The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

You hit the nail on the head!

Your process seems to be a lot like mine, only much slower. But I go through all the same gyrations -- except on a short snippet like this. I just like to edit enough to be somewhat certain I have said what I wanted to say and curtail possibilities of misduplications on the other end.

As for the heart and soul thing, I did some chakra clearing a few years back, opened up the heart chakra. Since then my interests are 90% heart and soul, 10% analytical. It brought a nice balance to the overly-analytical, "treasured" aspects of dianetics and scientology that I had immersed self in some years ago.

If scientology suffers from anything it is lack of heart. The best auditors have it, but it is so hard to maintain in the suppressive, dog-eat-dog environment of ethics and admin tech.

Ted your second and third paragraphs really resonate with me! If one showed heart there while in the Sea Org, one wase pretty much disciplined quite heavily and passed up for promotions. That was probably the thing in me which Don Keeler saw which he did not like, to the degree that he refused to even graduate me from my internship and instead had me fitness boarded so as to kick me out of the Sea Org. When one man takes it upon himself to offload a guy with a good heart and high stats because that guy is too kind hearted, he is really placing himself on a pedestal and putting himself in a position to play God over that person's life. When I querried him as to why he refused to graduate me he said that I "lacked the certainty which is required to be an auditor." He said there were no other words he could use to describe it other than a lack of certainty. The better way to put it was that I was kind hearted and always took a personal interested in my pc's.

Some of the auditors at CCLA were also kind hearted and they were able to make careers there. Among them were Ty Dillard, Susan who gave me my Expanded Dianetics, Paulette Ausley and I heard that Candy Chaleff, who audited Celebrities was kind hearted as well though I never had her audit me.

The strange thing is that Class XII auditor Ron Shaffran, though extremely efficient and professional was a kind hearted person. He ordered Don Keeler to either join the Sea Org or route out. Perhaps my most gratifying day on staff was when I saw Don Keeler crying in HCO, literally sobbing with tears streaming down his face as he was on his routing form on his way out the door. I had earlier seen him bring Helen and Joe Hochman to tears, or at least Helen, and also Felice Lisa and though I didn't literally cry when he busted me, I know there were nights immediately afterwards when I could not get to sleep because of what had happened to me.

I was a tough little prick in those early days of my career. Though basically rank and file and extremely kind hearted, I had a show down with Bill Franks at the L.A. Org and was able to pull strings and go around him and transfer to CCLA and then Don Keeler tried like the devil to have me off loaded and yet I was able to devise a way to stay on staff and he was offloaded from CCLA while I ended up being promoted to Flag. The moral of the story was, "Don't mess with the Lakester!" Even though he is rank and file and not an opinion leader, when he gets backed into a corner and his survival is threatened, he bites and he can bite hard if he gets mad enough!
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

A Cognition for Non Ex Scientologists doing Research

Writing my last post answering Ted, I just had an epiphany, a cognition, or a new awareness or a new awakening - whatever term you want to use.

Hanging in there on staff and especially in the Sea Org, it seemed to give tremendous importance to someone's life. A staff member was tested to the full measure of his capabilities and well beyond that! It was a fight for one's Survival, almost on a day to day or week to week basis

Compared to a normal life, going to College, taking tests, doing homework, trying to score with the opposite sex and then getting a job and living a hum drum type life was very tame compared to being in the Sea Org. In the Sea Org, you were caged like an animal and proded with sticks and taser guns (figuratively). your beingness was routinely challenged, you were humbled, humiliated, walked over, made nothing of and yet with that as a background, you were part of a team of some very outstanding people. It was easy to have real fellowship with many fine people. Probably soldiers in combat experience something akin to what Sea Org Members do.

We believed in our mission and felt that Hubbard was by far the greatest man living on Earth

DEEP AND TO THE CORE OF ONE'S SOUL ISSUES
You were challenged and challenged very deeply to the very core of your reason for being. I reacted to it by fighting to defend myself against others I felt were lesser beings than me but who had power over me. When I was cornered and was figuratively in a cage being poked with sticks, I went into a fight mode. All my hormones were raging and I was a viscious opponent if the very essence of my worth or "raison de etre" was being tested. My senses and my mental powers were at extremely high alert levels. At both my fitness board at CC and my Comm Ev on the Apollo, I made statements that stopped my prosecutors cold in their tracks. They were left speechless both times.

The only time I was really hit so hard that I couldn't fight back was when LRH himself accussed me. I believed in LRH so much that when I got busted at the Apollo, I was sure he would find out and come to my defense. When instead, he accused me of embezzling money from CCLA treasury and insisted on this and said that my denials were lies, that pulled the rug out from under me and was the one time in my career there that I did not fight back. That event temporarily broke my will and shattered my self worth.

ALL OF THIS HARASSMENT MADE ONE'S LIFE SEEM HARSH BUT ALSO IMPORTANT AND INTERESTING!
Fighting for your existence in the Sea Org, though extremely ardous, gave one "havingness" to use a Hubbard term. One figured they were more important than the average guy who lived to drink beer and watch football on the weekend. One felt he was playing in this huge game where the stakes were eternity and super human powers for yourself and eternity and survival for everyone else on the planet.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD PREFER TO BE BEATEN AND HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR VERY EXISTENCE IN A GAME THEY PERCEIVE TO BE VERY BIG AND EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. RATHER THAN PLAYING IT SAFE AND LEADING A LIFE OF EASE.

