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MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That's because machines are MUCH easier to understand than people. Machines are consistent! :)

Helena

Machines are not necessarily easier to understand for certain human beings, but they certainly are more merciless.

MrN, knowing several woodworkers who've lost a few fingers on the table saw. :coolwink:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mr N, Helena and Lakey; just want to say that I'm enjoying this series of posts from you all about the early days of programming. Keep 'em coming!

Some time early in 1972, when I would have been 13 or 14, my dad's boss (who'd been to the same school as I was at) had a social evening with us at our house and gave me possibly the worst careers advice ever.

We were discussing the courses that graduating pupils from our school went on to do at college and the conversation turned to a Greek boy who'd just left school and gone on to do Computer Studies. My dad's boss said "You're onto a loser there", and cited the case of someone he knew who 'd graduated in the same subject the previous summer and had still to find a job.

He obviously didn't know the world was going to change and that Britain was going to be crying out for all the good computer people it could get...

Talk about missing the boat or getting it wrong, how wrong could someone be or how bad an advice could someone give. Hard to beat those examples.

I will say this in their defense. Way back around the late 70's or early 80's, I saw ads on TV from IBM, advertising computers to the public. I thought of computers as the big giant main frame units which I had worked with for 9 years. I sort of did something along the lines of your dad's boss and I wondered and wondered why IBM was trying to sell the public on electronic computers. I thought to myself, computers are mainly for large business or applications or for scientific and engineering application. Professional scientists, programmers and engineers are required to operate them. This is all way above the head of the general public.

Of course, as it turned out, I could not have been more wrong in my assessment! Fortunately, I gave no one advice for had I done so, my advice would have been exactly what your dad's boss was saying.

By the mid to late 80's, we had the case where I could barely turn on the first computer we bought for our business. By the time he was 5, when my son game to the office, he wanted to play on the computer. He just sat down and made the computer "Play Dixie". His fingers were flying all over the keyboard, he was installing apps, games and such with total certainty and at speed. Myself with a programming background had no idea what buttons to push to get started with anything. It was amazing and it still amazes me.

Today's youth seem to be born to work high tech items, computers, cell phones, kindles, tablets, all this stuff. At 3 years old, they often have a good feel for the basic steps and by 5 or 6, they have things pretty well mastered. My generation and up to 10 years younger aren't able to learn any of the fancy applications available on a cell phone, for instance. Mainly all we do is use it as a phone or may also a camera. Most of these incredible high tech applications are beyond our reach. I would guess that the cut age today is around 65. Those around 65 or younger are computer literate and those over 65 such as myself are computer illiterate.

THE SECRET WEAPON FOR THE OLDSTERS My Son got me a smart phone for my birthday about 1 1/2 years ago. I told him to make sure it has voice command and he did. With this voice command feature, I can do most of the things which a young person can do by pressing keys. I say almost anything I want with my live voice, talking into the machine and it executes almost every application for me without me having to try and press various keys to find what I am looking for. That is truly an equalizer.

Weird things about getting older. For me, this is a mixed bag. The years are rolling on, when I was a kid, men my age had walkers or were in wheel chairs for the most part. Now with me, there is almost no noticeable difference mentally or even physically unless I am exercising. The only mental difference is having some senior moments every now and then where I will forget a name or a phone number or something like that. A whole small area seems to blank out or I can forget where I left my wallet or keys.

My speaking voice, the inflections and pauses and such have not changed one iota. Usually, if I make a phone call on business and talk to someone live, we get to talking and usually the other person is between 25 and 40. They might bring up something and I might tell them that when I was a kid, we didn't have that but instead we had such and such. Almost always, the other person says, but you sound about my same age. I'll ask them what their age is and whatever they say I will say that I am 35 years older than you or 45 years older than you and they don't believe it. They'll say that they are 27 and they figured I was about their same age. The point is that some things go and some things stay the same.

I saw Art Linkletter and Ernest Borgnine booth be interviewed in their early 90's, they were both sharp as a tack neither one looked particularly old, not much more than their early 70's. As it turned out, both fellows, wonderful men, died of natural cause around age 95 but at 90 they appeared to be in excellent shape.
Lakey
 

CO2

Patron Meritorious
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Talk about missing the boat or getting it wrong, how wrong could someone be or how bad an advice could someone give. Hard to beat those examples.

