The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[SweetnessandLight]

Thank You!

Lrn2Google, as they say.

Drop >>>site:forum.exscn.net "the final rundown"<<< (remember the quote marks) into a Google web search box and all will be revealed.

Paul

Thank you Paul, I will Google it! I was also creating an opening for Dart to tell us more about it, about that time or his experience or thoughts and feelings about it now, from his present perspective... if he has anything else to say...(Dart will recognize this Aikido reference! )

 

[freet43]

I, too, would love to see a write up by Dart.

I am aware of 3 OTVIII versions - the original that was released by LRH, the current CoS "new OT VIII". and a version that somehow exists in the FZ as the "real" OTVIII....

Does anyone have more info?

I have not seen any of them - but have good friends that have done the various versions...

Marina

QUOTE=SweetnessandLight;455937]Oooh, Dart! If you have not yet written up this part of your story, please do so and share it with us here? Pretty please? Or, if you have already done so, please point us to it. Thank you!

Just to make sure that I understand you clearly, you are referring to the Hubbard handwritten details of "The Final Rundown", which were never released and were destroyed, as the concepts being "well covered by Alan in his book, 'God's in Disguise', and you were not referring to the earlier posting by Roger of Alan's "The Evolution of a Power Technology".

No need to comment if I am correct, but please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you! [/QUOTE]

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Johnny Raff Video clip!

Well, as I said before...heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer's Johnny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgddMFN1vbs

 

[Blue Spirit]

Thank You

So glad, dear Blue Spirit, to hear this, especially after your prior bad experience. Hope all is healed and made whole again, sounds like you are well on your way!

We all need validation and helpful friends! Thank you, John and Roger!

Thank you for the acknowledgment !

I've got a long way to go, but at least I've found the road.

And that is after having my hands stamped on by the guy outside the "Church"
while hanging from the edge of the cliff, similar to the movie "Deliverance".
He was thrown out of ASHO about 1970, but like Ron never decided to confront the Evil side of his case, and assumed Ron's valence to add more insanity.

Who was it that one day said Earth is only a drill for what is to come ?

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Celestial Kinderarten...

Thank you for the acknowledgment !

I've got a long way to go, but at least I've found the road.

And that is after having my hands stamped on by the guy outside the "Church"
while hanging from the edge of the cliff, similar to the movie "Deliverance".
He was thrown out of ASHO about 1970, but like Ron never decided to confront the Evil side of his case, and assumed Ron's valence to add more insanity.

Who was it that one day said Earth is only a drill for what is to come ?

I tend to think of it as kindergarten, actually. We learn not to hit or bite, to be nice to others, to listen, to share and play together nicely, etc.

Really, given what you went through, you are doing just great! I'm so proud of you for not giving up, and caving in. I think that other person who "stamped" (very apt image!) wanted to keep you down and dependent on him. Didn't work, did it?

Yes, you really are on your way now because you are helping others! That is a sure sign to me, of healing, recovery and well being!

 

[lkwdblds]

An important letter from an admirer of our thread

Fisherman, a very fine and intelligent person is not an ex Scientologist but a frequent poster on various threads on this board. He is conducting academic research on L Ron Hubbard and Scientology.

Below he gives his opinioin of we here on this thread. Also, he provides the first inkling of what an INDEX for this thread would look like should the thread be put into book form. Lastly, Fisherman pays some personal compliments Face, Robert Vaughn Young and yours truly. On a post after this he also has compliments for Ted and Carmelo. Many of our "top cats' are not mentioned, the most obvious of which is Roger but not being an ex and not believing much in "tech", perhaps Roger's full brilliance escaped Fisherman's notice.

WE ARE WORLD CLASS ON THIS THREAD! Fisherman is an academic and he is bowled over by the breath, depth and scope of our analyses and the quality level of our posts which ranges from "professional" to brilliant to even "genius" on some occassions. The quality level is my personal opinion. I will take credit for "professional" and "brilliant", the genius ones have been done by others. The Magic Thetan may have written a genius post for his OP. How would anything but genius generate 4,000 hits in its first two days on ESMB where 250 hits per day is considered very good. 8 times better than very good could only be caused by a "genius" level post, right??


Lakey,

There's a conundrum that motivated my previous post I'd like to explain.