I think we like to flex our muscles as spirits and use all of our wits and cunning in competition with those who would seek to dominate us and that is why so many of us toughed it out for such long periods of time in both Scientology in general and the Sea Organization in particular. There is nothing better to bring a spiritual being to life than having their mettle being challenged by other beings.

Why give up life's challenge for a six pack of beer and a chance to watch football or the Laker game on the weekend?
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Cool Feel Good Story

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/woman-builds-home-from-airplane-20349533#video=20374230

 

[Panda Termint]

This continues to be one of the best threads on ESMB, thank you all.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Writing my last post answering Ted, I just had an epiphany, a cognition, or a new awareness or a new awakening - whatever term you want to use.

Hanging in there on staff and especially in the Sea Org, it seemed to give tremendous importance to someone's life. A staff member was tested to the full measure of his capabilities and well beyond that! It was a fight for one's Survival, almost on a day to day or week to week basis

Compared to a normal life, going to College, taking tests, doing homework, trying to score with the opposite sex and then getting a job and living a hum drum type life was very tame compared to being in the Sea Org. In the Sea Org, you were caged like an animal and proded with sticks and taser guns (figuratively). your beingness was routinely challenged, you were humbled, humiliated, walked over, made nothing of and yet with that as a background, you were part of a team of some very outstanding people. It was easy to have real fellowship with many fine people. Probably soldiers in combat experience something akin to what Sea Org Members do.

We believed in our mission and felt that Hubbard was by far the greatest man living on Earth

DEEP AND TO THE CORE OF ONE'S SOUL ISSUES
You were challenged and challenged very deeply to the very core of your reason for being. I reacted to it by fighting to defend myself against others I felt were lesser beings than me but who had power over me. When I was cornered and was figuratively in a cage being poked with sticks, I went into a fight mode. All my hormones were raging and I was a viscious opponent if the very essence of my worth or "raison de etre" was being tested. My senses and my mental powers were at extremely high alert levels. At both my fitness board at CC and my Comm Ev on the Apollo, I made statements that stopped my prosecutors cold in their tracks. They were left speechless both times.

The only time I was really hit so hard that I couldn't fight back was when LRH himself accussed me. I believed in LRH so much that when I got busted at the Apollo, I was sure he would find out and come to my defense. When instead, he accused me of embezzling money from CCLA treasury and insisted on this and said that my denials were lies, that pulled the rug out from under me and was the one time in my career there that I did not fight back. That event temporarily broke my will and shattered my self worth.

ALL OF THIS HARASSMENT MADE ONE'S LIFE SEEM HARSH BUT ALSO IMPORTANT AND INTERESTING!
Fighting for your existence in the Sea Org, though extremely ardous, gave one "havingness" to use a Hubbard term. One figured they were more important than the average guy who lived to drink beer and watch football on the weekend. One felt he was playing in this huge game where the stakes were eternity and super human powers for yourself and eternity and survival for everyone else on the planet.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD PREFER TO BE BEATEN AND HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR VERY EXISTENCE IN A GAME THEY PERCEIVE TO BE VERY BIG AND EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. RATHER THAN PLAYING IT SAFE AND LEADING A LIFE OF EASE.

I think we like to flex our muscles as spirits and use all of our wits and cunning in competition with those who would seek to dominate us and that is why so many of us toughed it out for such long periods of time in both Scientology in general and the Sea Organization in particular. There is nothing better to bring a spiritual being to life than having their mettle being challenged by other beings.

Why give up life's challenge for a six pack of beer and a chance to watch football or the Laker game on the weekend?
Lakey

It is after 11 PM, I just returned from my daughter's house. She had just gotten home after a full day at her new job in the City (an hour north). I was there to exchange cars, because her car is having a power steering problem. She has to be at work tomorrow morning at 6:30 AM. She is working for a start up microfinance network. She's in charge of biz dev (business development). She started at this job, a week before she graduated grad school.

She started the job so she could qualify for the loan on the condo she's buying. It closes escrow in a week or two.

I'm auditing people in Europe by telephone from 10 PM to midnight, my time. Mornings for them.

I get up and do a full day of work starting around 7:30 every day. In daylight savings time, I work until dark. If not for someone else, for myself, in my own yard or house.

This is life in the fast lane. As a family, we like this.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

This continues to be one of the best threads on ESMB, thank you all.

music to my ears, thanks

 

[Leon]

A staff member was tested to the full measure of his capabilities and well beyond that! It was a fight for one's Survival, almost on a day to day or week to week basis

I was there on the Apollo from Feb to July 1971 doing the OEC/FEBC and then worked on a post for a while in External Comm. With my South African passport I wasn't allowed to go from the ship to the airport in Morocco so I was stuck onboard for about an extra two months.

When I got there the place was chaos, especially at mealtimes. We ate with the officers in the main dining hall. There were nowhere near enough plates or cutlery, food was served in dishes on a sideboard and you had to helpp yourself. You leterally had to push and shove to get anything at all, you'd take food in someone else's dirty coffee cup and eat it with your fingers if need be. Luckily I am 6 foot 2 and could just reach over the heads of many people and grab what I wanted. Others, often girls, were short and not as strong nor as pushy as I, so I would help where I could but often they just got to lick the empty bowl.

