The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
- Thread starter lkwdblds
- Start date
- Status
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Don't know. Maybe there's nothing on TV on a Monday night.
Time to ask the ORACLE.
Oh Carmellooooooooo
Time to ask the ORACLE.
Oh Carmellooooooooo
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
There are an unusual number of unnamed guest viewing this thread tonight.
you would be incorrect
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (2 members and 1 guests)
over 100 viewing the entire esmb, but this list is dead tonight, as is esmb also. Only the last two or so threads keep getting posts. The other recent ones have been on the recent list for hours
Hatshepsut
Crusader
A little bit ago there were 5 guests online after 1 am at the same time. I rarely see many guests when I check for who's online late at night. These are not there NOW as you posted though.
Last edited:
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
A little bit ago there were 5 online at the same time. I rarely see any when I check for who's online late at night. These are not there NOW as you posted though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSNyiSetZ8Y
lkwdblds
Crusader
The right and left hand do not work together.
Face, on your previous post, you cited that I used the word maverick incorrectly. I agree with you. They did not prefer mavericks but rather strict conformists exactly as you say.
On this post, all that you say is good. I wanted to make an additional point. The recruiters would move heaven and Earth to get a guy into the Sea Org as if he were really important to the S.O.'s success. Often, once the guy was in, he would be treated like absolute scum and be quickly kicked out. Lives were ruined, skilled people thrown away like worn out socks and no one saw anything unusual about this or objected.
Lakey
As long as we’re on the subject, there’s another factor that enters in re: Dictatorships and Oppressive Systems... Apparatchiks of all flavors are notoriously bad managers and judges of talent.
The Eastern Block and Soviet Union produced some very talented people—artists, athletes and performers, scientists, engineers, etc., etc. Certainly much talent was exploited and wasted. Even under the oppression of segregation and Jim Crow the US produced Ralph Bunch, Leontyne Price, Vivien Thomas, George Washington Carver, David Blackwell, etc., etc., etc.
People have lives and they possess talents, abilities, interests, drives and gifts. If you are a born artist, musician, mathematician, engineer, organizer, teacher, etc., etc., etc., what are supposed to do? Sit around and go, “Oh this is all too horrible and I’m gonna just wither away and die?” No F’n way! So, you do what you can do within the “System” knowing that you are at risk but, WTF, so is everyone else and life is pulsing in your veins.
The folks in the Eastern Block were pretty much stuck where they were within borders and if you got a little bit too “frisky” you got gulaged or offed. The folks under Jim Crow were stuck where they were within borders and "applications" and "interpretations" of the Law, and if you got a little too “frisky” you got hammered by the system (FBI, KKK, etc.) or offed. A lot of SO folks are “stuck” where they are by mental borders—the delusion of “OT”, El Ron’s imaginary cosmology and the hope of another "Win"—and, if you get the slightest of “Frisky”, you’re gulaged in the RPF or “offed” for your “eternity”.
In the early days of the SO much talent was exploited and wasted and, sometimes, attacked and destroyed. However, it appears that in the later and contemporary SO nearly all talent is attacked and destroyed...unless the talent is for aiding and abetting felonious behavior and activities. Whatta mess!
That's my take on it FWIW.
Face
Face, on your previous post, you cited that I used the word maverick incorrectly. I agree with you. They did not prefer mavericks but rather strict conformists exactly as you say.
On this post, all that you say is good. I wanted to make an additional point. The recruiters would move heaven and Earth to get a guy into the Sea Org as if he were really important to the S.O.'s success. Often, once the guy was in, he would be treated like absolute scum and be quickly kicked out. Lives were ruined, skilled people thrown away like worn out socks and no one saw anything unusual about this or objected.
Lakey
Last edited:
Hatshepsut
Crusader
I thought it was a tragedy and I noticed Lakey. I was heavily recruited for Flag and got shown the dorms and all. I needed my own suite on account of I have all these cats. My friend said, yes, there were cats being fed on the Land Base compound. There wasn't enough closet space and I started to really stress under all the pressure. I sensed that I would not be treated that well as an upstat without my income. What to do what to do. I told them I had had a fondness for mescalin in my teens. They backed right off. But I did realize that once I gave up everything and went in I would lose my leverage. I'd seen this sad affair a couple of times.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Management By Stats
We recently mentioned policy, i.e. Green on White. Here's another post in that vein.
