The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: Heidrun Beer's Easter Message - A Theory of Life

I want to make some further comments on this slipping between cracks and being without ANY point of identification and maybe being subjected to being submarined by forces which you should remember to beware of...

By slipping between the cracks, the only thing which I can come up with would be that time is quantized. In our universe time is not a continuous flow. Time in a universe can exist in both forms, continuous or quantized. Probably there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. For this particular universe, the flow of time is quantized. One way of slipping through the cracks may be to fall between two quanta points of time or get out of synch with the agreed upon flow rate of time.

Since time and space are related phenomena and are spoken of as Spacetime in relativity theory, what is said for time may also be said for space.. Therefore if you slip through cracks in the Spacetime firmament, for all practical purposes you are operating outside of this universe and agreements made inside this universe would not necessarily apply.

They might apply fully or partially or they might not apply. I don't know which it is, maybe that might even vary entity to entity, being to being. My guess would be that for all entities they would not apply but that is just a guess.

Now, if you had identification and you slipped into one of these points, that identification would no longer be valid. It is pretty clear that anything you agreed to inside this universe would not apply outside of it. If it did apply outside this universe then the area outside this universe where your ID still applied could just be considered an extension of this universe. If you take that view, then your old ID would NOT apply in between the cracks. So with no ID what happens to you? Well you are basically in the same state you were BEFORE YOU DECIDED TO BE AN INDIVIDUA! There is a difference however, because now you are also in a different universe with different rules.

Being in a different Universe, why do you fear being submarined by unknown forces. You don't know any of the rules of this new universe. Is the native reaction to be leery and have fear? Probably not. First of all, with no body and no ID, how could anything hurt you. You could only be hurt if you agreed to be hurt. If you fear being submarined that would tend to reveal that you had been trusting somewhere in the past and had been betrayed but why worry about that when starting out new with no ID in a new universe? Be positive in approaching these "no points", since you have no ID, just figure that you can't be hurt. Make things happen the way you want. If the laws of the new universe fight you, pick up your old ID and get back in sync with your old universe.
Lakey

Dreaming bodies can have varying degrees of connection to one or more universes/dimensions/worlds simultaneously.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is never a static Id. A dream body is assembled by lines of reality/energy/force. These lines are always shifting. The physical body is one of our dream bodies that is more solid and since the most habitual the most persistent.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

A dream body is a cohesion or assemblage of forces. As is the physical one. These forces are many and varied, including the dreaming history, families/genes (soul or body). For me all of this is God's creation and not an evolution, but a mystery....in dreaming we see the most fluid form of 'body'.

 

[imSPecial]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Check out pages 1 to 5 of the thread for that info. Also, the other S.O. ships such as the Excalibur and Bolivar are discussed here as well. A large section about 1973 when I was in Treasury division was also discussed. Again and again, through out the history of the thread, now 5 1/2 years, life aboard the T.S.M.Y. Apollo comes up as well as mention of the year 1973. There is actually a search key you could use to find these pearls of wisdom.

One thing about the T.S.M.Y. Apollo is that in using the letters T.S.M.Y. Hubbard actually delivered in abundance. You see, the initials T.S.M. Y.. stood for Twin Screw Motor Yacht. Hubbard promised us a Twin Screw ship but he gave us more than that, he screwed me far more than two times! He screwed ne dozens of times, each time I got my $7 a week in Portugese Escudos, I was screwed. Each time he busted me and punished me I was screwed, etc. There is no doubt about it, he promised two screwings but he delivered many more than that. As regards screwing his crew members he definitely exchanged in abundance!!!
Lakey

Ahhh thanks!! I never knew there was a search key.

Just Kidding!

Actually, I've read through a lot of this, already. Keep hoping to find mentions of my family, is all. The problem with being all anonymous is that it precludes saying, "do you know my family members x, y, and z? And do you remember me?"

So I keep coming back and back....

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ahhh thanks!! I never knew there was a search key.

Just Kidding!

Actually, I've read through a lot of this, already. Keep hoping to find mentions of my family, is all. The problem with being all anonymous is that it precludes saying, "do you know my family members x, y, and z? And do you remember me?"

So I keep coming back and back....