After about a week or so of this LRH got to hear about it and had a fit and things started improving. Later there were too many students to accomodate all in the dining room so they tried top turf us all out to the aft-lounge area to eat with the crew, Our table put up a fight and refused to go and so we were the only ones to stay in the dining room to the end.

But I saw the scrabbling for food and so on as being just part of the training you got. Toilet paper was also often not always available and you had to make a plan.

The Apollo was a savage madhouse in those days.

 

[lkwdblds]

A really worthwhile family life transcends the Sea Org

It is after 11 PM, I just returned from my daughter's house. She had just gotten home after a full day at her new job in the City (an hour north). I was there to exchange cars, because her car is having a power steering problem. She has to be at work tomorrow morning at 6:30 AM. She is working for a start up microfinance network. She's in charge of biz dev (business development). She started at this job, a week before she graduated grad school.

She started the job so she could qualify for the loan on the condo she's buying. It closes escrow in a week or two.

I'm auditing people in Europe by telephone from 10 PM to midnight, my time. Mornings for them.

I get up and do a full day of work starting around 7:30 every day. In daylight savings time, I work until dark. If not for someone else, for myself, in my own yard or house.

This is life in the fast lane. As a family, we like this.

PURPOSEFUL LIVES RAISING CHILDREN WITH LOVE AND SKILL TRUMP EVERYTHING ELSE IN MY OPINION

I did not think it was necessary to make it clear that what I wrote applied only for people who lived for minor pleasures such as having beer and pizza while watching football on Sundays.

Purposeful lives, especially where children are involved and are raised with skill and love to become incredible adults, transcend all other activities in my opinion, especially if while doing this, one is also doing honest and creative work and helping other people through counseling.

EVEN THEN, WHAT I WAS SAYING DESCRIBES AN ABERRATION - STAYING IN THE SEA ORG TO BE BROW BEATEN IS ABERRATED! I was not recommending it but only describing how this aberration seemed to make people feel important and made them feel they had something purposeful to do in life.

Take life in a governmental system such as the European Union. Getting married and having a large family is not encouraged. Instead, one is encouraged to have a short work week and have lots and lots of vacations and do things such as visit art galleries and museums and constantly go on vacations and just enjoy life while the Government takes care or the necessities of life, such as getting you employed and paying for your medical care. If you are sick, don't want to work or can't work, the government covers you so that you receive 80 to 90% of your normal pay check. In this type of life or in a lesser life, living mainly for banal pleasures such as enjoying pizza and beer while watching football a lot of people may prefer to endure being brow beaten by the Sea Org so as to find some sort of purpose for living.

SUMMARY
1. What I say applies only to people with lives without real purpose.
2. What I say describes an aberration and is not something I recommend.
3. What I say describes only why many of us endured this aberration.
4. For people who do have purpose in their lives, my comments do not apply.
I hope that his clears up what I meant by my comments.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Leon - Thanks for the snapshot of "The Apollo - 1971"

Thanks Leon for that snapshot of early and mid 1971 on the Apollo. By 1973 the food issue was solved. My group always had our meals in the back lounge of the ship where they attempted to move you guys. The food service was one thing which was working well in 1973.

On the EPF, we ate on the deck just outside the galley. It was really an Ideal Scene, the one thing on that tub that was run properly. Large vats of eggs, bacon, toast, French toast and so forth were brought out on deck. Decanters of orange juice and tomato juice were brought out along with bottles of syrup and thick slabs of margarine. We could have as much as we wanted. There was also coffee and tea with milk and sugar, as much as you wanted and for those who did not want bacon and eggs, there were large servings of granola along with milk to provide an alternate breakfast.

Someone would always sit next to you or we ate in a group and had good comraderie. About half the sailors were girls and they were always friendly so we males could experience female companionship and vice versa. I seem to remember that for lunch and dinner we ate in the aft lounge but for breakfast it was out on deck in the fresh morning air. That half hour of pleasure every morning was really a nice thing to look forward to.

On the strength of the women, I thought of girls as delicate and weak until my stint on the Bolivar in L.A, Harbor in 1971. We had a detail to remove ballast or something heavy like that from the bottom of the ship, We had to take pieces weighing about 50 pounds and cradle them in our arms, pressing them to our bellies and chests and walk up stairs to the top deck and then out over a gang plank and then stack them a short distance from the ship. I was 31, about 6' and 195 lbs. I was doing good at it but after a while was getting tired. There were maybe 4 men and 4 women doing this. The women were keeping up and doing just as much work as the men. I was amazed. They were expected to meet the same quotas as the guys and they were doing it, all of them. Of course they were all young, around 20 and that helps a lot but still I was impressed.
Lakey

 

[Dulloldfart]

The best post I ever did on ESMB was this:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=416537&postcount=60

All told there were 64 posts on this thread total. No more than a few thousand views. I don't know the exact number.

The thread started off slowly and gently petered out.

Had I posted it on the Apollo thread, it would have been viewed by maybe 500 viewers a day.

It is a simple matter of leverage. If I'm going to spend time authoring something, I hope lots of people read it.

I agree with the sentiment of that last pargraph. I certainly spend enough time writing posts here!

