The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

I like both your comments.

One minor point. Since your lecture Roger I've taken to viewing "2.0" as the new zero. Since the numbers Hubbard originally assigned appear to be something of an arbitrary and since with the number system the point of polarity reversal is zero, I just consider that it makes more sense to map the point of actual reversal to zero rather than simply rely on Hubbard's numbering convention.

I also liked your point on "knowing everthing being a 'no-game' condition is twaddle". Hubbard had some strong, personal, not necessarily 'healthy' considerations on the subject and nature of games. It seems clear to me he enjoyed conflict for the sake of conflict.


Mark A. Baker

THE ZERO POINT OF THE TONE SCALE COMMENT
Since Hubbard's number assignments seem to be arbitrarily assigned, assigning the point of polarity reversal zero seems to be a worthwhile minor improvement. Hubbard chose body death as zero instead. Many people have trouble using negative numbers out in society, they have trouble adding and subtracting negative numbers. As just a guess, I would venture that since Dianetics dealt only with living people and there was no scale below 0.0, body death, Hubbard was led to choose death as 0.0, so as to avoid the use of negative numbers.

When Scientology was brought out, negative tone levels were introduced, Hubbard could have made the change you are recommending and may have toyed with the idea and then decided it would be easier to keep the existing numbers the way they were. It is just an arbitrary decision, it could be done either way.

For comparison's sake, we have the Fahrenheit and Centigrade temperature scales. Centigrade makes so much more sense, using the freezing point of water as zero and the boiling point as 100 degrees. By comparison, the Fahrenheit system looks totally arbitrary. Of course there is a third scale, the Kelvin Scale where absolute zero is represented as zero. This scale is not readily suitable for practical use because day to day temperatures would be expressed in much higher numbers, more difficult for calculations.

THE NO GAME COMMENT
On the no game issue, I have an opinion just based on common sense. To me a no game situation is where one being controls both sides of a game. For instance if you play chess with yourself, there is no game because you always know what the other side is going to do next. Such a chess game should always end in a draw. A game could be devised where the one who goes first will win if no mistakes are made; though harder to do, a game could also be devised where the one who plays second would always win if no mistakes were made.

The proponents of the viewpoint that knowing all leads to a no game condition could certainly state that if one did not know what the other side was planing then he does not "know all" and that would be a strong argument on his behalf. Maybe the opposing side, in a situation of that kind could claim that the game, in a situation such as that, is to devise a way to know what the other side is thinking. I will just drop it right there.

CONFLICT FOR THE SAKE OF CONFLICT
Again, just an opinion, but I would agree with Mark that Hubbard enjoyed conflict for the sake of conflict. There was/still is a department on the Org Board called the Department of Personnel Enhancement headed by the Director of Personnel Enhancement. I believe it is in HCO Division I.

THE MAYTAG REPAIR MAN
The old TV commencials used to show this guy, Jesse White, I believe (am I correct, Carmelo?) dressed in an appliance repair mans' clothing and he had nothing to do because Maytag appliances never broke. It was a real cute and effective ad campaign.

In the Orgs when LRH was runing things, the Director of Personnel Enhancement was very similar to the Maytag repair man, he/she never had anything to do. In the DM run church, it seems to me as if the post must not be manned or staffed in any way except as being held from above by the Division Head. There is no emphasis at all in enhancing their staff in the Sea Org. The Department and its Departmental Head would be total anachronisms in the thinking of today's Orgs. I would be curious if anyone knew if there was still such a Department and if so, what the activities of the Departmental head would be. Though Hubbard put such a post onto the Org Board, it is now an anachronistic oxymoron. The words Personnel and Enhancement are totally mutually exclusive.

My point in this cute anecdote is that there is much more interest in promoting conflict just for the sake of it, than in enhancing the personnel. I believe that this Fundamental error in the Sea Org philosphy of management will contribute strongly in bringing down the current Organization.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

THE MAYTAG REPAIR MAN
The old TV commencials used to show this guy, Jesse White, I believe (am I correct, Carmelo?) dressed in an appliance repair mans' clothing and he had nothing to do because Maytag appliances never broke. It was a real cute and effective ad campaign.

Jesse White, give the Lakey man a Kewpie doll.

Fritz Maytag, BTW, a descendent of the original appliance namesake, owns Anchor Steam Beer in the City by the Golden Gate

 

[lkwdblds]

Interesting how so many things are connected

Jesse White, give the Lakey man a Kewpie doll.

Fritz Maytag, BTW, a descendent of the original appliance namesake, owns Anchor Steam Beer in the City by the Golden Gate

Fritz Maytag - That sounds like a good German name. Wasn't the ultra classy Duesenberg automobile company also founded by two brothers, one of whom was named Fritz?

