The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[CarmeloOrchards]

Lakey, my Love, remember the LRH dictum that the concept of "overts" and "out ethics" are relative to one's moral codes . . . that is, relative to the cultural norms and agreed standards of conduct of the society or culture you are operating in.

A lot of stuff we see as insane out-eth acts by Islam based on our Judeo-Christian values are required norms for some in Islam.

So, what you were seeing in the folks you refer to is an expression of the cocoon and small little world they are living in . . . in their little universe it's quite OK to be a flake in the manner they demonstrated!

This, of course, is also one of the demonstrations of the grave limits and errors of the Scn tech . . . . these cats up at the top of the "Bridge" from OT2 onwards are only dealing with their own little universe . . . they are not dealing with nor addressing anything to do with optimization of relationships across a wider spectrum of activities or connections with others in the game.

Those Scn levels are very "me" centric, and fraught with the ego trip of being on the "upper levels" . . . and of being soooo superior and right about whatever it is they do. These cats simply do not view the game from the perspective of those they interface with . . . they are stuck in their own little viewpoint.

There are some, who natively operate at a higher level of relating with their fellows, who when they do these upper levels can relate with others even more responsibly and caringly . . . . but neither going clear nor the OT levels address this---so one should not expect it.

It's been said a cleared cannibal is a cleared cannibal . . . well, an OT idiot is an OT idiot

Fact is, Scn does not address in any way shape or form respect for others or the optimizing of relationships with others. It is an issue of omitted tech in their subject.

Abuse is the norm of practice in the CofS . . . and they have no tech to deal with it, and they do not even understand what abuse is!!

And this is one of the issues that is doing them in . . . abuse by its members on its members is what is driving so many folks away from the the bloody place

RogerB

First, let me say this post appeared to me as a phantom, after I just posted a reply to Lakey's very same post.

This reply clearly shows the vast lack of grey matter I have, when compared to Roger. Oy vey! What a commanding post. In very few words, Roger dissects and analyses major outpoints of Scientology. He elucidates them clear as a bell, and brings them home for any school boy (or girl) to understand. He doesn't use $.25 words, he doesn't pontificate. He speaks with respect to you, Lakey, and your direct experience. This is a marvelous post.

My post, on the other hand, is facetious, though just as true. I didn't ever bother to analyze, even for myself, at the depth Roger just did. I knew, intuitively that the OT levels are shams. Until, moments ago, I could not have given the details the way Roger just did.

To diverge, just for a moment: When I was learning how to fix up houses for resale, back in the 70s. I'd hire a carpenter (for instance) to come and hang cabinets in my kitchen. I watch him, and ask lots of questions. I'd pay him. Next time, I'd do it myself. I'm a quick learner.

Reading Roger's posts is like watching a true craftsman hanging cabinets. I'll learn from what he says, and check out the thought processes that led him there.

having a sage on board is a good thing.

 

[Ted]

This post will be brief, but important nonetheless:

Two things that do not get addressed on the scio bridge: the pc's expectations and the pc's sense of entitlements.

Two-way communication on these matters can peel off a lot of charge in short order. A two-way comm on expectations effectively addresses ARC breaks in a way that an assessment of ARCU/CDEINR just can't.

In two-way comm of entitlements you can bring to view hidden standards, serfacs, fixed ideas, and evil purps.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

this is a good read in regard to what we are posting about OT levels

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=438649&postcount=65

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

This post will be brief, but important nonetheless:

Two things that do not get addressed on the scio bridge: the pc's expectations and the pc's sense of entitlements.

Two-way communication on these matters can peel off a lot of charge in short order. A two-way comm on expectations effectively addresses ARC breaks in a way that an assessment of ARCU/CDEINR just can't.

In two-way comm of entitlements you can bring to view hidden standards, serfacs, fixed ideas, and evil purps.

can you flesh out the entitlements a little

For instance:

We are helping the youngest son and daughter in law (with 3 yr old twin boys) find and then purchase a house.

The son had a penthouse condo, which "had" to be sold because it didn't match her view of herself. Then that money got wasted (my opinion) on a big wedding and bringing all her relatives to that wedding. Then they bought a condo in the city that she grew up in. It had so many structural problems and termites, that they sold it and managed to lose all the rest of their money.