But I query the stats. ESMB counts visits to a *thread*, not the individual posts in that thread. This thread has over 300 pages, each with 10 posts on it. If someone reads only one page, say, which doesn't have a special post of yours on it, the thread still notches up another hit.

Now, it could well be that your posts on this thread get read more than your posts on different threads. I don't know. But without researching it (poll maybe?), I wouldn't simply assume it as fact.

-----

I haven't quoted any of it, but I loved the rest of the post that this came from with pix of your life and family and description of how you raised the kids. Thanks very much for that.

Paul

 

[Kutta]

Hi Lakey. In one of your posts you mention Helen and Joe Hochman. I believe that before Helen, Joe was married to a woman called Nancy. I met her when she was doing some GO work or study at Saint Hill UK in the late 70s. Did you know Nancy by any chance? And do you know what happened to her? I would appreciate any information. Thank you.

 

[Ted]

I was there on the Apollo from Feb to July 1971 doing the OEC/FEBC and then worked on a post for a while in External Comm. With my South African passport I wasn't allowed to go from the ship to the airport in Morocco so I was stuck onboard for about an extra two months.

When I got there the place was chaos, especially at mealtimes. We ate with the officers in the main dining hall. There were nowhere near enough plates or cutlery, food was served in dishes on a sideboard and you had to helpp yourself. You leterally had to push and shove to get anything at all, you'd take food in someone else's dirty coffee cup and eat it with your fingers if need be. Luckily I am 6 foot 2 and could just reach over the heads of many people and grab what I wanted. Others, often girls, were short and not as strong nor as pushy as I, so I would help where I could but often they just got to lick the empty bowl.

After about a week or so of this LRH got to hear about it and had a fit and things started improving. Later there were too many students to accomodate all in the dining room so they tried top turf us all out to the aft-lounge area to eat with the crew, Our table put up a fight and refused to go and so we were the only ones to stay in the dining room to the end.

But I saw the scrabbling for food and so on as being just part of the training you got. Toilet paper was also often not always available and you had to make a plan.

The Apollo was a savage madhouse in those days.

Not even a boot camp environment. More like the roughness of SEALs training camp, except the SEALs are trained to work as a team.

I suppose it was good for indoctrination of admin scios, not good for education. I am glad I was never there.

 

[Ted]

Wow, Ted....sounds like you've got some brain damage, too.

Face

I musta been born with it, :confused2: as I have always been like this.

 

[Ted]

For Lakey, Who Is A Man

Writing my last post answering Ted, I just had an epiphany, a cognition, or a new awareness or a new awakening - whatever term you want to use.

Hanging in there on staff and especially in the Sea Org, it seemed to give tremendous importance to someone's life. A staff member was tested to the full measure of his capabilities and well beyond that! It was a fight for one's Survival, almost on a day to day or week to week basis

Compared to a normal life, going to College, taking tests, doing homework, trying to score with the opposite sex and then getting a job and living a hum drum type life was very tame compared to being in the Sea Org. In the Sea Org, you were caged like an animal and proded with sticks and taser guns (figuratively). your beingness was routinely challenged, you were humbled, humiliated, walked over, made nothing of and yet with that as a background, you were part of a team of some very outstanding people. It was easy to have real fellowship with many fine people. Probably soldiers in combat experience something akin to what Sea Org Members do.

We believed in our mission and felt that Hubbard was by far the greatest man living on Earth

DEEP AND TO THE CORE OF ONE'S SOUL ISSUES
You were challenged and challenged very deeply to the very core of your reason for being. I reacted to it by fighting to defend myself against others I felt were lesser beings than me but who had power over me. When I was cornered and was figuratively in a cage being poked with sticks, I went into a fight mode. All my hormones were raging and I was a viscious opponent if the very essence of my worth or "raison de etre" was being tested. My senses and my mental powers were at extremely high alert levels. At both my fitness board at CC and my Comm Ev on the Apollo, I made statements that stopped my prosecutors cold in their tracks. They were left speechless both times.

The only time I was really hit so hard that I couldn't fight back was when LRH himself accussed me. I believed in LRH so much that when I got busted at the Apollo, I was sure he would find out and come to my defense. When instead, he accused me of embezzling money from CCLA treasury and insisted on this and said that my denials were lies, that pulled the rug out from under me and was the one time in my career there that I did not fight back. That event temporarily broke my will and shattered my self worth.

ALL OF THIS HARASSMENT MADE ONE'S LIFE SEEM HARSH BUT ALSO IMPORTANT AND INTERESTING!
Fighting for your existence in the Sea Org, though extremely ardous, gave one "havingness" to use a Hubbard term. One figured they were more important than the average guy who lived to drink beer and watch football on the weekend. One felt he was playing in this huge game where the stakes were eternity and super human powers for yourself and eternity and survival for everyone else on the planet.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD PREFER TO BE BEATEN AND HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR VERY EXISTENCE IN A GAME THEY PERCEIVE TO BE VERY BIG AND EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. RATHER THAN PLAYING IT SAFE AND LEADING A LIFE OF EASE.

I think we like to flex our muscles as spirits and use all of our wits and cunning in competition with those who would seek to dominate us and that is why so many of us toughed it out for such long periods of time in both Scientology in general and the Sea Organization in particular. There is nothing better to bring a spiritual being to life than having their mettle being challenged by other beings.