What ever happened to Servel regrigerators? We had two of them when I was a kid. They were run by natural gas instead of electric motors. They used to get the top ratings in Consumer Reports magazines in the 50's. Then there was the Kelvinator line of appliances, bought out by Nash Motors to becom Nash-Kelvinator Corp., Nash evolved into American Motors who sold Kelvinator to some large corporation and I think that company may still be around.

Is your new Avatar still Ruthie Madoff? If so, that woman has a remarkably beautiful, expressive and versatel face, capable of many different expressions.

 

[RogerB]

Yes . . . .

One minor point. Since your lecture Roger I've taken to viewing "2.0" as the new zero. Since the numbers Hubbard originally assigned appear to be something of an arbitrary and since with the number system the point of polarity reversal is zero, I just consider that it makes more sense to map the point of actual reversal to zero rather than simply rely on Hubbard's numbering convention.

Yes, that's as valid a way of looking at it as any. The "Power Split" is the point of departure from one's positive relationship to the game. At a spiritual level, it's the point of reversal and inversion where the Being goes contrary to everything it held, pursued and/or believed in before. Switching oneself from presence to absence, from love to hate is pretty nuts, no? No wonder we, now in human condition, are a little occluded to this catastrophe

I also liked your point on "knowing everthing being a 'no-game' condition is twaddle". Hubbard had some strong, personal, not necessarily 'healthy' considerations on the subject and nature of games. It seems clear to me he enjoyed conflict for the sake of conflict.

Yes, he was certainly hung-up in conflict, fighting and the opposition to all and everything in sight. It's the hallmark of those who must dominate by way of subjugation of others . . . which was his manner, of course. While it is true he could be apparently charming, that is of course what con men and those who deceive must be . . . they must be charming and be believable. But the give-away is that they don't propose things for acceptance and understanding by others, what they say is only ever asserted as being the truth, and others are carefully made feel invalid for questioning the "wisdom" and validity of the assertions.

Rog

 

[lkwdblds]

A question for Roger.

Yes, that's as valid a way of looking at it as any. The "Power Split" is the point of departure from one's positive relationship to the game. At a spiritual level, it's the point of reversal and inversion where the Being goes contrary to everything it held, pursued and/or believed in before. Switching oneself from presence to absence, from love to hate is pretty nuts, no? No wonder we, now in human condition, are a little occluded to this catastrophe




Yes, he was certainly hung-up in conflict, fighting and the opposition to all and everything in sight. It's the hallmark of those who must dominate by way of subjugation of others . . . which was his manner, of course. While it is true he could be apparently charming, that is of course what con men and those who deceive must be . . . they must be charming and be believable. But the give-away is that they don't propose things for acceptance and understanding by others, what they say is only ever asserted as being the truth, and others are carefully made feel invalid for questioning the "wisdom" and validity of the assertions.

Rog

Roger, I got a lot out of reading your reply post to Mark, especially the second paragraph and I have put in bold type the phrases that I found extremely powerful. The data which you put forth in paragraph 2 is readily assimilable by any well informed layman. This material should be part of everyone's hat write up on how to live life. The people of Germany should have known this data and had they possessed these couple of lines, and if those lines were taught in their schools, WWII might have been averted.

QUESTIION CONCERNING MANKIND'S INVENTIONS AND WHAT THEY CALL "TECH".
The ingenuity shown by mankind in inventing what they call "tech", which mainly refers to electronic gizmo's which are designed to make life easier and more enjoyalbe, is quite remarkable. If you go back 25 years to 1985, some of of the things which people take for granted now were not even on the drawing boards yet. Something like GPS navigation in one's car seemed to me to be perhaps 50 to 75 years away and yet it arrived in less than 20 years. Some of these inventions are frivolous and actually may lower the quality of life rather than enhance it. These new electronic video games which are so lifelike in their graphics, etc., though ingenious, put our kids in front of cathode ray tubes hours upon hours inflowing radiation rather than being outside playing, climbing trees, etc. as was done when you and I were kids. Radio was a great invention, and before TV came out, radio developed one's imagination since the stories being told on the radio stimulated pictures in one's mind of the story that was being told. That is a real good process, hearing a story told on radio while looking at the scenario unfolding in imaginary pictures created in one's mind.

BIG INVENTIONS - The ability to enjoy music with nearly perfect reproduction in ones auto or by wearing one of these tiny POD devices is a major development to me. Music can raise one's tone level and can put a person into a more spiritual frame of mind and instead of assembling a large orchestra or band in the flesh, a tiny little object can be carried in one's shirt pocket and heard with a tiny headset. To me this a a miracle and really enhances mankind's life. The other big invention, perhaps the greatest thing ever invented, is the INTERNET. This device potentially serves to connect every person on Earth with every other person and connect us all to limitless sources of information and yes, even wisdom.