How well does management by stats work? This was a key selling feature in WISE. Many of the doctors I worked with loved it. By having stat graphs posted somewhere in the office they could interiorize into their doctoring with patients yet still feel informed and in control of the entire practice.
That system breaks down when a person, a department, or an entire organization operates on the wrong stat. I have just led myself to what I wanted to talk about: Drugs, legalization of.
Nope. I am not a drug user, never have been. I know what marijuana smells like. That's about it. The link below goes to an article about the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal. I have been saying for many years that decriminalizing drug use would lead to less use and empty prisons. I believed that to be true. Now, here's the proof.
Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
One way to crash an area is to assign it the wrong stat and have it operate on that. Scientology does this in a very psycho way. If that isn't readily apparent we can discuss later. Here in the U.S. we won't be handling the drug situation any time soon because we are assigning the area wrong stats. Because we have the wrong goals and stats we take wrong actions. In our taking wrong actions, the opposition beefs up. Then in response to that, we beef up our false solutions to combat. This is very much like a scientology organization. Did scientology ever really need an OSA or IAS? These two mutually-supportive functions roll in the GI yet they have nothing to do with helping the individual lead a better life.
Now that we have a DEA with people getting paid and other privileges of post, do you think a simple solution will be acceptable or not? I think not. Like any valence the DEA and the justice and prison systems will fight for survival. Yet, if we were to manage by stats, correct stats, we could use Portugal as a working example of how to get where we say we wish to be.
Perhaps the stated goals and objectives of addressing the drug situation in the U.S. are not the actual goals and objectives? In scientology, perhaps the stated goals and objectives are not the actual goals and objectives. Organized scientology has had since 1950 to realize a significant portion of it stated goals. What it has accomplished instead is the creation of enemies, apostates, and a majorly dirty field.
We recently mentioned policy, i.e. Green on White. Here's another post in that vein.
How well does management by stats work? This was a key selling feature in WISE. Many of the doctors I worked with loved it. By having stat graphs posted somewhere in the office they could interiorize into their doctoring with patients yet still feel informed and in control of the entire practice.
That system breaks down when a person, a department, or an entire organization operates on the wrong stat. I have just led myself to what I wanted to talk about: Drugs, legalization of.
Nope. I am not a drug user, never have been. I know what marijuana smells like. That's about it. The link below goes to an article about the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal. I have been saying for many years that decriminalizing drug use would lead to less use and empty prisons. I believed that to be true. Now, here's the proof.
Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
One way to crash an area is to assign it the wrong stat and have it operate on that. Scientology does this in a very psycho way. If that isn't readily apparent we can discuss later. Here in the U.S. we won't be handling the drug situation any time soon because we are assigning the area wrong stats. Because we have the wrong goals and stats we take wrong actions. In our taking wrong actions, the opposition beefs up. Then in response to that, we beef up our false solutions to combat. This is very much like a scientology organization. Did scientology ever really need an OSA or IAS? These two mutually-supportive functions roll in the GI yet they have nothing to do with helping the individual lead a better life.
Now that we have a DEA with people getting paid and other privileges of post, do you think a simple solution will be acceptable or not? I think not. Like any valence the DEA and the justice and prison systems will fight for survival. Yet, if we were to manage by stats, correct stats, we could use Portugal as a working example of how to get where we say we wish to be.
Perhaps the stated goals and objectives of addressing the drug situation in the U.S. are not the actual goals and objectives? In scientology, perhaps the stated goals and objectives are not the actual goals and objectives. Organized scientology has had since 1950 to realize a significant portion of it stated goals. What it has accomplished instead is the creation of enemies, apostates, and a majorly dirty field.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
It was absolutely predictable, when you understand the snake pit that the Sea Org was. They didn't WANT managers that were trained. Such managers would be dangerous to their seniors -- they might demand to follow the written policy, or even worse might call bullshit on some hare-brained scheme of their senior's and be able to show why it was bullshit using impeccable logic.