If you can name a time and a place where your family was, I can PM you all that I know about that location at that time and maybe I might touch on your family, or if you trust me, you can just PM me their names and I'll tell you whether I know anything about them or not. Also, you first resource would be to use the search button, entering their names in the search box. Doing this will cover the entirety of ESMB, not just the Apollo Thread.
Lakey

 

[imSPecial]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

If you can name a time and a place where your family was, I can PM you all that I know about that location at that time and maybe I might touch on your family, or if you trust me, you can just PM me their names and I'll tell you whether I know anything about them or not. Also, you first resource would be to use the search button, entering their names in the search box. Doing this will cover the entirety of ESMB, not just the Apollo Thread.
Lakey

Thanks, I appreciate it. We might as well be named Bob Smith for how much fun it is to do a search, but I am fairly certain there are no mentions thus far. I may take you up on your PM offer, thank you.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I keep clicking on this thread hoping to read about the old days - aboard the Apollo - in 1973. Well, actually, I'm interested in the whole fleet. Maybe not quite 1973, either.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but it ain't the Apollo, nor 1973. Perhaps move to a thread about aspects, relationships, timeframes, etc?

Just saying.

imSpecial,

Well over 95% of the content on this Thread is not about the Apollo and well over 95% of the Apollo content was posted during the first 18-24 months of this Thread.

The OP of the Thread, lkwdblds (Lakey), was Apollo Crew for a number of months in '73 and initially the Thread was about his experiences on the Apollo. Here and there a small handful of ex Apollo Crew and Outer Org Students have made a few Posts on this Thread--primarily in the first 18-24 months.

The Apollo Thread is primarily sort of a "Movable Feast", ad hoc topic, "sub-Board" within a Board that's cultivated, fostered and "Hosted" by Lakey and, until recently, CO2.

If you're interested about the Apollo you'll have to do some searches on ESMB. Reading the first few months of the Apollo Thread will give you some really good, accurate and solid information and there is also some very good, solid and quite accurate information over the first 18 months or so of the Apollo Thread as well, but it's sprinkled in here and there within hundreds of other Posts that have nothing whatsoever to do with the Apollo, or even Scn.

In the first 18 to 24 months or so of the Apollo Thread there are a number of great Posts by a handful of "Old Timers" from the '60's-'70's and even the '50's that--although not Apollo Crew--were ACC Students, early and even original SHSBC Grads, Class VIII's, OT VII's & VIII's and "Original" OT VII's. I've rarely Posted on the Apollo Thread for over 3 years and the majority of those "Old Timers" have rarely Posted, if at all, on the Apollo Thread for several years.

There has been a smattering of ex Apollo Crew and Outer Org Students that have Posted in years past about the Apollo on ESMB...Cowboy, Bill Franks, Dart Smohen, David & Julie Mayo, Karen#1 (all of whom I knew and interacted with) to name a few. Karen#1 still Posts on ESMB (not on the Apollo Thread) and nearly all of these folks Posted very little, if at all, on the Apollo Thread.

I was Apollo Crew from the early '70's through the move to land and--amongst other things--served in Sea Org Senior Management, Scn International Management, CommodeDoors Staff, El Ron's Personal Staff and El Ron's Personal Office. I made a number of Posts from early 2010 to mid 2011 on this Thread regarding my Life and Times on the Apollo, El Ron, Scn, SO, Post Apollo, etc and have made Posts re: same on a number of ESMB Threads over the last 5 years.

In January, 2013 I started a Thread titled Shooting Stars--http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21698-Shooting-Stars&p=525100&viewfull1#post525100--that is a Narrative regarding my "Take" on El Ron, SO, Scn, Apollo, etc and within the "Installments" of my story are Links to some of the Posts I had made up to that point on the Apollo Thread and other Threads about those subjects.

Hope this helps.

Face

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

imSpecial,

Well over 95% of the content on this Thread is not about the Apollo and well over 95% of the Apollo content was posted during the first 18-24 months of this Thread.

The OP of the Thread, lkwdblds (Lakey), was Apollo Crew for a number of months in '73 and initially the Thread was about his experiences on the Apollo. Here and there a small handful of ex Apollo Crew and Outer Org Students have made a few Posts on this Thread--primarily in the first 18-24 months.

The Apollo Thread is primarily sort of a "Movable Feast", ad hoc topic, "sub-Board" within a Board that's cultivated, fostered and "Hosted" by Lakey and, until recently, CO2.

If you're interested about the Apollo you'll have to do some searches on ESMB. Reading the first few months of the Apollo Thread will give you some really good, accurate and solid information and there is also some very good, solid and quite accurate information over the first 18 months or so of the Apollo Thread as well, but it's sprinkled in here and there within hundreds of other Posts that have nothing whatsoever to do with the Apollo, or even Scn.

In the first 18 to 24 months or so of the Apollo Thread there are a number of great Posts by a handful of "Old Timers" from the '60's-'70's and even the '50's that--although not Apollo Crew--were ACC Students, early and even original SHSBC Grads, Class VIII's, OT VII's & VIII's and "Original" OT VII's. I've rarely Posted on the Apollo Thread for over 3 years and the majority of those "Old Timers" have rarely Posted, if at all, on the Apollo Thread for several years.

