The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Don Keeler and other things

FWIW:

Don and Barbara are the salt of the earth. They live in town. You (Lakey) should look him up (don't go packing heat), and get into communication.

You are right. He was wrong.

But his life has been way more positive and right than the pigeon holing that you have assigned him. He is a good guy (white hat).

On Bob Harvey being Will Rogers - I can certainly see the resemblance both physically and in his personality. Iris Reaves, a CCLA exec and a singer, claimed to be Ben Franklin and her face and body looked very much like a female version of Ben. Audry Many, Chris's first wife claimed, in the CCLA OODS (Orders of the Day, newsletter) that she was Harry Houdini. Here again, the faces looked quite similar. Audrey was ordered not to discuss her case publicly or to use the OODS for things of that nature. I think she was made to write a retraction.

Carmelo, I respect your judgement so much (I'm serious) that I will give Keeler the benefit of the doubt and exonerate him. However, what he did to me was unconcscionable and I will never forgive him unless he showed contrition to me and made up the damages which is hard to do 38 years later. I wanted to be a Dianetic auditor and I quit my aerospace job partly because I perceived the John Brodie story as an indicator that an auditor could make a good living. I passed the course, knew the materials perfectly and demonstrated competence auditing well over 100 well done hours on the interneship and 8 hours in the chair in one day. Many of my pc's wrote commendation's about me in their success stories. I was an ace auditor but I cared too much and sort of got personally invlolved with my pc's and took extraordinary procedures to try and help them as I did with Jon Jon Stone. To Keeler, this showed a "lack of certainty" in application of the tech. He considered this as additives. Why not cram me on eliminating additives, but instead, he took it upon himself to not graduate me and when I went to the MAA to discuss this, his next step was to initiate having me offloaded telling the Org Execs that I was unfit to be on staff. THIS IS AN ENORMOUS TRANSGRESSION ON HIS PART! IT WAS VERY PRESUMPTIOUS AND EGOTISTICAL FOR HIM TO WRECK MY AUDITING CAREER BECAUSE OF HIS OWN PERSONAL BIAS!! And why have me off loaded completely, Carmelo, that was evil and uncalled for. He overstepped his bounds as my C/S, again being presumptious and egotistical. Next, he graduated Ira Hirsch with honors after only acheiving 50 well done hours instead of the hundred called for by the check sheet. After graduation, Ira never audited another session at CCLA while I wanted to audit CCLA staff 40 hours a week in the chair and would have gladly done so upon graduation.

One of my old FSM's, the Israeli chick, Ronit Soracco or something (I'm not sure of her last name) called me earlier this year. I almost never pick up without screening the calls first but I had been expecting someone to call at that time and picked up and it was Ronit. She had not seen me in 7 or 8 years and "wanted to take me to lunch" which is a code name for wanting to reg me. The last three times we were supposed to meet for lunch at the OC Org, in 2001 or early 2002, she stood me up all three times and never called to let me know she was not coming. She is OT 8 now. I stopped her cold in her tracks and told her that she was in a lower condition with me and would have to do an ammends before I would talk to her. I told her that she had disgraced and committed overts on the Level of OT7 which she was on at that time and further committed overts on OT8 by not instigating a phone call to me after achieving this level to apologize to me. She said she was so spaced out and OT now, that she often forgets that she has made dates and often forgets to show up. I told her that justification was invalid and that it was just out TR's on her part. She asked what type of ammends I wanted and I said to come over here and wash my car, my wife's car, and my Son's car. She refused to to so and I told her that she was a disgrace to the state of OT 8 and hung up on her. After someone fucks around with me, my policy is to put ethics in on them. I want an apology, an O/W write up and an ammends project. The higher up the person is in Scientology, the more forcefully I insist on this and this goes all the way up to LRH himself. Of course, no one has taken me up on this and Ronit and another OT8 named Suzanne Sudalnik are the only two whom I have asked to do such an ammends so I am 0 for 2, applying this policy.

To be friends with me, Keeler would have to apologize, submit his O/W write up to me and do a major ammends project. Only then would I befriend him. For now, based on your say so, I will stop refering to him as an SP and that is only because I have found you to be right about everything else and so I am accepting that you are correct about him being a good guy. By the way, can you tell us what Keeler did to get himself declared suppressive by C of S?

In summary, Keeler appears to lack humbleness and to not be a good judge of people. He made a small mistake about graduating Ira with honors after only 50 hours, a much bigger mistake preventing me from graduating and trying to offload me and a much, much, much, much bigger mistake by approving DM. The only thing I feel he got right was graduating Kenny Lipton with honors after Ira. So he is 1 out of 4 with one of his mistakes having enormous repercussions. I realize it is not fair to blame Keeler for approving DM as no one could have predicted what DM would become so maybe I am getting a little carried away. Anyway, I won't knock Keeler any more from here on out.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Carmelo, I respect your judgement so much (I'm serious) that I will give Keeler the benefit of the doubt and exonerate him. However, what he did to me was unconcscionable and I will never forgive him unless he showed contrition to me and made up the damages which is hard to do 38 years later. I wanted to be a Dianetic auditor and I quit my aerospace job partly because I perceived the John Brodie story as an indicator that an auditor could make a good living. I passed the course, knew the materials perfectly and demonstrated competence auditing well over 100 well done hours on the interneship and 8 hours in the chair in one day. Many ofl my pc's wrote commendation's about me in their success stories. I was an ace auditor but I cared too much and sort of got personally invlolved with my pc's and took extraordinary procedures to try and help them as I did with Jon Jon Stone. To Keeler, this showed a "lack of certainty" in application of the tech. He considered this as additives. Why not cram me on eliminating additives, but instead, he took it upon himself to not graduate me and when I went to the MAA to discuss this, his next step was to initiate having me offloaded telling the Org Execs that I was unfit to be on staff. THIS IS AN ENORMOUS TRANSGRESSION ON HIS PART! IT WAS VERY PRESUMPTIOUS AND EGOTISTICAL FOR HIM TO WRECK MY AUDITING CAREER BECAUSE OF HIS OWN PERSONAL BIAS!! And why have me off loaded completely, Carmelo, that was evil and uncalled for. He overstepped his bounds as my C/S, again being presumptious and egotistical.