I will say this in their defense. Way back around the late 70's or early 80's, I saw ads on TV from IBM, advertising computers to the public. I thought of computers as the big giant main frame units which I had worked with for 9 years. I sort of did something along the lines of your dad's boss and I wondered and wondered why IBM was trying to sell the public on electronic computers. I thought to myself, computers are mainly for large business or applications or for scientific and engineering application. Professional scientists, programmers and engineers are required to operate them. This is all way above the head of the general public.

Of course, as it turned out, I could not have been more wrong in my assessment! Fortunately, I gave no one advice for had I done so, my advice would have been exactly what your dad's boss was saying.

By the mid to late 80's, we had the case where I could barely turn on the first computer we bought for our business. By the time he was 5, when my son game to the office, he wanted to play on the computer. He just sat down and made the computer "Play Dixie". His fingers were flying all over the keyboard, he was installing apps, games and such with total certainty and at speed. Myself with a programming background had no idea what buttons to push to get started with anything. It was amazing and it still amazes me.

Today's youth seem to be born to work high tech items, computers, cell phones, kindles, tablets, all this stuff. At 3 years old, they often have a good feel for the basic steps and by 5 or 6, they have things pretty well mastered. My generation and up to 10 years younger aren't able to learn any of the fancy applications available on a cell phone, for instance. Mainly all we do is use it as a phone or may also a camera. Most of these incredible high tech applications are beyond our reach. I would guess that the cut age today is around 65. Those around 65 or younger are computer literate and those over 65 such as myself are computer illiterate.

THE SECRET WEAPON FOR THE OLDSTERS My Son got me a smart phone for my birthday about 1 1/2 years ago. I told him to make sure it has voice command and he did. With this voice command feature, I can do most of the things which a young person can do by pressing keys. I say almost anything I want with my live voice, talking into the machine and it executes almost every application for me without me having to try and press various keys to find what I am looking for. That is truly an equalizer.

Weird things about getting older. For me, this is a mixed bag. The years are rolling on, when I was a kid, men my age had walkers or were in wheel chairs for the most part. Now with me, there is almost no noticeable difference mentally or even physically unless I am exercising. The only mental difference is having some senior moments every now and then where I will forget a name or a phone number or something like that. A whole small area seems to blank out or I can forget where I left my wallet or keys.

My speaking voice, the inflections and pauses and such have not changed one iota. Usually, if I make a phone call on business and talk to someone live, we get to talking and usually the other person is between 25 and 40. They might bring up something and I might tell them that when I was a kid, we didn't have that but instead we had such and such. Almost always, the other person says, but you sound about my same age. I'll ask them what their age is and whatever they say I will say that I am 35 years older than you or 45 years older than you and they don't believe it. They'll say that they are 27 and they figured I was about their same age. The point is that some things go and some things stay the same.

I saw Art Linkletter and Ernest Borgnine booth be interviewed in their early 90's, they were both sharp as a tack neither one looked particularly old, not much more than their early 70's. As it turned out, both fellows, wonderful men, died of natural cause around age 95 but at 90 they appeared to be in excellent shape.
Lakey

[video]https://youtu.be/594WLzzb3JI[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/PSxihhBzCjk[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/jDfbWDLNjjE[/video]
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Sheesh you guys are about 6 years older than me. I studied FORTRAN and COBOL at DeAnza college in 1970. <snip>

COBOL was already dismissed and ridiculed for being so outdated, when I began that school training, and you probably know what most people think about SQL. :coolwink: These two languages, however, made my path to become an SAP organisator/consultant FI/CO and ABAP/IV programmer a piece of cake, 10 years later. And that's true not only for me, but also for 2 of my classmates who had the same previous training in COBOL and SQL.

Usually, we 3 arrived a little late in the morning, quickly checked what the stuff taught and the assignments were for that day, hacked our solutions into the computer, and could call it a day, often enough even before breakfast break.

Since our presence was mandatory in that SAP course, we then spent most of our time in the cafeteria, where we discussed some more difficult IT problems with the teachers of other classes, who also spent their time in that cafeteria, while their students were dealing with their assignments.

Since some of these teachers held veritable doctorates in maths and IT-related stuff from several universities, the discussions we've had with 'em were a lot more interesting and exciting than what our own teachers had in stock - and since we always turned in our own assignments so early, we were called "The Dream Team" in that school.