Now we (wife and I) want to see them get a dump of a house in a nice neighborhood with good schools, fix it up, and live in it for a good long time. The daughter in law would rather live in "her" city next to a busy busy thoroughfare backed up to a barrio apartment building.

We're not going to win this battle, but we're not going to fund it either.

What do you ask regarding "entitlements"?

 

[RogerB]

can you flesh out the entitlements a little

For instance:

We are helping the youngest son and daughter in law (with 3 yr old twin boys) find and then purchase a house.

The son had a penthouse condo, which "had" to be sold because it didn't match her view of herself. Then that money got wasted (my opinion) on a big wedding and bringing all her relatives to that wedding. Then they bought a condo in the city that she grew up in. It had so many structural problems and termites, that they sold it and managed to lose all the rest of their money.


Now we (wife and I) want to see them get a dump of a house in a nice neighborhood with good schools, fix it up, and live in it for a good long time. The daughter in law would rather live in "her" city next to a busy busy thoroughfare backed up to a barrio apartment building.

We're not going to win this battle, but we're not going to fund it either.

What do you ask regarding "entitlements"?

CarmelO,

"Entitlements" are based on belief.

Beliefs stems from one's own thoughts on any subject or the adopting/accepting of another's or others' thoughts on things.

Such thoughts also lead to decisions . . . either way, the genesis of the ongoing condition of existence is a thought.

Alan devised a wonderful "Thoughts are Things R/D" with a little help cum prodding from RogerB

Two versions: a) one's own thoughts, b) other's thoughts.

Same R/D, just that, having recognized a thought you are operating on and affected by is from another, one simply processes it from the perspective that it was sourced by the other and then, at the end of the R/D the final steps are to "return the thought to sender/source."

An extended version of the R/D is in the case handling version of the CleanSlate . . . an original shorter, less complex version is in stand alone form.

This below is extracted from the extensive clean slate version.
________________________________

Tell me what your perceptions are about that (subject being addressed). Acknowledge their answer.

3. What precepts, beliefs or thoughts do you have about or from (thing being addressed from step 0)?
Get the person to look to the past, present or future for the answer and to tell you the precept, belief or thought. (By asking the person to look to the past. present or future, you are directing their attention to their projections, comprehension, visions. concepts, or minds.) Write down and acknowledge their answer.

4a. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), where is it? Acknowledge their answer.

b. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its size? Acknowledge their answer.

c. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its form or shape? Acknowledge their answer.

d. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its color? Acknowledge their answer.

e. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its weight? Acknowledge their answer.
f. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what is its duration? Acknowledge their answer.

g. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what are its mood levels? Acknowledge their answer.

If there are low mood levels, run mood handling.
EXPERIENCE NEGATIVE MOOD HANDLING:
a. What part of (named mood) are you willing to experience?
b. What part of (named mood) would you rather not experience?
Repeat a and b over and over to Cause Indicators.

CREATE NEGATIVE MOOD HANDLING:
a. What part of (named mood) are you willing to create?
b. What part of (named mood) would you rather not create?
Repeat a and b over and over to Cause Indicators.

Find positive opposite mood and run: EXPERIENCE POSITIVE MOOD HANDLING:
a. What part of (named mood) are you willing to experience?
b. What part of (named mood) would you rather not experience? Repeat a and b over and over to Cause Indicators.

CREATE POSITIVE MOOD HANDLING:
a. What part of (named mood) are you willing to create?
b. What part of (named mood) would you rather not create? Repeat a and b over and over to Cause Indicators.

h. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what mood must not be experienced? Acknowledge their answer.
If there are must not be experienced mood levels, run mood handling.

i. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what mood must be experienced? Acknowledge their answer.
If there are must be experienced mood levels, run mood handling.

END PHENOMENA CHECK: After running all moods — check for interest or end phenomena.
EP: Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), how does it seem to you now? Acknowledge their answer.
* * * *
If client still has interest on (named precept/belief/thought), continue running:
j. Connected to (named precept/belief/thought), what are its limitations? Acknowledge their answer.

k. Does (named precept/belief/thought) create an image or vision? If”Yes”, say:
Tell me about it. Acknowledge their answer.

