The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Mark A. Baker]

My great great grandfather was the first GRINGO HONKY HAOLE governor of California; AND, he didn't have an Austrian accent.

Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

NAH! Pico was Mexican!

Pico was a Californio of mixed ancestry and the last governor of the territory of Alta Californio, i.e. what you know of as California. History here did not begin with the u.s. occupation.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

MAB, are you serious about California being occupied territory?

Yes. John C. Fremont was a spy sent by the u.s. war department on a mission to destabilize Alta California and build support for a "justified" u.s. intervention. It was part of the u.s. policy of territorial expansion in fullfilment of "manifest destiny". The records acknowledging this were released in the 20th century.

Later a similar trick was pulled in Hawaii to eliminate the monarchy and acquire Hawaii as a replenishment station for u.s. naval vessels.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

That is how James Irvine got a hold of South County. It was normal to put up land in a marriage and it would be returned after.
Theodico Yorba was not the best businessman and somehow allowed the groom to keep the land which he sold to James Irvine.

I forget the details but actually there were 3 families that Irvine swindled to acquire his sheep ranch. There was a great deal of land fraud which occurred in California after the u.s. "acquisition" involving newcomers dispossessing established families, all supported by the u.s. government.


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTg7PUSVidI&

Carmelo, that's awful!!!

 

[FoTi]

I was just thinking the same thing this week. I reminded myself though of just how long I'd been out already. I think it took me longer than most to recover. I can choose the platitudes I go by now. I'm looking at some of my favorite ones on my wall which I've clipped from Roger's posts. The present one reminding me that if I inhibit my create I end up living with someone else's create.

Yeh, that's a good one to remember. Thanks Roger.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Carmelo, that's awful!!!

Man, I've got to get a faster internet connection. I missed Carmelo's motorcycle vid. That IS terrible. Was it for real?

 

[Hatshepsut]

I forget the details but actually there were 3 families that Irvine swindled to acquire his sheep ranch. There was a great deal of land fraud which occurred in California after the u.s. "acquisition" involving newcomers dispossessing established families, all supported by the u.s. government.


Mark A. Baker

Oh What A History California

I think the Spanish were just as bad with one another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_3NyB8-rC0

 

[Sharone Stainforth]

i cannot let this go any further, I've had enough, Hell, Iv'e had more than enough.

Aboard the Apollo 1973, now what was that? The Apollo space ship or the Apollo Space ship? Were You in present time or in L. Ron Hubbards time? Which?

Were you on the RPF, the RPFs RPF or on fucking drugs?

You don't fool me.

 

[lkwdblds]

Lots of agreement, one big disagreement.

feel it's occupied territory right now

Don Bernardo Yorba had at first a Spanish land grant that was rather large. When Mexico got it's independence, The Mexican land grant was about 250,000 acres from the Santa Ana river at the beach ( yes, where the gay waves are at the jetty) up to Riverside and out to Menifee.

When California became a state, He got taxed and had to dump all the land we know as Southern Cal for two cents and acre.

There goes my birthright.



Where did you read this? There is a book out there called "Alamos Our California Ancestors" that documents the early settlers and what they were like.

I am not sure! I toured Mission San Luis Rey in North San Diego county a few years ago and I believe it might have been mentioned by the tour guide. It is either that or I read it on the internet early this year. I will Google it and find the source out for you. When I heard this, I was shocked. I had always figured that the Spanish founded the Missions and that the Mexican upheld their tradition as Missions to convert Indians to Christianity. I remember my absolute shock when I was told that the Mexicans did not use them for Churches but that they were garrisons. Once the became part of the USA, the Catholic Church in the USA got control of them and converted them back to missions. This is what I learned, it needs to be verified.

Another relative also documented in Alamos, was a soldier who walked with Junipero Serra as they founded the missions.
On one expedition, they were looking for Monterey. They had vague instructions that were a hundred years old and walked right past it.
They were looking for a large bay and a big mountain.
They founded San Francisco when they came upon a LARGE bay and a BIG mountain.

Don't forget, Father Serra did his work when Alta Californica was part of Spain and not part of Mexico.

There was always a soldiers barracks at the missions. In the San Francisco expedition, there were four soldiers who walked up the coast.



It was neither government that "developed" California. It was all of the Spanish Ranchers and settlers who married into the families.

I can't accept your first sentemce above. Perhaps we are using deferent meanings for the word "devloped" of "infrastructure". The Spanish Ranchers and settlers granted land by the Spanish played an important role in the history of Alta California but the United States Government plus the State of Califonia developed the infrastructure of the State. Development did not really get under way until the Gold Rush in 1849.

