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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

SPsince83 said:
About 25 yrs ago I had a print of one of the van Gogh Iris series on my wall. One night I had done some LSD and looked at the print for a long time. It became clear to me that what I was seeing under the influence of psychedelics was what he saw for real. Van Gogh was not an impressionist. He was a photo-realist! And I already loved van Gogh. Had Room at Arles in my auditing room back in the day.
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lol! I was just thinking exactly the same thing a moment before you posted that!

When I was around 15, I'd experimented with hallucinogens. One day a friend insisted I go to the Chicago Art Gallery with him to look at a Van Gogh painting. He pointed out the cloth in the painting. See?! See?! It's a trip pattern! Sure enough, Van Gogh had precisely painted one of those psychedelic trip patterns in perfect, precise detail.

So just as you posted that, I was wondering whether Vincent had ergot poisoning or bad mushrooms to induce that state. I guess we'll never know.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

JustSheila said:
lol! I was just thinking exactly the same thing a moment before you posted that!

When I was around 15, I'd experimented with hallucinogens. One day a friend insisted I go to the Chicago Art Gallery with him to look at a Van Gogh painting. He pointed out the cloth in the painting. See?! See?! It's a trip pattern! Sure enough, Van Gogh had precisely painted one of those psychedelic trip patterns in perfect, precise detail.

So just as you posted that, I was wondering whether Vincent had ergot poisoning or bad mushrooms to induce that state. I guess we'll never know.
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I love the Chicago Art Institute. When I was in the Navy (the REAL Navy, not ronnie's canoe club) I could get in free if I wore my uniform. And Orchestra Hall was just a block or two away down Michigan Ave. I got half price tickets from the base, so I could get say a loge box single for just a few bucks. The swells would buy me drinks all night if I was in uniform, so a great Saturday was to take the train into the loop spend all day at the Art Institute, go get some schnitzel and beer at this rathskeller on LaSalle and then go to the symphony. Electrifying. Before scn. But sometimes also on LSD:bong:
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

JustSheila said:
lol! I was just thinking exactly the same thing a moment before you posted that!

When I was around 15, I'd experimented with hallucinogens. One day a friend insisted I go to the Chicago Art Gallery with him to look at a Van Gogh painting. He pointed out the cloth in the painting. See?! See?! It's a trip pattern! Sure enough, Van Gogh had precisely painted one of those psychedelic trip patterns in perfect, precise detail.

So just as you posted that, I was wondering whether Vincent had ergot poisoning or bad mushrooms to induce that state. I guess we'll never know.
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Great stores, you two!! I don't know anything about Vincent except what was in the book I read and the film I saw. There was nothing about taking hallucinogenics but that doesn't mean much. If he ever knowingly took any, books and movies put out in the 1960's wouldn't be likely to print that material. Just a wild assed guess of mine with nothing to back it up but I think that he didn't need to be stoned to view the world as he did. Probably in today's parlance, he would be described as bi-polar or ADHD. My guess is that whatever was going on in his mind, he was naturally stoned, perhaps a hyperactive gland or two or some abnormal brain condition.

BTW, are you familiar with the French woman who is in the Guiness Book of World Records as the oldest authenticated person who ever lived? She was born in 1875 and died in 1997. That is 122 years, fully check out with birth certificates and all that. This woman lived in Arles, France and worked in her Father's store and when she was 14 in 1889, Vincent was coming into the store a lot and she talked to him on several occasions. Her comment on Vincent was that he was grumpy and not too friendly. A couple of years later, he took his own life. I'm too lazy to Google it and provide a link. It would be easy to do for anyone who wanted to read what the woman said about Vincent.
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

SPsince83 said:
I love the Chicago Art Institute. When I was in the Navy (the REAL Navy, not ronnie's canoe club) I could get in free if I wore my uniform. And Orchestra Hall was just a block or two away down Michigan Ave. I got half price tickets from the base, so I could get say a loge box single for just a few bucks. The swells would buy me drinks all night if I was in uniform, so a great Saturday was to take the train into the loop spend all day at the Art Institute, go get some schnitzel and beer at this rathskeller on LaSalle and then go to the symphony. Electrifying. Before scn. But sometimes also on LSD:bong:
Click to expand...