1. How does (named precept/belief/thought) manifest in your presence-time? Acknowledge their answer.

5a. How has or could (named precept/belief/thought) make you right about thing being addressed from step 0)? Acknowledge their answer.

b. What have been or could be the consequences of that? Acknowledge their answer.

c. How has or could (named precept/belief/thought) make another or others wrong about (thing being addressed from step 0)? Acknowledge their answer

d. What have been or could be the consequences of that? Acknowledge their answer.

e. What problem does or could (named precept/belief/thought) help you solve or escape from? Acknowledge their answer. Making sure you write down the exact problem.

f. 1. What part of (named problem) are you willing to confront and handle?
Acknowledge their answer.
f. 2. What part of (named problem) would you rather not confront and avoid handling? Acknowledge their answer.
Repeat f 1 and 2 over and over until the person has a rise in mood level, an increase in certainty, a realization (or Aha!), regained abilities, a big win, and huge quantities of recovered life-force particles.
Note: If the problem is too big, does not resolve, or is reoccurring, tell the person they will need to get this problem handled as soon as possible in professional processing.

g. Is there another problem that (named precept/belief/thought) does or could help you solve or escape from? Acknowledge their answer. If there is another problem, repeat steps f 1 and 2. Then repeat steps g and f 1 and 2 until all problems have been handled

6. Have there been or could there be any other consequences of having the precept (named precept/belief/thought)? Acknowledge their answer
Repeat question 6 until all past, present and future consequences have been viewed

7. Do you have or could you have any other precepts, beliefs or thoughts about or from (thing being addressed from step 0)?
Repeat questions 4 through 7 until all precepts have been viewed Then return to the beginning and repeat steps 0 to 7 until the person no longer has any unviewed projections, memories, precepts, belief thoughts, or consequences on the thing being addressed Then ask:

8. Connected to (thing being addressed from step 0), is there or do you foresee any unpleasant sensation?
If there is, get it named and run:
a, From where could a spiritual being experience (named unpleasant sensation)?
Repeat over and over until the person has a rise in mood level, an increase in certainty, a realization (or Aha!), regained abilities, a big win, and huge quantities of recovered life-force particles,
b. From where could a spiritual being create (named unpleasant sensation)?

 

[lkwdblds]

Another good post, you are on a roll!

This post will be brief, but important nonetheless:

Two things that do not get addressed on the scio bridge: the pc's expectations and the pc's sense of entitlements.

Two-way communication on these matters can peel off a lot of charge in short order. A two-way comm on expectations effectively addresses ARC breaks in a way that an assessment of ARCU/CDEINR just can't.

In two-way comm of entitlements you can bring to view hidden standards, serfacs, fixed ideas, and evil purps.

Ted, I think you are on a roll. Two way communication on these matters really seems as if would peel off a lot of charge in short order, charge that ARCU/CDEINR just can't handle.

I can't tell you how many times I have related the stories of terrible experiences which have happened to me mainly at the Apollo and to a lesser extent at CCLA. Telling my stories both in and out of session have not blown the charge associated with the events. A typical story is the one where Class 8 C/S Don Keeler would not graduate me from the Dianetic Internship at CCLA and when I compained he tried to off load me from staff. No number of retellings in various sessions and discussions has ever blown any of the enormous amount of charge connected with that event. NOTs doesn't handle it because the charge is my own, not some other entities.

Everything that I believe is important in life was violated when Keeler handled me the way he did. I can see by inspection that two way comm on my expectations and entitlements probably would quickly handle the charge for me terminatedly.

Lakey

 

[thetanic]

This post will be brief, but important nonetheless:

Two things that do not get addressed on the scio bridge: the pc's expectations and the pc's sense of entitlements.

Addressing Carmelo's question and in addition what RogerB said, my expectation (heh) about entitlements might be run as:

What are you entitled to?
What are others entitled to from you?
What are others entitled to from others? (or another/others)
What are you entitled to from yourself?