My question is this, from a technical point of view, spiritual technology and not electronic gizmos, do you feel that the Internet can better conditions spiritually here on Earth.? I can sit in a small room at home or even outside at tableside at some nice restaurant in Los Angeles and speak to someone live and with a live picture and talk for free to another person in Europe or Australia. It is really a miracle and something I thought might not be possible for another 100 years and it is here today.

I would like your technical opinion as to whether there is a chance that this invention can improve life here Earth. If you also have a personal opinion or common sense type opinion, I would like to hear it as well.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

BIG INVENTIONS - The ability to enjoy music with nearly perfect reproduction in ones auto or by wearing one of these tiny POD devices is a major development to me. Music can raise one's tone level and can put a person into a more spiritual frame of mind and instead of assembling a large orchestra or band in the flesh, a tiny little object can be carried in one's pocket and heard with a tiny headset. To me this a a miracle and really enhances mankind's life. The other big invention, perhaps the greatest thing ever invented, is the INTERNET. This device serves to connect every person on Earth with every other person and connect us all to limitless sources of information and yes, even wisdom.

My question is this, from a technical point of view, spiritual technology and not electronic gizmos, do you feel that the Internet can better conditions spiritually here on Earth.? I can sit in a small room at home or even outside at tableside at some nice restaurant in Los Angeles and speak to someone live and with a live picture and talk for free to another person in Europe or Australia. It is really a miracle and something I thought might not be possible for another 100 years and it is here today.

I would like your technical opinion as to whether there is a chance that this invention can improve life here Earth. If you also have a personal opinion or common sense type opinion, I would like to hear it as well.
Lakey

If you look at us, the world's people, you will find **HISTORICALLY SPEAKING** that any GOOD invention gets used for EVIL.

Whether we are talking about newspapers, cell phones, or the internet, they have all been used to trigger terrorist bombings and enemy attacks.

The computer that you are sitting in front of, some of its progenitors, helped (with the _personal_ help of Thomas J. Watson and his IBM company) round the Jews up in Nazi Germany.

Call me stupid, but I think there is a game afoot.

Since I realized the above, I've left behind he childish toys of erasing the bad. Now I go for ownership and understanding from a pan determined viewpoint.

Spiritual technology, in my opinion, needs to lead us out of win / lose games to win / win games.

 

[lkwdblds]

If you look at us, the world's people, you will find **HISTORICALLY SPEAKING** that any GOOD invention gets used for EVIL.

Virtually all good inventions can be used for evil purposes. It is the evil in the people who use these inventions which should take the blame, the invention itself should be judged on its own merits. Conversely, things which are designed to kill, such as guns can also be used to save lives. I would say that modern plumbing is a GOOD invention. I don't think anybody would disagree with that conclusion. Perhaps a crazed person drowned her child or some other person in a bath tub. So what! Do we play down the merits of modern plumbing because of that. I don't get the connection.

Whether we are talking about newspapers, cell phones, or the internet, they have all been used to trigger terrorist bombings and enemy attacks.

And the point behind this true statement is......?

The computer that you are sitting in front of, some of its progenitors, helped (with the _personal_ help of Thomas J. Watson and his IBM company) round the Jews up in Nazi Germany.

IBM did not get into computers until about 1953. Before then, they made business machines, mainly time clocks and typewriters. Whatever Watson did back in the 1930's was not really computer related. More accurately, IBM did not manufacture, sell and distribute digital computers widelly until 1953. Last sentence edited in January 20th.

Call me stupid, but I think there is a game afoot.

Since I realized the above, I've left behind he childish toys of erasing the bad. Now I go for ownership and understanding from a pan determined viewpoint.

Spiritual technology, in my opinion, needs to lead us out of win / lose games to win / win games.

I agree with your last two paragraphs, especially the statement about leaving behind the erasing of the bad and going for ownership and understanding from a pan determined viewpoint.