What seniors wanted in a manager was somebody who would follow orders, and who had good PR skills to convince their juniors that the hare-brained idea of the day was absolutely brilliant.
RogerB
Crusader
Ted, again, is brilliant!
This is a correct item, the item of areas of activity operating on the wrong basis, paradigm or stat!
This morning I was planning a post on the subject matter of management education (as in the issue of what they are taught as the subject matter of "management"); and to point out that this factor of "management education" is a major why of corporate failures and, indeed, the current bankrupting of the American economy.
But Ted has articulated it nicely with his point about wrong "stats."
Basically, in going to B School, students are not taught management . . . they are taught "balance sheet manipulation," one of my pet peeves; they are taught "asset stripping" (the cannibalization of working installations); they are taught the latest crazes of theories to do with cost cutting measures and/or "efficiency" procedures . . . . but nowhere that I am aware of is there taught how to organize, facilitate and direct productive, wealth-making activity.
Nor are they particularly taught how to ascertain the needs/wants of a society and how to organize to produce and meet those needs/wants . . . though marketers are taught only to do "market research" . . . and engineers are taught how to organize flows lines of production, but that's about it. So in essence we have some limited compartmentalizing of component parts or aspects of what good management should be . . . but those who become CEOs simply do not have the correct or adequate education or experience for the job.
And so, those who rise to the roles of being in charge of corporate America are "chasing the wrong stat." All because our B Schools are teaching the wrong criteria of what "management" is.
And that is why America's productive capacity has been decimated and lost.
I saw this while a Fellow of the British Inst. of Management in the 1970's. And these B School types, both the educators and the graduates, think it is all so clever, what they are doing!
And as an example of what I am talking about, for those interested, it would be illuminating to read up on the role of the McKinsey & Co consultants advice to Enron and its part in causing the Enron fiasco . . . . I think there was also a book about ?? "The Smartest Guys in the Room"?
Rog
This is a correct item, the item of areas of activity operating on the wrong basis, paradigm or stat!
This morning I was planning a post on the subject matter of management education (as in the issue of what they are taught as the subject matter of "management"); and to point out that this factor of "management education" is a major why of corporate failures and, indeed, the current bankrupting of the American economy.
But Ted has articulated it nicely with his point about wrong "stats."
Basically, in going to B School, students are not taught management . . . they are taught "balance sheet manipulation," one of my pet peeves; they are taught "asset stripping" (the cannibalization of working installations); they are taught the latest crazes of theories to do with cost cutting measures and/or "efficiency" procedures . . . . but nowhere that I am aware of is there taught how to organize, facilitate and direct productive, wealth-making activity.
Nor are they particularly taught how to ascertain the needs/wants of a society and how to organize to produce and meet those needs/wants . . . though marketers are taught only to do "market research" . . . and engineers are taught how to organize flows lines of production, but that's about it. So in essence we have some limited compartmentalizing of component parts or aspects of what good management should be . . . but those who become CEOs simply do not have the correct or adequate education or experience for the job.
And so, those who rise to the roles of being in charge of corporate America are "chasing the wrong stat." All because our B Schools are teaching the wrong criteria of what "management" is.
And that is why America's productive capacity has been decimated and lost.
I saw this while a Fellow of the British Inst. of Management in the 1970's. And these B School types, both the educators and the graduates, think it is all so clever, what they are doing!
And as an example of what I am talking about, for those interested, it would be illuminating to read up on the role of the McKinsey & Co consultants advice to Enron and its part in causing the Enron fiasco . . . . I think there was also a book about ?? "The Smartest Guys in the Room"?
Rog
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
There's also a solution to federal taxation that involves neither of the above and eliminates federal interaction with individuals and businesses.
Article I section 2 of the Constitution begins:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
One of the most prevalent "justifiers" for grossly unethical behaviors in financial & securities markets ever invented by man.