Why give up life's challenge for a six pack of beer and a chance to watch football or the Laker game on the weekend?
Lakey

Lakey, as I read your post I could not help but be reminded of something I read years ago: A young man, like 20 to 30, is in the Warrior Phase of his life. This is the time of his greatest strength and speed. If not at actual war, he gets involved in sports. If not physical sports, he gets involved in debate, or chess, or computer games... Or planetary clearing. Note that many, if not most, of us were in our youth when we first entered scientology.

One of the characteristics of NPD is that the person never really matures. It's like they are always dramatizing being a spoiled brat. Being a narcissist, LRH perpetuated a man's warrior phase in the rest of us through his policies and spoken words. We accepted these missives as "truth." His influence extended so far as to cause the females to dramatize their male sides.

When I first got into scientology I realized right away that "confront" was valued. So I confronted. I was confronted in return. I was challenged. If not for the challenges presented to me in my warrior phase I would have turned my back on scientology after satisfying my initial curiosity. That would have taken weeks or months, not years.

I thought I would Google for "Warrior Phase" to see if I could find an exact reference. I found many. The one I copied to here was found at <http://www.stmartinsepiscopal.org/audio/MensLife/2010-pp-week-22.pdf>.

It is a longish bit of text. It goes over other phases of a man's life. It makes sense to me. I hope you enjoy the reading, too. My edit note in brackets [ ... ].

This is copied from below in case you do not care to read the entire article: "The goal in the Warrior Phase is to establish yourself as a man in the world and to fight for your place. And you're ready to fight. Everything in you says to fight. It's the Warrior Stage. It's a time of courage and strength and will power – not necessarily wisdom. You can get it done, just by working harder. During this time, done well, all our energy can do a lot of good. It can also do a lot of evil."

The Six Life Phases

1. The Creational Phase (0 – 20 yrs)

a. Gifts and Talents – what we have & don’t have.

b. Acceptance and development, or confusion and missed opportunity [The Carmelo Method]

Proverbs: “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it.”

The phrase “the way he should go” could be translated train up a child “according to his or her bent.”

In other words, don't try to bend your son or daughter the opposite way that God has created him or her:

• Train them up according to their particular gifts.
• Don't try to make an athlete out of a non-athlete; a musician out of an outdoorsman.
• Whatever happens to be their uniqueness, help them identify, develop and polish it. That's the role of parents -- to affirm your child's talents – rather than deny or criticize them.

2. The Phallic Phase (13-25) - intense sexual energy. In fact, the root meaning of the word Zakar in Hebrew is “male protrusion,” i.e., penis.

a. Sexual Energy - Between 13 and 25, male sexual energy is at its highest point --so high, it creates some significant challenges and adjustments for a young man passing through this stage. The issue of the phase is: Is this sexual energy going to dominate me, or am I going to use it in a principled manner – the way God means it to be used? That is the key question during this particular period of a man's life.

b. Mastery or Enslavement - Is passion going to be something I use, or will it use me?

Robert Hicks: “I've met men in their 50s and 60s who still think of life is below their belt most of the time. They never moved on and never learned sexual energy must be channeled constructively.”

Sexual energy is always part of a man's life, but lessens as we grow older (not all bad). The question of this phase is: Is sexual energy going to be my friend or my master?

I Thessalonians: “For this is the will of God: your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality, that each of you know how to possess his own body in sanctification and in honor, not in lustful passion like unbelievers who do not know God.”

3. The Warrior Phase (20-40), word 'Gibbor’
Proverbs 20:29 says: “The glory of young men is their strength.”

This phase is a good time, because there's power and strength and energy that's naturally a part of a young man's life. This is a time of drive and competitiveness; of pushing to become the best, the biggest, the brightest, the smartest, the most powerful, the most well-known.

a. The drive to establish oneself

The goal in the Warrior Phase is to establish yourself as a man in the world and to fight for your place. And you're ready to fight. Everything in you says to fight. It's the Warrior Stage. It's a time of courage and strength and will power – not necessarily wisdom. You can get it done, just by working harder. During this time, done well, all our energy can do a lot of good. It can also do a lot of evil.

b. Life is the fight.

The goal at this stage of life is to WIN! And to lay the foundation for a future life that's highly successful and motivating. However, near the end of his 30s, a man begins to realize that his desires have changed. He doesn't want to do an all-nighter every again. He doesn‟t want to go into the office on Saturday or Sunday and work 16 hours. He wants to take a vacation, finally!

He also begins to learn that in this fight, usually without a lot of wisdom, he's taken quite a few hits – lost friendships or a marriage that is no longer the same, and perhaps gone forever. Many men sustain wounds during the Warrior Phase and don't even know it until the phase ends and they move on – tired, wounded, and usually deeply disillusioned – “Is this all there is to life?”

4. The Wounded Phase (40-50) -- Enosh

a. Powerful re-evaluation: In our 40s, it dawns on most men that we didn't know what we were doing concerning the things that truly matter to us: our family -- how to deal with, support, and nurture our wife and children.

Most men by their 40s have fulfilled a lot of their life goals early and having fulfilled them, they're left on the battlefield with the sword in their hand asking, “Now what?” Many have lost their marriage, or lost their family, somewhere along the way and ask, “Now what do I do?”