[...]

Lakey

You seem to be still upset. Thirty-eight years later, that's a lot of drain on your life-force.

Accolades and results notwithstanding, once you come to accept that you, like the rest of us, had no auditing career whatsoever in scientology, most of that charge will dissipate.

That won't end the game, however. You will likely discover a new layer of charge connected to your own naiveté and desire as a grownup to continue to believe in "Santa Claus."

LRH said that auditors survive better than others. I found this to be totally false. If an auditor is perceived to be a member of a brutal system of government/management, that auditor's competitive, survival advantage is marginally better than the next guy's.

Instead of trying to "make it go right," or be PO'd, both of which continue the action cycle indefinitely in the mind, I suggest you give thanks to your gods of choice, then move on.

Although, if you are mocking this up just to tell a good story, that's different.

 

[lkwdblds]

What, a disagreement with Ted, unheard of!

You seem to be still upset. Thirty-eight years later, that's a lot of drain on your life-force.

I just did an Idenics session with Mike Goldstein on Saturday covering LRH accusing me of embezzling funds at CCLA 36 years ago. I had run that incident many times without getting the root charge off in Scientology sessions, but it feels like Mike handled it in a 1 hour telephone session.

Accolades and results notwithstanding, once you come to accept that you, like the rest of us, had no auditing career whatsoever in scientology, most of that charge will dissipate.

Ted, this is the first instance where I really disagree with you and thats okay.

I could have had a career as a low paid auditor in the Org or as a high paid field autitor. I was 31 years old then and could have audited easily another 34 years. Its true that somewhere between GAT and the BASICS, I probably would have left or possibly I would have been declared and booted out before GAT. Even then, I could have continued auditing in the freezone. I offer you Trey Lotz as an example of someone who is a current Freezone field auditor who was already a well known Church field auditor back in 1973 and Ty Dillard who was a very young but excellent auditor who actually audited me on my Life Repair and Straightwire way back in 1971. He is still in the church and is a top FSM - I don't know if he still audits but I am sure Carmelo could tell us.

That won't end the game, however. You will likely discover a new layer of charge connected to your own naiveté and desire as a grownup to continue to believe in "Santa Claus."

Possibly so, Ted. I have an appointment this Saturday to receive another Idenics session from Mike G. I think you have just "C/Sed" for me what my subject will be. Hint, the guy's initials are D.K.

LRH said that auditors survive better than others. I found this to be totally false. If an auditor is perceived to be a member of a brutal system of government/management, that auditor's competitive, survival advantage is marginally better than the next guy's.

Instead of trying to "make it go right," or be PO'd, both of which continue the action cycle indefinitely in the mind, I suggest you give thanks to your gods of choice, then move on.

I agree and my decision as how to move on is to no longer bash Keeler or call him names but also to not be friendly with him unless he does an ammends with me. After that ammends, I would eagerly embrace him as a friend but why should he do it. I would do it, if someone on the board wrote that I had wronged them and wrote a convincing story to that effect. I would be over at his or her house immediately with my O/W write up and working on my ammends. As you say, I have a lot of naivete' and a belief in Santa Claus still within me. One of my favorite people in history is Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, he never lost his childlike character and it sparkles throughout his music. In a way, he remained childlike all his life and I look upon that as a virtue, to keep alive that innocence of childhood, the awe and wonder which is in us all during our youth.

Although, if you are mocking this up just to tell a good story, that's different.

Ted, you are one of the best posters on ESMB. I learned so much from reading your posts on education on that recent thread which I started about study and education in Scn. You were such an inspiration and so well informed in that field and all of your posts are just terrific!

In a way, its refreshing to find a topic which a person and one of his opinion leaders, which you are to me, disagree on. Its bound to happen sooner or later and this is such a case. No big deal, I read what you have to say carefully, and see if I can learn something from you on this topic. No matter what you say, I will respect it and give it weight. The same goes for Carmelo and her telling me that Keeler and his wife are terrific people. I believe it and respect it and will never bash him again. All that being said, I still feel an ammends would be necessary before actually becomming friends. I do not feel that my holding on to the ammends concept contradicts the viewpoints that you and Carmelo have posted here.

To be honest with you, I have mocked up some controversy on this thread to get more readers. I never would lie but mocking up outrage and exagerating are within my rule book. However, the Keeler thing is for real! I have a lot of charge on him and what he did as regards my career.

AN EXAMPLE OF WHY I DISAGREE WITH YOUR REMARKS ABOUT KEELER VIS A VIS DENYING ME A JOB WHICH I FELT I HAD EARNED.