I do not think your post directly addressed my initial question which was, "Can the invention of the internet better conditions here on Earth." If you consider the ability to carry great music around with you in your shirt pocket, finding destinations with GPS to assist you with your work, and using the internet to spread the communication of spiritual technology to a potential audience of billions, instead of standing on a soapbox in a park and reaching only dozens then we just have a difference of opinion as to what are childish toys and what are worthwhile inventions. I believe these inventions are worthwhile but that is not even the point. I was putting the question up for discussion by aksing others their opinions. You are the first to check in and if I catch your drift, you do not think much of these "modern marvels".
Lakey
PS - In the 1960's, an instructor of a computing class which I was taking told an interesting story to the class about IBM. He said that around 1952 or 1953 IBM and Royal McBee, another big business machine manufacturer who made the "Royal" brand of typewriters, adding machines and other business machines, were both large, successful companies of approximately the same size, market share and profitability. Thomas Watson put pressure on his Board of Directors to make the shift from emphasizing office machines to emphasizing computers as their main product line and right from the start, their stats soared. Royal Mc Bee noticed this and their Board met and it was suggested that Royal do the same thing. The short sighted Royal Board of Directors decided that computers were just a passing fancy and vetoed the request and continued as the maker of only business machines. Within 5 to 10 years, IBM grew to enormous size and dominated the early computer industry with an 85% share of the market while Royal became smaller and smaller and the remnants of it were bought out by another company. I just Googled Royal McBee and they actually did make one computer model in 1956 called the LGP 30. It was an advanced computer for its day and had some success but there was no contuing R & D effort and within a few years the company was taken over and eventually disappeared. A new company has taken over the rights to the name.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

IBM did not get into computers until about 1953. Before then, they made business machines, mainly time clocks and typewriters. Whatever Watson did back in the 1930's was not really computer related.

I beg to differ:
google: "Thomas J. Watson" Nazis "IBM" Holocaust

or click on these:

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02/11/ibm_implicated_in_nazi_extermination/

http://www.acsa2000.net/ibm_and_hitler.htm

From wikipedia:


IBM and the Holocaust, by Edwin Black, is a book documenting the relationship between IBM and the Third Reich. Crown Publishing and a consortium of other leading publishers worldwide published it in 2001 in more than forty countries in fourteen languages.

The book details how IBM's New York headquarters and CEO Thomas J. Watson acted through its overseas subsidiaries to provide the Third Reich with punch card machines that could help the Nazis track down the European Jewry (especially in newly conquered territory). The book quotes extensively from numerous IBM and government memos and letters that describe how New York-based IBM, its Geneva office and its German subsidiary, Dehomag, were intimately involved in supporting Nazi oppression. The book also includes IBM's internal reports that admit that these machines made the Nazi efforts much more efficient.
Several documentaries and newspaper articles, including C-SPAN, The Times, the Village Voice, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, and the 2003 film The Corporation published close-ups of documents demonstrating IBM's involvement in the Holocaust. One example used was IBM code sheets for concentration camps taken from the files of the National Archives. IBM's Prisoner Code listed 8 for a Jew and Code 11 for a Gypsy. Camp Code 001 was Auschwitz, Code 002 was Buchenwald. Status Code 5 was executed by order, code 6 was gas chamber.
One extensively quoted IBM report written at the time by the company's European manager explained the purpose of IBM's relationship with the Nazis as helping Germany in “a campaign started for, what has been termed … ‘organization of the second front.’” The memo added, “In military literature and in newspapers, the importance and necessity of having in all phases of life, behind the front, an organization which would remain intact and would function with ‘Blitzkrieg’ efficiency … was brought out. What we had been preaching in vain for years all at once began to be realized.”
The book documents IBM's CEO Thomas J. Watson as being an unrepentant Nazi collaborator. Watson made numerous arguments to the international community that it should abolish the economic sanctions placed on Germany. As head of the International Chamber of Commerce, Watson once scheduled its annual meeting in Berlin, where he was witnessed giving a Nazi salute to Hitler in the infamous "Sieg Heil" fashion. Watson traveled to Germany numerous times after the Nazis took power in 1933, but it was on the Commerce trip that he received an honor medal from Hitler.
An IBM customer site, the Hollerith Abteilung, operated in almost every concentration camp. It either ran machines, sorted cards or prepared documents for IBM processing. IBM serviced the machines on site. In addition, the infamous Auschwitz arm tattoo began as an IBM number.
IBM actively worked with the Hitler regime from its inception in 1933 to its demise in 1945 using a variety of subsidiaries from those in Nazi-occupied countries such as France and Holland to those in neutral countries such as Switzerland and Sweden. After 1942, the German subsidiary came under temporary receivership, preserving all original IBM managers and safekeeping all profits for IBM in New York. Shortly after the war, the company worked aggressively to recover the safeguarded profits made from the many Hollerith departments in the concentration camps, the printing of millions of punchcards used to keep track of the prisoners, the custom-built punchcard systems, and its servicing of the extermination through its labor program. The company also paid its employees special bonuses based on high sales volume to the Nazis and collaborator regimes. As in many corporate cases, when the US entered the war, the Third Reich left in place the original IBM managers who continued their contacts via Geneva; thus, company activities continued without interruption.
The book also revealed IBM also tried to block, hinder, and confuse investigation on the company's role in WWII. When IBM realized the project already had extensive data to make its case, it attempted to whitewash its role issuing several public denials of its involvement.[1]
[edit]IBM's response