So our every-day routine went like this: Arrive late for school, ask the teacher about the topics and the assignments for that day, write down the solutions for any tests and assignments, then go to the cafeteria to discuss more interesting stuff with more advanced teachers. Then, in the afternoon, we went back to our classroom to help our classmates to finish their assignments.

The better ones of our teachers were very happy with this unspoken arrangement we had and some of the worse teachers could never understand why the school director didn't just kick us out for our "insubordinations".

LOL, one of our worst teachers once attempted to call me out for my "bad behavior" and after I was finished with him, he called in sick for the rest of his contract - although I didn't even touch him. :biggrin:

Those were the good ole days... :coolwink:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I stumbled upon this video of Phil Donahue interviewing the Reverend Louis Farakhan, this year, in front of a live audience on the Phil Donahue show. I found this interview to be extremely interesting and informative. There is nothing in this video about Scientology or Dianetics. The topic which they discuss is Farakhan's desire for Black people to be paid reparations for the hundreds of years that they were mistreated and denied education in the USA, going back over 400 years, well before the USA even existed. He is looking for money and land, both land inside the USA as well as land in Africa as well, for those Blacks who want to return to Africa.

I think that Farakhan makes a compelling case for these views which he believes in. Donahue does an extremely good job as the moderator of the show and many interesting questions are asked by members of the audience. On this particular topic, I do not see that Farakkhan is using NLP or trying to brainwash his own people or the white audience.

IMO, Farakhan is speaking straight from his heart and his arguments are legitimate and they are compelling. I almost would favor the US government going ahead with his recommendations. I don't quite go that far because of only one thing but it is a very big thing. Farakhan's beliefs are predicated on the belief that all government efforts to fully integrate Blacks into US society as equals with Whites and other races has failed. I don't totally subscribe to that although I can understand how Farakhan feels that to be true. He blames the Blacks failure to be able to fully integrate into US society on White people for denying Blacks for hundreds of years the opportunity to learn their heritage and their culture. He believes that this failure in educating Blacks in Black History and culture for hundreds of years has led to Black acceptance of the theory that Black people are second class citizens. I do believe that quite possibly that is true in the sense that Black people believe it. However, the principle is, of course, not at all true.

Say there are about 45 million Back people in the USA. I would hazard a guess that about 25 -30 million of those people believe that Blacks HAVE integrated successfully into the general US populations and do not want to give up being US citizens while maybe 15- 20 million might want to relocate to an all Black country to be newly formed. Farakhan does not see it that way, he feels that it is a fact that Blacks in general have failed to make it in the USA and that the US governments has made the problem worse by shipping millions of jobs overseas to markets with very cheap labor, further disenfranchising Blacks. Farakhan is looking for reparations and land so Black culture can separate out from the USA.

I come very close to believing Farakhan is correct, except for my one big difference stated in the paragraph above. Differing with him in that one paragraph is the main thing that prevents me from fully supporting the idea of Black people receiving reparations and being given land both within the USA and in Africa, so as to separate out from WHite US culture and live independently from Whites, if they wish.

Watch and listen to this debate between Donahue and Farakhan on the Donahue show this year. It is really an amazingly interesting video!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvlIQymUddE

Lakey
 
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ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I just noticed this discussion about computers. I spent my whole career as a COBOL programmer/systems analyst/consultant etc.

In 1971 I was a trainee accountant and my employers were getting a mainframe computer - a Honeywell 115. They wanted a trainee programmer so almost everyone in the company was given an aptitude test. They said the pass mark was 45% so anyone who could achieve this would be eligible.

Well, I got 85% and the next person to me got about 50%. The computer guys seemed to think I must be some sort of alien.:ohmy:

Anyway, I'd found my niche in life so I became a trainee COBOL programmer.

I was trained on-the-job for a couple of months then sent on a proper COBOL course. By that time I knew more than the instructor so he would check with me whenever he wasn't sure of something.:yes:

Yes, I remember punched cards. I used to use a hand punch myself to put my programs into the computer but later they had punch machines with female punch operators.

I remember once having a problem with a program I'd written and I announced to my co-workers that the reason my program wasn't working was because there was something wrong with the computer! I was serious.

It was a Univac 9480. I went to see the manager and told him to get the engineer out because the computer was making a mistake every time it ran my program! Needless to say I was treated like I was nuts but I persisted so they called out the engineer.