Could also run the inverse (what aren't you entitled to, etc.).

Could also run a prepcheck "On entitlement."

Expectations seem to lead to reality breaks later on.

 

[lkwdblds]

Managing a team of All Stars

Carmelo's comments and accolades to Roger reminded me that as founder of this thread and co host, I am priveledged to be working with a team of All Stars. This reminded me of the Baseball All Star Game coming up shortly to be held in Anaheim California, right near my house.

In helping to mock up this thread, I was humorously reminded of trying to manage a baseball or basketball All Star Team.

Rog reminds of the most wisened player/manager who knows everything there is to know about the game and is very willing to impart his knowledge to is team mates. He is to our thread what John Wooden was to basketball.

Carmelo reminds me of the flashy go to guy, maybe a guy like Mickey Mantle was. He is always the master of his destiny, any difficulty, no matter how large, can always be surmounted if Carmelo is on the scene.

Ted is a consistent hitter of singles and doubles. He's been around a long time and if your team needs a clutch hit or a big catch, he is your man. His counterpart in baseball would be Ichiro Suzuki on the Seattle Mariners or Derek Jeter on the Yankees.

Face was a tremendous player way back when but was injured and can no longer play on the field but he can sure coach and analyze the play from the sidelines. His counterpart would be the pitcher, Herb Score of Cleveland whose career was ended in one pitch when a batter hit a liner which hit Score in the head and ended his career.

Leon is a crosstown rival of Rog much like the coaches over at USC were to Wooden at UCLA. His own career in the game was storied but Wooden over at UCLA got more publicity than the USC coach - I believe his name was Bob Boyd.

Of course there are many more all stars but these guys stand out. In most cases in sports where there are many big Super Stars on the Same team, there are problems with egos clashing and the manager has real problems keeping the team motivated and focused. Not so with these All Stars. Their egos don't clash and really they are so good that they need no manager. Yikes! what am I doing here, my services are not really needed.

Nevertheless, to coin a word from Ted's recent post, I feel I am entitled to be able to associated electronically with such great All Star Players. The fact that I took so many hits on the Apollo entitiles me to hang with you guys. As far as expectations, all my expectations for this thread have been exceeded. This covers the level and quality of the people who post here, the topics we take up, the friends and acquaintances I have made, the expansion of my mind as a result of participating here and the improvement in my state of case. Every minute I have spent typing on my keyboard for this thread has been rewarded 20 times over for me, I hope most of you feel the same way.
Lakey
P.S. Carmelo - I enjoyed your complimenting Roger and also enjoyed your telling us about a difficulty which arose in your family. It makes you seem more human. A guy who has every situation mastered is very admirable but a little scary. Having to face a problem or two along the way makes you more real to me. It sounds to me as if you have a good handle on that problem!

 

[Ted]

Carmelo's comments and accolades to Roger reminded me that as founder of this thread and co host, I am priveledged to be working with a team of All Stars. This reminded me of the Baseball All Star Game coming up shortly to be held in Anaheim California, right near my house.

In helping to mock up this thread, I was humorously reminded of trying to manage a baseball or basketball All Star Team.

Rog reminds of the most wisened player/manager who knows everything there is to know about the game and is very willing to impart his knowledge to is team mates. He is to our thread what John Wooden was to basketball.

Carmelo reminds me of the flashy go to guy, maybe a guy like Mickey Mantle was. He is always the master of his destiny, any difficulty, no matter how large, can always be surmounted if Carmelo is on the scene.

Ted is a consistent hitter of singles and doubles. He's been around a long time and if your team needs a clutch hit or a big catch, he is your man. His counterpart in baseball would be Ichiro Suzuki on the Seattle Mariners or Derek Jeter on the Yankees.

Face was a tremendous player way back when but was injured and can no longer play on the field but he can sure coach and analyze the play from the sidelines. His counterpart would be the pitcher, Herb Score of Cleveland whose career was ended in one pitch when a batter hit a liner which hit Score in the head and ended his career.

Leon is a crosstown rival of Rog much like the coaches over at USC were to Wooden at UCLA. His own career in the game was storied but Wooden over at UCLA got more publicity than the USC coach - I believe his name was Bob Boyd.