IBM has consistently refused calls by Jewish, Gypsy, survivor, and veterans groups to apologize for its involvement with the Nazi regime. IBM has never contradicted any of the evidence or facts in the books or the many documentaries, nor has it disputed Black's allegations.[2] Instead, it has claimed it has no real information on the period. IBM and the Holocaust has been featured in hundreds of news articles, magazine stories, TV shows and documentaries, virtually none with rebuttal from IBM.[3] The company has stated that Black's case "is long and heavily documented, and yet he does not demonstrate that I.B.M. [sic] bears some unique or decisive responsibility for the evil that was done."[3]. Additional information was published in the subsequent Edwin Black book Nazi Nexus.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I do not think your post directly addressed my initial question which was, "Can the invention of the internet better conditions here on Earth." If you consider the ability to carry great music around with you in your shirt pocket, finding destinations with GPS to assist you with your work, and using the internet to spread the communication of spiritual technology to a potential audience of billions, instead of standing on a soapbox in a park and reaching only dozens then we just have a difference of opinion as to what are childish toys and what are worthwhile inventions. I believe these inventions are worthwhile but that is not even the point. I was putting the question up for discussion by aksing others their opinions. You are the first to check in and if I catch your drift, you do not think much of these "modern marvels".
Lakey

I love all the new toys. Can the internet better things? no.

The games remain basically the same. Whether someone shoots you with a bow and arrow, a six shooter, a laser weapon, it is the same game.

Spiritual technology is what has to improve. Changing the mechanical features of the physical universe is just a different game board.

 

[lkwdblds]

What's the relevance of this to my question?

I beg to differ:
google: "Thomas J. Watson" Nazis "IBM" Holocaust

or click on these:

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02/11/ibm_implicated_in_nazi_extermination/

http://www.acsa2000.net/ibm_and_hitler.htm

Carmelo, even if these websites you mentioned were true and Watson was a Nazi sympathizer, what in the world would this have to do with the original question which I posed?

Also, their were no computers in existence during the 1930's. IBM made punched card readers and tabulators, perhaps the machines could process punched cards and tabulate the results of an election, etc. but it had no Cental Processing Unit and did not store and analyze information but merely tabulated and sorted at high speed using punched cards as input.

I just read the Wikepedia article on Watson and it says that he was given a medal by the 3rd Reich in 1937, well before the age of computers and he was criticized for accepting the medal and gave it back to Germany in 1940, saying he would not accept it. Hitler became so furious with Watson that he banned him from ever again being allowed on German soil. The German IBM subsidiary sided with Hitler against Watson and when Germany delared war on the U.S. A. on Dec 11th, 1941, the Nazi government took over the German IBM subsidiary and ran it for their purposes throughout WWII. Watson began to lose control of the German arm of IBM when he gave his medal back in 1940 and after 11 Dec 1941, Watson had no control whatever over IBM in Germany. The "final solution" to the Jewish question was not decided until January, 1942 at the famous meeting in Wannsee, presided over by Nazi Reinhard Heydrich. When this decision to kill the Jews systematically was made, Watson had absolutely no control over the operations of IBM's subsidiary in Germany.

Anyway, whether Watson was a Nazi sympathizer and used computers to aid Nazi's to kill Jews more efficiently or not, has no bearing at all on the question which I put forth to Roger and to the board in general. Even if there was a huge electronic computer industry in existence in 1937 in Nazi Germany and in the United States and even if Watson aided Nazis in Germany by using his computers in helping the Nazi's to track down and kill Jews in larger numbers and more efficiently, my question as to whether the Internet has any potential to better the condition of mankind on Earth would still be a valid question to ask and the answer to that question would not be effected n any way by what Watson did in the 1930's. Watson died in 1956, nearly 40 years before the internet came into its own.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

At last, you answered my question. Thank You!

Voila! You finally answered the question, it is a good answer, an interesting viewpoint. Thank you for your answer. I do not differ with you much, my only point of difference would be that Spiritual technology and advancements in mechanical technologies are not mutually exclusive. They can work together hand and hand, with spiritual technologies being the senior partner, but the mechanical technologies can facilitate the dissemenation and application of the the spiritual technologies while at the same time making the everyday aspect of living life more interesting and more pleasurable.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

from Wikipedia article on computers: (check the dates given)

In the late 1880s, Herman Hollerith invented the recording of data on a machine readable medium. Prior uses of machine readable media, above, had been for control, not data. "After some initial trials with paper tape, he settled on punched cards ..."[9] To process these punched cards he invented the tabulator, and the keypunch machines. These three inventions were the foundation of the modern information processing industry. Large-scale automated data processing of punched cards was performed for the 1890 United States Census by Hollerith's company, which later became the core of IBM. By the end of the 19th century a number of technologies that would later prove useful in the realization of practical computers had begun to appear: the punched card, Boolean algebra, the vacuum tube (thermionic valve) and the teleprinter.