I told hime that there was something wrong with a particular part of the memory because every time my program was loaded into that section there was an error in calculations but whenever I loaded it into another area of memory the calculations were correct.

He checked it out and found a bent pin! I was right, the computer was wrong. I became an instant legend.:clap:
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I just noticed this discussion about computers. I spent my whole career as a COBOL programmer/systems analyst/consultant etc.

In 1971 I was a trainee accountant and my employers were getting a mainframe computer - a Honeywell 115. They wanted a trainee programmer so almost everyone in the company was given an aptitude test. They said the pass mark was 45% so anyone who could achieve this would be eligible.

Well, I got 85% and the next person to me got about 50%. The computer guys seemed to think I must be some sort of alien.:ohmy:

Anyway, I'd found my niche in life so I became a trainee COBOL programmer.

I was trained on-the-job for a couple of months then sent on a proper COBOL course. By that time I knew more than the instructor so he would check with me whenever he wasn't sure of something.:yes:

Yes, I remember punched cards. I used to use a hand punch myself to put my programs into the computer but later they had punch machines with female punch operators.

I remember once having a problem with a program I'd written and I announced to my co-workers that the reason my program wasn't working was because there was something wrong with the computer! I was serious.

It was a Univac 9480. I went to see the manager and told him to get the engineer out because the computer was making a mistake every time it ran my program! Needless to say I was treated like I was nuts but I persisted so they called out the engineer.

I told hime that there was something wrong with a particular part of the memory because every time my program was loaded into that section there was an error in calculations but whenever I loaded it into another area of memory the calculations were correct.

He checked it out and found a bent pin! I was right, the computer was wrong. I became an instant legend.:clap:

I was actually very late to the whole IT party, so I was one of the last people who got trained in COBOL. Sad little tidbit: The year I finally graduated, was the final year for my profession - it got canceled out nation-wide and was replaced with 16 :)shock:) different new IT-professions. OK, only 8 new professions replaced my old one, the other 8 were for the hardware people. Since our class was the last class ever graduating in this profession in this country, we were also the testing ground for most of the new classes which were to come next year.

So there we were, a whole class of brand new, freshly graduated IT-professionals, with both, the "old" and the "new" knowledge under our belt, and nobody wanted to have us. Employers just heard our job title "Datenverarbeitungskaufmann" Yeah, that word is as ugly as it is long and if you wanna translate it, you'll inevitably fail) and automatically thought: "Ugh, no, no thanks, we don't need employees with outdated knowledge."

So most of our class had to make a living as freelance programmer, SysAdmin, or any other remotely IT- or accounting-related job we could grab.

Then, a few years later, when SAP-people were in demand everywhere, many of us jumped on that bandwagon.

So, I was never really given the chance to write anything important in COBOL, but I became kinda famous for my ABAP-IV programs. While I worked for an international market leader, I sometimes pumped out up to 10 programs per day and since my stuff was so intertwined with accounting, warehousing etc, not to forget the monstrous SAP database with literally millions of tables, every single one of my programs had to be flawless. After all, one typo in an SQL statement or user form in one of my programs could potentially cost the enterprise millions and me my job.

After a few years I decided that this job was too stressful for me, so I left and worked as SysAdmin in a small IT school for a while and then decided to go back to my previous career and became musician again. Since unknown musicians in unknown bands don't make much money, I also take some handcraft jobs, occasionally.

Currently I'm semi-retired, but should I get the left side of my body back in shape, I'll be fully back in the game. :)

No what was the topic? Oh yeah, COBOL! In the mid-nineties, during one of the CEBIT shows, a new COBOL platform was presented, by MicroFocus, IIRC, which combined the "old" programming features with the "new" ones, so that you could have C-libraries and -sub-routines directly within your COBOL source code. A very interesting concept, but I haven't seen it gain any significant traction on the market.

I worked with a C-style scripting language when I was writing custom Eagle-ULPs (User language programs) for an electronics R&D center. Another very interesting job. Being directly involved in the design and creation of a brand new and revolutionary product and knowing that, one day, you'll see the end result of your work in every supermarket worldwide, is a special kind of satisfaction. :)
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It was SAP that ultimately ended my career in software.

I was an expert in a particular on-line accountancy system written in COBOL and I went freelance. I got a contract that was supposed to be for 2 months but they kept me for 17 years!