Of course there are many more all stars but these guys stand out. In most cases in sports where there are many big Super Stars on the Same team, there are problems with egos clashing and the manager has real problems keeping the team motivated and focused. Not so with these All Stars. Their egos don't clash and really they are so good that they need no manager. Yikes! what am I doing here, my services are not really needed.

Nevertheless, to coin a word from Ted's recent post, [1] I feel I am entitled to be able to associated electronically with such great All Star Players. The fact that I took so many hits on the Apollo entitiles me to hang with you guys. As far as expectations, all my expectations for this thread have been exceeded. This covers the level and quality of the people who post here, the topics we take up, the friends and acquaintances I have made, the expansion of my mind as a result of participating here and the improvement in my state of case. Every minute I have spent typing on my keyboard for this thread has been rewarded 20 times over for me, I hope most of you feel the same way.
Lakey
P.S. Carmelo - I enjoyed your complimenting Roger and also enjoyed your telling us about a difficulty which arose in your family. It makes you seem more human. A guy who has every situation mastered is very admirable but a little scary. Having to face a problem or two along the way makes you more real to me. It sounds to me as if you have a good handle on that problem!

1) If that brings a balanced, satisfied state to your mind, in the way you have it mocked up and perceived, then by all means be/feel entitled. You do not need any agreement from us on that. On the other hand, do not lose sight of how or why you felt so because it might not work in other forums. :wink2:

2) I love your references to baseball. I have something to write up in that regard. It's a tech thing using a baseball metaphor. I'll have to do it later.

3) Wiki: On May 7, 1957, against the New York Yankees, Score was struck in the face by a line drive off the bat of Gil McDougald, breaking numerous bones in his face and leaving him bloodied. McDougald reportedly vowed to retire if Score was blinded as a result, but Score actually eventually recovered his 20/20 vision, ...

I know where I was on the next day. My dad came home to tell me about the event.

4) 1957 was a good year for me, a real good year. I got my first baseball uniform! Suited up for summer play in a real league! Well, Little League. Still a big deal though.

5) I know where I was one hot summer day in 1955: I was with my dad at Yankee Stadium. We had moved from the third base line seats to behind home plate for a while. We got there just in time to see Phil Rizzuto get beaned and carried off the field.

Here's the video. Youtube seems to be down at the moment. I hope it comes through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT8vO2JfjZQ

 

[Enthetan]

Ted your second and third paragraphs really resonate with me! If one showed heart there while in the Sea Org, one wase pretty much disciplined quite heavily and passed up for promotions. That was probably the thing in me which Don Keeler saw which he did not like, to the degree that he refused to even graduate me from my internship and instead had me fitness boarded so as to kick me out of the Sea Org. When one man takes it upon himself to offload a guy with a good heart and high stats because that guy is too kind hearted, he is really placing himself on a pedestal and putting himself in a position to play God over that person's life. When I querried him as to why he refused to graduate me he said that I "lacked the certainty which is required to be an auditor." He said there were no other words he could use to describe it other than a lack of certainty. The better way to put it was that I was kind hearted and always took a personal interested in my pc's.

What I'd found over the years was that what was demanded was loyalty -- not loyalty to the tech, nor loyalty to the public, but loyalty to your seniors. You were expected to obey the orders of your senior and make him look good, regardless of the consequences to others.

If you flowed power to your chain of command, then you had value. If you were stupid enough to care about people at the expense of your senior's stats, then you were scum. All too often, the ideal junior was considered to be somebody who would enthusiastically shove people into the ovens at Dachau if it would get this weeks stats up by Thursday at 2pm.

 

[lkwdblds]

Boy, you've got that right! Bottle it and sell it!

What I'd found over the years was that what was demanded was loyalty -- not loyalty to the tech, nor loyalty to the public, but loyalty to your seniors. You were expected to obey the orders of your senior and make him look good, regardless of the consequences to others.

If you flowed power to your chain of command, then you had value. If you were stupid enough to care about people at the expense of your senior's stats, then you were scum. All too often, the ideal junior was considered to be somebody who would enthusiastically shove people into the ovens at Dachau if it would get this weeks stats up by Thursday at 2pm.

