The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Thanks so much for all this great data....

Lakey,

Although I was mostly being facetious you did bring up some interesting points.

During your mad hatter days on the Apollo your refusal of a duty, especially an El Ron ordered one, would have done nothing to “help” him and only made things worse for you.

I knew Urq and his lamentations regarding “if I had only said this or that maybe I could have impinged on El Ron” are warming to the hearts of the faithful but bogus to those who have “been there, done that.” There is a litany of Apollo Crew that to a greater or lesser degree “stood up” to El Ron trying to help him—Otto (I knew him, too) is the poster child the “poster child” of that group.

The Senior SO management then—and certainly does today—thrived on finding a “Rubber Ducky” whenever it suited them. The CMO especially learned the “Rubber Ducky” tech from Hisself.

As for me, my “Rubber Ducky” came while my stats were in affluence and I had a handful of recent VWD’s and Very Highly Commended’s in my Ethics file from El Ron. It was during on of Hisself’s periods of “bad health” and El Ron was doing the OT thing of taking it out on everyone around him that was trying to help. I ignored the verbal order and let it slide and so did everyone else. El Ron The Infallible forgot Hisself ever said it and it never came up again. Within a month I had another VWD and VHC—go figure.

Some years after this I got shot up pretty good when I stood up—physically and very vocally—to DM and his CMO goons; Obviously, it didn’t help Da Monster--it was a "Rubber Ducky" op when my stats were in long term affluence (power) on a post Hisself had put me on.

Looking back I would not change anything I did; what I did was my path and I embrace my path then, now and future "nows".

Thanks for your post—I’ll keep coming back to the subject of this thread as that is what brought me here in the first place.

Face

Facey, Thank you so much for your response to my posts and the other posts about standing up to LRH. When I first got on ESMB, I still thought very highly of Hubbard and could not resolve the issue of how and why I, a potentially valueable asset (or so I thought), was just squandered and shown the door out of his elite organization. I was hoping that someone who was there and was near the top would step forward and clear the matter up for me. The only thing even remotely approaching what I was looking for came from Mike Goldstein, with whom I chatted by phone and received a few Idenics sessions from. Mike cleared up why LRH accused me of embezzling funds from CCLA Treasury. Mike told me that when LRH busted someone, he routinely fired at them with a shotgun, so to speak, in the form of a broad accusation or charge of commiting a very large Out Ethics action. Mike said that usually when charged with something big such as embezzling from CCLA, the busted staff member would deny that but offer up smaller out Ethics activities which they had been engaged in. Mike said that LRH would go fishing with the large made up accusation and usually would catch some fish with admissions of other smaller transgressions. Besides what Mike told me, which was extremely helpful, I got more help in this area by reading the Otto Roos story. Those two sources of info plus what Ken Urquhart wrote furthered my understanding and I thought I would get no more helpful info and then your post came as a bolt from the blue. What a revelation! Your post enabled more trapped charge to be released from my case, more revelation, more blowdowns!! I thank you so much for bringing back this topic and posting what you have. This is what I was going for, hoping that things of this nature would be cleared up not just for me but for others who felt LRH's wrath and just others who were studying Scientology and studying LRH!

Allowing the thread to run out with 2,500 views in March of 2009 or even 6,700 views in Late October of 2009 would very likely have resulted in not receiving this information from you plus other information of a freeing nature which I received from Leon and Roger. Now I understand better why it is best to carry on in many cases. Something in the back of one's mind just says keep on going, keep up the thread, maybe new answers will surface which help clear up the original questions posed by the thread.

In the meantime, in the altered thread which continued on with two hosts and a hostess, looking at many other topics besides the days on the Apollo, a lot of great posting and great connections between ESMB members has been made. The full story of CCLA's origin has been revealed. Great photography and anectdotes have been expressed, Alan Walter's tech has been revealed for the ESMB public to learn about, etc. etc.

We didn't just sit here making two line posts and off color degraded jokes but rather we put some extremely high quality posting up for ESMB members and others interested in Scientology from an academic point of view to read. Thanks again Facey, please keep up your postings.
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I was "raised by the book"

I knew a narcissistic young fella years ago. He would give his parents lots of flack and verbal abuse. I was taken back when I first witnessed it; I thought it would get physical. If I had spoken to my parents like he spoke to his I would have been slapped right down, johnny-on-the-spot, instant exteriorization.