Then they announced they were replacing the system with SAP so I was no longer required. By then I'd decided I wasn't going to start looking for contracts again so I just stopped working.

Despite being in Scientology for over 15 years I'd managed to hold on to enough money to keep me going so I am now happily retired.:yes:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I just noticed this discussion about computers. I spent my whole career as a COBOL programmer/systems analyst/consultant etc.

In 1971 I was a trainee accountant and my employers were getting a mainframe computer - a Honeywell 115. They wanted a trainee programmer so almost everyone in the company was given an aptitude test. They said the pass mark was 45% so anyone who could achieve this would be eligible.

Well, I got 85% and the next person to me got about 50%. The computer guys seemed to think I must be some sort of alien.:ohmy:

Anyway, I'd found my niche in life so I became a trainee COBOL programmer.

I was trained on-the-job for a couple of months then sent on a proper COBOL course. By that time I knew more than the instructor so he would check with me whenever he wasn't sure of something.:yes:

Yes, I remember punched cards. I used to use a hand punch myself to put my programs into the computer but later they had punch machines with female punch operators.

I remember once having a problem with a program I'd written and I announced to my co-workers that the reason my program wasn't working was because there was something wrong with the computer! I was serious.

It was a Univac 9480. I went to see the manager and told him to get the engineer out because the computer was making a mistake every time it ran my program! Needless to say I was treated like I was nuts but I persisted so they called out the engineer.

I told hime that there was something wrong with a particular part of the memory because every time my program was loaded into that section there was an error in calculations but whenever I loaded it into another area of memory the calculations were correct.

He checked it out and found a bent pin! I was right, the computer was wrong. I became an instant legend.:clap:

Great story! What a reputation you must have had at your company!! I thought that I had seen it all but never experienced anything like that. One thing that could have been done without bringing in an engineer to check out the computer would have been to simply run your program on another Univac 9480 computer, if they had more than one in your company. Had that been possible, your program would have run fine on any other Univac 9480 and immediately everyone would have known your machine was defective. Of course having more than one of those big main frame computers was rare. A small to medium size company likely would have had only one such machine. Only a huge operation such as NASA or maybe Lockheed or North American Aviation would have had more than one machine in house.

THE TOUGHEST DEBUG WHICH I EVER RAN INTO
At MacDonald Douglas, some new programmer had created a program. The company was using the IBM 7094 computer, one of the most powerful computers of it's day. The memory capacity was only 64,000 bytes, which is tiny when compared to the memory of even a small home computer today. A certain portion of the 64K memory was used for the computer system and software and the remainder was used for the program to be run and for data storage.

Every time this person ran his program, the computer would go wild and start storing data in the portion of the computer system which was reserved for the software. The computer run would blow up as a result because part of operating system was being over written. This programmer came to see me to get me to help him in debugging his program. By then, I thought I knew all the tricks of the debugging trade and told him that I would solve his problem in a day or two. I looked at his code and it wasn't done very efficiently but it should have worked but it didn't. I looked over every step of the program and nothing seemed to be wrong.

His program had what was called a "Do Loop". A programmer could write something like, DO 100, I EQUALS 1, 500, then the next command might be, GO TO 200. This command would tell the computer to do a mathematical operation 500 times, starting at location #100 and then branch to location #200 to continue with the next step. This program would get into the Do Loop and then blow up. it would never get to the next step at location 200. No matter what input data I tried, I could never get beyond that Do Loop. I went in and instead of ordering the computer to do the loop, 500 times, I tried 100 times, then I tried 10 times and them I tried 2 times and finally a tried just one time and the computer still blew up.

I suspected computer mal function similar similar to Thetan Exterior's situation. I had been debugging this program for nearly 2 weeks now and I could not debug it. I was down to my last resource and if this resource failed, I was ready to admit defeat and/or tell them that there was an error in the computer hardware, just like Thetan Exterior did.

My last trick was to order print outs, called "dumps" where we could have the computer print out the contents of various key registers inside the software portion of the memory. If there was a hardware failure, at least we would find out the exact point where it occurred.

I readied my run and decided to do what was called a P-DUMP every five commands and see at what point the computer program was blowing up. The computer blew up within the first commands, then I did my P-DUMP every 2 commands, it still blew up and then I printed out the P DUMP after every command and found that itl blew up at the first command of the "Do Loop".