There has been a smattering of ex Apollo Crew and Outer Org Students that have Posted in years past about the Apollo on ESMB...Cowboy, Bill Franks, Dart Smohen, David & Julie Mayo, Karen#1 (all of whom I knew and interacted with) to name a few. Karen#1 still Posts on ESMB (not on the Apollo Thread) and nearly all of these folks Posted very little, if at all, on the Apollo Thread.

I was Apollo Crew from the early '70's through the move to land and--amongst other things--served in Sea Org Senior Management, Scn International Management, CommodeDoors Staff, El Ron's Personal Staff and El Ron's Personal Office. I made a number of Posts from early 2010 to mid 2011 on this Thread regarding my Life and Times on the Apollo, El Ron, Scn, SO, Post Apollo, etc and have made Posts re: same on a number of ESMB Threads over the last 5 years.

In January, 2013 I started a Thread titled Shooting Stars--http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21698-Shooting-Stars&p=525100&viewfull1#post525100--that is a Narrative regarding my "Take" on El Ron, SO, Scn, Apollo, etc and within the "Installments" of my story are Links to some of the Posts I had made up to that point on the Apollo Thread and other Threads about those subjects.

Hope this helps.

Face

Face has made an excellent post above. It is extremely accurate and I agree with every word of it. As I said a day or so ago, he is one of the best and most knowledgeable posters ever to write on ESMB.

All that being said, I want to make two other points. #1 - Many of the viewers who show up on this thread are referred here by the big search engines such as Google, Bing and Yahoo. One of the reasons why they land here is because we have discussed almost every topic under the Sun. Neither CO2 nor I foresaw that this would happen.

Point#2 - I am getting tired of reading and writing about Scientology, LRH and DM. Many of us finally have found all the answers which we were looking for and much more that we never even dreamed existed. Perhaps there are a few more tidbits to be uncovered. Tony Ortega, Mike Rinder, Marty and Karen can handle that better than anything I or even CO2 can do here.

Hubbard is Hubbard and he has been dead some 28 years. The innermost details of his life exist for all to see. He was a compulsive liar, Some still think much of his tech is great, many think all of it is worthless and then there are many who believe somewhere in between. Why beat the subject of Hubbard to death any longer? His life is now an open book. DM is going to be DM, the consensus from nearly everyone out of CoS is that he is a tyrant. He will go his own way despite any new posts about him on ESMB. We do have an obligation to help in the fight to curtail his human rights abuses but other than that, I believe that he should be ignored.

All that being said, we have an asset here in the Apollo thread. We have a fairly large number of people who Googled some topic and ended up being sent here. We no longer have many of the top dogs of ESMB posting here, most of them started leaving us about 3 years ago, just as Face stated. Knock on wood, we still have a group of regulars here who post some interesting posts. Maybe they post about Philosophy, or Classical Music, or Rock Music or parallel universes or beings slipping into a crack in this universe and possible losing their identiies. Whatever it is, those of us participating here are havng fun and are accumulating new knowledge in the bargain.

Should CO2 and I just pull the plug and let this thread die out? I don't know. Two to Four thousand views are occurring each day and some of us are having fun and learning new things. Five and a half years have been spent building this thread. Somehow pulling the plug doesn't seem like the right thing to do. I really am not sure what to do, let it die out or try and keep it going in some other format. I am open to suggestions.

As to the rest of ESMB, I have tried from time to time to dialogue with people on several threads and mainly all I see is some one liners which are supposed to be clever and funny but I don.t find then funny in the least. Any serious thoughts are either dismissed without a reply or attacked. For that reason, I just don't go there much anymore.

Thanks again to Face for his fabulous and accurate post. His own thread is not like the many threads I described above. It is fact filled and written in an interesting manner with lots of humor. For those wanting real knowledge about Cos, Hubbard and the Apollo, his thread would be at the top of my list of recommendations.

I'll discuss the matter more with CO2 and some of the friends whom I have made on this thread and get back with y'all later. in the meantime - Go in Peace!
Lakey

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Face has made an excellent post above. It is extremely accurate and I agree with every word of it. As I said a day or so ago, he is one of the best and most knowledgeable posters ever to write on ESMB.

All that being said, I want to make two other points. #1 - Many of the viewers who show up on this thread are referred here by the big search engines such as Google, Bing and Yahoo. One of the reasons why they land here is because we have discussed almost every topic under the Sun. Neither CO2 nor I foresaw that this would happen.