I spent five or six hours, yesterday, reading the "Aboard the Apollo" thread and sauntered through about 1500 posts. All that time, I was impressed by the level of discourse and dazzled by the range of topics discussed. What struck me more than anything is my own consternation. I'm not quite sure how to express this, but, simply put,

I didn't detect any hint of intellectual inferiority to LRH. To the contrary, in numerous areas, the level of education and experience surpass Mr. Hubbard. Here's what I found y'all discussing with more cogency than I've detected in Mr. Hubbard's writing:

Organizational structure and management, covering Peter Drucker, Edward Demming, Terrence Deal, etc.
Marketing and management (including Lakey's timeless ideas on creating customer value).
Capital investment and business finance.
Classical music and opera. Signifances in pop music.
Personal investment and household economy, with references to Thomas Paine.
Pedagogy, formal vs practical.
Child rearing and development, Aspergers Syndrome, Dr. Spock, forms of discipline, corporal punishment.
Historic Meteors and astronomy.
Psychology, personality disorders, aberrant narcissism.
Classic television, theme song origins
Automotive design, performance, quality control, and history
Leadership, personal performance, group psychology and motivation.
World demographics and income distribution
Civil Liberty, Constitution, 1st ammendment, establishment, ACLU
Banking, credit defaults, monetary policy,
On and on and on and on...

It's not my intention to flatter, but I could extend this list interminably. And while I have no special fondness for LRH, it's also not my goal to knock him arbitrarily. It's always my intention to describe what something looks like, on its face, from an outsider's perspective.

What flummoxes me here (and has since 2007) is that so many ex-scientologists appear to have intellectual gifts superior to LRH. Face describes Mary Sue as better educated and manifesting greater acumen. I don't doubt it. Robert Vaughn Young's involvement in scientology has likewise surprised me.

My perplexity is rather simple. I find myself reading intelligent, incisive commentary on diverse sophisticated topics from folks like yourself and then come across something like Hubbard's "Science of Knowledge" or "History of Man." The disconnect is staggering. I just don't have a level of cognitive dissonance to bridge that gap.

When those same perspicacious posters laud a brilliance in Mr. Hubbard that I can't demonstrate in any text I've found, it's very confusing. Let me put it this way: If we were all at a party together (and I knew nothing about Scientology) I would naturally gravitate toward Lakey and Face's corner and make an effort to avoid Mr. Hubbard, just on the basis of conversation.

Of course, your experience of LRH is greater than mine, but from what evidence I can assess, I just don't see where LRH had an intellectual "leg up" on those that surrounded him. I'm not trying to belittle LRH, this is honestly how it looks to me.

fisherman

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Hi Fishy! Glad you have joined us here on the aboard the Apollo thread!

Honey, from what I hear Ron had charisma, imagination and charm, was a good storyteller, and he sure knew how to work people.

His lack of intellectualism is evident to me from all the taped lectures I listened to, I never met him, but some very bright people have been caught up in playing his game...for a while, at least. You will notice that all of these brilliant and lovely beings here left COS...one way or another, and are Exes...some have been out for decades...some more recently.

Go back and read over the concept of a "mystery sandwich" elsewhere, that is the way many really bright people might be intrigued enough by parts of the subject to allow themselves to be trapped for awhile.

Thanks for acknowledging us here...feel free to jump in the pool, the water's fine!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Good for you!

"My perplexity is rather simple. I find myself reading intelligent, incisive commentary on diverse sophisticated topics from folks like yourself and then come across something like Hubbard's "Science of Knowledge" or "History of Man." The disconnect is staggering. I just don't have a level of cognitive dissonance to bridge that gap.
-fisherman"

This is why you would not get stuck in the trap for long, even if you wanted to "look into Scientology for yourself" as I did. I took a good long look, didn't really like what I saw, and never drank the kool-aide. There was just never enough good there to outweigh the bad for me to ever get too deeply involved with it. I assume there are tons of people like this. COS is a mindbending cult, and some of us just refuse to play that game...once we see it for what it is (no offense to anyone who once chose or still chooses to play that game, you are free to choose it). Some of us just see it sooner than others. An intolerance for cognitive dissonance has MUCH to do with this!

 

[Infinite]

Well, as I said before...heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer's Johnny!

I can't wait to hear about his encounter with the alien ET who nick named him Strawberry.