Last I heard about this guy he was said to be still an abusive ass, and that was many years later.

As for me, well I am a pretty decent fellow because I did get the tar switched out of me at an early age. Just a couple of times for being anti social is all it took. Ah, the good old days before Dr. Spock.

My momma used Spock’s book quite often in my upbringing…she used it as a paddle when she was whippin’ the “starch” out of me.

I’ve got no problem re: “Corporal” discipline in child rearing…as long as it's a “tool” and not the “rule”.:wink2:

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Oh, by the way....

I do have much respect for Urq...not many folks with his calibre of humanity survived so "up close and personal" with El Ron as long as he did.

Face

 

[lkwdblds]

Another comment on Facey's major reply post.

This post has to do with saying no to LRH when you are under his command. First, a little background. When I first returned to Los Angeles after leaving the Apollo, I immediately looked up my old junior, Adelle Vonney. It was in mid December of 1973 and I had just got back from the ship. Adelle was then 67 years old, I was 33. She was Mary Marin's Mother and Mary go her into C of S. She lived outside the Org premises and I had her phone number.

The first thing she did after hearing my story was to scold me for accepting the two postings which I received directly from LRH, because neither post, Purchasing Officer nor Programs Chief had a Hat Write Up. I said, come on Adele, how could I, a brand new guy, turn down a post from LRH. He would have crucified me. She just kept on insisting that I brought all of my own disasters down upon me myself by accepting posts without Hat Write Ups. She insisted I was 100% responsible for my own condition. Both her and I still thought of LRH as some sort of a God at that time. Even so, I knew she was wrong and yet her position did have some merit. I know it had merit because of the following tidbit of information which I had but never told in my story.

When I was busted as Programs' Chief and sent to the EPF, another person was appointed to the Programs' Chief job. He lasted only two weeks and then was busted just like me. Next, another person took the post and held it less than a week and then they were busted and were comm eved. At the time, CCLA was ordered by the City of L.A. Building Department to either vacate the premises at 1809 W. 8th St. or bring it up to Code. They were frantically searching for a new place but there was a lot of red tape involved. As insane as it may seem, whoever took the Programs' Chief post was immediately held responsible for the debacle with CCLA's building.

Well, after I and two others were sacked from the post, yet another person was appointed to the post. This person arrived there, met Sandy Wilhere or probably already knew here and found out there was no Hat Write Up and refused to accept the Post!!!.

This person was not disciplined or sent to Ethics or mistreated in any way. They simply returned to the previous post which they were on. What did happen was that Hubbard must have finally figured there was something wrong in the Data Bureaux and ordered everyone in the Bureaux to the EPF. The group ended up being disbanded and then I believe it was formed again using a different model. Maybe it became a prerequistie to do the Data Evaluators' Course before you took the post and maybe Hat write ups for the posts were made mandatory. My point is that the person who refused the post due to no Hat Write Up was not attacked but allowed to turn down the post.

A FINAL COMMENT - If I would have turned down either of Hubbard's two job appointments upon first arriving there, the odds were probably about 50% that I would have been declared Suppressive and Off Loaded. I believe there was at least a 50% chance that I would have survived the ordeal and been posted somewhere else after a retrain and EPF cycle. The point is that whatever happened to me, I would have known that I kept my integrity intact and would not later come to rue accepting Hubbard's mis postings. If I had been kicked out of Scientology and declared, I don't know how I would have fared. Scientology was my entire life then. It was 2 years and 2 months since I quit my job at IBM and I was now out of date in the rapidly moving data processing business and I doubt that IBM would have hired me back after I quit them cold for no good reason only 2 years earlier. Undoubtably I would have gone into my Dad's business just as I did but if I was declared SP, I may have not been strong enough to survive. Almost all my friends were Scientologists and my only outside interests were following the L.A. Lakers and the Anaheim Angels plus my strong libido of the time. I probably did not have enough going on in life to make it back then if I had been declared. I most likely would have died an early death. If, on the other hand, I did live and finally found out what C of S was really all about, I would have been proud of how strong and ethical I was back in 1973!
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