I stopped at the Chicago Art Institute in 1967 on my way back from Europe. They had a large collection of Impressionist paintings by the French masters of the latter half of the 19th century.

Besides Vincent, they had some Henri Toulouse La Trec, another very strange man. Thrown from a horse as a youth, his legs were damaged and never grew much after the accident. This guy had some sort of fascination with the female body, as most men do, but his fascination was more extreme. He was a very weird man. Through all the crap, one could see a heart of gold but his life style and his mannerisms were extremely weird. As looney as he was, almost all of his paintings are quite impressive. I don't believe that he is considered one of the world's great masters but he does make into the classification of being a master:

Check out some photos and paintings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hen...rg%2Fwiki%2FHenri_de_Toulouse-Lautrec;228;400

Old Henri would have fit in well in the Celebrity Center of 1969 tp 1971. He would have probably been sent to see Margaret George in Ethics quite a bit of the time, most likely for having out 2D's and engaging in weird sexual practices. He was a decent guy at heart and I could see him at graduation night getting up there and giving some big win which he got from his sessions. If anyone knows anything about Margaret George, the Master at Arms, you would see that her handling Henri would really be a riot.
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

lkwdblds said:
I stopped at the Chicago Art Institute in 1967 on my way back from Europe. They had a large collection of Impressionist paintings by the French masters of the latter half of the 19th century.

Besides Vincent, they had some Henri Toulouse La Trec, another very strange man. Thrown from a horse as a youth, his legs were damaged and never grew much after the accident. This guy had some sort of fascination with the female body, as most men do, but his fascination was more extreme. He was a very weird man. Through all the crap, one could see a heart of gold but his life style and his mannerisms were extremely weird. As looney as he was, almost all of his paintings are quite impressive. I don't believe that he is considered one of the world's great masters but he does make into the classification of being a master:

Check out some photos and paintings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hen...rg%2Fwiki%2FHenri_de_Toulouse-Lautrec;228;400

Old Henri would have fit in well in the Celebrity Center of 1969 tp 1971. He would have probably been sent to see Margaret George in Ethics quite a bit of the time, most likely for having out 2D's and engaging in weird sexual practices. He was a decent guy at heart and I could see him at graduation night getting up there and giving some big win which he got from his sessions. If anyone knows anything about Margaret George, the Master at Arms, you would see that her handling Henri would really be a riot.
Lakey
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I was big into the impressionists at that time (72-73) and Chicago's permanent collection was outstanding. A travelling Renoir exhibit came thru town and it was awe inspiring.

One day I was hanging out with some Degas and Monet and went into a room I had never been to before. Right there, big as life, was The Old Guitarist by Pablo Picasso. From the blue period. OMFG! It's rare that 6 months go by and I haven't thought of that experience.:bong:
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

SPsince83 said:
Excellent insight to the artistic mind. It can be a burden to see things and have it not be recognized. Great art, music, and literature assuredly come through in times of great stress. It's just the natural blues, baby:bong:
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yes. It is the natural blues!

Artaud himself was tortured by pyschiatrists, suffered madness, and as a poet understood from a poignantly personal perspective what he expressed about Van Gogh. One issue I have with madness or other things any 'tech' would fix is that the thing to be fixed could be a gift.....not a mistake or curse....charge for that matter a form of energy artistic or otherwise that should not be dissolved by processes or 'wins'. Often the cure is a strive to conformity and compliance. The mystery of 'forces' is too often placed in a cartoon called 'entheta' as if all unnameable energies were negative. For instances we here (even sometimes disagreeing with each other) are forces the cos can't do anything with. But we hardly fit their cartoon.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Maria Cuervo said:
yes. It is the natural blues!