 

[lkwdblds]

I copy and pasted Fisherman's post here

Sweetness, I copied and pasted Fisherman's post on this thread. He originally sent it to me in an exchange we had on The Magic Thetan's OP.

Anyway, he reads here from time to time which is obvious from his copied post and you made some very good points in reply to his post.
Lakey

Hi Fishy! Glad you have joined us here on the aboard the Apollo thread!

Honey, from what I hear Ron had charisma, imagination and charm, was a good storyteller, and he sure knew how to work people.

His lack of intellectualism is evident to me from all the taped lectures I listened to, I never met him, but some very bright people have been caught up in playing his game...for a while, at least. You will notice that all of these brilliant and lovely beings here left COS...one way or another, and are Exes...some have been out for decades...some more recently.

Go back and read over the concept of a "mystery sandwich" elsewhere, that is the way many really bright people might be intrigued enough by parts of the subject to allow themselves to be trapped for awhile.

Thanks for acknowledging us here...feel free to jump in the pool, the water's fine!

 

[lkwdblds]

You never got into Scientology but.......

"My perplexity is rather simple. I find myself reading intelligent, incisive commentary on diverse sophisticated topics from folks like yourself and then come across something like Hubbard's "Science of Knowledge" or "History of Man." The disconnect is staggering. I just don't have a level of cognitive dissonance to bridge that gap.
-fisherman"

This is why you would not get stuck in the trap for long, even if you wanted to "look into Scientology for yourself" as I did. I took a good long look, didn't really like what I saw, and never drank the kool-aide. There was just never enough good there to outweigh the bad for me to ever get too deeply involved with it. I assume there are tons of people like this. COS is a mindbending cult, and some of us just refuse to play that game...once we see it for what it is (no offense to anyone who once chose or still chooses to play that game, you are free to choose it). Some of us just see it sooner than others. An intolerance for cognitive dissonance has MUCH to do with this!

Sweetness, you never got in to Scientology but you sure got a lot out of ex Scientology, building a whole life for yourself as a respected ex Scientologist. Just think of all the money you saved by not getting in, while here on the board, you can obtain all the wisdom you need by participating in our panel discussions. You made things go right in your approach to Scientologly and its place in your life. Well one!
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Thank You!

Thanks, Lakey, for the ack and for clarifying! No need for him to be shy about joining in with us and asking questions, he can keep up with us, and he'll learn a lot about the old days, tech evolution, etc! It's all good!

I am really glad and grateful to be able to be in comm with everyone here. I mean that from the bottom of my heart!

Thank You Lakey for starting this great thread! And to all the posters and readers who co-create it daily!

 

[The Magic Thetan]

IN DOUBT

[quote="RogerB, post: 455764"]John,

The response to your first post on this and other threads reminded me of an important piece of tech written by Alan that I will post here now.

It speaks for itself, though I must say, in the inimitable Alan Walter way :D  Be prepared for some complex sentences :p

Hi Rog....

:wink2: Thank you for all of the beautiful Allen Walter Tech, We were close friends at one time, and the material was of real value for it harmonizes with many things I learned in the decades that followed my declare.

I wrote and posted this reply to you, but as I cannot find it on the site, it may not have been submitted. So I am doing it again.

:confused2: I am in doubt as to whether to post anything else on the ESMB site.

My prime purpose in posting was to entertain people into a better life. I even imagined the possibility of sharing things that people could use to have a wonderful life.

My secondary purpose was just to have the fun of telling my story.

Well it appears that I have instigated a hell of a mess.

It further appears that I have really enturbulated a number of people, and I am really pissed off with myself for my stupidity and naivete.

At first I thought that my ability to be of value would be enhanced if I related some of the wonderful OT experiences I was blessed with. Well I was dead wrong about that.

I also felt that if I let people know that Ron had me do some OT research, that would make it easier to be of value, Dead wrong again.

Finally, I thought that if I let people know that Ron had me go in and audit some people out of the messes they had been orchestrated into in the orgs, that this would motivate people to take a look at the things that had worked for me. Three strikes, and I’m out.

After twenty five years of being out of communication with Scientologists, I was delighted to again connect with people who I thought would want to regain their ability to vanish the things they did not want and materialize the things they did want.

I had so loved being able to help people achieve their dreams at a ten dollar “Sunday Night Live” event.