Consider a Catholic Priest studying for a career as Bishop in a Catholic Seminary. I personally do not believe in most of Catholic Doctrine. I do not believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins and that he is the Son of God, nor do I believe in Heaven or that Catholicism is the only way to get there, I don't believe in the Virgin birth and on and on.

Nevertheless, I defend the right of the Priest wanting to study to become a Bishop and if some higher Bishop tried to stop that Priest from studying, and then tried to have him excommunicated, I would refer to that higher Bishop in deragotory terms and would never consider being his friend until he showed contrition, repented and said his "Hail Mary's" or whatever it is they do there to repent.

I personally do not believe that the Bishops have much valid tech but still, the billions who are Catholics do believe that they do and that is what counts. Because of the beliefs of the parishioners that they are being helped by their Church and that Bishops do wield great power, the attainment of being a Bishop is a valid career goal and can be very satisfying and help many people despite the fact that the basic tenets on which Catholicism is built on are mainly things which I do not agree are true. I rest my case.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

[...]
However, the Keeler thing is for real! I have a lot of charge on him and what he did as regards my career.

AN EXAMPLE OF WHY I DISAGREE WITH YOUR REMARKS ABOUT KEELER VIS A VIS DENYING ME A JOB WHICH I FELT I HAD EARNED.


Lakey

This thread, though interesting, has drifted far from days aboard the Apollo.

I'll just add this, and then we can develop a new thread on auditing as a career: Having been denied a JOB, yes, I understand the outrage. A lifelong CAREER, however, is much more than a JOB. I am saying that a CAREER in scientology, for the vast majority of us, was never meant to be.

To quote Nibs quoting LRH, "Nobody is going to make any money off this shit but me!"

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

To Whom It May Concern:


There is a Jimmy Buffett song, "The Christian," where one of the lines is "You've been acting like Jesus owes you a favor."

while there was a lot of job satisfaction, till one noticed his non scientology peers were doing a lot more alright than you, in the long run, staying connected to the Co$ is a 99% shot at low havingness and very boxed in doingness. As Brando said, in "On The Waterfront", "I could 'a' been a contender"

The three years of working as staff in a Scientology center - from gopher (go for) to top banana was worth the investment in time and energy. the time spent on the BC (about a year) was well worth it. Being a cog for any longer would have been a waste of time for me.

The people who stayed long (or are continuing to stay) are stupids. I'm sorry, I call it the way I see it. This is certainly not to say I've never been stupid. I have. I have some very good friends, who I feel OH SO GUILTY about, who I got in, who are still stuck.

Lakey, whatever you did with your father and his business, was more valuable to you, your family, and the nation at large than your being a slave in an org.

Had you the oversight (much like pan determinism), you could have audited others part time and worked full time, and not been engaged with the Co$. I took that course. I was able to teach my kids to read a book, pick fruit, ride a bike, ski a mountain, climb a rock, do English, algebra and trig, swim, scuba, earn a living, etc. I got to be a parent, not just a biological parent. I also got to change any number of people's lives with auditing. Unfortunately, because I was not a believer in the Co$, i was unable, in good conscience, to send anybody on to be fleeced by the aforementioned Co$.

This thread, though interesting, has drifted far from days aboard the Apollo.

I'll just add this, and then we can develop a new thread on auditing as a career: Having been denied a JOB, yes, I understand the outrage. A lifelong CAREER, however, is much more than a JOB. I am saying that a CAREER in scientology, for the vast majority of us, was never meant to be.

To quote Nibs quoting LRH, "Nobody is going to make any money off this shit but me!"

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Ted, you are one of the best posters on ESMB. I learned so much from reading your posts on education on that recent thread which I started about study and education in Scn. You were such an inspiration and so well informed in that field and all of your posts are just terrific!

In a way, its refreshing to find a topic which a person and one of his opinion leaders, which you are to me, disagree on. Its bound to happen sooner or later and this is such a case. No big deal, I read what you have to say carefully, and see if I can learn something from you on this topic. No matter what you say, I will respect it and give it weight. The same goes for Carmelo and her telling me that Keeler and his wife are terrific people. I believe it and respect it and will never bash him again. All that being said, I still feel an ammends would be necessary before actually becomming friends. I do not feel that my holding on to the ammends concept contradicts the viewpoints that you and Carmelo have posted here.

To be honest with you, I have mocked up some controversy on this thread to get more readers. I never would lie but mocking up outrage and exagerating are within my rule book. However, the Keeler thing is for real! I have a lot of charge on him and what he did as regards my career.

AN EXAMPLE OF WHY I DISAGREE WITH YOUR REMARKS ABOUT KEELER VIS A VIS DENYING ME A JOB WHICH I FELT I HAD EARNED.

Consider a Catholic Priest studying for a career as Bishop in a Catholic Seminary. I personally do not believe in most of Catholic Doctrine. I do not believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins and that he is the Son of God, nor do I believe in Heaven or that Catholicism is the only way to get there, I don't believe in the Virgin birth and on and on.

Nevertheless, I defend the right of the Priest wanting to study to become a Bishop and if some higher Bishop tried to stop that Priest from studying, and then tried to have him excommunicated, I would refer to that higher Bishop in deragotory terms and would never consider being his friend until he showed contrition, repented and said his "Hail Mary's" or whatever it is they do there to repent.