Others have realized that a lot of what they did to achieve success in the past was done for less than honorable reasons. They feel guilt and shame.

Another is president of a company. He toiled for years to reach the top expecting then he would get his father's approval. Only, now he knows he is never going to get that from his dad. He is 48 years old. Now, what does he do?

Many men soothe their pain with drugs and alcohol, and that soon becomes their master.

In the wounded phase, we need to repair the hurt, heal our wounds -- so we don't take them onto the next phase.

The Wounded Stage is a time for re-evaluation, a time to come to terms with what life really is.

The Warrior Stage is over -- thinking we can make anything and everything happen -- because we can't, and now we truly know it. That being true, how then shall we live?

a. Renewal or rut

During this season of life, a man needs to restructure his life and begin to live in a new way, form a new life structure that will be satisfying because the old life structure for many was built on the wrong reasons or broke down.

His choice is to remain in the rut or renew his life. This is the season of wisdom. The season of the Wounded Sage from sagacity or wisdom.

b. Renewal or rut

This stage is also where we mourn, where we stop and face the facts and realize, “I hurt my family, and I'm going to deal with that.” “I've been living my life for the wrong reasons and I'm going to change that.”

As we mourn those mistakes, we readjust our lives. The readjustments point us toward success in the next season of life.

In his Sermon on the mount, Jesus said, “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.”

5. The Mature Phase (50-60) Ish Stage

When a man makes the right adjustments in life, is no longer driven by wounds and the mistakes of his youth, he has become mature.

He doesn't need another toy to feel good about himself; not even a “trophy wife.” He doesn't need to build any bigger monuments to himself. At peace, he has a spiritual vision. He ponders the good he can do for others -- the ultimate goal of manhood. Like Jesus, be a life-giving spirit.

In a word, he seeks “a deeper meaning” to life.

a. Deeper meaning
There is no time that a man has a better opportunity to find “deeper meaning” than in the Ish stage. He can do important things for God's kingdom since he has more money, power and connections than ever before. Regardless of what his past has been, he will be respected for his efforts to make things right. Other men are attracted to a mature man.

b. Strategic moves and mentoring
At this stage, there can be strategic moves a man will make to position himself so he can have the greatest impact for good in his community and church. Some may leave business/profession to enter the church, become a priest or head up a non-profit organization. Others will work half-time (half in service to others).

At the Ish stage, a man is respected and can mentor younger men, providing the wisdom they need.

6. The Sage Phase (60+), Zachin

a. Special contributions

A man doesn't stop working in this stage and many make lasting and great accomplishments. Some of their greatest works were done after the age of 60 by: Picasso, Yeats, Verdi, Frank Lloyd Wright, Freud, Jung, Michelangelo, Tolstoy. Some were great world leaders in this stage of life: Churchill, Ben Gurion, Gandhi, de Gaulle, Reagen.

b. Leave a legacy. These men all left a legacy and we can also leave a legacy for those who will follow us – the next generation.

Your Manhood Plan Map
Your Manhood Plan Map can be – might be – probably is – the most important map of all. In the end, life is not just what happens to us. In the end, life is what we made happen with what we've been given. A man who understands this is a real, authentic man.

What you've planned to happen – what you've envisioned to happen – what you've worked at making happen is manhood at its best. Real men plan their manhood and then work their plan.

Real manhood is not a story about victims, about giving in, about surrender, about passivity, or about crying in our beer and telling some other slug how hard life is!

Yes, life is hard! There is nothing easy about it. And, that's why we pray, beseeching God, “Lord, help me to be the man you want me to be.”

Real manhood is what you and I make happen with God's help and with the hand we've been dealt!

The first step in making that happen is to complete your manhood plan. Make a plan, work the plan, and with God's help great things can happen.

 

[lkwdblds]

I never heard of Nancy Hochman

Hi Lakey. In one of your posts you mention Helen and Joe Hochman. I believe that before Helen, Joe was married to a woman called Nancy. I met her when she was doing some GO work or study at Saint Hill UK in the late 70s. Did you know Nancy by any chance? And do you know what happened to her? I would appreciate any information. Thank you.

Kutta - Helen and Joe were married when I first encountered them in 1971. There was no Nancy Hochman on lines at CC when I got there. I believe that one or both of them were Class VIII auditors. One may have been a Class VI and one an VIII or both VIII's. I am not sure. They were field auditors who were on CCLA lines. I believed they paid Don Keeler to CS their sessions. Any new people who came on their lines for auditing were routed to CCLA for training and some auditing actions which the Hochmans may not have delivered. I really do not remember what the dispute was over, probably Keeler refusing to C/S their pc's unless some special arrangements were made. I was a Dianetic Interne at the time. Helen was discussing her gripe with Don Keeler with someone else in the Internesip room and I was present and heard her talking. She was confident that she and Joe would win the hearing against him. I heard her side of the story and thought she and Joe were 100% right and would prevail in the hearing. Keeler won a total victory against them and Helen and Joe were sitting in the Interneship room after the hearing and tears were streaming done Helen's face.