During the first half of the 20th century, many scientific computing needs were met by increasingly sophisticated analog computers, which used a direct mechanical or electrical model of the problem as a basis for computation. However, these were not programmable and generally lacked the versatility and accuracy of modern digital computers.

Alan Turing is widely regarded to be the father of modern computer science. In 1936 Turing provided an influential formalisation of the concept of the algorithm and computation with the Turing machine. Of his role in the modern computer, Time magazine in naming Turing one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century, states: "The fact remains that everyone who taps at a keyboard, opening a spreadsheet or a word-processing program, is working on an incarnation of a Turing machine".


Essentially, I gave computers as an example that "helped" mankind. That absolutely did not help mankind also.

The internet, and any future innovations will have dark uses as well as good uses. Chose any thing, and so long as mankind's nature is remarkably good AND evil, The basic games of life will play out on different stages, but the games haven't changed in millions of years.

This leads to my point, that mankind needs to change - upgrade, so to speak.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Bernard Shaw said: “Those who cannot remember the past are
condemned to repeat it.” This is certainly the case regarding

On NPR today, there was a segment on China's aggressive attempts at stealing high tech missile, submarine, and war machine technology from the United States by internet assault.

The game remains the same. The board evolves.

see "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu.

as current today, as the day it was written.

 

[lkwdblds]

One machine does not an industry make.

from Wikipedia article on computers: (check the dates given)

In the late 1880s, Herman Hollerith invented the recording of data on a machine readable medium. Prior uses of machine readable media, above, had been for control, not data. "After some initial trials with paper tape, he settled on punched cards ..."[9] To process these punched cards he invented the tabulator, and the keypunch machines. These three inventions were the foundation of the modern information processing industry. Large-scale automated data processing of punched cards was performed for the 1890 United States Census by Hollerith's company, which later became the core of IBM. By the end of the 19th century a number of technologies that would later prove useful in the realization of practical computers had begun to appear: the punched card, Boolean algebra, the vacuum tube (thermionic valve) and the teleprinter.

Ben Franklin flew a kite in a lightning storm around 1770, some energy was stored in a rudimentary battery. Are you saing this constitutes an industry? Leonardo Da Vinci designed a human flying machine around 1500, are you dating 1500 as the beginning of the aviation industry. The abacus was a good first start towards an electronic adding machine. Maybe we could date the computer industry from the period when the abacus was invented.

During the first half of the 20th century, many scientific computing needs were met by increasingly sophisticated analog computers, which used a direct mechanical or electrical model of the problem as a basis for computation. However, these were not programmable and generally lacked the versatility and accuracy of modern digital computers.

I do not believe IBM ever built analog computers, they were pioneers in digital computers, the anticedents of what we run today. An analog computer is something like the speedometer needle on your car. It just points to an approximate answer. The old slide rules were analog computers of sorts I would venture to say.

Alan Turing is widely regarded to be the father of modern computer science. In 1936 Turing provided an influential formalisation of the concept of the algorithm and computation with the Turing machine. Of his role in the modern computer, Time magazine in naming Turing one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century, states: "The fact remains that everyone who taps at a keyboard, opening a spreadsheet or a word-processing program, is working on an incarnation of a Turing machine".

One man formulating the basic concept of a great breakthrough (or is it just an frivolous toy) in his laboratory does not an industry make. This brilliant man, formulating the basic fundamentals of computer science at this time is proof posiitve of my point that Thomas Watson was not using computers to track down and round up Jews. Turing was just starting in 1936 while Watson recieved his award from Hitler in 1937 before Turing's work led to the first actual digital computer.

From what I have seen on the history channel, the first Digital Computer started in England in 1942 as the "enigma" project and I remember that Blectchely Park is the place assoicated with this effort. An area the size of a house, housed the first main frame digital computer, filled with vacuum tubes using enough power to run a small city. That early computer was designed to crack Nazi and Japanese coded messages and it ultimately was successful and allies were able to decode enemy messages throughout the war. I imagine this enormous computer probably had much less memory and computing power than a simple personal computer sold in the US in the early 1980's. Edited in the next day, after Googling the topic, the first operational Computer was the German Z3 developed by Zuse in 1941. The computer I described as the "enigma' in England in 1942 was actually called the Collossus and first ran in 1943. The Enigma was a small electronics device developed, produced and used successfully only to crack codes and was not a full attempt at a complete Computer.

Essentially, I gave computers as an example that "helped" mankind. That absolutely did not help mankind also.