My thoughts re: SO and Integrity

Lakey,

If you'd a turned down the El Ron postings you'd a been off-loaded on the spot. You were a recent SO member and new arrival on Flag. Not only did you not know the tune, you had never heard or held the instrument before. Without a "mitigating" resume, Flag Crew history or a well positioned Flag exec to go to bat for you not only had you no feathers in your cap, you had naught arrows, quiver nor bow. You'd a been gutted, pal.

The only time I experienced true personal integrity in the SO was the day I walked away…and it was not a feeling of, “pride, certainty, wholeness and the exhilaration of the true power I am.”

It was the dazed, exhausted, desperate, alone and empty feeling of, “WTF have I been doing, WTF have I been, WTF am I, WTF do I do now and WTF am I going?”

All feelings of “personal integrity” in the SO are, fundamentally, a continual mutual group and self enforced shared delusion of, “We are right for being here and they are wrong for being there and not being here and, therefore, I am right for being here whatever I see, hear or do, regardless of what is done to me.” And, if at anytime, you go "out reality" with that delusion then "your 'Ethics' are out"!

Face

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I knew a narcissistic young fella years ago. He would give his parents lots of flack and verbal abuse. I was taken back when I first witnessed it; I thought it would get physical. If I had spoken to my parents like he spoke to his I would have been slapped right down, johnny-on-the-spot, instant exteriorization.

Last I heard about this guy he was said to be still an abusive ass, and that was many years later.

As for me, well I am a pretty decent fellow because I did get the tar switched out of me at an early age. Just a couple of times for being anti social is all it took. Ah, the good old days before Dr. Spock.

Understandable. On the other hand ... .

I've known a young man who has been a "discipline problem" literally all of his life. He's an Asperger's kid. When young the fits he could throw were truly frightening. Despite this he's actually a very sweet & gentle kid with a lot of natural affinity for people.

Routinely, on those occasions when physical punishment has been attempted for a transgression the trauma has been far worse all the way around. What apparently works best with him is to give him a space to blow up in and then work with him rationally afterwards to locate the source of the upset and find an appropriate solution. He's actually very responsive to interpersonal communication when it can actually reach him. However he has some marked barriers to communication, most notably the emotional sensation of feelings of frustration. Such barriers can not be overcome by a simple application of force. To the contrary, they are greatly worsened.

It's one area where ARC can be especially useful.


Mark A. Baker

 

[lkwdblds]

More comments on Facey's posts!

Lakey,

If you'd a turned down the El Ron postings you'd a been off-loaded on the spot. You were a recent SO member and new arrival on Flag. Not only did you not know the tune, you had never heard or held the instrument before. Without a "mitigating" resume, Flag Crew history or a well positioned Flag exec to go to bat for you not only had you no feathers in your cap, you had naught arrows, quiver nor bow. You'd a been gutted, pal.

The only time I experienced true personal integrity in the SO was the day I walked away…and it was not a feeling of, “pride, wholeness and the exhilaration of the true power I am.”

It was the dazed, exhausted, desperate, alone and empty feeling of, “WTF have I been doing, WTF have I been, WTF am I, WTF do I do now and WTF am I going?”

All feelings of “personal integrity” in the SO are, fundamentally, a continual mutual group and self enforced shared delusion of, “We are right for being here and they are wrong for being there and not being here and, therefore, I am right for being here whatever I see, hear or do, regardless of what is done to me.” And, if at anytime, you go "out reality" with that delusion then "your 'Ethics' are out"!

Face

Facey, I love reading your posts and usually learn something from them. You were definitely much higher on the "food chain" than I was at the Apollo and much closer to LRH and the higher ups. However, I do have one small advantage over you (probably) in that I was a Programs CHief and my job was to read all the telexes that came in from all around the world which had anything to do with CCLA. I did this for 3 weeks straight reading these telexes for maybe 5 or 6 hours a day. Of course I read the whole goings on of my coming to the Apollo.