Mark A. Baker
There's a difference between taking risks and committing crimes. The stock market is inherently risky. Stocks can go down as well as up (as many of us have experienced with our 401K portfolios). Making money involves making good guesses, based on analysis, on the probability of a given stock going up versus going the other way, and placing your money accordingly.
Alternately, one can get money the easy way, by cultivating connections with politicians and bureaucrats and getting grants and no-bid contracts.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
What will happen as soon as you go down that route, is that it becomes a game where politicians are lobbied to make some things taxable and others not, based on the degree to which the item is used primarily by "The Rich". So smaller TVs will get taxed less (or not at all), while big plasma TVs get the full tax, etc.
Meanwhile, what is to be done about taxation of personal services? Wealthy people spend significant money on personal servants, often live-in servants. Nanny, cook, house-cleaner, mistress -- it adds up. How are personal servants to be taxed? Is the tax to be sent in by the employer? By the employee? Either way, it's an income tax.
How about lower-income families that hire teenage baby sitters? Is her service taxed? How about if you're paying the neighbor kid to mow your lawn? Are tips to the pizza delivery guy taxable under Fair Tax?
It's not as simple as the surface appearance would indicate.
lkwdblds
Crusader
All good stuff, just one question?
It would be interesting to do a study of how America's enormous productive capacity was gained, even in spite of the poor teachings available in Business schools. It was America's overwhelming productive capacity which tipped the scales in both WW I and WW II.
Based on just a cursory glance and guess as to why this is so would be that the Universities in late 18th and 19th centuries in America were not were not akin to factories or mills which just ground out robotic managers nor they were available to the huge percentage of citizens which they are available to today.
More of the business were entrepreneurships founded by mavericks who had natural talents in business and knew intuitively how to run a business. The Government was not as pervasive as it is now, freedoms were much greater to do things without oppresive regulations taxes and fees and in the natural order of things, the cream of management would rise to the top.
I have read three books by Lee Iacoca and that man happens to know how to run a successful car company. He did go to an Ivy League University in the late 1940's but his main body of knowledge seems to be knowing intuitively how to recruit, motivate and reward top people and quickly jettison the laggards. He was probably able to cherry pick those elements taught in the University which were based on sound principles and incorporate them into his philosophy and just filter out the unsound principles taught there.
America was somehow able to do many major things correctly between the adoption of its Constitution in the 1780's and say 1950. Inventitiveness was very high, production was extremely high, just out the roof, and quality was excellent.
So many of our American brands, be it in automobiles, electronics or appliances were all world class. A Chyrsler Corporation car was built like a bank vault and rode like a cloud. GM was an innovator in styling, pioneering features such as automatic transmissions and also had top quality. Ford was well respected. Put in some gas and change the oil occassionally and a Chevy, Ford or Plymouth would run forever. We had Zenith, RCA, GE, Philco, Packard, Nash, Hudson, Studebaker. Japanese products were a joke when compared to the products of these American Giants. There were no Korean products and not much came from China. India was not a player at all. We have lost nearly all of this history and our reputation for building top quality goods.
My point is to remark about the fact that before we lost it, we had to build it up in the first place. A scientific study of how and why the build up occurred and what changes and decisions which were made governmentally and educationally which led to thowing away nearly everything which we had built.
Lakey
Ted, again, is brilliant!
This is a correct item, the item of areas of activity operating on the wrong basis, paradigm or stat!
This morning I was planning a post on the subject matter of management education (as in the issue of what they are taught as the subject matter of "management"); and to point out that this factor of "management education" is a major why of corporate failures and, indeed, the current bankrupting of the American economy.
But Ted has articulated it nicely with his point about wrong "stats."
Basically, in going to B School, students are not taught management . . . they are taught "balance sheet manipulation," one of my pet peeves; they are taught "asset stripping" (the cannibalization of working installations); they are taught the latest crazes of theories to do with cost cutting measures and/or "efficiency" procedures . . . . but nowhere that I am aware of is there taught how to organize, facilitate and direct productive, wealth-making activity.