Point#2 - I am getting tired of reading and writing about Scientology, LRH and DM. Many of us finally have found all the answers which we were looking for and much more that we never even dreamed existed. Perhaps there are a few more tidbits to be uncovered. Tony Ortega, Mike Rinder, Marty and Karen can handle that better than anything I or even CO2 can do here.

Hubbard is Hubbard and he has been dead some 28 years. The innermost details of his life exist for all to see. He was a compulsive liar, Some still think much of his tech is great, many think all of it is worthless and then there are many who believe somewhere in between. Why beat the subject of Hubbard to death any longer? His life is now an open book. DM is going to be DM, the consensus from nearly everyone out of CoS is that he is a tyrant. He will go his own way despite any new posts about him on ESMB. We do have an obligation to help in the fight to curtail his human rights abuses but other than that, I believe that he should be ignored.

All that being said, we have an asset here in the Apollo thread. We have a fairly large number of people who Googled some topic and ended up being sent here. We no longer have many of the top dogs of ESMB posting here, most of them started leaving us about 3 years ago, just as Face stated. Knock on wood, we still have a group of regulars here who post some interesting posts. Maybe they post about Philosophy, or Classical Music, or Rock Music or parallel universes or beings slipping into a crack in this universe and possible losing their identiies. Whatever it is, those of us participating here are havng fun and are accumulating new knowledge in the bargain.

Should CO2 and I just pull the plug and let this thread die out? I don't know. Two to Four thousand views are occurring each day and some of us are having fun and learning new things. Five and a half years have been spent building this thread. Somehow pulling the plug doesn't seem like the right thing to do. I really am not sure what to do, let it die out or try and keep it going in some other format. I am open to suggestions.

As to the rest of ESMB, I have tried from time to time to dialogue with people on several threads and mainly all I see is some one liners which are supposed to be clever and funny but I don.t find then funny in the least. Any serious thoughts are either dismissed without a reply or attacked. For that reason, I just don't go there much anymore.

Thanks again to Face for his fabulous and accurate post. His own thread is not like the many threads I described above. It is fact filled and written in an interesting manner with lots of humor. For those wanting real knowledge about Cos, Hubbard and the Apollo, his thread would be at the top of my list of recommendations.

I'll discuss the matter more with CO2 and some of the friends whom I have made on this thread and get back with y'all later. in the meantime - Go in Peace!
Lakey

As new blood here all I can say is I like this rambling thread. I never know what is next. I used to listen to this radio station out of Nevada City, CA that had lots of different volunteer DJs. Tuning in was always an adventure. Might get the Utah Symphony, might get Utah Phillips. Don't quit.

 

[lkwdblds]

I just received my first C of S mailing in about 3 years.

Ever since my former family friend B.G. turned me in to O.C. Ethics for writting negatives on the internet about CoS, I stopped receiving all my Org mail since O C Org declared me a suppressive person. This week out of the blue, I received Advance!. the nice glossy magazine put out by AOLA. The magazine is till printed on glossy paper and is professionally done but it is thinner than previously. I noticed the OT Phenomena have been watered down quite a bit and the lists of people doing services is much smaller than before. Here are the stats{

Objectives - 26 people said to be doing them
Clear- 55 people on that
Solo Auditor Course Part II - 20 on that
OT Eligibility - 49 on that
R6 End Words - 3 on that
OT1 - 14 on that
OT II - 19 on that
OT III - 20 on that
OT IV - 21 on that
OT V - 22 on that

That is their entire line up. Some people appear on many lists. As far as the total number of people involved, it gives all the names but it would take too much time to sort out the exact number of individual names. If you add up all the numbers you get about 220 but most of the same people are cycling through these related courses doing each course in order. If the average person's name appeared on 4 lists, that would give a figure of 55 actual individuals doing the courses. Being generous, with the average person appearing on 3 lists, that would give about 75 individuals doing the courses.

47X expansion in the last couple of years, I don't think so. Compared to the length of the lists when I was doing those services in the 1990''s, I would estimate that 300 people were doing these courses and now that figure is more like 75 people. That is 1/4 the number of people on course. When you consider that AOL is the OT delivery Org for all of the Western USA, 75 people is not a very large number.

The Lead OT Phenomena Story is really tame. No superpowers were claimed, rather some guy who had to make a certain airplane flight realized that due to several snags at the airport, he was not going to make his flight. He went into a Q & A with himself about missing the flight. Just as the flight took off without him, he remembered that he was an OT and his postulates were very powerful so he postulated a positive outcome.