By infrastructure I mean things such as bringing in the railways, the highways, the telegraph lines, the port facitlities for shipping of the larger ports, the air ports, the colleges and Universities, the damns, the National Park System, the manufacturing facilities, the cultural facilities, etc.

That is how James Irvine got a hold of South County. It was normal to put up land in a marriage and it would be returned after.
Theodico Yorba was not the best businessman and somehow allowed the groom to keep the land which he sold to James Irvine.

Comparing Alta California to Baja California, which was left under Mexican Control, Alta California's infrastructure was very higly developed while Baja's was not. Part of this may have to do with Baja's being mostly desert while Alta is much larger and has much more potential as to development.

ON BEING OCCUPIED TERRITORY - To me, a country being occupied by another indicates that a more powerful country militarily, became an agressor and attacked a weaker country solely to take over that country and add it to there empire. The citizens in the conquered country are the majority of the population and they are held prisoners in their own country being forced to subordinate their own culture to the culture of the victorious country while not having the full rights of citizenship which the members of the conquering country enjoy.

To me, I see the USA's seizure of about half of Mexico's territory as an unprovoked act of agression. They did not buy this land, they took it militarily. There is no question that this was not right and that Mexico was cheated. Once they took it, I believe that they then acted quite fairly. I know that is a contradictory statement and is like saying a burgler robbed a house and afterwards treated the victims kindly. The robbery is still a crime but it is better to act kindly when the robbery is over than to inflict still more loss on the victim.

All Mexican citizens who remained were offered full US Citizenship and probably nearly all took it. Mexican Governor Pio Pico was retained as the first US Governor which gave continuity to the Mexican culture and all the original Spanish place names were retained. Those Mexicans who did not wish to stay in the United States were offered assistance to go back to Mexico. I JUST WOULD NOT CALL THIS OCCUPYING ANOTHER COUNTRY.
EVEN IF YOU CONSIDER THAT IT WAS, HOW LONG CAN YOU SAY CALIFORNIA IS OCCUPIED MEXICO? After a few generations, the original Mexican population of 50.000 probably melted into the fabric of California so to say that it is still occupied territory is really a stretch to me. I realize that a case can be made for saying that it is still occupied territory but I just consider that to be a real stretch of the facts.

IF THAT ARGUMENT HOLDS UP, THEN NEARLY ALL PARCELS OF LAND ON EARTH ARE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES. MOST EVERY NATIION WAS FORMED ON LAND WHICH AN EARLIER NATION ONCE CONTROLLED.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

What is your beef?

i cannot let this go any further, I've had enough, Hell, Iv'e had more than enough.

Aboard the Apollo 1973, now what was that? The Apollo space ship or the Apollo Space ship? Were You in present time or in L. Ron Hubbards time? Which?

Were you on the RPF, the RPFs RPF or on fucking drugs?

You don't fool me.

What is your fucking complaint! I worked on the Apollo Man on the Moon project from 1962 to 1969. I seved on Hubbard's yacht, TSMY Apollo from October 1973 to December1973. TSMY stands for Twin Screw Motor Yacht and it was aptly named since every person who worked there got a major screwing at least twice; most many more than two times.

Wrong on all counts, I did serve on the EPF - the RPF had not yet been formed. My entire drug history at the time was simply aspirin, codeine cough medicine and smoking a joint of marijuana 4 times, 3 in 1969 and 1 in 1976. I liked the marijuana but it was illegal and I could get the same kick from having a couple of beers. Each time I smoked it, I was offered it at a party and just wanted to fit in with the other people and gave it a try. Each time, I only did just one smoke.

I really do not know what your complaint is but all the answers to what you ask are available if you read pages 1 to 5 of this thread or is it 1 to 4? If you have had enough without even reading page 1, I recommend that you put us on your ignore list. We don't need you so if you don't like the thread, simply ignore it. Voila! Your problems are no solved.
Lakey

 

[Hatshepsut]

lkwdblds[/B]

I really do not know what your complaint is but all the answer to what you ask are available if you read pages 1 to 5 of this thread or is it 1 to 4? If you have had enough without even reading page 1, I recommend that you put us on your ignore list. We don't need you so if you don't like the thread, simply ignore it. Voila! Your problems are no solved.
Lakey

I didn't understand her either. I'm not sure who she's addressing either. I did not know what her issue was either.

 

[Hatshepsut]

I didn't understand her either. I'm not sure who she's addressing either. I did not know what her issue was either.

