SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Welcome, Choicey!
The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
- Thread starter lkwdblds
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CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
this is a terrific post (by GoNuclear)
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=440953&postcount=102
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=440953&postcount=102
Last edited:
lkwdblds
Crusader
A couple of anecdotes to back this up.....
I have an l anecdote from the 70's backing that what GONucllear says is true as regards the maxim - A Staff Member is as valuable as the amount of money he can make for the C of S and thereby for Hubbard.
CASE I - CCLA CASHIER MARK A. - Kitty K. recruited Mark to replace her as Cashier shortly after she was named Treasury Sec at CCLA. Mark had no training or processing and was rough around the edges. He signed on for the standard rate for staff of $10 per week in 1972. Shortly after signing on, LRH came up with a program which paid a 10% bonuse to Org Cashiers for any Credit Collected Stat which they directly collected. Credit Collected was composed primarily of monies owed by staff on their Freeloader Debts.
Mark went after the credit collected stat like a tiger hunting its prey. He got a list from us in Treasury of all people owing the Org money and aggressively called them. He started collecting $1,000 here, $2,000 there, $500 here, etc.
He began to build up a reputation and then Yvonne announced one week that he had the highest Credit Collected Stat of any Cashier in the World. The Treasury Sec, Kitty, took note of this and looked at Mark as the Poster Boy of her division. For his pay, he would get his $10 plus his bonus and the bonus started to be $100 to $200 a week. I disbursed it to him and I began to think it was wrong. Why should he make ten to twenty times as much as the other staff,
FRINGE BENEFITS TO MARK - All staff were required to attend morning muster and to then be at their divisional muster right after breakfast. Also, all staff were required to attend study for 2 1/2 hours per day. Mark got his own apartment, "off campus" and stopped attending musters and he never did come to study at all. He would show up at the Org at 9:00 AM and sit in the Reg Office with Hector and would go home about 10.30 PM.
OVERTS HE COMMITTED - I had a Chevron Credit Card and they were offereing an electric calculator, which was a brand new item on the market for 1972, for $100. Mark wanted to see mine and after playing with it, he told me to order him one and he would reimburse me the $100. Though he was making about $200 a week, I never received a dime from him for 14 months
Mark took a week's liberty and I covered his post for him. A former staff, Tom J., called in asking for Mark and said that he was making weekly payments on his $2,500 debt but came into some money and wanted to pay it off. He had a few questions and I handled them and since he was in St. Louis, we discussed methods of payment. To wire the money to CCLA, he would have had to spend perhaps $15 and he did not want to do that unless the Org picked up the fee. I said that I did not have the authority to spend the Org's money like that so we agreed that he would mail the $2,500 check that day, maybe a Tuesday and it would arrive on Friday. He agreed as did I.
Mark returned from vacation Thursday morning. He asked me if anything was going on as far as Cashier cycles. I explained the Tom J. cycle and he said, bullshit with the mail, we needed to get the money in by 2:00 because it was Thursday, I am going to have him wire it and stop payment on his check. I then discussed the $250 commission and I told him that I was going to claim it because I handled the cycle while he was on leave. He said that was not fair because he had been working with the guy and all I did was take the order. I said, OK, how about a spilt, $125 each. He said hell no and then he said, "I will give you $50 for what you did, that is 5 weeks pay for you so you should take that offer." I accepted. He still had not paid me a dime for the $100 calculator so I said, why don't you give me $150 and wipe out your debt with me. He said that he had too many expenses that week and could not do that.
The money came in before 2:00 PM, Mark announced it to Yvonne, he had Tom deduct a fee of $5 to make it a cashier's check and $9 to Western Union for wiring the money so he reported collecting $2,486 and not $2,500. Technically, he did not have the authority to pay that $14 of the Org's money without getting an approved purchase order but he ignored those rules. When I was ordered to pay him $248.60, I had it in cash and started drawing off $50 for my cut and he said that he thought it over and felt it was all his cycle and all I did was handle a phone call meant for him and that I did not earn any commisiion. I wrote up a knowledge report to Ethics on this Cycle.
I talked to the Ethics Officer, Margaret George, and she said that since his stats were so high, he had Ethics Protection and she would do nothing but file my report. Kitty and Yvonne, heard from Ethics that I had written him up and both took me aside and told me never to write a report on an upstat again. I argued with Kitty and said the guy is out ethics and needs to be handled. She strongly disagreed,
In the meantime, there was a big push in the Org to make sure that all staff attended morning muster and went on course daily. Kitty ordered Mark to do those two things. Mark told her to fuck off. Actually, he came to muster one time, and he was very tired and wasted and said he could not be effective on post if he had to get up that early everyday and he refused to come again and he never went on study, not even once.