As soon as he made that postulate, he got a text message on his phone from a client who was offering to sign a substantial contract with him that night if he could cancel his flight. Well the flight had already left with out him so now he was there and could sign up this deal that night. He was happy about that and so he stood in line at the ticket counter to change his flight to the next day. He was expecting there to be a fine for missing his flight and rescheduling it but the airline company told him that their policy was that if you missed your flight, you could reschedule it to any time of your choosing and there would be no fine.

This OT attributed everything to the fact that after his plane took off, he decided to postulate a good outcome. When the text message from his client about signing the deal appeared on his phone, he attributed that to the postulate which he had just made. Since missing the flight and going the next day did not incur a penalty, and he got a request to sign up a deal that night, he figured that this was an excellent demonstration of his OT abilities. Can you believe that?!!!

I would never criticize someone else's wins but in this case, does anyone see any OT abilities being demonstrated? A guy had flown to another town to pitch a business deal. He did a good job with his presentation and the client said he would think about it and get back to him. The guy told the client he was flying out the next day to return home. The next day, the guy was running late and missed his flight. In such cases the airline already had a no fine policy. His postulate did not bear on that policy, it already existed.

Meanwhile, his client thought over the proposal and was anxious to sign the contract that night. He knew the guy was flying out shortly and left a text message saying that he would sign that night if the guy could cancel his flight. The guy happened to check his phone for text messages after missing his flight and he found his clients message. He was lucky, had he flown out, probably the client could have signed the contract in front of a Notary and Fed-exed it to him, using Fed Ex, no big deal. . All that happened is that by a stroke of luck or pure chance, missing his flight enabled him to sign the contract immediately instead of waiting a day or to to recieve the signed contract by Fedex.

I mean, that is not really a demonstration of OT abilities, That is barely even a watered down OT Ability, just speeding up the signing of a sale by a day or two and finding out that airlines don't necessarily fine customers if a customer is late to board a flight.

Back in the day, the OT success stories were much more impressive than this one. I am really surprised that Advance! magazine published that success story.
Lakey

 

[SPsince83]

Re: I just received my first C of S mailing in about 3 years.

Ever since my former family friend B.G. turned me in to O.C. Ethics for written negatives on the internet about CoS, I stopped receiving all mail. This week out of the blue, I received Advance!. the nice glossy magazine put out by AOLA. The magazine is till printed on glossy paper and is professionally done but it is thinner than previously. I noticed the OT Phenomena have been toned done quite a bit and the lists of people scheduled for services or doing services is much smaller than before. Here are the stats{

Objectives - 26 people said to be doing them
Clear- 55 people on that
Solo Auditor Course Part II - 20 on that
OT Eligibility - 49 on that
R6 End Words - 3 on that
OT1 - 14 on that
OT II - 19 on that
OT III - 20 on that
OT IV - 21 on that
OT V - 22 on that

That is their entire line up. Some people appear on many lists. As far as the total number of people involved, it gives all the names but it would take too much time to sort out the exact number of people. If you add up all the numbers you get about 220 but most of the same people are cycling through these course doing each course in order. If the average person's name appeared on 4 lists, that would give a figure of 55 actual individuals doing the courses. Being generous, with the average person appearing on 3 lists that would give about 75 individuals doing the courses.

47X expension in the last couple of years, I don't think so. Compared to the length of the lists when I was doing those services in the 1990''s, I would estimate that 300 people were doing these courses and now that figure is more like 75 people. That is 1/4 the number of people on course. When you consider that AOL is the OT delivery Org for all of the Western USA, 75 people is not a very large number.

The Lead OT Phenomena Story is really tame. No superpowers were claimed, rather some guy who had to make a certain airplane flight realized that due to several snags at the airport, he was not going to make his flight. He went into a Q & A with himself about missing the flight. Just as the flight took off without him, he remembered that he was an OT and his postulates were very powerful so he postulated a positive outcome.

As some as he made that postulate, he got a text message on his phone from a client who was offer to sign a substantial contract with him that night if he could cancel his flight. Well the flight had already left with out him so now he was there and could sign up this deal that night. He was happy about that and so he stood in line at the ticket counter to change his flight to the next day. He was expecting there to be a big fine for missing his flight and rescheduling but the airline company told him that their policy was that if you missed your flight, you could reschedule it to any time of your choosing and so there would be no fine.

This OT attributed everything to the fact that after his plane took off, the text message was on his phone to sign the deal. Since missing the flight and going the next day did not incur a penalty, and he got a request to sign up a deal that night, he figured that this was an excellent demonstration of his OT abilities.