 

[lkwdblds]

Thanks to Leon, Carmelo and Hats

I was just thinking the same thing this week. I reminded myself though of just how long I'd been out already. I think it took me longer than most to recover. I can choose the platitudes I go by now. I'm looking at some of my favorite ones on my wall which I've clipped from Roger's posts. The present one reminding me that if I inhibit my create I end up living with someone else's create.

I'm like Johnny, crying when hearing the Lone Ranger music while breaking into tears at those immortal words, "Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear........"

This type of tribute is so touching, this alone makes the whole thing worthwhile. Leon, I had you pegged wrong, thinking you were arrogant, thank you for making this kind tribute and thanks Carmelo for your response. Hats, your response was totally unexpected. I don't have a real good read on who you are. I tried to reach you with my Marlene Dietrich post, figuring you to be somewhat as she was (is). I don't consider I resonate much on your wavelength but your tribute really touched my heart. I did not expect it.

Roger thanked Hats for her kind tribute to him concerning his tech and I echo his sentiments to Hats for my efforts in starting and contributing to this thread.

Starting this thread, which my family considers frivolous and indicating signs of dementia and Alzheimer's disease has actually been the best untertaking which I have engaged in so far. I have another major interest now, which is my new sould mate Edey. I am spending most of my time with her and am having wins from this alliance of comparable magnitude to my wins here. She is the right age for me, turning 60 in October and I am totally attracted to her physically. That is a real breakthrough for me finding a woman in my proper age group attractive. Check out what I have scheduled for later this month.

Joan Newton, nee Joan Todhunter, knows a musician who plays at a restaurant in my home town of Fullerton, once a week on Wednesdays. We are setting up for Joan and The Magic Thetan and I believe another friend of Joan's to meet with me and I am bringing Edey and then I invited my soon to be ex wife Evy to come as well because she and I used to visit with Joan and her former husband quite often in the early to mid 80's Evy said that she will come to say hi to Joan and meet Edey. I even pushed the envelope and told her to invite her new boyfriend but she would not go that far, she insists on coming stag. Just think, Lakey with his three most admired females in the world, Evy, Edey and Joan with the Magic Thetan added to the mix. I am in euphoria in anticipation of this outing!
Lakey

 

[Hatshepsut]

I'm like Johnny, crying when hearing the Lone Ranger music while breaking into tears at those immortal words, "Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear........"

I can 'grok' that.
I am a big Ridley Scott fan...he is also a CREATOR of WORLDS
This type of tribute is so touching, this alone makes the whole thing worthwhile. Leon, I had you pegged wrong, thinking you were arrogant, thank you for making this kind tribute and thanks Carmelo for your response. Hats, your response was totally unexpected. I don't have a real good read on who you are. I tried to reach you with my Marlene Dietrich post, figuring you to be somewhat as she was (is). I don't consider I resonate much on your wavelength but your tribute really touched my heart. I did not expect it.
No, you really got me with the Marlene Dietrich. I used to sing 'Johnny' in the shower when I was 19. Big fan of hers. She make me cry every time with those sentimental songs. My eyebrows were styled after hers for years. And they have not grown back. You read who I am fine.

Roger thanked Hats for her kind tribute to him concerning his tech and I echo his sentiments to Hats for my efforts in starting and contributing to this thread. And I AM continuing to respect my own sovereignty as not to do so IS absolutely FATAL.

Starting this thread, which my family considers frivolous and indicating signs of dementia and Alzheimer's disease has actually been the best untertaking which I have engaged in so far. I have another major interest now, which is my new sould mate Edey. I am spending most of my time with her and am having wins from this alliance of comparable magnitude to my wins here. She is the right age for me, turning 60 in October and I am totally attracted to her physically. That is a real breakthrough for me finding a woman in my proper age group attractive. Check out what I have scheduled for later this month. To be interested is to be alive

Joan Newton, nee Joan Todhunter, knows a musician who plas at a restaurant in my home town of Fullerton, once a week on Wednesdays. We are setting up for Joan and The Magic Thetan and I believe another friend of Joan's to meet with me and I am bringing Edey and then I invited my soon to be ex wife Evy to come as well because she and I used to visit with Joan and her former husband quite often in the early to mid 80's Evy said that she will come to say hi to Joan and meet Edey. I even pushed the envelope and told her to invite her new boyfriend but she would not go that far, she insists on coming stag. Just think, Lakey with his three most admired females in the world, Evy, Edey and Joan with the Magic Thetan added to the mix. I am in euphoria in anticipation of this outing!
Lakey
Oh to be YOU Lakey
Tell Johnny Hi.

ME at 21 with those 'no eyebrows' which are still no eyebrows..This was an oil painting effect over my photo found amongst the garage sale paintings and frames. I thought about my love for Marlene when I saw it... put the memory stick in the drive to show I tried to model myself after her in my youth Lakey.