For some reason unknown to me, Flag wanted me to come very urgently and be in the LRH Household Unit as its Purchasing Officer, doing all the buying for the Hubbard family. Ever since the "toilet paper incident" Yvonne had stopped all my promotions but wanted me very badly for her own Treasury Division. Nothing changed when the Apollo came a calling for me. This was not a mass recruitment, I was the only CCLA staff member called to the Apollo for a period of several months. Ron Norton came after me, about two months later, just before I left, he arrived there and he came alone. The Apollo was not raiding CCLA taking its staff.

Yvonne fought tooth and nail to keep me from going. I read all about it in the telexes. First she told Flag that taking me would disestablish her Treasury Division, when that did not work, then she started saying that I was not ready, I could not follow Orders, I was not dedicated enough to make it on the Apollo, etc. That attack failed also. It took about 6 weeks of back and forth in fighting between her and Flag and finally they just told her: That's It!!! We want him on the next plane period!. Of course, all this was kept from me. When I was finally notified, I had one week to turn over my hats and then I was gone.

This was a very critical decision for my life. If Yvonne had been able to retain me, I believe I would still be there today along with Pam Lancaster and Cathy Garcia and I would probably still be in Treasury.

With all the in fighting going on between Yvonne and Flag, I did not go until 7 weeks after I was requested and they picked someone else to be Purchasing Officer for the LRH Household Unit. When someone else filled that post, they should have left me alone and allowed me to stay at CCLA. When I got to Flag, there was no need for my services but initially I had been picked specifically for a particular post.

As far as keeping one's integrity, I did it twice. One time was on the Apollo where Maria Starkey got in my face and told me I was going to retread all my Sea Org Basics. I got back in her face and told her I refused to do it. When she said I would do it or be off loaded, I volunteered to return to CCLA Treasury and when that was denied, I demanded to route out. My second instance of retaining my integrity was as a complete newbie at the L.A. Org versus the E.D. Bill Franks. He tried to jerk me around and I feigned having to use the restroom and instead walked over to CCLA where my Brother was already on staff and was able to achieve an instant transfer out of the L.A. Org onto CCLA lines where I got both training and processing within one day of Franks telling me I could not have it.

I showed personal integrity twice against viscious Sea Org Officers and as the Sinatra song goes, "I did it my way." Everytime I relive these moments I feel good about myself. I also did not roll over for Don Keeler, the Class VIII who stopped my auditing career. I reported him to the Master at Arms, and made a strong stand against him in my fitness board hearing. I lost the battle but went down fighting and in a sense I won, because though I was removed from Tech, I stayed on staff. The only one who I ever rolled over for was Hubbard himself. .

I really tried hard to keep my personal integrity while in the Sea Org, I won against Bill Franks, I won against Maria Starkey, I nearly tied with Don Keeler with an edge going to him and I folded up completely as far as contesting LRH. For a new inexperienced guy, I think it is a proud record. I've slept good these past 40 years having proved to myself that I have above average integrity and can maintain it even in difficult circumstances. Screw the Sea Org and their alleged third dynamic. If a being loses his or her personal integrity, they have lost everything. If they mess up on a decent third dynamic, they can recover. If they mess up in the Sea Org, it is not that big of a deal; letting down a decent rank and file comrade is not a good thing but the damage can be made up, if you lose your personal integrity, it is hard to earn it back.
Lakey

 

[cakemaker]

Something from the archives:

Apollo crew list November 1971

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3ICCAD3P

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Flag Bureaux

Lakey,

Thanks. I enjoy your posts, also.

I'm very familiar with the Flag Bureaux operations and your “Viper Pit” description is very apropos.

You’re lucky you never got to be HU Purchaser…it was well known on the Ship that an HU posting was going from the frying pan to the fire and HU Purchaser was in the white hot flame part.

Maria Starkey was a First Class Bitch IMO…although there are probably some folks that don’t remember me with fondness either.

I always got along good with Franks but I was never a public at an org he ran and was never his junior. I think Bill was a Scientologist 1st and an SO member 2nd. He could be a real sumbitch and very vicious, but he honestly thought that the Missions and their leadership was the blood in the veins of Scn and really felt they had the “pulse” of what was going wrong…and he got handed his head on a platter for it.