You stated it extremely wel!! Can you imagine, instead of paying homage to Keeler, I wandered over to the Ethics office and merely looked into the possibility that he might be doing something unethical by refusing to graduate me when I did all the steps leading to graduation. I only asked but took no further action. I am sure the Master at Arms notified Keeler because 2 days later I received notification that I was being Fitness Boarded and the odds were that I would be off loaded.

Just look at the steps leading up to the Fitness board. I was regged hard to join staff. I had just quit a job paying about $90,000 in today's money to join the Sea Org. On my first Interneship I did over 100 hours of well done auditing, then 25 in one week and 8 in one day. My reward, graduation? hardly but rather being off loaded. There was no way I could get hired back at IBM after walking out on them to join the Sea Org so Keeler was going to set me adrift with no job and probably a sizeable Freeloader debt. The execs were robotic to him, all of them including Yvonne. He was the highest trained tech terminal in the Org and they scrupulously followed his recommendation that I was not fit to serve there. Only some quick thinking and a good memory saved my bacon, they were desparately looking for someone to be in Treasury and nobody wanted any part of that division so I offered to be posted in Treasury and found a win - win solution to the problem. Can you imagine going through something like that and still wanting to stay. Go figure!
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Checkin' in

Face here...checkin' in.

Gawd you guys are on a roll.

Lakey=Maury Wills...always playing full-out, relentless, scratching and clawing to get on base and then move up into scoring position...makes ya wanna get up there and take your swings.

Face

 

[FoTi]

Carmelo's comments and accolades to Roger reminded me that as founder of this thread and co host, I am priveledged to be working with a team of All Stars. This reminded me of the Baseball All Star Game coming up shortly to be held in Anaheim California, right near my house.

In helping to mock up this thread, I was humorously reminded of trying to manage a baseball or basketball All Star Team.

Rog reminds of the most wisened player/manager who knows everything there is to know about the game and is very willing to impart his knowledge to is team mates. He is to our thread what John Wooden was to basketball.

Carmelo reminds me of the flashy go to guy, maybe a guy like Mickey Mantle was. He is always the master of his destiny, any difficulty, no matter how large, can always be surmounted if Carmelo is on the scene.

Ted is a consistent hitter of singles and doubles. He's been around a long time and if your team needs a clutch hit or a big catch, he is your man. His counterpart in baseball would be Ichiro Suzuki on the Seattle Mariners or Derek Jeter on the Yankees.

Face was a tremendous player way back when but was injured and can no longer play on the field but he can sure coach and analyze the play from the sidelines. His counterpart would be the pitcher, Herb Score of Cleveland whose career was ended in one pitch when a batter hit a liner which hit Score in the head and ended his career.

Leon is a crosstown rival of Rog much like the coaches over at USC were to Wooden at UCLA. His own career in the game was storied but Wooden over at UCLA got more publicity than the USC coach - I believe his name was Bob Boyd.

Of course there are many more all stars but these guys stand out. In most cases in sports where there are many big Super Stars on the Same team, there are problems with egos clashing and the manager has real problems keeping the team motivated and focused. Not so with these All Stars. Their egos don't clash and really they are so good that they need no manager. Yikes! what am I doing here, my services are not really needed.

Nevertheless, to coin a word from Ted's recent post, I feel I am entitled to be able to associated electronically with such great All Star Players. The fact that I took so many hits on the Apollo entitiles me to hang with you guys. As far as expectations, all my expectations for this thread have been exceeded. This covers the level and quality of the people who post here, the topics we take up, the friends and acquaintances I have made, the expansion of my mind as a result of participating here and the improvement in my state of case. Every minute I have spent typing on my keyboard for this thread has been rewarded 20 times over for me, I hope most of you feel the same way.
Lakey

Well, I'm just watching from the grandstand here, but I just want to say that I really enjoy this team.


Since this thread seems to encompass any and all subjects, from time to time, I just wanted to interject here some info (maybe new to some of you) on exercises to keep the team and the fans fit and healthy.