Nor are they particularly taught how to ascertain the needs/wants of a society and how to organize to produce and meet those needs/wants . . . though marketers are taught only to do "market research" . . . and engineers are taught how to organize flows lines of production, but that's about it. So in essence we have some limited compartmentalizing of component parts or aspects of what good management should be . . . but those who become CEOs simply do not have the correct or adequate education or experience for the job.
And so, those who rise to the roles of being in charge of corporate America are "chasing the wrong stat." All because our B Schools are teaching the wrong criteria of what "management" is.
And that is why America's productive capacity has been decimated and lost.
My question is how did America achieve such a high productive capacity? Before it could be lost, it first had to be gained, right?
I saw this while a Fellow of the British Inst. of Management in the 1970's. And these B School types, both the educators and the graduates, think it is all so clever, what they are doing!
And as an example of what I am talking about, for those interested, it would be illuminating to read up on the role of the McKinsey & Co consultants advice to Enron and its part in causing the Enron fiasco . . . . I think there was also a book about ?? "The Smartest Guys in the Room"?
Rog
It would be interesting to do a study of how America's enormous productive capacity was gained, even in spite of the poor teachings available in Business schools. It was America's overwhelming productive capacity which tipped the scales in both WW I and WW II.
Based on just a cursory glance and guess as to why this is so would be that the Universities in late 18th and 19th centuries in America were not were not akin to factories or mills which just ground out robotic managers nor they were available to the huge percentage of citizens which they are available to today.
More of the business were entrepreneurships founded by mavericks who had natural talents in business and knew intuitively how to run a business. The Government was not as pervasive as it is now, freedoms were much greater to do things without oppresive regulations taxes and fees and in the natural order of things, the cream of management would rise to the top.
I have read three books by Lee Iacoca and that man happens to know how to run a successful car company. He did go to an Ivy League University in the late 1940's but his main body of knowledge seems to be knowing intuitively how to recruit, motivate and reward top people and quickly jettison the laggards. He was probably able to cherry pick those elements taught in the University which were based on sound principles and incorporate them into his philosophy and just filter out the unsound principles taught there.
America was somehow able to do many major things correctly between the adoption of its Constitution in the 1780's and say 1950. Inventitiveness was very high, production was extremely high, just out the roof, and quality was excellent.
So many of our American brands, be it in automobiles, electronics or appliances were all world class. A Chyrsler Corporation car was built like a bank vault and rode like a cloud. GM was an innovator in styling, pioneering features such as automatic transmissions and also had top quality. Ford was well respected. Put in some gas and change the oil occassionally and a Chevy, Ford or Plymouth would run forever. We had Zenith, RCA, GE, Philco, Packard, Nash, Hudson, Studebaker. Japanese products were a joke when compared to the products of these American Giants. There were no Korean products and not much came from China. India was not a player at all. We have lost nearly all of this history and our reputation for building top quality goods.
My point is to remark about the fact that before we lost it, we had to build it up in the first place. A scientific study of how and why the build up occurred and what changes and decisions which were made governmentally and educationally which led to thowing away nearly everything which we had built.
Lakey
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
It's all about the stats. The recruiter's stat is all about how many warm bodies he gets to sign the contract. He does not care what happens afterward, as long as he's got his stat in normal or above so he doesn't get yelled at.
Also, if you are recruited by an exec for his area, it doesn't matter if you would be better suited for another area. You are the property of the exec who has you, unless he's interested in trading you. You are his slave.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Its good to know that you noticed, Hats!
Its good to know that you noticed Hats! As you have demonstrated on ESMB time and again, you are much more perceptive than most.
THE ULTIMATE SEA ORG RECRUITMENT STORY
Lawrence Woodcraft, the Architect from England, has to me the ultimate recruitment story. He was married and owned both a home and an architectural business in England, living with his wife (a psycho) and two young daughters.