Face

 

[Blue Spirit]

Bill Franks

Lakey,

Thanks. I enjoy your posts, also.

I'm very familiar with the Flag Bureaux operations and your “Viper Pit” description is very apropos.

You’re lucky you never got to be HU Purchaser…it was well known on the Ship that an HU posting was going from the frying pan to the fire and HU Purchaser was in the white hot flame part.

Maria Starkey was a First Class Bitch IMO…although there are probably some folks that don’t remember me with fondness either.

I always got along good with Franks but I was never a public at an org he ran and was never his junior. I think Bill was a Scientologist 1st and an SO member 2nd. He could be a real sumbitch and very vicious, but he honestly thought that the Missions and their leadership was the blood in the veins of Scn and really felt they had the “pulse” of what was going wrong…and he got handed his head on a platter for it.

Face

Whatever Bill Franks was, he was an SP when he came to FCDC and destroyed the good effective and upstat time that had occured before that.
He arrived in 1974.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Power People

Something from the archives:

Apollo crew list November 1971

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3ICCAD3P

There are some real powerful people on that list !

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Bill Franks

Whatever Bill Franks was, he was an SP when he came to FCDC and destroyed the good effective and upstat time that had occured before that.
He arrived in 1974.

I have no doubt about that you may have had a bad experience re. Bill Franks, Blue Spirit. I got along with him...didn't always "like" him personally. I knew Franks before he was the ED LA Org...I was a little surprised that he was selected for the early FEBC & L's crops. But, in the end, he was the kind of Exec that El Ron really liked...like the Gleasons, Syberski's, Thacker's, etc. Franks got a lot of credit for building the huge Acadamy at LA Org when the much credit should have properly, IMO, gone to the Mission Holders and the Marty Samuels COSMOD empire in particular.

It's just my opinion but I think he had an "epiphany" at the early Mission Holders meetings and the SS Vunderkinds took him out for it. Bill was a Scientologist first and So Officer second, IMHO.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Trippin'

Something from the archives:

Apollo crew list November 1971

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3ICCAD3P

Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

Face

 

[Blue Spirit]

I Believe It

I have no doubt about that, Blue Spirit. I got along with him...didn't like him personally. I knew Franks before he was the ED LA Org...I was surprised that he was selected for the early FEBC & L's crops. But, in the end, he was the kind of Exec that El Ron really liked...like the Gleasons, Syberski's, Thacker's, etc.. Franks got a lot of undeserved credit for building the huge Acadamy at LA Org when the real credit should have gone to the Mission Holders and the Marty Samuels COSMOD empire in particular.

It's just my opinion but I think he had an "epiphany" of sorts at the early Mission Holders meetings and the SS Vunderkinds took him out.
Face

All that you say sounds believable to me.

I get sooooo curious who a few of the old-timers are on this board, you being one.

The person who got me going was on the crew list from Nov., 1971.

The wrecking of the Mission Network by LRH orders proves beyond a shadow
of a doubt that he was insane before that time.

I recall the Mutiny type meeting at the Westwood Mission in maybe the summer of 1982 when it was announced that DM had axed Bill Franks.
It caused a huge negative reaction in the large crowd. That was a full weekend event and had many excellent speakers. Jack Horton was one.

I wished I'd left right then. Bad, bad mistake that was.

 

[lkwdblds]

Tough but Compassionate - A Mark of a True Leader

Lakey,

Thanks. I enjoy your posts, also.

I'm very familiar with the Flag Bureaux operations and your “Viper Pit” description is very apropos.

You’re lucky you never got to be HU Purchaser…it was well known on the Ship that an HU posting was going from the frying pan to the fire and HU Purchaser was in the white hot flame part.

Maria Starkey was a First Class Bitch IMO…although there are probably some folks that don’t remember me with fondness either.

I always got along good with Franks but I was never a public at an org he ran and was never his junior. I think Bill was a Scientologist 1st and an SO member 2nd. He could be a real sumbitch and very vicious, but he honestly thought that the Missions and their leadership was the blood in the veins of Scn and really felt they had the “pulse” of what was going wrong…and he got handed his head on a platter for it.