Artaud himself was tortured by pyschiatrists, suffered madness, and as a poet understood from a poignantly personal perspective what he expressed about Van Gogh. One issue I have with madness or other things any 'tech' would fix is that the thing to be fixed could be a gift.....not a mistake or curse....charge for that matter a form of energy artistic or otherwise that should not be dissolved by processes or 'wins'. Often the cure is a strive to conformity and compliance. The mystery of 'forces' is too often placed in a cartoon called 'entheta' as if all unnameable energies were negative. For instances we here (even sometimes disagreeing with each other) are forces the cos can't do anything with. But we hardly fit their cartoon.
Click to expand...

Some native Americans viewed the schizophrenic as gifted with sight. Many mental "disorders" have their roots in our hunter-gatherer evolution that have no value in post neolithic society much less post industrial civilization.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

SPsince83 said:
Some native Americans viewed the schizophrenic as gifted with sight. Many mental "disorders" have their roots in our hunter-gatherer evolution that have no value in post neolithic society much less post industrial civilization.
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I would only qualify to say that the value of those things goes unperceived, under the radar....such as to evade norms and story arcs belonging to the 'prevailing' world view. CoS is a minoritarian view with pretensions and desires that through its form of programming/subtle communication/command/hypnosis/suggestion it would eclipse other authorities and reign as the prevailing logic or knowledge system; then it's plot lines would represent yet another norm, one sicker and more amoral and evil than any it could replace. What a pretension! To overrule thousands of years of Western thought with its mental diarrhea....

The artist evades pretensions, norms, plots, agreements. He has no allegiance to a worldview, in his or her purest form, avoids propaganda; if anything critiques it. To the extent he is unaware of his radical difference and separation from the norm the artist tries to fit and to comply and fails and in failing is caught in the net of judgments of the prevailing power. To the extent he can detach from the institutionalized psychosis (CoS and any other system of control) even if the detachment is a form of quiet indifference, to that extend he can thrive under the radar and even appear to fit, hence be misunderstood. Three cheers says the artist, thank heavens I am misunderstood and remain invisible.

Since that indiscernability allows me to basically avoid the torture machines of the ethics idiots.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

If Scn never had the self interest, sense of entitlement, ownership of others, cupidity, it'd be fine. Of course, this also means much of the policy and FOs, etc, and a bunch of tech would not have been written.
 
The banality of evil

I just got finished listening to the audio and reading transcript of the declare order link posted on Ortega's blog. The ethics personage is polite, even as he dispenses his poison. Of course, being but a guard he is merely, like a WW2 prison guard, dispensing an order. Himself, he has zero authority to do more than shit in the morning and eat his beans at the appointed time.

What those powers, the measly little pusillanimous idiots who dispense their version of 'ant' justice, did not realize was that DeWall's husband did not place their hysterical edicts above his own survival. There are of course levels of brainwashing. His mind meld, another way of saying his misunderstanding of the entire universe and cosmos by virtue of his understanding with CoS, was obviously flawed and required another 500 hours of sec checks to be secured.

What level of sec check, really, is enough? Is it not possible that a being simply REJECTS something?

Right now if someone had DM in custody and sec-checked him, I am sure he would protest the injustice. Of course, justice is always relative. And mercy is a rare thing since whoever is charged with justice rarely has a dog in the fight. He is a few steps removed and merely dispenses the 'label'.

CoS could still be huge if it wanted to be. But to be huge it would have to dispense with these disconnections and spurious declares. SPs after all are RARE. Even Mr. Hubbard head up his ass knew that and said so. I don't find the tech valid by any stretch but, really, by the CoS's own sacred writ they are over-declaring.

DM would do well to start to HAVE FUN and RELAX and stop being paranoid. True, at first it would mean there would be things falling into cracks. In the long run he'd DEFUSE everything. When you stop being oppressive people can actually relax around you and even enjoy your antics. Watch a bit more comedy central, CoS. Get drunk, stop being so damn serious about yourself, relax, make friends. Of course the other option is to have empty orgs and defensive publics, that is, keep your horrendous and oppressive acts 'working' and go broke since you destroy all good will!!! LOLOL. Remain 'unreal' to people. Really I am glad that CoS sticks to its crap since by doing so it continues to fail. YAY.