The wife gets an inheritance and decides to go to Flag for services and while there decides to stay and join the Sea Org! She then orders Larry to get a visa and move to Flag with the girls immediatley and then have all three of them also join the Sea Org. Larry is reluctant but then the wife gets a top Flag Recruiter to promise Larry that he will become the Flag Architect and that he will be designing the Super Power Building and many other huge projects for Scientology. Larry is promised a large modern house to live in with his family plus his own automobile. Larry takes the bait. The house and business are sold and the necessary visas are obtained.
When Larry gets to England, he and his daughters are treated like dirt. They are all crammed into one roach infested room with no air conditioning in a decrepid motel. When he goes in to route on to his post of chief archetect he finds out that instead of that he is to be "The Success Story Officer" at a pay of about $30 a week. He is supposed to just float around the Flag Land Base collecting success stories. He is thinking, "I sold my home and architectural business to come here and live in a cramped, roach infested room and gather success stories for $30 a week." What the hell have I done? What about my daughters' educations? Finally after one year, his H1B visa runs out and he is ordered by Flag to go back to England. THIS ABUSIVE STORY TOPS ANYTHING ELSE WHICH I HAVE HEARD!!
THE SEA ORG'S ACHILLES HEELS - HAVING A "PSYCH" HISTORY OF TAKING DRUGS
When you watch Superman, if the element Kryptonite is present in his vicinity, the "mighty man of steel" falls to his knees and cowers, trying to get as far away from it as possible. The same with a powerful Vampire, if it is exposed to sunlight
For a Sea Org Recruiter, if you want to end a crush reg cycle in two seconds just mention either a "psych history" or a "drug history". The reaction of the Sea Org recruiter is almost identical to Superman's in the presence of krytonite. The Sea Org recruiter will almost put his arm in front of his face to shield himself from your presence. Quickly your routing form is initialed as signed off and you are odered, not asked, to immediately leave his area! You are regarded as the lowest of the low, equivalent to an "Untouchable" in India or a leper elsewhere.
Lakey
Its good to know that you noticed Hats! As you have demonstrated on ESMB time and again, you are much more perceptive than most.
THE ULTIMATE SEA ORG RECRUITMENT STORY
Lawrence Woodcraft, the Architect from England, has to me the ultimate recruitment story. He was married and owned both a home and an architectural business in England, living with his wife (a psycho) and two young daughters.
The wife gets an inheritance and decides to go to Flag for services and while there decides to stay and join the Sea Org! She then orders Larry to get a visa and move to Flag with the girls immediatley and then have all three of them also join the Sea Org. Larry is reluctant but then the wife gets a top Flag Recruiter to promise Larry that he will become the Flag Architect and that he will be designing the Super Power Building and many other huge projects for Scientology. Larry is promised a large modern house to live in with his family plus his own automobile. Larry takes the bait. The house and business are sold and the necessary visas are obtained.
When Larry gets to England, he and his daughters are treated like dirt. They are all crammed into one roach infested room with no air conditioning in a decrepid motel. When he goes in to route on to his post of chief archetect he finds out that instead of that he is to be "The Success Story Officer" at a pay of about $30 a week. He is supposed to just float around the Flag Land Base collecting success stories. He is thinking, "I sold my home and architectural business to come here and live in a cramped, roach infested room and gather success stories for $30 a week." What the hell have I done? What about my daughters' educations? Finally after one year, his H1B visa runs out and he is ordered by Flag to go back to England. THIS ABUSIVE STORY TOPS ANYTHING ELSE WHICH I HAVE HEARD!!
THE SEA ORG'S ACHILLES HEELS - HAVING A "PSYCH" HISTORY OF TAKING DRUGS
When you watch Superman, if the element Kryptonite is present in his vicinity, the "mighty man of steel" falls to his knees and cowers, trying to get as far away from it as possible. The same with a powerful Vampire, if it is exposed to sunlight
For a Sea Org Recruiter, if you want to end a crush reg cycle in two seconds just mention either a "psych history" or a "drug history". The reaction of the Sea Org recruiter is almost identical to Superman's in the presence of krytonite. The Sea Org recruiter will almost put his arm in front of his face to shield himself from your presence. Quickly your routing form is initialed as signed off and you are odered, not asked, to immediately leave his area! You are regarded as the lowest of the low, equivalent to an "Untouchable" in India or a leper elsewhere.