I remembered the people who said they had gotten more out of the ten dollar event, than they did out of several very expensive intensives of NOT’s.

That was a thrill for me, and that was the effect I wanted to create on ESMB for free. (No ten dollar fee)

Well I fucked up.

I seem to have instigated a “War of Viewpoints” and “An Ego War“, and I do not want to submit my story if it is going to cause people to war with each other.

I have never done well when I do something that someone uses to upset themselves or others. I still have case in that area, I am not comfortable creating any kind of negative effect,

When I reconnected with some Scientologists a couple of months ago, I got real excited, and pretty emotional, about the idea that I was back in communication with people I had loved so much. In fact, if you read the posts, some took shots of me for being emotional in the 4th of July video that was a part of several postings. Although I was told to get a think skin, my think skin cream has not worked worth a damn.

It took me decades to get over the fact that hundreds of people who I had loved and helped completely cut communication with me when I was declared. I thought I had come to terms with that and was at peace about it. However, it seems that I am still reactive to the idea of being forcefully separated from the people I love. I have always been a very emotionally sensitive, “Chick Film Loving” slob,

Next month will be the one year anniversary of my beloved wife’s death. For three and a half years, I practically destroyed myself because I could not permanently do things that cause her intense pain, suffering and cancer to go away. After her death, I orchestrated myself into a depression so deep I did not know I was depressed. Then, after about four months, I began writing a book entitled, “The Joys of Deep Depression” and gradually I wrote myself out of my self created mess by discovering all of the ways in which I used my unlimited OT powers to destroy myself.

I then emerged into a state grander than ever before.

For over ten years I had been a Tensor channel who could communicate with any OT ET in the universe. After Carolyn’s death, I could not even contact her, which was unheard of for me. However, when I got myself out of the mess, I was better than ever.

It was then that I began to write “The Johnny Raff Chronicles” and focus once again on the magical life I have been blessed with. (The whole story is written up in Chronicle Number - 7, that I had planned to post on ESMB, after number 6.)

Then BLUE SPIRIT invited me to put the Chronicles on ESMB. At first I didn’t want to do it. It didn’t feel right. (I should have listened to that feeling.)

Then I fell into the self created trap of thinking that the Chronicles would bring joy, happiness, good feelings and love, to the people who read them on ESMB. Unfortunately, I have never been able to resist the delicious anticipation of people basking in the glory of the life they want.

So on to ESMB I went, and the shit hit every fan in the universe.

Some smiled, but many launched themselves into viewpoint and ego wars,.

For a while it seemed that I was able to entice some of them out of the wars. Then, when the “You did OT Research and trouble shooting for Ron? PROVE IT!!! stuff came out, the fans got completely clogged with the negative, failed purpose, evil Church, impossible to be OT shit.

:confused2: So I am in doubt as to what to do.

So for now I will just say thanks for the data Roger. I am going to sit on the side lines for a while, and try to figure out what to do next.

I have made this an open post to see how people choose to respond to this one.

Regardless of whether I ever post another word, it has been a pure pleasure to feel the presence and love of you and your wife again. And it has been a pure pleasure to bask in the wisdom, love and intelligence of those I acknowledged as we went along.

Wishing you what you wish for yourself.

Love

Johnny
The Not So Magic Thetan

 

[Leon]

Johnny, stay the course. Don't please don't deviate from your original intention. Sure there are a lot of oddballs around here. Learn to ignore them as the rest of us did and just keep going. The yapping on the sidelines is of no importance and of no value to anyone. Your reports are of great GREAT value to those of us who do share yor purposes and strive to attain what you already have.

PPPUUULLLEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZEEE ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Regardless of whether I ever post another word, it has been a pure pleasure to feel the presence and love of you and your wife again. And it has been a pure pleasure to bask in the wisdom, love and intelligence of those I acknowledged as we went along.

Wishing you what you wish for yourself.

Love 

Johnny
[/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGjxiJOye3Y

 

[lkwdblds]

Whose playing the bigger game now?

Who's Fringe and Who's Mainstream? Who's Playing a Minor Game and who is playing the Bigger Game?

When I arrived on ESMB a year and a half ago, in February, 2009, I believed this Message Board was interesting but it was a relatively minor game when contrasted with the huge game Miscavige and the C of S were playing!