My advice to Scn: keep on doing whatever it is you are doing!!! It's working.
 
Re: The banality of evil

Maria Cuervo said:
I just got finished listening to the audio and reading transcript of the declare order link posted on Ortega's blog. The ethics personage is polite, even as he dispenses his poison. Of course, being but a guard he is merely, like a WW2 prison guard, dispensing an order. Himself, he has zero authority to do more than shit in the morning and eat his beans at the appointed time.

What those powers, the measly little pusillanimous idiots who dispense their version of 'ant' justice, did not realize was that DeWall's husband did not place their hysterical edicts above his own survival. There are of course levels of brainwashing. His mind meld, another way of saying his misunderstanding of the entire universe and cosmos by virtue of his understanding with CoS, was obviously flawed and required another 500 hours of sec checks to be secured.

What level of sec check, really, is enough? Is it not possible that a being simply REJECTS something?

Right now if someone had DM in custody and sec-checked him, I am sure he would protest the injustice. Of course, justice is always relative. And mercy is a rare thing since whoever is charged with justice rarely has a dog in the fight. He is a few steps removed and merely dispenses the 'label'.

CoS could still be huge if it wanted to be. But to be huge it would have to dispense with these disconnections and spurious declares. SPs after all are RARE. Even Mr. Hubbard head up his ass knew that and said so. I don't find the tech valid by any stretch but, really, by the CoS's own sacred writ they are over-declaring.

DM would do well to start to HAVE FUN and RELAX and stop being paranoid. True, at first it would mean there would be things falling into cracks. In the long run he'd DEFUSE everything. When you stop being oppressive people can actually relax around you and even enjoy your antics. Watch a bit more comedy central, CoS. Get drunk, stop being so damn serious about yourself, relax, make friends. Of course the other option is to have empty orgs and defensive publics, that is, keep your horrendous and oppressive acts 'working' and go broke since you destroy all good will!!! LOLOL. Remain 'unreal' to people. Really I am glad that CoS sticks to its crap since by doing so it continues to fail. YAY.

My advice to Scn: keep on doing whatever it is you are doing!!! It's working.
Click to expand...

you are missing something in your analysis,

which is in the beginning of the sec checks, the person still believed in the emeter to tell all, and she did. That belief, if you will, cornered her.

Here are some guestions to ask the sec checker or anybody-----

how did she or the sec checker know Jason Bege was declared SP?

it's all implied.

Did she read an actual golden rod declaring Jason Bege as declared or anybody else?

Or anybody else in her sec checks?

what a joke,

as you say SP's too many. :hysterical:

But, how could so many SP's get to the top, like Marty, Mike Rinder,etc,

when they all had auditing, PTS/SP checks, for 30 years,

what a joke. :roflmao:
 
Re: The banality of evil

Maria Cuervo said:
I just got finished listening to the audio and reading transcript of the declare order link posted on Ortega's blog. The ethics personage is polite, even as he dispenses his poison. Of course, being but a guard he is merely, like a WW2 prison guard, dispensing an order. Himself, he has zero authority to do more than shit in the morning and eat his beans at the appointed time.

What those powers, the measly little pusillanimous idiots who dispense their version of 'ant' justice, did not realize was that DeWall's husband did not place their hysterical edicts above his own survival. There are of course levels of brainwashing. His mind meld, another way of saying his misunderstanding of the entire universe and cosmos by virtue of his understanding with CoS, was obviously flawed and required another 500 hours of sec checks to be secured.

What level of sec check, really, is enough? Is it not possible that a being simply REJECTS something?

Right now if someone had DM in custody and sec-checked him, I am sure he would protest the injustice. Of course, justice is always relative. And mercy is a rare thing since whoever is charged with justice rarely has a dog in the fight. He is a few steps removed and merely dispenses the 'label'.