 

[Pepin]

HOW LONG CAN YOU SAY CALIFORNIA IS OCCUPIED MEXICO? After a few generations, the original Mexican population of 50.000 probably melted into the fabric of California so to say that it is still occupied territory is really a stretch to me. [/B].
Lakey

But But But... I have a letter from the King of Spain granting to JoseYorba all the land where he rides hi horse in the name of Spain.

FYI: Most of the people living in OC were not "Mexican".

The Kraemer's, Temple's (Shirley), and all the rest married into the Spanish families: Yorba's, Cota's etc...

YOu can google and article my Grandmother Yorba wrote about the ranch, who lived there and what was grown. Rancho de Santa Ana

 

[nw2394]

Spiritual connections, just like us, can be dramatizing old, old inappropriate solutions: solutions which produce unwanted conditions in PT.

I never saw nor experienced any liability in doing that handling . . . non-standard LRH though it is.

The worst that could happen with what you are doing is that a "BT" might not "blow" . . . . as per what is "supposed to happen" with LRH's version of what is right . . . . but, do you think LRH's version of what should be is correct?

If not, then screw that potential "liability" of what you are doing.

I've never hung up about whether they "blow" or not. If the action results in GIs, LFBD F/N etc, then it can't have been bad. If they need to "blow" - or there is more to handle in any way - well there is always tomorrow to run another session.

Maybe when tomorrow comes and there appears to be more to handle - well maybe there is - or maybe someone else that seems to be same got restimulated. Whatever - who cares - just run what needs to be run on whoever needs it run now.

It is very easy to get stuck in the significance - but that is just a bunch of Q&A.

Nick

 

[lkwdblds]

Why was it the King of Spain's land to give?

But But But... I have a letter from the King of Spain granting to JoseYorba all the land where he rides hi horse in the name of Spain.

FYI: Most of the people living in OC were not "Mexican".

The Kraemer's, Temple's (Shirley), and all the rest married into the Spanish families: Yorba's, Cota's etc...

YOu can google and article my Grandmother Yorba wrote about the ranch, who lived there and what was grown. Rancho de Santa Ana

Pepin, I respect you a lot but in all due respect, Why was it the King of Spain's land to give. He did not pay anyone for the land but he or some earlier monarch on his Royal Spanish Line simply claimed it while there was a Native Indian population living there whose ancestor's probably staked the first claim.

As I see it, the USA committed a criminal act based upon their doctrine of "manifest destiny" and created some phoney excuse to demand the land from Mexico. When Mexico would not sell it to them, they just took it. Mexico did not do anything wrong in claiming it when they kicked out the Spanish around 1822 but the Spanish just took at from Indians and were no better than the USA in this regard.

THE GADSDEN PURCHASE- Not too long after claiming the land seized from Mexico, in 1854 and setting the territorial borders, the USA needed more land to run the railroad through. They negotiated a purchase from Mexico and paid $10 million (about $240 million in today's money) to purchase an area of about 30,000 square miles, about the size of Scotland. See link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_Purchase

This area includes the large city of Tuscon and very nearly encompasses the city of Phoenix. Mexico willingly sold the USA this fairly large piece of land. Therefore, Pepin, the area inside the Gadsden purchase would not be occupied territory because Mexico willingly sold it to the USA. To follow your logic, California and most of Arizona, nearly all of New Mexico, etc are all occupied territy but a Scotland or South Carolina sized island, encompassing Tuscon would be legitimate U.S. Territory. Did you ever think of that? That is a real stretch as is considering the means the King of Spain used to acquire the land from the natives who lived as superior to the manner in which the USA simply took the land from Mexico.
Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Oh What A History California

I think the Spanish were just as bad with one another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_3NyB8-rC0

We're bastards. Damn good at it too. We do it with style. Comes from our lengthy european history. Ever know a european culture that didn't produce utter bastards?

However I sincerely hope that you realize that Zorro was 20th century pulp fiction created by a non-hispanic american hack writer from illinois. It should by no means be thought to be indicative of life in Alta California.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

YOu can google and article my Grandmother Yorba wrote about the ranch, who lived there and what was grown. Rancho de Santa Ana

If you're a Yorba then we may be (very distant) cousins, at least in the old sense of extended spanish familiy relationships.

My grandmother had at least one cousin who married into the Yorba clan. I supposedly met her once at the old Yorba House. This would have been back in the 50's or very early '60s and she would have been elderly then. There may well have been other connections, but that one is one of which I have some (slight) memory.


Mark A. Baker