Face

Facey, To Quote the famous song from the 1950's, "We belong to a MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCiETY, my Matey and me!" I love reading your posts and I'll bet I would have loved to serve under your command if you had been my Senior. TOUGH, yes by all means, but HUMAN and with COMPASSION for your fellow humans as well. I ran into a few such leaders in my action packed but short stint in the Sea Org of about 2 years and 2 months.

Some of the ones who fit that mold were Yvonne and Irene Howey Dirman at CCLA and Wayne Marple, Ken Urquhart, Stuart Moreau, maybe John Braggin and the very tall blond Jewish guy who was a Course Sup on Flag for the Data Evaluators' Course. I think his name was Dave Cohen (After the Apollo, he had a long career at AOLA). A person wants toughness in his leaders, but when the road gets muddy and the going gets tough, a certain type of leader will sit down with you and listen to you. You can sense that they have their full attention on you and they are there for you and really want to help and produce win - win situations. In fact as long as my leader or senior officer has that trait, I prefer he or she be tough and not too kind or overly friendly. Disciplined and controlled but with care and compassion, that is what a leader is all about. I would follow such a leader for a lifetime. Yvonne had those traits and that is why I stuck with her over the years despite the fact that she blocked me from being an executive at every opportunity she had. if I requested to talk with her one and one, she would always grant me that opportunity and turn her TR's upon me and the bottom line was that she cared about me and everyone else under her command and when she was listening to your problem or story, you knew she was really there for you and she had certainty that she would help you to solve your problem or situation.

Your are the second one to tell me I was lucky not to be the HU Purchaser. Apparently people on that post did not last too long. I can see that if the Purchaser got LRH the wrong product, a soap with a little scent in it, a piece of meat with too much or too little salt, or some Kool cigarettes with the wrong type of filter, that person would be shaken to their core by LRH screaming at them and probably having them busted on the spot.

I have nothing personally against Bill Franks. Its just that when I met him I was disappointed. I thought he had a poor communitcation cycle and weak TR's and I that he was pretty low on the tone scale. Mind you, I was only 4 months into Scientology and I just was not impressed with him at all. I did not fight him head to head or I would have lost big but I did an "end run" maneuver and ran around him over to CCLA and got Yvonne, who outranked him in every way, to instigate a transfer from his Org to her Org.

Lakey

 

[Enthetan]

Mike cleared up why LRH accused me of embezzling funds from CCLA Treasury. Mike told me that when LRH busted someone, he routinely fired at them with a shotgun, so to speak, in the form of a broad accusation or charge of commiting a very large Out Ethics action. Mike said that usually when charged with something big such as embezzling from CCLA, the busted staff member would deny that but offer up smaller out Ethics activities which they had been engaged in. Mike said that LRH would go fishing with the large made up accusation and usually would catch some fish with admissions of other smaller transgressions.

This is actually part of Sec Checking tech. It's called the "Murder Routine":

Murder Routine. A colloquial term among auditors for a simple way to trick the preclear into admitting overts (well-known counter-survival acts) and withholds (hidden counter-survival acts). The name comes from the classic example of asking the PC if they've murdered their wife, to which the PC may respond "oh no! I only cheated on her!" Although not officially issued as Standard Tech until 1974, Hubbard says he began using this trick in 1961 while auditing in South Africa.

 

[lkwdblds]

I found the guy I was looking for on that 1971 List.

Something from the archives:

Apollo crew list November 1971

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3ICCAD3P

A month or so ago I mentioned a guy about 12 or 13 years older than me named Bill who I met at the L.A. Org shortly after I joined Scientology. I think I asked Facey if he knew who this guy was. Bill and I began having coffee together every night on the Dianetics course at break time when the "Roach Coach" was there in the L.A. Org parking lot. Nobody on ESMB remembered who this guy Bill was but he left for Flag to be crew in the late Summer of 1970. We got some feedback that he was doing very well at Flag and I hoped to see him again when I got to the Apollo. When I got there, he had left about 2 months earlier but LRH mentioned him in the Orders of the Day and said they had to find a replacement for him. Hubbard admitted he had done a good job but insisted that he could be replaced with someone just as good.