CoS could still be huge if it wanted to be. But to be huge it would have to dispense with these disconnections and spurious declares. SPs after all are RARE. Even Mr. Hubbard head up his ass knew that and said so. I don't find the tech valid by any stretch but, really, by the CoS's own sacred writ they are over-declaring.



DM would do well to start to HAVE FUN and RELAX and stop being paranoid. True, at first it would mean there would be things falling into cracks. In the long run he'd DEFUSE everything. When you stop being oppressive people can actually relax around you and even enjoy your antics. Watch a bit more comedy central, CoS. Get drunk, stop being so damn serious about yourself, relax, make friends. Of course the other option is to have empty orgs and defensive publics, that is, keep your horrendous and oppressive acts 'working' and go broke since you destroy all good will!!! LOLOL. Remain 'unreal' to people. Really I am glad that CoS sticks to its crap since by doing so it continues to fail. YAY.

My advice to Scn: keep on doing whatever it is you are doing!!! It's working.
Click to expand...

This is a fine post, Maria, you made excellent points and really expressed them well. I'd like comment briefly on two of your points:

First, Hubbard's own scripture states that only 2.5% of the public is SP and that about 22.5% of the public is PTS. to an SP. Using Hubbard's arbitrary constructs, this would leave about 75% of the public as social personalities. On the crew list of the old Saint Hill Org when they made what is now called, "Stl Hill size", there were about 300 staff members. Of these. about 97.5% of them have been declared SP by CoS and only 2.5% remain as social personalities. Anybody with half a brain should see immediately that statistically this exact reversal of the what Hubbard's tech states cannot possibly be correct. The only plausible solution is that SP's took over the Saint Hill Org, declared all the good people to be SP and go rid of them and then crashed the stats and the size of the org. Enormous sums of money taken from the local Scio public with little or no exchange were invested on sprucing up the buildings but delivery, what an Org should be judged on, is out the bottom and I mean literally as even their sewage system has deteriorated and is now not even sanitary.

The second comment is about your comment that CoS could be larger if they wanted. Someone could do a simple Hubbard data analysis on what was causing the decline in worldwide scientology membership. By virtue of Hubbard's own tech on what the Data Evaluator is supposed to do THIS MUST HAPPEN BECAUSE STATS HAVE CRASHED!!! but as you imply, THIS CAN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE CoS CAN NEVER BE WRONG, HUBBARD CAN NEVER BE WRONG AND DM HAS MADE IT POLICY THAT HE CAN NEVER BE WRONG!!! Thus you have LRH policies dictating two opposite results at the same time, something Hubbard called a GPM and the general public refers to as a "Catch 22".

Unfortunately, at any time in CoS, if there is a dispute about PROMO and Delivery to the public or CASH FLOW and Delivery to the public, the PRO and MONEY will always triumph over Fair Exchange and Delivery. That is the way Hubbard wanted it, and it seems that DM is even more prone to having it that way than Hubbard was.
Lakey
 
Re: The banality of evil

Gib said:
you are missing something in your analysis,

which is in the beginning of the sec checks, the person still believed in the emeter to tell all, and she did. That belief, if you will, cornered her.

Here are some guestions to ask the sec checker or anybody-----

how did she or the sec checker know Jason Bege was declared SP?

it's all implied.

Did she read an actual golden rod declaring Jason Bege as declared or anybody else?

Or anybody else in her sec checks?

what a joke,

as you say SP's too many. :hysterical:

But, how could so many SP's get to the top, like Marty, Mike Rinder,etc,

when they all had auditing, PTS/SP checks, for 30 years,

what a joke. :roflmao:
Click to expand...

Hearsay everywhere....and yes, the biggest testament to the failure of 'tech', their sad version of that word, is that so many of those they let float through F/N checks were then later 'declared'.

Hilarious.

Tonight I watched Going Clear. I'll review it in the next day or two once I get a sense of what I want to say in response.

:roflmao:and yes....popcorn time on all the madness.
 