FINALLY THE LAST STRAW We were in 1973 now and he had been using the calculator for over a year and had never paid me a penny. Chevron sent a letter that unless I paid the bill, they would cancel my account. With interest and late fees, I had to pay about $115 so I paid them off.
Shortly after, Mark was working on a big cycle and he collected $7,000 from someone to clear their freeloader debt. He put in for a $700 commission. I got all the cash and put $585 of his in an envelope and kept $115 for myself. He opened his envelope and loudly protested that I had shorted him $115. I explained that I had just been forced to pay the credit company amd neeeded to be reimbursed. I enclosed copies of the bill and the receipt from Chevron. He said that I did not have the right to keep his money and I told him that he just earned $700 in one week, 16 months pay for me and that this debt needs to be settled. He said that he bought a new stereo system and speakers for his apartment and needed the full $700 this week because the stereo company was promised full payment. I refused to pay him. He walked out of my office, slamming the door, and went to see Yvonne. Within 30 minutes, I got a phone call ordering me to release the $115 to him. He then came in and picked it up. He had cooled down and said that if he had not promised payment to the stereo place, he would have payed me and he promised me he would pay soon. He never payed. I left for the Apollo.
When I was Programs Chief, I was Yvonne's senior and I wrote a report that Mark A. was out ethics and per policy, should be removed from finance lines until such time as he pays his debt to me and works out of his lower conditon. My Senior returned the letter to me undelivered, saying that I was not to use my post as a means of collecting my own private debt. I told her that is not the issue, the issue is CCLA has an out ethics guy, perhaps PTS, who is on finanace lines which is against policy. My senior insisted I not mail my letter and that was that. The Bottom Line was that if someone brought in money, all the policies and routine procedures were dropped to accomodate them. That is the sign of a sick organization!
I had another anecdote about a guy who was a drug dealer and had been dating my ex wife before I met her and before she joined Scn. The ED of the Org where she was wanted my ex wife to keep regging the drug dealer and he bought big packages in that particular org. No one told him to knock off drug dealing except my ex wife. The leaders of the Org had no problem regging the guy for packages, knowing full well that the money came from drug dealing. Getting the high stats and GI was their primary concern. They did not seem to care where the money came from. My wife also wanted to break off the 2D with him and the Org officials wanted her to wait until he paid for all the lower bridge at that Org. They said, "Stay with him until his gets his grades paid for here, then see how he does. If we get him all cleaned up, you may not want to break up with him but in any case, remain his 2D at least until you reg him for his gull expanded Grades. Even in '72, '73 and '75 and in three different Orgs, money trumped everything else, be it Ethics, following Policy, Code of Honor, Code of a Scientologist, etc.. for a guy who was perceived to bring in money, all rules and policies were thrown out.
Lakey
I have an l anecdote from the 70's backing that what GONucllear says is true as regards the maxim - A Staff Member is as valuable as the amount of money he can make for the C of S and thereby for Hubbard.
CASE I - CCLA CASHIER MARK A. - Kitty K. recruited Mark to replace her as Cashier shortly after she was named Treasury Sec at CCLA. Mark had no training or processing and was rough around the edges. He signed on for the standard rate for staff of $10 per week in 1972. Shortly after signing on, LRH came up with a program which paid a 10% bonuse to Org Cashiers for any Credit Collected Stat which they directly collected. Credit Collected was composed primarily of monies owed by staff on their Freeloader Debts.
Mark went after the credit collected stat like a tiger hunting its prey. He got a list from us in Treasury of all people owing the Org money and aggressively called them. He started collecting $1,000 here, $2,000 there, $500 here, etc.
He began to build up a reputation and then Yvonne announced one week that he had the highest Credit Collected Stat of any Cashier in the World. The Treasury Sec, Kitty, took note of this and looked at Mark as the Poster Boy of her division. For his pay, he would get his $10 plus his bonus and the bonus started to be $100 to $200 a week. I disbursed it to him and I began to think it was wrong. Why should he make ten to twenty times as much as the other staff,
FRINGE BENEFITS TO MARK - All staff were required to attend morning muster and to then be at their divisional muster right after breakfast. Also, all staff were required to attend study for 2 1/2 hours per day. Mark got his own apartment, "off campus" and stopped attending musters and he never did come to study at all. He would show up at the Org at 9:00 AM and sit in the Reg Office with Hector and would go home about 10.30 PM.