I would never criticize someone else's gains but in this case, does anyone see any OT abilities being demonstrated. A guy had flown to another town to pitch a business deal. He did a good job with his presentation and the client said he would think about. The guy told the client he was flying out that night to return to his home city. The next day, the guy was running late and missed his flight. In such cases the airline had the police that the flight could be rescheduled without any penalty being imposed. No postulate of his was involved there, that policy already existed.

Meanwhile, his client thought over the proposal and was anxious to sign the contract that night. He knew the guy was flying out shortly and left a text message saying that he would sign that night if the guy could cancel his flight. The guy happened to check his phone for text messages after missing his flight and he found his clients message. He was lucky, had he flown out, probably the client could have signed the contract in front of a Notary and Fed-exed it to him using overnight service. All that happened is that by a stroke of luck or pure chance, missing his flight enabled him to sign the contract immediately instead of waiting a day or to to recieve the signed contract by Fedex.

I mean, that is not really a demonstration of OT abilities, That is barely even a watered down OT Ability, just speeding up the signing of a sale by a day or two and finding out that airlines don't necessarily fine customers if a customer is late to board a flight.

Back in the day, the OT success stories were much more impressive than this one. I am really surprised that Advance! magazine published that success story.
Lakey

Hmmm..... could it be that there has never been an oatee?

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Plotinus is quite amazing to read, if you have read the Enneads.

Yes, I've tried to digest that work several times. You are probably the only person who has given me feedback on the Enneads. I have brought them up several times on this board.

 

[imSPecial]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Face has made an excellent post above. It is extremely accurate and I agree with every word of it. As I said a day or so ago, he is one of the best and most knowledgeable posters ever to write on ESMB.

All that being said, I want to make two other points. #1 - Many of the viewers who show up on this thread are referred here by the big search engines such as Google, Bing and Yahoo. One of the reasons why they land here is because we have discussed almost every topic under the Sun. Neither CO2 nor I foresaw that this would happen.

Point#2 - I am getting tired of reading and writing about Scientology, LRH and DM. Many of us finally have found all the answers which we were looking for and much more that we never even dreamed existed. Perhaps there are a few more tidbits to be uncovered. Tony Ortega, Mike Rinder, Marty and Karen can handle that better than anything I or even CO2 can do here.

Hubbard is Hubbard and he has been dead some 28 years. The innermost details of his life exist for all to see. He was a compulsive liar, Some still think much of his tech is great, many think all of it is worthless and then there are many who believe somewhere in between. Why beat the subject of Hubbard to death any longer? His life is now an open book. DM is going to be DM, the consensus from nearly everyone out of CoS is that he is a tyrant. He will go his own way despite any new posts about him on ESMB. We do have an obligation to help in the fight to curtail his human rights abuses but other than that, I believe that he should be ignored.

All that being said, we have an asset here in the Apollo thread. We have a fairly large number of people who Googled some topic and ended up being sent here. We no longer have many of the top dogs of ESMB posting here, most of them started leaving us about 3 years ago, just as Face stated. Knock on wood, we still have a group of regulars here who post some interesting posts. Maybe they post about Philosophy, or Classical Music, or Rock Music or parallel universes or beings slipping into a crack in this universe and possible losing their identiies. Whatever it is, those of us participating here are havng fun and are accumulating new knowledge in the bargain.

Should CO2 and I just pull the plug and let this thread die out? I don't know. Two to Four thousand views are occurring each day and some of us are having fun and learning new things. Five and a half years have been spent building this thread. Somehow pulling the plug doesn't seem like the right thing to do. I really am not sure what to do, let it die out or try and keep it going in some other format. I am open to suggestions.

As to the rest of ESMB, I have tried from time to time to dialogue with people on several threads and mainly all I see is some one liners which are supposed to be clever and funny but I don.t find then funny in the least. Any serious thoughts are either dismissed without a reply or attacked. For that reason, I just don't go there much anymore.

Thanks again to Face for his fabulous and accurate post. His own thread is not like the many threads I described above. It is fact filled and written in an interesting manner with lots of humor. For those wanting real knowledge about Cos, Hubbard and the Apollo, his thread would be at the top of my list of recommendations.

I'll discuss the matter more with CO2 and some of the friends whom I have made on this thread and get back with y'all later. in the meantime - Go in Peace!
Lakey

Thanks very much for this.

I've spent a lot of hours poring through the back rooms of ESMB looking for what I'm looking for so please don't think I was just being lazy. Cheeky more like it.

It is hard to say out loud what I'm looking for other than some stuff about the infants/toddlers/children that were there from the early days of the sea org on the fleet and then onto land in Europe. Their treatment, who were the nannies, how did family time work at that time. If the kids were sick, what happened, major incidents relating to child health and welfare etc. Domestic stuff as opposed to anything actually scn related. I do find little mentions here and there but the contextual data given mostly doesn't match my memories so I guess that there were several split groups of sea org members and the posters were just not where we were. I don't really know for sure but that comes with being young at the time.