The internet, and any future innovations will have dark uses as well as good uses. Chose any thing, and so long as mankind's nature is remarkably good AND evil, The basic games of life will play out on different stages, but the games haven't changed in millions of years.

I appreciate what you are saying, I was just innocently asking if an invention of the magnitude of the computer might, just might improve the level at which mankind operates. What you say is true about the games not changing over the millenia so the odds that the internet will change mankind's games is probably a long shoot at best. Before the internet, I would say that the printing press was Man's most effective invention to better the human condition and I believe it did so to some extent by making knowledge more readily available. The internet is akin to the printing press multiplied by maybe 50 times, and it might do more good than the printing press but still not make a dent in the way mankind operates. If any inventions can make a difference, they would be things such as the printing press and the internet. Both can and have been used for evil but there is tremendous potential for good in both of them as well. I DO AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT IS A TREMENDOUS LONGSHOT THAT ANY INVENTION WILL CHANGE MANKINDS' GAMES AND THE COURSE MANKIND IS HEADED BUT OF ALL INVENTIONS TO DATE, THE INTERNET HAS THE BEST CHANCE, ALBEIT A VERY VERY SMALL CHANCE.


This leads to my point, that mankind needs to change - upgrade, so to speak.

I agree, absolutely, 100% with that. On that note, I am going to end this debate with you.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Irony of Ironies

the internet is the descendent of ARPANET created by the DoD (Department of Defense)

 

[lkwdblds]

Thank God they created it!

Irony of Ironies

the internet is the descendent of ARPANET created by the DoD (Department of Defense)

Thank God they created it! Here is a little summary of what this mechanical creation, this toy, has done for me in less than one year.

1. I debriefed by stories both at the Apollo and and CCLA, I got off all that stored up charge that was sitting there over the decades.
2. I entertained a lot of people who read it and helped them get charge off, especially those who had similar things happened and thought those things were unique to them.
3. I developed my abilities as a writer plus my critical thinking abilities.
4. I met, not in the flesh, but by correspondence, you, Carmelo Orchard5
5. I met in the flesh, Purple Haze, Blue Spirit and his wife, Sweetness and Light and the Many's and by Skype, another mechanical toy, I am able to talk to Heidrum Beer in Austria.
6. I learned about models of the Universe and origins of life plus Vedic religions particpating on Vinaire's thread.
7. I PERSONALLY TOOK IT UPON MYSELF TO WRITE THE TRUE STORY OF CELEBRITY CENTRE, TO VALIDATE YVONNE AND PURPLE HAZE FOR FOUNDING THE ORG, AND TO PLACE IT NUMBER ONE ON THE GOOGLE SEARCH ENGINE FOR CELEBRITY CENTRE HISTORY.!
8. I have learned about Alan Walters technologies and have corresponded with many of the finest who were ever involved in Scientology including Roger B.
9. I have corresponded with seveal extremely bright students of Scientology who have never been in the Organization but who are studying the phenomena scientifically. I have received continual compliments from several of them about my writings.
10. I have PMed with about 30 other key individuals on ESMB. I could keep going but don't want to sound any more egotistical then I must already seem.

If I had not stumbled onto ESMB last February, my life would lose all this newfound richness. I shudder just thinking about it. You know, Carmelo, from what you tell me, you have always been successful and have played up there in Density 4 of Heidrun's game. I have been playing in the middle of the pack in Density 3 and am just now moving up to Density 4. I think that is why the internet means more to me than it does to you. It is helping me aspire to what you already had so obviously I am more optimistic about what it can do for mankind than you would be. It makes sense that this is so.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Thank God they created it! Here is a little summary of what this mechanical creation, this toy, has done for me in less than one year.

1. I debriefed by stories both at the Apollo and and CCLA, I got off all that stored up charge that was sitting there over the decades.
2. I entertained a lot of people who read it and helped them get charge off, especially those who had similar things happened and thought those things were unique to them.
3. I developed my abilities as a writer plus my critical thinking abilities.
4. I met, not in the flesh, but by correspondence, you, Carmelo Orchard5
5. I met in the flesh, Purple Haze, Blue Spirit and his wife, Sweetness and Light and the Many's and by Skype, another mechanical toy, I am able to talk to Heidrum Beer in Austria.
6. I learned about models of the Universe and origins of life plus Vedic religions particpating on Vinaire's thread.
7. I PERSONALLY TOOK IT UPON MYSELF TO WRITE THE TRUE STORY OF CELEBRITY CENTRE, TO VALIDATE YVONNE AND PURPLE HAZE FOR FOUNDING THE ORG, AND TO PLACE IT NUMBER ONE ON THE GOOGLE SEARCH ENGINE FOR CELEBRITY CENTRE HISTORY.!
8. I have learned about Alan Walters technologies and have corresponded with many of the finest who were ever involved in Scientology including Roger B.
9. I have corresponded with seveal extremely bright students of Scientology who have never been in the Organization but who are studying the phenomena scientifically. I have received continual compliments from several of them about my writings.
10. I have PMed with about 30 other key individuals on ESMB. I could keep going but don't want to sound any more egotistical then I must already seem.

