to produce TA and case gain--up to a point. But that point is easily picked up by both pc and auditor if the pc is in communication and if the auditor is addressing the pc in front of him, not some imaginary pc. C/Sing in an Ivory Tower can easily become a situation of auditing some imaginary pc as represented in the folder. Hooray(!) for the old days when "C/Sing" in the chair was expected and "standard."

As for tech changes, blah, blah, blah, follow the money. Too many pre-OTs auditing Dianetics in the field--and gaining from it I might add--simply cut into the GI of Advanced Orgs and Flag.

:biggrin:
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ted said:
Correctomundo. :thumbsup:

Hindsight gives us a few workable truths that have survived the test of time. Among those are: Audit the pc in front of you. What has produced tone-arm action (and thus case gain) will continue to produce TA and case gain--up to a point. But that point is easily picked up by both pc and auditor if the pc is in communication and if the auditor is addressing the pc in front of him, not some imaginary pc. C/Sing in an Ivory Tower can easily become a situation of auditing some imaginary pc as represented in the folder. Hooray(!) for the old days when "C/Sing" in the chair was expected and "standard."

As for tech changes, blah, blah, blah, follow the money. Too many pre-OTs auditing Dianetics in the field--and gaining from it I might add--simply cut into the GI of Advanced Orgs and Flag.

:biggrin:
Click to expand...

the above statements pretty much make up the core of what I do.

the real basics are what is important

a happy pc at the end of the session

more able in life

not necessarily ever needing auditing again

and, as kind of a PS (post script), Dianetics Book One can take you well before the physical universe into the breakup of the heavens universe or whatever you want to call the oneness that preceded separation from that oneness. Same old story, get the decisions and consequences of the decisions, problems / solutions, relive revivify, own fully, be able to experience and recognize others' stuff. Earlier Similar can go a long way to helping someone sort out their life.

what is the PC sitting in?

help them handle it

what are their goals and dreams?

help them accomplish them
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

afaceinthecrowd said:
You give my idle thoughts too much credit by referring to them as "Logic".:coolwink:

As I said to Terril, I would have opted for Mayo, too.

The fact that El Ron chopped up Otto (the Mayo of that era) and--with the exception in the early mid 70's briefly had Paulette Cohen Ausley (CL XII) as Hisself's personal Auditor--self C/Sed and Audited for over 10 years before Mayo and KNOTS kinda says it all, IMO.

Face :)
Click to expand...

It kinda dependes on what you want from auditing (or life)

if you want to be validated for who you are being and what you are doing, you get someone to audit you, who is tractable, generous, and grants beingness

if you want to improve your lot in life, you get someone to audit you (who you trust) who can look at the bigger picture and spot outpoints, help you to do the same
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ted said:
Correctomundo. :thumbsup:

Hindsight gives us a few workable truths that have survived the test of time. Among those are: Audit the pc in front of you. What has produced tone-arm action (and thus case gain) will continue to produce TA and case gain--up to a point. But that point is easily picked up by both pc and auditor if the pc is in communication and if the auditor is addressing the pc in front of him, not some imaginary pc. C/Sing in an Ivory Tower can easily become a situation of auditing some imaginary pc as represented in the folder. Hooray(!) for the old days when "C/Sing" in the chair was expected and "standard."

As for tech changes, blah, blah, blah, follow the money. Too many pre-OTs auditing Dianetics in the field--and gaining from it I might add--simply cut into the GI of Advanced Orgs and Flag.

:biggrin:
Click to expand...

It also seems that Life Repair is no longer standard tech.

RTC gradechart: http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html NO LIFEREPAIR.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Being some bits are being throw in here and there...

As far as "perfect" tech goes I remember when I was given an old timer as a PC and was CS'd to run out previous ' bad auditing ' by R3R. The auditor whose ' bad auditing ' I was running out ? L Ron Hubbard.

Then we fast forward to when we can give the PC his items UNLESS the item is so & so !

I never figured out that once someone had attested to OT VII as " cause over life " how it was they could be PTS or have to disconnect from anyone.

While I'm on SPs ( after all, I now R obe ) being their are processes claimed to handle " the SP case " then how come SPs are unleashed on the world when they could be handled?

Wouldn't that eliminate all the awful SPs "trying" to stop the "worlds fastest growing religion' and "mankinds only hope" ?

'jus sayin'
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

uniquemand said:
Hmm... Guess GATT and Life Repair are incompatible. :)
Click to expand...

Probably. And the most help I saw people get out of all their scn auditing was from a really good life repair program!

And it was pretty damn rare evn back then for anyone to get a really good life repair program.
 
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