Lakey
RogerB
Crusader
Lakey,
Look at the history and differences in society between the two times.
America's prosperity was build by builders, dreamers, innovators and doers . . . . it got managed to death my those who did not learn to do, dream, or innovate, but who, subsequent to WW2 got "educated in the theory of things" . . . . the wrong things as it happens, and who, as a result of that erroneous education believed they know how to do.
It is also true that at the time America was developing its prosperity, it had an educational system that actually produced literates who could think in the broader context and it was a society of different "values" than these last 50-75 years.
It's no accident that stellar successes like Gates, and Richard Branson, for example are college drop-outs. They are doers! I could name many more.
Take a look at who financed and developed the Japanese motor car industry (Detroit). Take a look at who gave China the technology it has to take our jobs away . . . . hell, Boeing has actually taught them how to make jet planes so Boeing can "get cheaper/lower cost parts"!! Guess whose planes the Chinese and those they influence will be buying in the future . . . . the ones China makes 
R
Look at the history and differences in society between the two times.
America's prosperity was build by builders, dreamers, innovators and doers . . . . it got managed to death my those who did not learn to do, dream, or innovate, but who, subsequent to WW2 got "educated in the theory of things" . . . . the wrong things as it happens, and who, as a result of that erroneous education believed they know how to do.
It is also true that at the time America was developing its prosperity, it had an educational system that actually produced literates who could think in the broader context and it was a society of different "values" than these last 50-75 years.
It's no accident that stellar successes like Gates, and Richard Branson, for example are college drop-outs. They are doers! I could name many more.
Take a look at who financed and developed the Japanese motor car industry (Detroit). Take a look at who gave China the technology it has to take our jobs away . . . . hell, Boeing has actually taught them how to make jet planes so Boeing can "get cheaper/lower cost parts"!!
Guess whose planes the Chinese and those they influence will be buying in the future . . . . the ones China makes R
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
We recently mentioned policy, i.e. Green on White. Here's another post in that vein.
How well does management by stats work? This was a key selling feature in WISE. Many of the doctors I worked with loved it. By having stat graphs posted somewhere in the office they could interiorize into their doctoring with patients yet still feel informed and in control of the entire practice.
That system breaks down when a person, a department, or an entire organization operates on the wrong stat. I have just led myself to what I wanted to talk about: Drugs, legalization of.
Nope. I am not a drug user, never have been. I know what marijuana smells like. That's about it. The link below goes to an article about the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal. I have been saying for many years that decriminalizing drug use would lead to less use and empty prisons. I believed that to be true. Now, here's the proof.
Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
One way to crash an area is to assign it the wrong stat and have it operate on that. Scientology does this in a very psycho way. If that isn't readily apparent we can discuss later. Here in the U.S. we won't be handling the drug situation any time soon because we are assigning the area wrong stats. Because we have the wrong goals and stats we take wrong actions. In our taking wrong actions, the opposition beefs up. Then in response to that, we beef up our false solutions to combat. This is very much like a scientology organization. Did scientology ever really need an OSA or IAS? These two mutually-supportive functions roll in the GI yet they have nothing to do with helping the individual lead a better life.
Now that we have a DEA with people getting paid and other privileges of post, do you think a simple solution will be acceptable or not? I think not. Like any valence the DEA and the justice and prison systems will fight for survival. Yet, if we were to manage by stats, correct stats, we could use Portugal as a working example of how to get where we say we wish to be.
Perhaps the stated goals and objectives of addressing the drug situation in the U.S. are not the actual goals and objectives? In scientology, perhaps the stated goals and objectives are not the actual goals and objectives. Organized scientology has had since 1950 to realize a significant portion of it stated goals. What it has accomplished instead is the creation of enemies, apostates, and a majorly dirty field.
Another zinger from the Tedster!
I agree on the wrong stat and decriminalization of drugs.