OVERTS HE COMMITTED - I had a Chevron Credit Card and they were offereing an electric calculator, which was a brand new item on the market for 1972, for $100. Mark wanted to see mine and after playing with it, he told me to order him one and he would reimburse me the $100. Though he was making about $200 a week, I never received a dime from him for 14 months
Mark took a week's liberty and I covered his post for him. A former staff, Tom J., called in asking for Mark and said that he was making weekly payments on his $2,500 debt but came into some money and wanted to pay it off. He had a few questions and I handled them and since he was in St. Louis, we discussed methods of payment. To wire the money to CCLA, he would have had to spend perhaps $15 and he did not want to do that unless the Org picked up the fee. I said that I did not have the authority to spend the Org's money like that so we agreed that he would mail the $2,500 check that day, maybe a Tuesday and it would arrive on Friday. He agreed as did I.
Mark returned from vacation Thursday morning. He asked me if anything was going on as far as Cashier cycles. I explained the Tom J. cycle and he said, bullshit with the mail, we needed to get the money in by 2:00 because it was Thursday, I am going to have him wire it and stop payment on his check. I then discussed the $250 commission and I told him that I was going to claim it because I handled the cycle while he was on leave. He said that was not fair because he had been working with the guy and all I did was take the order. I said, OK, how about a spilt, $125 each. He said hell no and then he said, "I will give you $50 for what you did, that is 5 weeks pay for you so you should take that offer." I accepted. He still had not paid me a dime for the $100 calculator so I said, why don't you give me $150 and wipe out your debt with me. He said that he had too many expenses that week and could not do that.
The money came in before 2:00 PM, Mark announced it to Yvonne, he had Tom deduct a fee of $5 to make it a cashier's check and $9 to Western Union for wiring the money so he reported collecting $2,486 and not $2,500. Technically, he did not have the authority to pay that $14 of the Org's money without getting an approved purchase order but he ignored those rules. When I was ordered to pay him $248.60, I had it in cash and started drawing off $50 for my cut and he said that he thought it over and felt it was all his cycle and all I did was handle a phone call meant for him and that I did not earn any commisiion. I wrote up a knowledge report to Ethics on this Cycle.
I talked to the Ethics Officer, Margaret George, and she said that since his stats were so high, he had Ethics Protection and she would do nothing but file my report. Kitty and Yvonne, heard from Ethics that I had written him up and both took me aside and told me never to write a report on an upstat again. I argued with Kitty and said the guy is out ethics and needs to be handled. She strongly disagreed,
In the meantime, there was a big push in the Org to make sure that all staff attended morning muster and went on course daily. Kitty ordered Mark to do those two things. Mark told her to fuck off. Actually, he came to muster one time, and he was very tired and wasted and said he could not be effective on post if he had to get up that early everyday and he refused to come again and he never went on study, not even once.
FINALLY THE LAST STRAW We were in 1973 now and he had been using the calculator for over a year and had never paid me a penny. Chevron sent a letter that unless I paid the bill, they would cancel my account. With interest and late fees, I had to pay about $115 so I paid them off.
Shortly after, Mark was working on a big cycle and he collected $7,000 from someone to clear their freeloader debt. He put in for a $700 commission. I got all the cash and put $585 of his in an envelope and kept $115 for myself. He opened his envelope and loudly protested that I had shorted him $115. I explained that I had just been forced to pay the credit company amd neeeded to be reimbursed. I enclosed copies of the bill and the receipt from Chevron. He said that I did not have the right to keep his money and I told him that he just earned $700 in one week, 16 months pay for me and that this debt needs to be settled. He said that he bought a new stereo system and speakers for his apartment and needed the full $700 this week because the stereo company was promised full payment. I refused to pay him. He walked out of my office, slamming the door, and went to see Yvonne. Within 30 minutes, I got a phone call ordering me to release the $115 to him. He then came in and picked it up. He had cooled down and said that if he had not promised payment to the stereo place, he would have payed me and he promised me he would pay soon. He never payed. I left for the Apollo.
When I was Programs Chief, I was Yvonne's senior and I wrote a report that Mark A. was out ethics and per policy, should be removed from finance lines until such time as he pays his debt to me and works out of his lower conditon. My Senior returned the letter to me undelivered, saying that I was not to use my post as a means of collecting my own private debt. I told her that is not the issue, the issue is CCLA has an out ethics guy, perhaps PTS, who is on finanace lines which is against policy. My senior insisted I not mail my letter and that was that. The Bottom Line was that if someone brought in money, all the policies and routine procedures were dropped to accomodate them. That is the sign of a sick organization!