I personally do not believe that the Bishops have much valid tech but still, the billions who are Catholics do believe that they do and that is what counts. Because of the beliefs of the parishioners that they are being helped by their Church and that Bishops do wield great power, the attainment of being a Bishop is a valid career goal and can be very satisfying and help many people despite the fact that the basic tenets on which Catholicism is built on are mainly things which I do not agree are true. I rest my case.
Lakey

As JFK said, "Life isn't fair."

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

On Bob Harvey being Will Rogers - I can certainly see the resemblance both physically and in his personality. Iris Reaves, a CCLA exec and a singer, claimed to be Ben Franklin and her face and body looked very much like a female version of Ben. Audry Many, Chris's first wife claimed, in the CCLA OODS (Orders of the Day, newsletter) that she was Harry Houdini. Here again, the faces looked quite similar. Audrey was ordered not to discuss her case publicly or to use the OODS for things of that nature. I think she was made to write a retraction.

Carmelo, I respect your judgement so much (I'm serious) that I will give Keeler the benefit of the doubt and exonerate him. However, what he did to me was unconcscionable and I will never forgive him unless he showed contrition to me and made up the damages which is hard to do 38 years later. I wanted to be a Dianetic auditor and I quit my aerospace job partly because I perceived the John Brodie story as an indicator that an auditor could make a good living. I passed the course, knew the materials perfectly and demonstrated competence auditing well over 100 well done hours on the interneship and 8 hours in the chair in one day. Many of my pc's wrote commendation's about me in their success stories. I was an ace auditor but I cared too much and sort of got personally invlolved with my pc's and took extraordinary procedures to try and help them as I did with Jon Jon Stone. To Keeler, this showed a "lack of certainty" in application of the tech. He considered this as additives. Why not cram me on eliminating additives, but instead, he took it upon himself to not graduate me and when I went to the MAA to discuss this, his next step was to initiate having me offloaded telling the Org Execs that I was unfit to be on staff. THIS IS AN ENORMOUS TRANSGRESSION ON HIS PART! IT WAS VERY PRESUMPTIOUS AND EGOTISTICAL FOR HIM TO WRECK MY AUDITING CAREER BECAUSE OF HIS OWN PERSONAL BIAS!! And why have me off loaded completely, Carmelo, that was evil and uncalled for. He overstepped his bounds as my C/S, again being presumptious and egotistical. Next, he graduated Ira Hirsch with honors after only acheiving 50 well done hours instead of the hundred called for by the check sheet. After graduation, Ira never audited another session at CCLA while I wanted to audit CCLA staff 40 hours a week in the chair and would have gladly done so upon graduation.

One of my old FSM's, the Israeli chick, Ronit Soracco or something (I'm not sure of her last name) called me earlier this year. I almost never pick up without screening the calls first but I had been expecting someone to call at that time and picked up and it was Ronit. She had not seen me in 7 or 8 years and "wanted to take me to lunch" which is a code name for wanting to reg me. The last three times we were supposed to meet for lunch at the OC Org, in 2001 or early 2002, she stood me up all three times and never called to let me know she was not coming. She is OT 8 now. I stopped her cold in her tracks and told her that she was in a lower condition with me and would have to do an ammends before I would talk to her. I told her that she had disgraced and committed overts on the Level of OT7 which she was on at that time and further committed overts on OT8 by not instigating a phone call to me after achieving this level to apologize to me. She said she was so spaced out and OT now, that she often forgets that she has made dates and often forgets to show up. I told her that justification was invalid and that it was just out TR's on her part. She asked what type of ammends I wanted and I said to come over here and wash my car, my wife's car, and my Son's car. She refused to to so and I told her that she was a disgrace to the state of OT 8 and hung up on her. After someone fucks around with me, my policy is to put ethics in on them. I want an apology, an O/W write up and an ammends project. The higher up the person is in Scientology, the more forcefully I insist on this and this goes all the way up to LRH himself. Of course, no one has taken me up on this and Ronit and another OT8 named Suzanne Sudalnik are the only two whom I have asked to do such an ammends so I am 0 for 2, applying this policy.

To be friends with me, Keeler would have to apologize, submit his O/W write up to me and do a major ammends project. Only then would I befriend him. For now, based on your say so, I will stop refering to him as an SP and that is only because I have found you to be right about everything else and so I am accepting that you are correct about him being a good guy. By the way, can you tell us what Keeler did to get himself declared suppressive by C of S?

In summary, Keeler appears to lack humbleness and to not be a good judge of people. He made a small mistake about graduating Ira with honors after only 50 hours, a much bigger mistake preventing me from graduating and trying to offload me and a much, much, much, much bigger mistake by approving DM. The only thing I feel he got right was graduating Kenny Lipton with honors after Ira. So he is 1 out of 4 with one of his mistakes having enormous repercussions. I realize it is not fair to blame Keeler for approving DM as no one could have predicted what DM would become so maybe I am getting a little carried away. Anyway, I won't knock Keeler any more from here on out.
Lakey

LOL!

As Hannibal (George Peppard) in "The A Team" would say, "I love it when a plan comes together."

Don was kicked out because he was on the board of directors of Apple School in LA, and he opposed the takeover by the Co$.

Just so you know, Joe Wambaugh, the LA cop, who became a big time author was turned down dozens of times before he sold a book. There are terrific singers, who've never made the big time. Elsa Litchfield and Laurie Engelhart come to mind.