There is SO much more to life that scn, lrh and all that b.s. but I do value the rest of ESMB perhaps because the nonsense still actively butts into my life.

Thanks again.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes, I've tried to digest that work several times. You are probably the only person who has given me feedback on the Enneads. I have brought them up several times on this board.

If it's ok with you I can PM a thing I wrote on Plotinus' Ennead on the Intellectual beauty. I didn't publish it since it still needed a bit more fleshing out but it is not that long, and is readable, and it explains how I interpret that Ennead. (It might be a bit much to post it here due to length, maybe 5-6 pages). I might have written commentary on 2-3 of the other Enneads as well. I've read all of Plato so I do understand Plotinus' (at times) more materialist form of Platonism....If you are reading the Enneads feel free to ask me anything. A very close friend of mine is a Plotinian scholar. She knows more about Plotinus than most people in the country. Her and I often get together at a brew pub near by and talk in-depth about Plato, Plotinus and other ancient/Medieval thinkers.

I go back and forth as to which I like better. Plotinus is more detailed in his conception of the hypostases, the way that truth emanates down and enters materiality and the way that Soul works in relation to the One. He clarified this connection, which Plato never did. Sometimes I read Plotinus and think that maybe in some cases or at some stage of emanation Matter is primordial for him, the stuff from which all takes on form and comes to be as it emanates from the One....certainly soul has material aspects in Plotinus. In Plato there is no explanation of how material things occur, except that they are considered to be illusions. As for soul, it is purely ideal and has no material aspects. At least as Plato interprets Socrates that seems to be the case presented in the Phaedo dialogue; but then a thing happens in Plato, that different dialogues make things said in other dialogues open to further discussion....such that all the dialogues end in questions or aporia rather than with clear definitions. Now definition is the goal of Socratic dialogue, the sole purpose of the elenchus is diaeresis, which is indeed 'definition'; but due to the difficulty of questions of a metaphysical nature and the impossibility of answering them, I think the dialogues rightly end in aporia. When I was still teaching I used to draw diagrams on the board of all these things and the relations and to try and show students the difference in the definition of 'soul' for Plato and for Plotinus. And many other definitions are different for them.... I suppose that is why Plotinus is a neo-Platonist, not a straight-up Platonist. As for Porphyry, as Plotinus' student and the one who transcribes the Enneads, I have much less to say about him except to say that in the same way Plato transcribes Socrates so that it is hard to tell who is who or how Plato changed Socrates, Porphyry transcribes Plotinus.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

PS Please note that Christianity is highly Plotinian and Platonic and Aristotelian insofar as all the early church fathers LIVED ON and were schooled on Aristotle, Plato, Plotinus and others. Some Christians will argue against what I have just said, not realizing the voluminous record. The historical record is too huge and obvious to ignore this legacy. This does not mean that they did not have specific criticisms of those philosophies. But it does mean they highly respected these thinkers and felt impelled to respond to and to justify every ounce of Christianity against those thinkers. And they did it, wrote endless commentaries on these topics for hundreds of years. Also note that some strands of Judaism are likewise affected although I am not as knowledgeable of this as I am of Platonism's legacy in Christianity. I am philosophically most interested in Plato, Plotinus, Nietzsche, Deleuze and in general existential philosophies, e.g., Gabriel Marcel and Kierkegaard, both Christian existentialists.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks very much for this.

I've spent a lot of hours poring through the back rooms of ESMB looking for what I'm looking for so please don't think I was just being lazy. Cheeky more like it.

It is hard to say out loud what I'm looking for other than some stuff about the infants/toddlers/children that were there from the early days of the sea org on the fleet and then onto land in Europe. Their treatment, who were the nannies, how did family time work at that time. If the kids were sick, what happened, major incidents relating to child health and welfare etc. Domestic stuff as opposed to anything actually scn related. I do find little mentions here and there but the contextual data given mostly doesn't match my memories so I guess that there were several split groups of sea org members and the posters were just not where we were. I don't really know for sure but that comes with being young at the time.

There is SO much more to life that scn, lrh and all that b.s. but I do value the rest of ESMB perhaps because the nonsense still actively butts into my life.

Thanks again.