Well, on the 1971 crew list, I found him right away. His name is Bill Eaton, he worked in Bureau VII under Mary Sue Hubbard and his post was CS 3 Communicator. He sent me one letter a month or two after he arrived at Flag and I never heard from him again. He was a tremendous person. I'm going to Google him and see if anything comes up. If he is still alive he would be 82 or 83 years old.
Lakey

 

[Enthetan]

I have no doubt about that, Blue Spirit. I got along with him...didn't like him personally. I knew Franks before he was the ED LA Org...I was surprised that he was selected for the early FEBC & L's crops. But, in the end, he was the kind of Exec that El Ron really liked...like the Gleasons, Syberski's, Thacker's, etc.. Franks got a lot of undeserved credit for building the huge Acadamy at LA Org when the real credit should have gone to the Mission Holders and the Marty Samuels COSMOD empire in particular.

It's just my opinion but I think he had an "epiphany" of sorts at the early Mission Holders meetings and the SS Vunderkinds took him out.

Face

I think Franks realized early on that the whole operation was a pyramid, with field auditors and missions being the foundation that allowed the orgs to be viable. He may have realized it in his LA Org days.

The reality is that production happened IN SPITE OF Sea Org management, rather than BECAUSE of it. To be viable, an organization needed to be able to retain most of its Gross Income, and spend it on the things that are actually needed to allow production to happen. I would see orgs piss away many thousands of dollars per week on bulk mail being sent out to bad addresses. Nobody would want to do an address correction mailing and get the addresses fixed, because that would make the Bulk Mail Out stat go down.

Meanwhile, at the other extreme, a Field Auditor (back before they shut down most field auditors) could make his own decisions and spent no time on the phone being berated about his stats by some clueless dweeb a thousand miles away.

 

[lkwdblds]

Thanks for the data, Enthetan!

This is actually part of Sec Checking tech. It's called the "Murder Routine":

Thanks for this invaluable data, Enthetan. LRH's use of this viscious piece of his "tech" on me caused two things to happen as far as I am concerned. First, I found out he was not a God and could be wrong about things, This aided me in quiting C of S as outpoints began to really stack up and be exposed to my view. Second, for whatever its worth. I don't cut LRH any slack or special status when judging him. For example, his not properly turning over his various hats to the most competent people before he dropped his body. For whatever reason, physical illnes, mental illness, PTSness, a messed up case, whatever, he was not a big enough thetan to make things go right at his life's end and make certain that his beloved church carried forward in a vibrant and expanding form under a top charismatic leader.

Remember that policy, "The Supreme Test of a Thetan". Did he make things go right or didn't he? In LRH case, at life's end, he did not make things go right. Follow his own policy and you must admit that he failed the supreme test. Those are the cold hard facts and that conclusion is the only conclusion it is possible to reach if one is truly objective.

The only thing is that ESMB has introduced the concept to me that maybe it is carrying forward just as he intended and DM was his successor of choice.
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I'm Curious, Too

All that you say sounds believable to me.

I get sooooo curious who a few of the old-timers are on this board, you being one.

The person who got me going was on the crew list from Nov., 1971.

The wrecking of the Mission Network by LRH orders proves beyond a shadow
of a doubt that he was insane before that time.

I recall the Mutiny type meeting at the Westwood Mission in maybe the summer of 1982 when it was announced that DM had axed Bill Franks.
It caused a huge negative reaction in the large crowd. That was a full weekend event and had many excellent speakers. Jack Horton was one.

I wished I'd left right then. Bad, bad mistake that was.

I wish I could “come out” but not just yet. I’ve already explained why.

I hate to do this to you pal, but, I actually was at FCDC briefly sometime in the early to late ‘70’s. Good folks…good field…liked the “feel” of the place. Please don’t speculate on open board, OK?

I really wish I could do PM’s but, for now, it’s just not a good idea for me IMO.

There’s some stuff in your post I’m gonna come back to in the next day or so, if that's OK with you? .