I had another anecdote about a guy who was a drug dealer and had been dating my ex wife before I met her and before she joined Scn. The ED of the Org where she was wanted my ex wife to keep regging the drug dealer and he bought big packages in that particular org. No one told him to knock off drug dealing except my ex wife. The leaders of the Org had no problem regging the guy for packages, knowing full well that the money came from drug dealing. Getting the high stats and GI was their primary concern. They did not seem to care where the money came from. My wife also wanted to break off the 2D with him and the Org officials wanted her to wait until he paid for all the lower bridge at that Org. They said, "Stay with him until his gets his grades paid for here, then see how he does. If we get him all cleaned up, you may not want to break up with him but in any case, remain his 2D at least until you reg him for his gull expanded Grades. Even in '72, '73 and '75 and in three different Orgs, money trumped everything else, be it Ethics, following Policy, Code of Honor, Code of a Scientologist, etc.. for a guy who was perceived to bring in money, all rules and policies were thrown out.
Lakey
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RogerB
Crusader
Nice!
Nice, Ted.
This is a nice, sane post that should help folks.
In a perfect universe, all would be kind, act with impeccably good intent and execute precisely perfect communication. And in an even more perfect universe, none would have any case to get triggered and thus not get too upset by anything said or inferred by another.
But, we have our imperfections; we sometimes are inexact with our well-intentioned comm, and we oft react in unfortunate ways to others when no harm was meant or intended.
But even when there is ill will, as Ted says, the wise course is to "get over it." Particularly so if one has been exposing one's "all" and inviting comment . . . in such a scenario, one must realize errors in response are likely along with the occasional demonstration of ill will.
This board is not populated by perfect people
So don't expect perfection in handlings but instead be grateful when they are, for they are the moments to treasure and to learn from.
Ted's post above is one to be treasured.
Rog
Nice, Ted.
This is a nice, sane post that should help folks.
In a perfect universe, all would be kind, act with impeccably good intent and execute precisely perfect communication. And in an even more perfect universe, none would have any case to get triggered and thus not get too upset by anything said or inferred by another.
But, we have our imperfections; we sometimes are inexact with our well-intentioned comm, and we oft react in unfortunate ways to others when no harm was meant or intended.
But even when there is ill will, as Ted says, the wise course is to "get over it." Particularly so if one has been exposing one's "all" and inviting comment . . . in such a scenario, one must realize errors in response are likely along with the occasional demonstration of ill will.
This board is not populated by perfect people
So don't expect perfection in handlings but instead be grateful when they are, for they are the moments to treasure and to learn from.Ted's post above is one to be treasured.
Rog
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Nice, Ted.
This is a nice, sane post that should help folks.
In a perfect universe, all would be kind, act with impeccably good intent and execute precisely perfect communication. And in an even more perfect universe, none would have any case to get triggered and thus not get too upset by anything said or inferred by another.
But, we have our imperfections; we sometimes are inexact with our well-intentioned comm, and we oft react in unfortunate ways to others when no harm was meant or intended.
But even when there is ill will, as Ted says, the wise course is to "get over it." Particularly so if one has been exposing one's "all" and inviting comment . . . in such a scenario, one must realize errors in response are likely along with the occasional demonstration of ill will.
This board is not populated by perfect people
Ted's post above is one to be treasured.
Rog
Face
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
I have a new razor. It is a Gillette Fusion. It has four blades and battery powered microchip guided vibration. It gives a great shave.
But that isn't what I came here to talk about.
Some forty or more years ago, I read a column in the San Francisco Chronicle by Charles McCabe, that left a lasting impression on me. He wrote, then, that whenever the razor companies (Gillette, Schick, etc) introduce a new razor, they make the steel blades very measurably better than the normal blades. The newly introduced razor blades last four times longer than the old lines of blades. They intend for you to be amazed at the quality, and to decide to stay with the new improved variety. After awhile they lower the quality back down.
The moral of the story: if you find a newly introduced razor that you like, buy lots of the blades at the time of introduction. They last and last.
My new razor hasn't had its blade changed yet. It has been months, and it still gives a close shave.
But that isn't what I came here to talk about.
Some forty or more years ago, I read a column in the San Francisco Chronicle by Charles McCabe, that left a lasting impression on me. He wrote, then, that whenever the razor companies (Gillette, Schick, etc) introduce a new razor, they make the steel blades very measurably better than the normal blades. The newly introduced razor blades last four times longer than the old lines of blades. They intend for you to be amazed at the quality, and to decide to stay with the new improved variety. After awhile they lower the quality back down.