I now had to look at the first command to see if there was anything wrong with it. If there was nothing wrong, then I was done, whatever the problem was, it had to be a hardware problem, or so I thought, in the computer hardware just like in Thetan Exterior's case.

The exact command where the computer program blew up was the at the "Do Loop", Do 100, I EQUALS 1, 500. This command looked okay, it ordered the computer to do a simple arithmetic operation 500 times, each time increasing the parameter "I" by a factor of "1" unil "I"reached 500 and then the computer program would just continue on its merry way. There just seemed to be nothing wrong. I decided to get out a magnifying glass and look at the command itself. What could be wrong here, why was something going wrong when the computer attempted to execute this simple "Do Loop"? I was just stumped, I was looking at the program with my magnifying class thinking that it just could not be a hardware problem, something had to be wrong with this "Do Loop". I refused to give up. Suddenly I saw an error, I'll never forget the feeling. In another instant I knew that the program was now debugged. I felt like Archimedes in the bath tub when he figured out the law of hydrolics or whatever it's called. I started running around the cubicle where I worked, saying to myself, "I found it, I found it!" Why didn't I think of this before? why didn't I see it on the first day?

What was the problem? The computer printer had two characters which looked almost exactly the same, the letter, capital "O", and the number zero, "0". The computer hardware did not make the number 0 narrower as my current text is showing. Instead, the convention in computing was to put a very light slash through a zero and the "0" with the slash, "/" through it was to be the letter, capital "O".

When this program originally got typed up, whoever did the keypunching miss typed a capital "O" and put the number "0" in for the letter "O", thus in the command DO such and such, it actually stated D0 such and such. The FORTRAN compiler should have flagged this when it converted the FORTRAN code into machine language. A really good FORTRAN compiler should have picked up this error the first time the program was ever run. When the FORTRAN compiler encountered something of this nature, it was supposed to stop compiling and print out the message, "SYNTAX ERROR" at line such and such of the program code. IBM was responsible for this error, the FORTRAN compiler was part of their software package.

Therefore my debug job, which took me two and a half weeks to solve could have been avoided but for two things, first a key punch error and then a deficiency in IBM's FORTRAN compiler software which should have but did not pick up this simple error. The program came into my hands with me not even considering the possibility of a keypunch error or a limitation in the effectiveness of the FORTRAN compiler software. That cost me 2 1/2 weeks of frustration. I added this new knowledge into my debugger's hat bag of tricks and I told all the programmers in my unit at Mac Donald Douglas what had happened. We never did report this to IBM but we all had a good laugh about it.

Sometimes a problem source is sitting there right in front of you and you can't even see it. You can waste weeks of intense effort when simply looking more closely at your problem wouold have enabled an instantaneous solution!!! There has got to be some sort of moral principle here which we all need to earn. Thanks to Thetan Exterior for his story and for reminding me of my story. Both stories showcase short but potentially powerful ways of quickly solving simple but tricky problems at waypoints along the path of life!
Lakey
 
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MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Great story! What a reputation you must have had at your company!! I thought that I had seen it all but never experienced anything like that. One thing that could have been done without bringing in an engineer to check out the computer would have been to simply run your program on another Univac 9480 computer, if they had more than one in your company. Had that been possible, your program would have run fine on any other Univac 9480 and immediately everyone would have known your machine was defective. Of course having more than one of those big main frame computers was rare. A small to medium size company likely would have had only one such machine. Only a huge operation such as NASA or maybe Lockheed or North American Aviation would have had more than one machine in house.

THE TOUGHEST DEBUG WHICH I EVER RAN INTO
At MacDonald Douglas, some new programmer had created a program. The company was using the IBM 7094 computer, one of the most powerful computers of it's day. The memory capacity was only 64,000 bytes, which is tiny when compared to the memory of even a small home computer today. A certain portion of the 64K memory was used for the computer system and software and the remainder was used for the program to be run and for data storage.

Every time this person ran his program, the computer would go wild and start storing data in the portion of the computer system which was reserved for the software. The computer run would blow up as a result because part of operating system was being over written. This programmer came to see me to get me to help him in debugging his program. By then, I thought I knew all the tricks of the debugging trade and told him that I would solve his problem in a day or two. I looked at his code and it wasn't done very efficiently but it should have worked but it didn't. I looked over every step of the program and nothing seemed to be wrong.