When I was in Scn Senior Management the four stats given the most importance were Gross Income, Paid Completions, Value of Services Delivered and Cash/Bills. I never saw how that was going to make a better world. When I was running service Orgs I kept my attention on active Auditors in the Field, getting folks through Internships and Auditing whether in the Field, Mission or Org and on FSM hatting and assistance…worked like a charm. I wanted the Org to be a place where people wanted to come, even if just to “hang out” and I made sure that I visited with as many public, new and old, as possible throughout the week to “feel the pulse” of things.
The way I saw it, successful Field Auditors and Missions fed the Academy, the Academy was where you made Auditors and without Auditors auditing the entire operation was pointless and had a limited future. A person that got “in” via an FSM was 3-4 times as likely to “stick”, make good progress and require less hand holding and spoon feeding in the early stages.
It takes a while for the GI, Pd Comps, VSD and C/B to reflect the soundness of focusing on the right stats, but once it does, you can't kill it with an ax...that required Flag Management and Mission "Tech". The idiot Flag Rep I had went from threatening me with Comm Ev and Expulsion if I didn't jump through their compliance/stat push hoop to reveling in their rank promotion, new uniform and bonus when the Org won the Birthday Game.
Regarding management by statistics, IMO stats should be used as a tool, not a driver and overly simplistic stat systems—such as Scn’s—can create havoc. Scn’s stat system creates artificially compressed time and internal conflicts that fetter team playing and team players.
Wrong stats and faulty stat systems lead to stat pushing and pushing a wrong stat leads to all manor of insanity…such as the illegal drug trafficking, illegal immigrant mess, the recession we are in and Institutionalized Scn.
Face
Last edited:
lkwdblds
Crusader
Good points nicely stated
You have stated these points very nicely. This silly fiasco is just another example of how poor Hubbard Green on White management technology really is. Obviously, the Sea Org would be better or stronger if someone was thoroughly tested and interviewed as to where they would most like to work.
In the Hubbard stat driven fantasy world, it seems that one stat equals any other stat. Say Warren Buffet was being recruited and he said that he would like to go into finance and wrote up his credentials. Say, a homeless person is led into the same org. If Buffet was made an executive in training in finance and the homeless person started in the galley cleaning pots and pans that would lead to a better Org and happier new recruits but there is an excellent chance that both men would start out in the galley. They each only count for one stat point. Any S.O. member is capable of doing any job assigned so the robotic person who makes the personell assignments gets their same stat no matter where a person it posted.
How destructive and wasteful can a management technology be? To me, this is about as stupid as it can get. How can stability and success emerge from a managment system which practice these insane techniques. It can't and these techniques have never led to stable or effective Orgs. The only time Scientology Centers were stable, happy or efficient were when these jaundiced management principles were not rigidly followed as in many of the Missions in the 70's and very early 80's before the missions network was destroyed or perhaps in the earlier days before these oppresive policies were formulated and made official policy by Hubbard.
Lakey
You have stated these points very nicely. This silly fiasco is just another example of how poor Hubbard Green on White management technology really is. Obviously, the Sea Org would be better or stronger if someone was thoroughly tested and interviewed as to where they would most like to work.
In the Hubbard stat driven fantasy world, it seems that one stat equals any other stat. Say Warren Buffet was being recruited and he said that he would like to go into finance and wrote up his credentials. Say, a homeless person is led into the same org. If Buffet was made an executive in training in finance and the homeless person started in the galley cleaning pots and pans that would lead to a better Org and happier new recruits but there is an excellent chance that both men would start out in the galley. They each only count for one stat point. Any S.O. member is capable of doing any job assigned so the robotic person who makes the personell assignments gets their same stat no matter where a person it posted.
How destructive and wasteful can a management technology be? To me, this is about as stupid as it can get. How can stability and success emerge from a managment system which practice these insane techniques. It can't and these techniques have never led to stable or effective Orgs. The only time Scientology Centers were stable, happy or efficient were when these jaundiced management principles were not rigidly followed as in many of the Missions in the 70's and very early 80's before the missions network was destroyed or perhaps in the earlier days before these oppresive policies were formulated and made official policy by Hubbard.
Lakey
- Status