Tom Jones is nothing, but he had persistence. That is a quality that you were lacking. You lost sight of your dream. you have no one to blame, but yourself. Life continually serves up opposition. If there was no opposition, there would be no game. No game is more awful than anything imaginable (except a Bush 2 presidency third term)

Nobody ever just falls into the perfect job career. They work to make their dreams become realities.

Conquering your enemies or stops is a necessary part of living.

You've found some charge. If you think you're a good auditor, NOW, TODAY, is a good time to find someone to audit. I average about one session (given) a day. You could be doing the same. It would not impede your income, and you'd have a good time. The people you help won't get sucked into a cult.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

This thread, though interesting, has drifted far from days aboard the Apollo.

Ted,

Somebody is reading this shit!

There's been more than a hundred hits in the last 12 hours.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Enthetan]

LOL!

As Hannibal (George Peppard) in "The A Team" would say, "I love it when a plan comes together."

Don was kicked out because he was on the board of directors of Apple School in LA, and he opposed the takeover by the Co$.

Just so you know, Joe Wambaugh, the LA cop, who became a big time author was turned down dozens of times before he sold a book. There are terrific singers, who've never made the big time. Elsa Litchfield and Laurie Engelhart come to mind.

Tom Jones is nothing, but he had persistence. That is a quality that you were lacking. You lost sight of your dream. you have no one to blame, but yourself. Life continually serves up opposition. If there was no opposition, there would be no game. No game is more awful than anything imaginable (except a Bush 2 presidency third term)

Nobody ever just falls into the perfect job career. They work to make their dreams become realities.

Conquering your enemies or stops is a necessary part of living.

You've found some charge. If you think you're a good auditor, NOW, TODAY, is a good time to find someone to audit. I average about one session (given) a day. You could be doing the same. It would not impede your income, and you'd have a good time. The people you help won't get sucked into a cult.

Well said!

Or, put another way, if you got out alive and with enough of your lifetime left that you can prepare for retirement, get married, and leave behind a kid or two, you're better off than many who played that losing game.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Reasonableness and SP's

On Bob Harvey being Will Rogers - I can certainly see the resemblance both physically and in his personality. Iris Reaves, a CCLA exec and a singer, claimed to be Ben Franklin and her face and body looked very much like a female version of Ben. Audry Many, Chris's first wife claimed, in the CCLA OODS (Orders of the Day, newsletter) that she was Harry Houdini. Here again, the faces looked quite similar. Audrey was ordered not to discuss her case publicly or to use the OODS for things of that nature. I think she was made to write a retraction.

Carmelo, I respect your judgement so much (I'm serious) that I will give Keeler the benefit of the doubt and exonerate him. However, what he did to me was unconcscionable and I will never forgive him unless he showed contrition to me and made up the damages which is hard to do 38 years later. I wanted to be a Dianetic auditor and I quit my aerospace job partly because I perceived the John Brodie story as an indicator that an auditor could make a good living. I passed the course, knew the materials perfectly and demonstrated competence auditing well over 100 well done hours on the interneship and 8 hours in the chair in one day. Many of my pc's wrote commendation's about me in their success stories. I was an ace auditor but I cared too much and sort of got personally invlolved with my pc's and took extraordinary procedures to try and help them as I did with Jon Jon Stone. To Keeler, this showed a "lack of certainty" in application of the tech. He considered this as additives. Why not cram me on eliminating additives, but instead, he took it upon himself to not graduate me and when I went to the MAA to discuss this, his next step was to initiate having me offloaded telling the Org Execs that I was unfit to be on staff. THIS IS AN ENORMOUS TRANSGRESSION ON HIS PART! IT WAS VERY PRESUMPTIOUS AND EGOTISTICAL FOR HIM TO WRECK MY AUDITING CAREER BECAUSE OF HIS OWN PERSONAL BIAS!! And why have me off loaded completely, Carmelo, that was evil and uncalled for. He overstepped his bounds as my C/S, again being presumptious and egotistical. Next, he graduated Ira Hirsch with honors after only acheiving 50 well done hours instead of the hundred called for by the check sheet. After graduation, Ira never audited another session at CCLA while I wanted to audit CCLA staff 40 hours a week in the chair and would have gladly done so upon graduation.

One of my old FSM's, the Israeli chick, Ronit Soracco or something (I'm not sure of her last name) called me earlier this year. I almost never pick up without screening the calls first but I had been expecting someone to call at that time and picked up and it was Ronit. She had not seen me in 7 or 8 years and "wanted to take me to lunch" which is a code name for wanting to reg me. The last three times we were supposed to meet for lunch at the OC Org, in 2001 or early 2002, she stood me up all three times and never called to let me know she was not coming. She is OT 8 now. I stopped her cold in her tracks and told her that she was in a lower condition with me and would have to do an ammends before I would talk to her. I told her that she had disgraced and committed overts on the Level of OT7 which she was on at that time and further committed overts on OT8 by not instigating a phone call to me after achieving this level to apologize to me. She said she was so spaced out and OT now, that she often forgets that she has made dates and often forgets to show up. I told her that justification was invalid and that it was just out TR's on her part. She asked what type of ammends I wanted and I said to come over here and wash my car, my wife's car, and my Son's car. She refused to to so and I told her that she was a disgrace to the state of OT 8 and hung up on her. After someone fucks around with me, my policy is to put ethics in on them. I want an apology, an O/W write up and an ammends project. The higher up the person is in Scientology, the more forcefully I insist on this and this goes all the way up to LRH himself. Of course, no one has taken me up on this and Ronit and another OT8 named Suzanne Sudalnik are the only two whom I have asked to do such an ammends so I am 0 for 2, applying this policy.