They were dealing worldwide with 100's of thousands of people, spending tens of millions of dollars while we, the disgruntled few, were not spending any money and our carping complaints only reached a few hundred, maybe a few thousand, disgruntled souls.

We were as cur dogs, yipping at the feet of mightly Corporate Scientology. My God! what a difference a year and a half can be when it comes to a being changing his point of view. We are now dealing in the 5,000's and 10,000's as far as numbers of people reached and are moving into the 100,000's. In actuality, despite their claim of 10 million adherents, they deal only in the 10,000's themselves. Just look at the solo NOTs HGC, only about 5,200 people in the entire world registered on Solo NOTs and of those only about 3,100 not red tagged and of those, less than 2,000 actually auditing with good indicators and in high volume.

Yes, they still have a lot of money at their disposal but two things about that: First, most of the money is the result of out exchange, taking donations or large advanced payments and then not delivering a superlative product and Second, their expenses are high, especially their legal expenses.

THEIR GAME - "REMEMBERING THE STORY OF THE BOY WHO CRIED WOLF" - HOW MANY TIMES CAN THEY CRY WOLF AND STILL HAVE THEIR PUBLIC TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY? That is the game they are playing. When I was in they cried wolf maybe 25 times and all 25 times, people believed them and rallied to their cause. Somewhere between the 40th and 50th cry for wolf, some of the cries of wolf began to be ignored. Now after all these years, they continue to cry wolf but nobody but a few die hards are listening!

ALL THEY CAN DO IS REFORMAT AND RECYCLE, THE SAME OLD STUFF, ENDLESSLY REFORMATTED USUALLY UNDER FALSE PRETEXTS AND RECYCLED OVER AND OVER TO THE SAME DIEHARDS The few diehards who can afford these "services" are mostly senior citizens now, such as yours truly, Lakey.

All they can dispense are the teachings of one man, a man whom many consider brilliant and a great Savant, to be sure, but whom many others consider was a complete charlatan. This man, no matter how brilliant or not brilliant he actually was (or still is) has been totally exposed as not at all being averse to telling non truths as if they were truths. Blue Spirit, I am glad that he has changed and has continued to evolve spiritually and admits the last years of his life were a "train wreck".

The veracity of those claims is not relevant to my posts because of two reasons besides the obvious reason that Blue's claims will not be taken seriously by many people. The first of the other reasons, is that the C of $ has not acknowledged that LRH is once again able to be communicated with and they are practicing only his old harmful poliicies and do not acknowledge the new, cleaned up, more truthful and benevolent version of LRH as "Source"

The second other reason is that though LRH may have gotten himself cleaned up as Blue asserts, LRH has not made that known broadly and has to date made no effort to do any ammends to the beings he has harmed nor to work up any conditions or repent and make up any damages. Perhaps, Blue will be his medium to get this process moving, I don't know.

Getting back on point, we are growing in numbers and in resources and , as stated in Fisherman's post, our combined resources are more vast and varied than those of just LRH alone. We encourage people to formulate their own ideas and then share them with us and as a result we are all moving up. We are exchanging in extreme abundance, gladly relaying anything and everything we know to anyone who wants it and without any monetary compensation.

COMMING FULL CIRCLE - I now feel in all good conscience that playing the game of this thread in particular and ESMB in general is a bigger and more important game than the game played by DM and C of S staff and public. DM and his minions, even though some of them are well intended, are just as cur dogs yipping at our heels. THE GAME OF LYING, COMMITTING CONTINUOUS OUT EXCHANGE WITH PUBLIC AND STAFF, AND RECYCLING THE SAME OLD DIEHARDS OVER AND OVER ad nauseum, through the same old courses, REFORMATTED ENDLESSLY OVER AND OVER ad nauseum is a dead end game. The leaders, LRH and then DM cried wolf over and over. The public heeded LRH's cries when he was living amongst us and at first heeded DM's cries but somewhere along the line, there were just too many lies and exposures of truths and finally the leader, now just DM, cried wolf just one time too many and FINALLY after decades and decades people have stopped heeding his cries of Wolf and those cries arer now going unanswered,
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Not to worry!

Raffy John, honey, it's all o.k. It really is!

I can share this viewpoint about what you have to say here:

"I seem to have instigated a “War of Viewpoints” and “An Ego War“, and I do not want to submit my story if it is going to cause people to war with each other."