If I had not stumbled onto ESMB last February, my life would lose all this newfound richness. I shudder just thinking about it. You know, Carmelo, from what you tell me, you have always been successful and have played up there in Density 4 of Heidrun's game. I have been playing in the middle of the pack in Density 3 and am just now moving up to Density 4. I think that is why the internet means more to me than it does to you. It is helping me aspire to what you already had so obviously I am more optimistic about what it can do for mankind than you would be. It makes sense that this is so.
Lakey

I poo pooed Mel Brooks (the Two thousand Year Old Man) when he started drawing pictures of mammoths on cave walls. I said it would never replace howling at the moon.

 

[hbeer]

Perhaps you will enlighten us as to how the burning of widows on their husband's funeral pyre, the enforcement of the degrading caste system and laws on all society, the bathing in filthy river water for "spiritual" gain, the substitution of symbols for the real thing, the chanting of endless prayers which do nothing other than put one at effect in life, . . . etc etc etc etc . . . how all these things are NOT psychopathic, vindictive and at polar opposite to the teachings and desires of its original founders.

Indeed. I had not known that they are still burning widows? And I thought the caste system is forbidden by now, at least in theory?

For the filthy river water I have a story. Not only bathing in it, but drinking it! My daughter spends some time in India every year and once she came back being infected with Lamblia, an ugly parasite that they only found in a Tropical institute, as it doesn't exist in Austria.

She explained to me that if your faith is strong enough, you don't get sick. I concluded that since she got sick, her faith was too weak.

That these traditions come from a time where river water was still drinkable is one reason why I don't like them. They are not alive. They don't move with the time stream and its new realities.



.

 

[lkwdblds]

hi Heidrun

Heidrun - I just saw that you and I are the only ones on here right now. Sorry about the Skype not working yet, I'll Skype you from Alex's lap top tomorrow instead. Good reply to Leon's post. I didn't know enough really about all those negative points he was making about Eastern Religions. I am happy that you have more reality on that area and were able to give him a good response.

That debate with Carmelo and me was quite a long affair but ended on a good note. I actually ended up more uptone after the debate than before it started. I can see that neither Carmelo nor I intended any make wrong and I ended up agreeing with his final conclusions. During the debate, I was getting a little worked up but I spotted something and made a mid course correction and from that point on, I took a good tack, deciding that the debate would resolve with us both in high spirits. He must have picked up on that thought of mine and done something himself to ensure the outcome would be a wining one for both of us.
Talk to you tomorrow.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

That debate with Carmelo and me was quite a long affair but ended on a good note. I actually ended up more uptone after the debate than before it started. I can see that neither Carmelo nor I intended any make wrong and I ended up agreeing with his final conclusions. During the debate, I was getting a little worked up but I spotted something and made a mid course correction and from that point on, I took a good tack, deciding that the debate would resolve with us both in high spirits. He must have picked up on that thought of mine and done something himself to ensure the outcome would be a wining one for both of us.

I swiped this from a real estate text:

Defining “Negotiation”
Negotiation has as many definitions as the people who have tried to
define it. But the following definitions should give you an idea of what
people perceive “negotiation” to be:
X Arranging a joint opinion or agreement between two or more parties.
X Working out intelligent solutions to shared problems with parties who
have different interests.
X A process that allows parties, both wanting something (the same or
different), to avoid having to choose between getting what they
deserve, what they want, and what they need.
X The seeking of and the interchanging of information that allows
parties to come to a win-win solution.
X A process of exchanging information that allows parties with different
interests to work side-by-side and attack problems, not each other.
X A field of knowledge and behavior that focuses on gaining the favor
of individuals from whom things are desired.
Charlie Krackeler © 2006 156
X An interchange and exchange of different interests and value
systems.
X A practical and useful format for thinking and working with one or
more other parties to get what you want.
X Ideas being exchanged in an effort to influence another’s thought
and/or behavior.
X The conferring and/or interaction between two or more different
parties with a specific goal in mind.
X A learning process that allows parties to react to each other’s
concession patterns.
It’s important to remember that, for a negotiation to be effective, it
must be a positive, not a negative, experience. It needs to be a winwin
situation. From the definitions above, you have a general idea of
what negotiation is. The following is what negotiation is not:
X A popularity contest
X An endurance test
X A name-calling contest
X A monologue
X A blame session
X A debate
X A trial
X A screaming match
X A contest
X A verbal war