To be friends with me, Keeler would have to apologize, submit his O/W write up to me and do a major ammends project. Only then would I befriend him. For now, based on your say so, I will stop refering to him as an SP and that is only because I have found you to be right about everything else and so I am accepting that you are correct about him being a good guy. By the way, can you tell us what Keeler did to get himself declared suppressive by C of S?

In summary, Keeler appears to lack humbleness and to not be a good judge of people. He made a small mistake about graduating Ira with honors after only 50 hours, a much bigger mistake preventing me from graduating and trying to offload me and a much, much, much, much bigger mistake by approving DM. The only thing I feel he got right was graduating Kenny Lipton with honors after Ira. So he is 1 out of 4 with one of his mistakes having enormous repercussions. I realize it is not fair to blame Keeler for approving DM as no one could have predicted what DM would become so maybe I am getting a little carried away. Anyway, I won't knock Keeler any more from here on out.
Lakey

Lakey, it is clear that Keeler was an SP from this story.

DON'T be Reasonable about it.

That exact thing coupled with not being able to see SP's in the first place

is what destroyed the CO$.

Keeler is still an SP now unless he ran out his Evil Purposes with Ex Dn.

SP's can have two distinct personalities which contridict each other, the SP

one being out-of-valence of course.

I'm dealing with one now (1st time I've been PTS Type 1 in decades) and

when he keys in he is psychotic, but normally a great guy with good products.

(PS = You didn't ack my PM regarding the 19th)

 

[Blue Spirit]

Good Suggestion

LOL!
You've found some charge. If you think you're a good auditor, NOW, TODAY, is a good time to find someone to audit. I average about one session (given) a day. You could be doing the same. It would not impede your income, and you'd have a good time. The people you help won't get sucked into a cult.

I've had the same thought for some time.

Also think how many have been duped by the excessive complication and

Suppressive arbitrary hoops placed into auditor's paths by the insane CO$.

Lakey, just get a brush up from someone in the Freezone and start.

True care for your PC's is THE essential ingredient and the rest is just

mechanics, which you probably have most of now.

Think of the thousands not doing anything with their training because the

CO$ has been purposely destructive to freeing people, and their tacit

reasonable agreement with it. LRH says Reasonableness is Suppressive.


Well done on NOT being Resonable on the Keeler thing.

 

[Ted]

Ted,

Somebody is reading this shit!

There's been more than a hundred hits in the last 12 hours.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Oh! I wasn't keeping stats. LOL

I just didn't want to get into "auditing as a career" this morning when I responded to Lakey.

Is it time?

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Oh! I wasn't keeping stats. LOL

I just didn't want to get into "auditing as a career" this morning when I responded to Lakey.

Is it time?

Is it time?

It's 5:00 somewhere

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Lakey, it is clear that Keeler was an SP from this story.

DON'T be Reasonable about it.

That exact thing coupled with not being able to see SP's in the first place

is what destroyed the CO$.

Keeler is still an SP now unless he ran out his Evil Purposes with Ex Dn.

SP's can have two distinct personalities which contridict each other, the SP

one being out-of-valence of course.

I'm dealing with one now (1st time I've been PTS Type 1 in decades) and

when he keys in he is psychotic, but normally a great guy with good products.

(PS = You didn't ack my PM regarding the 19th)

The natives are restless tonight.

Don't burn him at the stake until you've had the trumped up charges validated by your hand picked comm ev.

 

[lkwdblds]

Another disagreement with Ted.

This thread, though interesting, has drifted far from days aboard the Apollo.

Ted, I disagree about the thread drifting far from the days aboard the Apollo on this Don Keeler topic. I admit that it had drifted far from that when we started rating restaurants and discussing Jack Benny but I felt the Don Keeler stuff and my being denied the career of my choice were putting us right back on topic.

My story of the little guy fighting big evil corporate Scientology has run its course and has very little more to offer. There are dozens and dozens of very good to excellent stories of this nature out on the Web. I, with Carmelo's assistance, or equally valid, her with my assistance are trying to enlarge the scope of this website to be something more universal than my original story on the Apollo. I try to retain a thread of common ground with that original website whenever I can and the Keeler story seemed to me to be a return to the original concept of the thread.

I'll just add this, and then we can develop a new thread on auditing as a career: Having been denied a JOB, yes, I understand the outrage. A lifelong CAREER, however, is much more than a JOB. I am saying that a CAREER in scientology, for the vast majority of us, was never meant to be.

To quote Nibs quoting LRH, "Nobody is going to make any money off this shit but me!"

That is no longer true, it probably can be done and has been done through publishing books such as Bare Faced Messiah, etc. To develop a new thread on having been denied a job or a career would be interesting as well as a thread discussing the differences between a career and just a job.

Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

I think you are missing some data

LOL!

As Hannibal (George Peppard) in "The A Team" would say, "I love it when a plan comes together."

Don was kicked out because he was on the board of directors of Apple School in LA, and he opposed the takeover by the Co$.

That's good to know and admirable and raises him in my esteem

Just so you know, Joe Wambaugh, the LA cop, who became a big time author was turned down dozens of times before he sold a book. There are terrific singers, who've never made the big time. Elsa Litchfield and Laurie Engelhart come to mind.