His program had what was called a "Do Loop". A programmer could write something like, DO 100, I EQUALS 1, 500, then the next command might be, GO TO 200. This command would tell the computer to do a mathematical operation 500 times, starting at location #100 and then branch to location #200 to continue with the next step. This program would get into the Do Loop and then blow up. it would never get to the next step at location 200. No matter what input data I tried, I could never get beyond that Do Loop. I went in and instead of ordering the computer to do the loop, 500 times, I tried 100 times, then I tried 10 times and them I tried 2 times and finally a tried just one time and the computer still blew up.

I suspected computer mal function similar similar to Thetan Exterior's situation. I had been debugging this program for nearly 2 weeks now and I could not debug it. I was down to my last resource and if this resource failed, I was ready to admit defeat and/or tell them that there was an error in the computer hardware, just like Thetan Exterior did.

My last trick was to order print outs, called "dumps" where we could have the computer print out the contents of various key registers inside the software portion of the memory. If there was a hardware failure, at least we would find out the exact point where it occurred.

I readied my run and decided to do what was called a P-DUMP every five commands and see at what point the computer program was blowing up. The computer blew up within the first commands, then I did my P-DUMP every 2 commands, it still blew up and then I printed out the P DUMP after every command and found that itl blew up at the first command of the "Do Loop".

I now had to look at the first command to see if there was anything wrong with it. If there was nothing wrong, then I was done, whatever the problem was, it had to be a hardware problem, or so I thought, in the computer hardware just like in Thetan Exterior's case.

The exact command where the computer program blew up was the at the "Do Loop", Do 100, I EQUALS 1, 500. This command looked okay, it ordered the computer to do a simple arithmetic operation 500 times, each time increasing the parameter "I" by a factor of "1" unil "I"reached 500 and then the computer program would just continue on its merry way. There just seemed to be nothing wrong. I decided to get out a magnifying glass and look at the command itself. What could be wrong here, why was something going wrong when the computer attempted to execute this simple "Do Loop"? I was just stumped, I was looking at the program with my magnifying class thinking that it just could not be a hardware problem, something had to be wrong with this "Do Loop". I refused to give up. Suddenly I saw an error, I'll never forget the feeling. In another instant I knew that the program was now debugged. I felt like Archimedes in the bath tub when he figured out the law of hydrolics or whatever it's called. I started running around the cubicle where I worked, saying to myself, "I found it, I found it!" Why didn't I think of this before? why didn't I see it on the first day?

What was the problem? The computer printer had two characters which looked almost exactly the same, the letter, capital "O", and the number zero, "0". The computer hardware did not make the number 0 narrower as my current text is showing. Instead, the convention in computing was to put a very light slash through a zero and the "0" with the slash, "/" through it was to be the letter, capital zero.

When this program originally got typed up, whoever did the keypunching miss typed a capital "O" and put the number "0" in for the letter "O", thus in the command DO such and such, it actually stated D0 such and such. The FORTRAN compiler should have flagged this when it converted the FORTRAN code into machine language. A really good FORTRAN compiler should have picked up this error the first time the program was ever run. When the FORTRAN compiler encountered something of this nature, it was supposed to stop compiling and print out the message, "SYNTAX ERROR" at line such and such of the program code. IBM was responsible for this error, the FORTRAN compiler was part of their software package.

Therefore my debug job, which took me two and a half weeks to solve could have been avoided but for two things, first a key punch error and then a deficiency in IBM's FORTRAN compiler software which should have but did not pick up this simple error. The program came into my hands with me not even considering the possibility of a keypunch error or a limitation in the effectiveness of the FORTRAN compiler software. That cost me 2 1/2 weeks of frustration. I added this new knowledge into my debugger's hat bag of tricks and I told all the programmers in my unit at Mac Donald Douglas what had happened. We never did report this to IBM but we all had a good laugh about it.

Sometimes a problem source is sitting there right in front of you and you can't even see it. You can waste weeks of intense effort when simply looking more closely at your problem wouold have enabled an instantaneous solution!!! There has got to be some sort of moral principle here which we all need to earn. Thanks to Thetan Exterior for his story and for reminding me of my story. Both stories showcase short but potentially powerful ways of quickly solving simple but tricky problems at waypoints along the path of life!
Lakey

LOL, debugging! That reminds me of my 1st internship. After 18 months of school, we had to do a 6-month internship, before our final exam. I chose a small, near-by software house.´we had only a few customers, but some of 'em were BIG ones, known all over the world.