Re: The banality of evil

lkwdblds said:
This is a fine post, Maria, you made excellent points and really expressed them well. I'd like comment briefly on two of your points:

First, Hubbard's own scripture states that only 2.5% of the public is SP and that about 22.5% of the public is PTS. to an SP. This would leave about 75% of the public as social personalities, using Hubbard's hypothetical construct based on nothing but his opinion. On the crew list of the old Saint Hill Org when they made what is now called, "Stl Hill size", there were about 300 staff members. Of these. about 97.5% of them have been declared SP and only 2.5% or deemed social personalities. Anybody with half a brain should see immediately that statistically this exact reversal of the stats cannot possibly be correct. The only viable solution is that SP's took over the Saint Hill Org, declared all the good people to be SP and then crashed the size of the org and its stats. Enormous sums of money taking from the local Scio public with little or no exchange were invested on sprucing up the buildings but delivery, what an Org should be judged on, is out the bottom and I mean literally as even their sewage system has deteriorated and is now non sanitary.

The second comment is about your comment that CoS could be larger if someone did a simple analysis or data finding on what was causing the decline in their membership. By virtue of Hubbard's writings, THIS MUST HAPPEN BECAUSE STATS HAVE CRASHED!!! but as you imply, THIS CAN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE CoS CAN NEVER BE WRONG, HUBBARD CAN NEVER BE WRONG AND DM HAS MADE IT POLICY THAT HE CAN NEVER BE WRONG. Thus you have LRH policies dictating two opposite results at the same time, something Hubbard called a GPM and the general public refers to as a "Catch 22".

Unfortunately, at any time in CoS, if there is a dispute about PROMO and Delivery to the public or staff or CASH FLOW and Delivery to the public and staff, the PRO and MONEY will always triumph over Fair Exchange and Delivery. That is the way Hubbard wanted it, and it seems that DM is even more prone to having it that way than Hubbard was.
Lakey
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Thank you Lakey,

Well per the Going Clear fillm, Miscavage told someone that actually the situation was reverse, very few are 'good' and the rest are not at all.
 
Mama Corrects Lakey

Mama sent me a corrections as follows,

"Joanie Prather got Travolta in, not Spanky."

Thanks Mama, for keeping an eye on me. The new HBO movie covers the role Spanky played in J.T.'s scio career. Spanky did an awful lot bot being the first to get Travolta into CoS was not one of them.
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It was especially bad in Going Clear to see how Marty Rathbun's wife, never a Scientologist, has been harassed by CoS. Obviously if it continues her child will not even be able to play outside given the threat of those perverts stalking around and causing damage of whatever sort they can in the name of

'religious freedom'.

:roflmao:
 
Re: The banality of evil

Maria Cuervo said:
Thank you Lakey,

Well per the Going Clear fillm, Miscavage told someone that actually the situation was reverse, very few are 'good' and the rest are not at all.
Click to expand...

You are so spot on, Maria! Just a few words and you nailed it! If anybody who is still in and has heard DM say this, they should see right there that DM contradicted one of the cornerstone pieces of tech which LRH developed and which he built his treatment of the subject of Ethics around. This should set off some red flags in their minds and they should query this order and raise all sorts of hell. The fact that this is not routinely done is a huge red flag for all to see. Probably some have done this and have ended up in the RPF or worse yet, the "Hole". This probably dissuades the others from taking any action. WHAT A WAY TO GO FREE, LEARN HOW TO ADHERE TO A LIE AND NOT BE PUNISHED FOR RECOGNIZING IT AS A LIE!
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Maria Cuervo said:
It was especially bad in Going Clear to see how Marty Rathbun's wife, never a Scientologist, has been harassed by CoS. Obviously if it continues her child will not even be able to play outside given the threat of those perverts stalking around and causing damage of whatever sort they can in the name of

'religious freedom'.

:roflmao:
Click to expand...

Here's another piece of missing data,

Marty audited his wife Mosey to the state of 'Clear" and made a blog post about it And said she was "clear" as a bell.

oh, I forget the exact post, about 2 years ago.

My oh my, how things have changed.
 
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