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fi...utes-of-exercise-yields-hourlong-effects.aspx

After watching the video in the above link, and reading the info, then the next link gives you the specific exercise videos. This is all free, and I think very good info for health and fitness. I, personally was not aware of this info and some of these exercises before today.


http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/videos.aspx

Here's to a strong and healthy team.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Sports Talk ESMB

I was listening to Eric Byrnes, on the radio, the other day.

He is now playing with Menlo Park, CA's Old Pro Bar softball team. He is collecting $11 mil from Seattle and Arizona for not playing hardball.

He told a story of throwing a ball at Ichiro, recently. Byrnesy threw it fast and hard. Ichiro turned around, so that he was facing away from it.

Byrnes had visions of taking Ichiro out of the game when the ball hit his head.

Instead Ichiro , with his back turned to the ball, grabbed it with his mitt while facing away from the ball.

may the force be with you, grasshopper

 

[Leon]

Ted, I think you are on a roll. Two way communication on these matters really seems as if would peel off a lot of charge in short order, charge that ARCU/CDEINR just can't handle.

I can't tell you how many times I have related the stories of terrible experiences which have happened to me mainly at the Apollo and to a lesser extent at CCLA. Telling my stories both in and out of session have not blown the charge associated with the events. A typical story is the one where Class 8 C/S Don Keeler would not graduate me from the Dianetic Internship at CCLA and when I compained he tried to off load me from staff. No number of retellings in various sessions and discussions has ever blown any of the enormous amount of charge connected with that event. NOTs doesn't handle it because the charge is my own, not some other entities.

Everything that I believe is important in life was violated when Keeler handled me the way he did. I can see by inspection that two way comm on my expectations and entitlements probably would quickly handle the charge for me terminatedly.

Lakey

A few points.

Thetans have a very strong innate sense of Justice. When that gets violated by another it usually sits not as "charge" in the bank but as a "theta" violation. Bill Robertson called these "Theta Breaks" instead of ARC breaks. They can't be "audited" in the normal sense, one has to simply indiscate the break and re-take one's own viewpoint that one had prior to the violation. It is really an Ethics matter, not a "case" matter. One abandoned a bit of one's own beingness when one went the effect of the violator. You are the lead player of your own game. Never are you a particle in someone else's game.

Remember that if it can be stated as a rule to be followed then it is in the realm of Morals, and not Ethics. Morals depend on group agreements within a particular game. Ethics is native to the being and transcends all games.


Furthermore: Duty - properly understood - is the highest of all motivations. And one's duty is always and only ever to one's juniors. Never to one's seniors. Wherever you are, in that position and in that role, you are the leader to those who follow you. Your duty is to them. Period.

Hope this helps.

 

[lkwdblds]

It certainly does help!

A few points.

Thetans have a very strong innate sense of Justice. When that gets violated by another it usually sits not as "charge" in the bank but as a "theta" violation. Bill Robertson called these "Theta Breaks" instead of ARC breaks. They can't be "audited" in the normal sense, one has to simply indiscate the break and re-take one's own viewpoint that one had prior to the violation. It is really an Ethics matter, not a "case" matter. One abandoned a bit of one's own beingness when one went the effect of the violator. You are the lead player of your own game. Never are you a particle in someone else's game.

Remember that if it can be stated as a rule to be followed then it is in the realm of Morals, and not Ethics. Morals depend on group agreements within a particular game. Ethics is native to the being and transcends all games.


Furthermore: Duty - properly understood - is the highest of all motivations. And one's duty is always and only ever to one's juniors. Never to one's seniors. Wherever you are, in that position and in that role, you are the leader to those who follow you. Your duty is to them. Period.

Hope this helps.

It helps bigtime!! Leon, this is the fourth time, I believe, that you have come to my aid with some great advice about a long standing case condition which will not go away.

Leon, your first paragraph on "Theta Breaks" totally indicates. That is a major piece of tech that I had never been exposed to before. As I said in my earlier post, In not graduating me but attempting to offload me, Keeler violated every stable datum and rule of living that I held dear. It was a Theta Violation. Here was a highly classed and certified Case Supervisor that was supposed to represent an Organization that was mankind's last hope for salvation and he carries out an act calculated to destroy my life and break every agreement and rule for living which I intrinsicly held dear. I was forced to give up my goal to be an auditor and take a position in Treasury just to keep from being kicked off staff.