Anyway, one day, we received a call from one of our biggest customers: "THE SOFTWARE YOU'VE SOLD US DOESN'T CALCULATE CORRECTLY!"

The error was reproduceable, so my boss told me: "With you education, you should be state-of-the-art, so just go find and fix the error."

My problem: I had been sick for several months in school, so I had missed all BASIC lessons. But, since I've had a great COBOL teacher, I could easily adapt.

So I checked every routine and sub-routine in that section of that program. :hmm: All routines, sub-routines and calculations therein and whatnot looked fine, so why the fuck does the computer give wrong results? So now I put a "Watch" on a small bunch of variables, and stepped through the program; step, by step, by step - keeping a keen eye on every suspect variable.

Then, I thought I had found the culprit and was asking myself: "Where does this strange content come from?" Before I could find an answer to that question, my boss right behind me breathing down my neck: "What the fuck are you doing there?"

"Well... I checked all routines, sub-routines and whatnot and this variable seems to culprit. So now, I'm drilling this variable down to it's core to see where it's content comes from." He took over my keyboard, scrolled through a gazillion of lines of source code within a second, stopped and said: "Fine. Take a break."

I was still like "Huh???" :questions: when he was already on his phone: "Hi, gimme the leader on your development team."

5 seconds later: "Arnold here. You're the boss? So who the fucking fuck shat into your degraded brain and allowed you to allow an un-initialized variable in the "Final Release" code?"

Sorry, guys, I had to mellow down that dialog quite a significant bit, otherwise I could not have posted anything.

Anyway: He was an awesome boss, who could debug a program on his laptop and give it the final touch while driving his car @ 160 km/h on a busy German Autobahn. A bit demanding, but an awesome personality, once you've got to know him. I could tell a gazillion of anecdotes from that internship alone. :biggrin:
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
Ain't love GRAND !

There is only the present tense & and all else is past.

Right now is deliciousness squared !
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is something deeply satisfying about computer programming. Maybe not if it's your day-job, but as a passtime you can't beat it. There are no grey areas, either a program does what its supposed to do or it doesn't. There is some moral message in there somewhere but I'm not really sure what it is.

From learning about machine-code on the Zilog Z80A in my Sinclair Spectrum 48K to Perl and Python these days, programming has kept me off the streets and on the straight and narrow. But lately more and more mistakes seem to be creeping into my code and the stuff is taking me longer and longer to debug. I even made the '0/O' mistake Lakey wrote about fairly recently, and I was practically tearing my hair out trying to figure out what was wrong. Maybe it's time to call it a day.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is something deeply satisfying about computer programming. Maybe not if it's your day-job, but as a passtime you can't beat it. There are no grey areas, either a program does what its supposed to do or it doesn't. There is some moral message in there somewhere but I'm not really sure what it is.

From learning about machine-code on the Zilog Z80A in my Sinclair Spectrum 48K to Perl and Python these days, programming has kept me off the streets and on the straight and narrow. But lately more and more mistakes seem to be creeping into my code and the stuff is taking me longer and longer to debug. I even made the '0/O' mistake Lakey wrote about fairly recently, and I was practically tearing my hair out trying to figure out what was wrong. Maybe it's time to call it a day.

I LOVE programming in perl. Amazing to write a little 2-3 line script and see it do 200K or more tasks in less than a second! Exhilarating.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Just listening to muzak.
[video=youtube;zphAHMPtu4g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zphAHMPtu4g[/video]
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is something deeply satisfying about computer programming. Maybe not if it's your day-job, but as a passtime you can't beat it. There are no grey areas, either a program does what its supposed to do or it doesn't. There is some moral message in there somewhere but I'm not really sure what it is.

From learning about machine-code on the Zilog Z80A in my Sinclair Spectrum 48K to Perl and Python these days, programming has kept me off the streets and on the straight and narrow. But lately more and more mistakes seem to be creeping into my code and the stuff is taking me longer and longer to debug. I even made the '0/O' mistake Lakey wrote about fairly recently, and I was practically tearing my hair out trying to figure out what was wrong. Maybe it's time to call it a day.
(my bold)

The moral is simple: "It's OK to have doubts!" :biggrin:
 
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