Tom Jones is nothing, but he had persistence. That is a quality that you were lacking. You lost sight of your dream. you have no one to blame, but yourself. Life continually serves up opposition. If there was no opposition, there would be no game. No game is more awful than anything imaginable (except a Bush 2 presidency third term)

You are wrong on two counts in my opinion. Number #1, I think Tom Jones has a great voice and a lot of talent and #2 I did not lose sight of my dream.

I feel that I talk about myself too much and am trying to hold it down but now I have to do it to correct your false idea that I am a quitter. Below I will list the things I have done to press forward towards my dream of being an auditor.

#1 -In mid 1973 I gave Yvonne and Irene and ultimatum that in less I was returned from Treasury back to Tech, I was going to route out of the Sea Org, pay my debt and study the tech as public.

#2 - Late 1975, after paying off my Freeloader debts in full, I paid for the Briefing Course Weekends at ASHO Fdn starting Jan 1, 1976. After finishing the first part of the course, I was ordered onto a hard TR's Course at ASHO run by Mel Epstein and then told to complete my Dianetic Interneship which was incomplete due to Keeler. I was back on my Dianetic interneship and did a lot of auditing, attempting to finish it at ASHO when NED came out.

Prior to NED, Dianetics was one of the earliest things on the bridge but because people could go Clear on NED, it was made mandatory that everyone do their grades before receiving NED. Due to this change in the line up, it was very hard to find an eligible Dianetic PC around late 1976 and early 1977. I pressed on scouring around for pc's at all the pack Orgs and finally found one girl who I took all the way to Dianetic Clear and then I FINISHED THE NED INTERNESHIP IN 1977, equivalent to the HSDC Interneship which Keeler had kicked me out of.

#3. I then went back on the SHSBC full time weekends for several years. I finally got married and was raising a family and routed out of ASHO around 1983 after my Son's birth in November of 1982. I was getting auditing on NOTS and the L's at Flag and was busy with my Dad's business and stopped tech training for awhile and then we moved to Orange Country in 1986 and I got on lines at that Org. Initially, I did Management Courses there. My daughter was born in August, 1987 so at the age of 47, I had a 4 1/2 year old boy and a baby girl.

#4 Even so, I returned to tech training and did my academy levels at the Orange County Org and completed them and was a Class IV auditor plus interened NED. The OC Org wanted me to be an HGC auditor there but I first had to do the 0 to IV interneship. I started the interneship and then GAT came out and everybody was ordered to drop what they were doing and do a lot of courses such as the PTS / SP course GAT style. I did 4 or 5 courses there GAT style but the 0 - IV Interneship had not yet been released GAT style and I was told by the Org to wait for that to come out before I could do my Interneship and start auditing in their HGC. About this time, 2000 and 2001, I brought both my kids to the Org and they were both regged visciously by the Sea Org recruiters and I was fed up with that as well as a trip I made to Flag in 1999 in which I became disaffected. I do not know the exact date but when I drove my daughter home from a course where she had been pulled from course without my knowledge or permission and regged all day to join the Sea Org at the age of 13, I decided on my drive home that I would never come back and sometime in 2001 I quietly quit Scientology.



Nobody ever just falls into the perfect job career. They work to make their dreams become realities.

Conquering your enemies or stops is a necessary part of living.

You've found some charge. If you think you're a good auditor, NOW, TODAY, is a good time to find someone to audit. I average about one session (given) a day. You could be doing the same. It would not impede your income, and you'd have a good time. The people you help won't get sucked into a cult.

Carmelo, you are preaching to the choir. I did not want to relate this long somewhat boring story but to give me the proper advice or judge me properly, you have to know that I never gave up. I continued going through obstacles and barriers up until age 61, 9 years ago, at which time I grew to detest the Organization and lost interest in studying its subjects. If I still had the goal of being an auditor, I would go for it full bore but there are other things I am doing know. I reject totally the management of Cof S and only partially accept the validity of auditing. The subject itself is somewhat passe and no longer cutting edge and state of the art. Reading what LRH has to say is no longer exciting to me. Though still possessing occasional brilliance, his CD's and Writings to me no longer possess the magic they did in earlier times. The man has been exposed for what he is and is "damaged goods" to me. I cannot see studying in earnest that which such a flawed man has written. Even though some of the tech is valid and gets a good result, the man is so flawed and dishonest with his field that the excitement, reverence and awe in which I once held him is totally dead. No thanks, I have newer interests which to me are far more interesting than studying and applying LRH.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Blue, Navy Blue, I'm as blue as I can be.....

Lakey, it is clear that Keeler was an SP from this story.

DON'T be Reasonable about it.

That exact thing coupled with not being able to see SP's in the first place

is what destroyed the CO$.

Keeler is still an SP now unless he ran out his Evil Purposes with Ex Dn.

SP's can have two distinct personalities which contridict each other, the SP

one being out-of-valence of course.

I'm dealing with one now (1st time I've been PTS Type 1 in decades) and

when he keys in he is psychotic, but normally a great guy with good products.