The Felice Lisa I mentioned who was also brought to tears by Keeler was Felice Brand and then married Joe Lisa. She was a Class VIII I believe and was also a top Exec at CCLA at the time. One precept from the LRH's Code of Honor Keeler really had to the nth degree and that was, "Never fear to hurt another for a just cause." He had that one down, I just did not believe in his ability to discern just causes and when Schraffan got him to start crying, I felt genuine happiness.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Another For Lakey

PURPOSEFUL LIVES RAISING CHILDREN WITH LOVE AND SKILL TRUMP EVERYTHING ELSE IN MY OPINION

I did not think it was necessary to make it clear that what I wrote applied only for people who lived for minor pleasures such as having beer and pizza while watching football on Sundays.

Purposeful lives, especially where children are involved and are raised with skill and love to become incredible adults, transcend all other activities in my opinion, especially if while doing this, one is also doing honest and creative work and helping other people through counseling.

EVEN THEN, WHAT I WAS SAYING DESCRIBES AN ABERRATION - STAYING IN THE SEA ORG TO BE BROW BEATEN IS ABERRATED! I was not recommending it but only describing how this aberration seemed to make people feel important and made them feel they had something purposeful to do in life.

Take life in a governmental system such as the European Union. Getting married and having a large family is not encouraged. Instead, one is encouraged to have a short work week and have lots and lots of vacations and do things such as visit art galleries and museums and constantly go on vacations and just enjoy life while the Government takes care or the necessities of life, such as getting you employed and paying for your medical care. If you are sick, don't want to work or can't work, the government covers you so that you receive 80 to 90% of your normal pay check. In this type of life or in a lesser life, living mainly for banal pleasures such as enjoying pizza and beer while watching football a lot of people may prefer to endure being brow beaten by the Sea Org so as to find some sort of purpose for living.

SUMMARY
1. What I say applies only to people with lives without real purpose.
2. What I say describes an aberration and is not something I recommend.
3. What I say describes only why many of us endured this aberration.
4. For people who do have purpose in their lives, my comments do not apply.
I hope that his clears up what I meant by my comments.
Lakey

In his later years, Alan Walter came to describe his time playing professional football (soccer) as "chasing bags of wind in my underwear." In this way he downplayed any activity in which a person might involve themselves that was not training or processing towards the Green and Gold Zones.

While I can see his point, I also object.

On a.c.t. archives you will find discussions with Alan about being "in the zone." This zone reference was primarily sports related. So I rhetorically ask, "Was this being in the zone, a very desirable state, or was it chasing bags of wind in one's underwear? Or rolling in the mud chasing a ball that won't roll straight? Or running back and forth on grandma's polished wooden floor while putting her 1920 bathing suit on display? Or...?"

Lakey, I think you are right: A life without purpose isn't much of a life. And if the purpose of chasing those bags of wind is to destroy, to dominate, to win at any cost, that purpose is worthy of being questioned.

Yet when I look over my time in sports, there was a lot more going on than slapping a ball of string covered in leather with a stick. There was teamwork, there was being in the zone, and out of the zone. There was truth and honor on display. And much more. I only have to access any of my moments in the game to see what was going on knowingly and even unknowingly.

"The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor." -- Vince Lombardi

 

[lkwdblds]

Ted - Your post #3134 is very inspirational...

Ted. what a great post you have made in #3134. Great words of wisdom and a knowledgeable and keen slant on how a man's life should be organized and lived.

If have two questions/comments to raise: With all the advancement in nutrition and health care since Biblical times, I think the boundaries of the dates might need some adjustement. Today's 50 year old man may be at an equivalent phase to a 40 year old man in biblical times and today, 70 might correspond to men 60 in biblical times. That is just a minor fine tuning of the dates and is does not effect any of the content which you wrote.

The other comment, and this is more basic - These writings seem to apply only to men and not women. Is there a similar pattern of conduct with similar phases of life for women? Despite what our Universities teach, male and female sexuality have enormous differences.

A woman is at her physical peak in her youth as well but rather than physical strength and willingness to fight, a woman must use her her beauty and her charms in place of brute physical strength. BTW, I believe that physical strength in women is greatly underestimated. I have been involved in EPF activities on Sea Org ships where women were asked to do heavy lifting along side the guys, with no allowances made for being a woman or being of smaller stature, and the women were able to match the mens' performances every time.

As far as fighting, women do that as well. They can have extremely strong Ethics presence in the Sea Org, for example. No one would want to get Yvonne Jentzch or someone like that angry with them. I also hear that Jane Kember could be viscious if someone crossed her. Ditto for Captain Joan Robertson on the Apollo.

So if you could, Ted, please say a few words about where the ladies fit in this sytemized view of life.

I am happy to hear that your writings originate from Hebrew sources, the tribe which I am affiliated with genetically and to some degree spiritually. The Hebrews are certainly the authorites to write such things because they are the longest continuously surving group on the planet going back many thousands of years. Never has a people been the object of so many viscious and lethal attacks to wipe them out. One would have thought that after the Nazi's, those types of attacks would have ceased but they have not and are currently being renewed, as strong as pre WWII.

As to the comments about the phases of manhood, I am in full agreement with every word you wrote and or cited. It is so well written that it is ridiculous to try and add something or try and find a nuance to improve it. The writings are perfect as they stand, at least for me. Probably there will be detractors, lets wait and see.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Baseball is one of the silliest games in this respect.