If Keeler's duty, as my senior, was to me, he totally abandoned it in a concerted effort to destroy me. The Senior Executives were cowed by him and were under his spell. He was not even a Sea Org member and yet these top Sea Org members were beholden to him. I was their junior as well and they nearly let me go down the drain. Only a creative effort from me, the lowest man on the totem pole, partially saved day for all of us.

And where does LRH fit into all this. If his responsibility was to those below him in rank, that would be everybody else on Earth from his point of view. He was doing the job very well in tech development but in handling and enhancing his staff, he was selling us down the river. The S.O. #1 line implied otherwise but if "Look, don't listen!" was applied, it was easy to see that all the staff were receiving continuous Theta Breaks by being merely small cogs in LRH's game and never the main player in their own game. In fact their own game was made out Ethics to purse by the Organization.

I still feel that Expectation and Entitlement could be combined with the standard theta break auditing which you give above. Perhaps do the 2 way comm using the expectation and entitlement buttons first and then shift to your handling.

Okay Leon, thank you for coming through for us yet another time!!
Lakey

 

[Leon]

Expectation and Entitlement are both Effect viewpoints, and therefore have no relevance in getting a being out of the mud.

 

[lkwdblds]

I see one out of two.

Expectation and Entitlement are both Effect viewpoints, and therefore have no relevance in getting a being out of the mud.

To me Expectation is an effect viewpoint, one is expecting a certain outcome but he is not fully causing it. It seems to be composed of maybe three parts:
A. These actions ought to get the job done.
B. Let's wait and see what happens
C. Either, oh good, it worked out as I thought or Darn, it didn't work.

Entitilement seems to be more cause than effect:
A. I deserve whatever it is I want and if I don't get it there will be trouble.
B. By virtue of my being alive, I have certain things comming to me.

I agree that expectation is very passive but entitlement seems to be a really hot button. Sure, societies and governments decree and declare that people are entitled to medical care, vacations, time off, job tenure and all sorts of things but were does a living being get these concepts from. Most of us feel that we are entitled to respect, to be told the truth , to be treated fairly by others to be exchanged with fairly and things of this nature. How does this get wired into our cores? Where do these concepts come from? They don't seem to be societal but rather individual beings hold various entitlements as deeply held beliefs almost from birth. A deeper look into entitlements really intrigues me.
Lakey

 

[Leon]

These are all in the woof and warp of Ethics - a subject which LRH referred to but never , other than by mere tokenism, incorporated into Scientology. Mary Freeman did the major contribution there with her developments.

"Most of us feel that we are entitled to respect, to be told the truth, to be treated fairly by others to be exchanged with fairly and things of this nature." These are all the inflow of Ethical conduct across one's dynamics. They are not group mores - they are far more fundamental than that.

However, allowing oneself to go the effect of a violation of these principles is a personal out-ethics issue since one is being effect when one should be cause.

 

[FoTi]

A few points.

Thetans have a very strong innate sense of Justice. When that gets violated by another it usually sits not as "charge" in the bank but as a "theta" violation. Bill Robertson called these "Theta Breaks" instead of ARC breaks. They can't be "audited" in the normal sense, one has to simply indiscate the break and re-take one's own viewpoint that one had prior to the violation. It is really an Ethics matter, not a "case" matter. One abandoned a bit of one's own beingness when one went the effect of the violator. You are the lead player of your own game. Never are you a particle in someone else's game.

Remember that if it can be stated as a rule to be followed then it is in the realm of Morals, and not Ethics. Morals depend on group agreements within a particular game. Ethics is native to the being and transcends all games.


Furthermore: Duty - properly understood - is the highest of all motivations. And one's duty is always and only ever to one's juniors. Never to one's seniors. Wherever you are, in that position and in that role, you are the leader to those who follow you. Your duty is to them. Period.

Hope this helps.

This is very helpful. Thanks.