This so-called ego war of viewpoints has been going on since way before you got here, and it will continue for some time to come. Scientology is a very divisive subject! Many people have been so badly hurt that their feelings are raw. Your experience is your experience. You haven't really hurt or harmed anybody here by writing about it and your recollections of your days "in" Scientology.

I too, have a very thin skin, and have been chewed up and spat out by more than one poster here...it's not pleasant, but it's not the end of anybody's world either, if folks don't like me or don't agree with what I have to say, or my attitude rubs them the wrong way.

The same is true for you.

I stay because I have really made friends here, and because I am still learning about the nature of Life, Love and the Universe, the learning of which is something that I value more than anything else, and because I perceive that I might just be able to help somebody sometime.

I know that you are someone who loves to help others too, as are most of the regular posters on this thread...I think this is the "real" glue that holds us together despite all our diversity and different viewpoints. (Pssst-that and the surfing!) I also think all of our collective "Spiritual Teammates" are assisting us in forwarding the "project" of this thread! Yeah, I experience them and I'm not afraid to say so!!!

You do have friends here John, it may just take a little time for you to locate them! I am here for one, and there is Lakey and Blue Spirit. I am sure there are others, as well. Grant us time to get to know each other.

Be the big being that you are, and don't take any criticism of your words too personally, or let it cause you to shut yourself down! I don't see that you have manifested harming anybody here, at all. It's good to be aware that our words have effect on people, but don't edit yourself into silence! What you have to share is important. It will help people to see the subject of Scientology more clearly.

I want to encourage you to stay. We all "re-stimulate" each other all the time, and it's just a part of the life process of learning, growing and healing. It's not a big sin in the world outside of COS. I like to think of us as rocks being tumbled about together by the flow of a mighty river, after a while, we become beautiful smooth stones. All the rough edges get chipped off or polished away.

Don't feel that you have to share anything earth-shattering to make an impression on us...the energy of your being, that you are kind and care about helping people comes through loud and clear, and people will be curious about your life experiences and want to learn more about you, as they get to know you. Let people get to know you a little more, and then telling your story will go more easily.

You do have a perspective based on your own personal experiences that is unique, and I know many of us want to hear your story. We love personal stories around here! Everyone has a piece of Scientology history, and I know yours can be a valuable contribution, because you worked with Ron directly and have not spoken of it publicly yet.

My heartfelt condolences on the passing of your beloved wife. It's very human to feel survivor's guilt after the passing of a loved one, I have grappled with it myself. It eases with time, and for you, it hasn't even been a year yet. In my personal experience, as well as by observation of others, the first year...with all the firsts of important dates and holidays without them is by far the hardest, so John, please be patient with yourself, and be kind to yourself. The worst year is almost behind you.

Be patient with the people here too...all of us are wounded in our own personal ways (the human condition), and many of us are conscious of being here to help each other to heal, while healing ourselves as well.

You haven't harmed anybody by posting here, not really. Many of the drama queens on the board enjoy getting all excited! They really do! They import drama from other websites sometimes, if things get too boring for them! I won't name any names, but some of them I like very much! Don't allow yourself to be disturbed or harmed either, by anything that anybody posts here.

Please continue with your story whenever you feel comfortable doing so. If it feels easier, just have fun being here for awhile, surf around on the threads and get to know some of the members here, and what's being discussed. Believe me, it's all over the map!

If you like, just play for awhile John, have some fun with being here...you are still a newbie, and there is no particular way to do it right. It's a process of getting to know people, and letting yourself be known.

You can do it, and let there be some joy in the doing!

Much Love from Sweetness

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Hey Carmellow, I knew the stunt man who did that gag under the wagon with all the horses hoofs thundering around his head! Loren Janes, a very spiritual guy! and a great gag artist!

 

[thetanic]

John, a friend of mine called ESMB and ARS places where there were people with "Stuck Attention Units." To some extent, this is true.

There are people here who never liked one thing in Scientology (and were never in), and never will.

There are people here who have become anti-Scientologists.

There are people here who still use some of the tech. They may or may not call themselves Scientologists.

There are very few people here who still are hard-line Scientologists.

 

[Leon]

There are actually not all that many ex-scientologists here. Most never were scientologists in the first place.

They are merely ex-CofSists, which is a very different thing to an ex-scientologist.