(PS = You didn't ack my PM regarding the 19th)

Blue, I was just thinking of the song title above. Regarding the 19th, I am going and looking forward to seeing you there. You know, I have a special affinity for Carmelo and if she says that Keeler is a good guy, I trust she knows what she is talking about. I'll just give him the benefit of the doubt. I saw his good side a few times at CCLA and at Flag. One time, I had to go up to his office to give him his paycheck or something and he told me that I was the best Treasury person CCLA had ever had. Another time, at Flag in Clearwater, around 1981 I was there and he was getting NOTS and a group of people were on the grass towards the rear of the pool and I joined them Keeler was talking and said that his body felt much lighter after doing some NOTS and that he could jog better. The next morning I passed him on the causeway coming back from the beach while I was walking with a friend the other way going to Howard Johnson's for breakfast. He was in jogging shorts and was jogging very well and waved heartily to us and I commented, Wow, that NOTS is really working, your jogging looks effortless. He smiled and chuckled.

I trust that Diana Class 8 is helping you handle your PTS situation, right?
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Carmelo, you are preaching to the choir. I did not want to relate this long somewhat boring story but to give me the proper advice or judge me properly, you have to know that I never gave up. I continued going through obstacles and barriers up until age 61, 9 years ago, at which time I grew to detest the Organization and lost interest in studying its subjects. If I still had the goal of being an auditor, I would go for it full bore but there are other things I am doing know. I reject totally the management of Cof S and only partially accept the validity of auditing. The subject itself is somewhat passe and no longer cutting edge and state of the art. Reading what LRH has to say is no longer exciting to me. The still possessing accasional brilliance, his CD's and Writings to me no longer possess the magic they did in earlier times. The man has been exposed for what he is and is "damaged goods" to me. I cannot seeing studying in earnest what such a flawed man has written. Even though some of the tech is valid and gets a result, the man is so flawed and dishonest with his field that the excitement, reverence and awe in which I once held him i totally dead. No thanks, I have newer interests which to me are far more interesting than studying and applying LRH.
Lakey

Well the story that you put in the quotation above this comment was very illuminating and a fun read. Good stories have either plot, characterization, or both. Your story had both.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

#1 -In mid 1973 I gave Yvonne and Irene and ultimatum that in less I was returned from Treasury back to Tech, I was going to route out of the Sea Org, pay my debt and study the tech as public.

#2 - Late 1975, after paying off my Freeloader debts in full, I paid for the Briefing Course Weekends at ASHO Fdn starting Jan 1, 1976. After finishing the first part of the course, I was ordered onto a hard TR's Course at ASHO run by Mel Epstein and then told to complete my Dianetic Interneship which was incomplete due to Keeler. I was back on my Dianetic interneship and did a lot of auditing, attempting to finish it at ASHO when NED came out.

Prior to NED, Dianetics was one of the earliest things on the bridge but because people could go Clear on NED, it was made mandatory that everyone do their grades before receiving NED. Due to this change in the line up, it was very hard to find an eligible Dianetic PC around late 1976 and early 1977. I pressed on scouring around for pc's at all the pack Orgs and finally found one girl who I took all the way to Dianetic Clear and then I FINISHED THE NED INTERNESHIP IN 1977, equivalent to the HSDC Interneship which Keeler had kicked me out of.

#3. I then went back on the SHSBC full time weekends for several years. I finally got married and was raising a family and routed out of ASHO around 1983 after my Son's birth in November of 1982. I was getting auditing on NOTS and the L's at Flag and was busy with my Dad's business and stopped tech training for awhile and then we moved to Orange Country in 1986 and I got on lines at that Org. Initially, I did Management Courses there. My daughter was born in August, 1987 so at the age of 47, I had a 4 1/2 year old boy and a baby girl.

#4 Even so, I returned to tech training and did my academy levels at the Orange County Org and completed them and was a Class IV auditor plus interened NED. The OC Org wanted me to be an HGC auditor there but I first had to do the 0 to IV interneship. I started the interneship and then GAT came out and everybody was ordered to drop what they were doing and do a lot of courses such as the PTS / SP course GAT style. I did 4 or 5 courses there GAT style but the 0 - IV Interneship had not yet been released GAT style and I was told by the Org to wait for that to come out before I could do my Interneship and start auditing in their HGC. About this time, 2000 and 2001, I brought both my kids to the Org and they were both regged visciously by the Sea Org recruiters and I was fed up with that as well as a trip I made to Flag in 1999 in which I became disaffected. I do not know the exact date but when I drove my daughter home from a course where she had been pulled from course without my knowledge or permission and regged all day to join the Sea Org at the age of 13, I decided on my drive home that I would never come back and sometime in 2001 I quietly quit Scientology.

as per the study tech, you had too long a runway.

had you, for instance, simply gone to Alan Walter's ranch, you would have been auditing the first day of the first course that you took. There would not have been all those extraordinary stops and requirements.

The scientology I belonged to was "read it, do it"- that was it. nothing else.

you got an exceptional dose of black scientology. -designed to be studied, paid for, paid for again, and paid for, but not ever ever ever used. Did I mention Paid for?

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Just a nattery note about a CC alum:

Vanni Ribisi was promoting Avatar last night on Jimmy Fallon.

You can see it here:
http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/clips/giovanni-ribisi-talks-avatar-121409/1185272/

HIS TR0 SUCKED. I found it difficult to watch.

Plus his mustache needs to be shaved off.

the last time Vanni was on a late night interview he really stunk up the place. He had no stories prepared. He had thought the interviewer would lead him, and it was the sounds of silence. he has gotten better, but damn, somebody needs to coach him. Where are his adults?

PS:

James Cameron is not a person, who I particularly like (I don't), but he does good movies. We'll be in the theaters for this one.