The moral of the story: if you find a newly introduced razor that you like, buy lots of the blades at the time of introduction. They last and last.
My new razor hasn't had its blade changed yet. It has been months, and it still gives a close shave.
RogerB
Crusader
Too late you bloody tell me this!
Ain'tcha noticed I gave up using them silly things . . . beside, my sweet Virginia likes my soft whiskers better than my old stubble.
R
AnonKat
Crusader
I do not think they will become Ex-Scientologists if that is your aim. I do however believe that they do not want the abuses to continue.
I can ask them but I can't tell somebody to do something.
I once made a post onthere that anybody with information on your brother should get in contact with you. could email me and I would relay it. It got posted but nothing came of it sad to say.
as for Mike Rinder he is expieriencing disconnectionn every day having family memers and even his nmother in the cult.
Rathbun is experiencing church-harrasment and lost a friend that commited suïcede on the freewinds. Complete Anti Marty sites are devoted to him online.
Best to hope for is for them to make many TV expieriences and for Mike Rinder swaying Rathbun to his viewpoints although it may not the wake up you might desire.
Jason Beghe is a good Influence on Rathbun.
Church must be dismanteled but there will always be scientologists
It's reality. As I se it they are instrumental in getting people who are still scientologist to demand their IAS money back and hopefully speak up in support of people who are wronged by the COS.
I will relay your message though.
Markus
Silver Meritorious Patron
Hubbard was and is causing the abuses....
Why are you not able to see this Anonkat? Are you part of Martys or should I say Hubbards propaganda machine?
Marty is NOT helping people out. He is preventing them from waking up from Hubbards mind manipulation. Not the church needs to be dismanteled but the mechanisms Hubbard used to imprison people in their own mind.
Best
Markus
Why are you not able to see this Anonkat? Are you part of Martys or should I say Hubbards propaganda machine?
Marty is NOT helping people out. He is preventing them from waking up from Hubbards mind manipulation. Not the church needs to be dismanteled but the mechanisms Hubbard used to imprison people in their own mind.
Best
Markus
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
No need to shave!
Very handsome beard, Roger! I like the cookie duster, too!
Too late you bloody tell me this!
Ain'tcha noticed I gave up using them silly things . . . beside, my sweet Virginia likes my soft whiskers better than my old stubble.
R
Very handsome beard, Roger! I like the cookie duster, too!
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Turf Battle!
You nut! In your dreams, Pal! What is this, The Outer Limits???
So Cal Rules! O.K., except for Mt. Shasta, parts of the Central Coast and the Gilroy Garlic Festival, which rocks!
But we gots grunion runs, In and Out burgers (animal style da bomb!) Catalina Island and Disneyland. Top that, you Yankee!
You nut!
In your dreams, Pal! What is this, The Outer Limits???So Cal Rules! O.K., except for Mt. Shasta, parts of the Central Coast and the Gilroy Garlic Festival, which rocks!
But we gots grunion runs, In and Out burgers (animal style da bomb!
) Catalina Island and Disneyland. Top that, you Yankee!
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Yes, well my avoidance of a career in diplomacy was intentional.
Mark A. Baker
LOL!!!
AnonKat
Crusader
Ever tried to talk sense into Creationists ? It is a bit Simular. It is like Don Quichotte fighting windmills. I am not going to waiste my time on that. If they devellop into a group like the Freezone that is fine by me.
Pushing to hard will not make people wake up but will onley dig there heels in deeper. One does alsoo not go tell a Muslim his prophet muhamed was a pervert. LRH is like their Prophet.
Main things that remain are to dismantel the Church and get the abuse stopped.
One thing at a time. IIf your aims go beyond mine I wish you all the luck in the world.
I understand that you want it all gone. That is an impossible task.
dchoiceisalwaysrs
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you for the welcome SweetnessandLight
SweetnessandLight
Crusader
Not in my Universe! I'm with Marcus on this one.
Markus
Silver Meritorious Patron
You still do not understand - right now you are on the other side - the Martyans trapped you allready. The real enemy is L. Ron Hubbard - only if we manage to dismantle his trap, the mechanisms of mental manipulation we have a chance to win this fight against this evil man.
Best
Markus
AnonKat
Crusader
The man is dead, better focus on how theo bring the church down for abuse and breaking the law and being down right creepy.
brb cleaning my flying saucer
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
I, too, stand with Markus...for Uwe and the others.
We are all Spartacus!
Face
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