In his later years, Alan Walter came to describe his time playing professional football (soccer) as "chasing bags of wind in my underwear." In this way he downplayed any activity in which a person might involve themselves that was not training or processing towards the Green and Gold Zones.

While I can see his point, I also object.

On a.c.t. archives you will find discussions with Alan about being "in the zone." This zone reference was primarily sports related. So I rhetorically ask, "Was this being in the zone, a very desirable state, or was it chasing bags of wind in one's underwear? Or rolling in the mud chasing a ball that won't roll straight? Or running back and forth on grandma's polished wooden floor while putting her 1920 bathing suit on display? Or...?"

Lakey, I think you are right: A life without purpose isn't much of a life. And if the purpose of chasing those bags of wind is to destroy, to dominate, to win at any cost, that purpose is worthy of being questioned.

Yet when I look over my time in sports, there was a lot more going on than slapping a ball of string covered in leather with a stick. There was teamwork, there was being in the zone, and out of the zone. There was truth and honor on display. And much more. I only have to access any of my moments in the game to see what was going on knowingly and even unknowingly.

"The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor." -- Vince Lombardi

Ted, baseball is perhaps the silliest of these games, Instead of underwear, the attire is pajamas, flannel pajamas, someitmes with stripes on them. Just imagine if a man is on first base, standing on a canvas bag and the pitcher is looking at his catcher and keeps shaking his head no, no, no and then finally shakes his head yes, finally the classificiation of the next pitch to occur is established, (i.e. fastball, curve ball or slider) Maybe he will stop pitching and reach for a bag of resin lying on the ground nearby, pat his pitching hand with the resin and then maybe scratch his groin area, maybe spit on the ground. Finally he starts to wind up to throw his pitch but instead fires the ball over to first base to try and "pick off" the runner there. Perhaps, 3 full minutes have gone by with various pajama clad men staring each other down and no action has really occured to move the game forward. Yes, the game is from the 19th century when times were slower and it really shows. Yet, once one gets addicted to it, as I am, the games are quite interesting to watch.

Coach John Wooden of the UCLA basketball from 1949 to 1975 just died last week just short of 100 years old. All his former players eulogize him as perhaps the most influential man in their lives. This man coached not just sporting skills but coached men to become real men and contribute to society and lead good lives. He was in the zone his entire life, This man is a legend, new stadiums are being built and named for him at this moment. He has a legacy of dozens, if not hundreds, of his former players and associates spread throughout the country going out of their way to help boys and girls build better lives and have strong moral prinicples.

Even when he played himself for Purdue back in the early 1930's, though under 6' in height, he was voted an "All American" player for his final two years at Purdue. The man demanded excellence from himself and everyone whose life he touched. BTW, when Woden played, the uniforms really did look like 1920's bathing suits.

I believe strongly that attaining excellence in any field is what counts, choose a field you love and excel at it. It could be at tiddly-winks, if you make it to be the best at that field then you are a champion. Coach Vince Lombardi who you use for your closing quote was a winner in his game of American Football just like John Wooden was in college basietball. Coach Lombardi's words say it all and say it well!
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Would a laptop/netbook hookup via a wireless router help? That way you could sit in the garden and shift your focus as you felt to be most comfortable.

BTW, I understand what you mean by "information packets". I am verbal to excess and don't usually pay sufficient attention to non-verbal forms of thought but one of my most entrancing & surprising experiences from audting (total blowout) led to my experience of the non-verbal nature of basic thought. Sounds like you are "way ahead of the pack" on that front.


Mark A. Baker

Thank you. I’ve tried a friend's laptop…it just doesn’t “feel” right in the garden…like it doesn’t belong there and I don’t belong there with it…crazy, I know, but I’m comfortable in my craziness…most of the time.:confused2:

I wasn’t sure if “information packets” would make sense to others…very cool re: your experience with non-verbal thought. It is, in part, what my book is about. To me, it is more—and less—than “silence” or “stillness”. The best analogy I’ve have, so far, is a compass. Part of the analogy is as follows:

A compass has no purpose without the center point and a sweep arm pivot. “Heart” is the center point and “Soul” is a sweep arm pivot. Now, some may argue that it’s the other way around…they may be “right”…I don’t know…language and semantics are a real bitch. But, to me, “Soul” is a construct, “Heart” just is…and isn’t. True “Heart” is always there, nowhere, can never be “touched”, yet "touches" all and without a “Soul”, "Heart" has no "context" yet is "All" that is and is not...and, quoting that Great Sage of the Ages Porky Pig, "And, That's All, Folks!"

I realize that I have not said anything new but, for me, it is experientially “new” and am compelled to “drift” in that particular “information packet” and attempt to describe it in, “Heart Is Where The Home Is”. (Copyrighted Working Title)

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Lakey & Ted…you guys are on a roll…good stuff, great posts.

Leon…Thank you…your post was a trip down memory lane for me…the only reason that stuff happened was because folks were implementing an El Ron Order!!! (OEC/FEBC Project) without being granted access to the requisite resources required to properly provide provisions for the human beings involved and effected by said order. (Gawd I love alliterating)

All three of you are, again, prescient and your comments “foot” with “Adios Apollo” which I hope to post tomorrow or the next day.

Face