You want to talk to Purple Haze who is on ESMB. She was a Nanny for Mary Sue Hubbardrd in the early days of the S.O., aboard the Apollo when it was called the Royal Scotsman, and she was responsible for tutoring Yvonne Jentzsch's two daughters who both became Commodore's Messengers.
Lakey

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

PS Please note that Christianity is highly Plotinian and Platonic and Aristotelian insofar as all the early church fathers LIVED ON and were schooled on Aristotle, Plato, Plotinus and others. Some Christians will argue against what I have just said, not realizing the voluminous record. The historical record is too huge and obvious to ignore this legacy. This does not mean that they did not have specific criticisms of those philosophies. But it does mean they highly respected these thinkers and felt impelled to respond to and to justify every ounce of Christianity against those thinkers. And they did it, wrote endless commentaries on these topics for hundreds of years. Also note that some strands of Judaism are likewise affected although I am not as knowledgeable of this as I am of Platonism's legacy in Christianity. I am philosophically most interested in Plato, Plotinus, Nietzsche, Deleuze and in general existential philosophies, e.g., Gabriel Marcel and Kierkegaard, both Christian existentialists.

YES! Send me your stuff. PM me and we can maybe put some of the six pages here.

I just went into my Adobe Reader on my gadget here. Now you are being tood it is NEW and for 14.99 per month you can have a cloud and share like in google docs. But for 9.99 you get PDF creator or even a free app. You can later upload to sky drive or google drive and share so I don't get it. Those are free I think. I successfully attached a pdf file to a post here once. NowI forgot how. I once could delete all traces of the fact I made a duplicate post. I forgot how I did that too here. Chrissakes. I am not even 60 yet and I'm sliding down towards dementia....fast. hehehe

http://classics.mit.edu/Plotinus/enneads.html

http://sacred-texts.com/cla/plotenn/index.htm

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/plotinus/enneads.html

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

He he. Tomorrow morning I will find and send you the Plotinus. If you want to post any of it please choose what ok? Since I would enjoy/like to see what strikes you as interesting there. Well I doubt the writer of your last several posts could be anywhere near dementia!

I have adobe acrobat so I can create PDFs.
I have heard cute ftp is good but not sure if it is still free. If you can figure out how to attach a pdf here that would be neat. I am sure it can't be hard....
Thank you for the links. A problem with getting a good copy of the enneads is that so often it is just the abridged version.....
Will check and see what these versions are like.

YES! Send me your stuff. PM me and we can maybe put some of the six pages here.

I just went into my Adobe Reader on my gadget here. Now you are being tood it is NEW and for 14.99 per month you can have a cloud and share like in google docs. But for 9.99 you get PDF creator or even a free app. You can later upload to sky drive or google drive and share so I don't get it. Those are free I think. I successfully attached a pdf file to a post here once. NowI forgot how. I once could delete all traces of the fact I made a duplicate post. I forgot how I did that too here. Chrissakes. I am not even 60 yet and I'm sliding down towards dementia....fast. hehehe

http://classics.mit.edu/Plotinus/enneads.html

http://sacred-texts.com/cla/plotenn/index.htm

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/plotinus/enneads.html

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I remember reading about this guy dancing around on hot coals trying to prove to the right powers that his writings were not heretical. Oh what a fine line the Christian geniuses of the Renaissance walked with all their brilliance, steering clear of the Pope least he proclaim you had denied fundamental Christian doctrine.

Pico della Mirandola

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pico-della-mirandola/

http://faculty.uml.edu/CulturalStudies/Italian_Renaissance/8_9_c.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10352a.htm


Yes, the Church Fathers were always arguing logics expounded by the ancient philosophers
http://www.helltruth.com/history/ancient-beliefs

http://thecenterfortheologicalstudi...a=X&ei=iQsmVd3KLYK4sAWciIOIDg&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAw

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

thank you for the links! Sorry to go off-topic but...
you just reminded me of the convulsionaires! Lots of art about them and writings - not just wikipedia.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convulsionnaires_of_Saint-Médard

here is voltaire's fanciful explanation.
https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/v/voltaire/dictionary/chapter135.html
of course Voltaire's explanation is more interesting!!

I remember reading about this guy dancing around on hot coals trying to prove to the right powers that his writings were not heretical. Oh what a fine the Christian geniuses of the Renaissance walked with all their brilliance, steering clear of the Pope least he proclaim you had denied fundamental Christian doctrine.


Pico della Mirandola

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pico-della-mirandola/

http://faculty.uml.edu/CulturalStudies/Italian_Renaissance/8_9_c.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10352a.htm


Yes, the Church Fathers were always arguing logics expounded by the ancient philosophers
http://www.helltruth.com/history/ancient-beliefs

http://thecenterfortheologicalstudi...a=X&ei=iQsmVd3KLYK4sAWciIOIDg&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAw[/QUOTE