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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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CarmeloOrchards

CarmeloOrchards

Crusader
jeeezus wow. that's really nice

Hatshepsut said:
picture.php
Robert-Redford.jpg
imagesCAQ1HEWP.jpg
imagesCA2RYMUT.jpg


:wink2: Ya kinda looks like em but ya gots a nicer noz :D
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back in the late 60s, when "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" came out, there was an auditor at Santa Clara, who thought her boy friend, E.J. Steinke looked like Bob Redford. Everyone else thought he looked like Sonny Bono.

I remember seeing Butch and Sundance at the El Rancho Drive In with Laurie Noonan. It was a rainy night. The speaker (that you hook on the window) had a short. In the rain and wet, it bit me so hard. I'll never forget that one jolt.
 
Hatshepsut

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Mark A. Baker said:
So whom exactly is he suppose to be imitating? :confused2:

Michael Jackson was a tremendously talented performer of whom I never much saw the point of his art. :no:


Mark A. Baker
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I understand what you're saying... Michael is not executing any Fred Astaire numbers.?. Fred had class and Michael was a loonie.
It says Astaire on the title of this YouTube video. Learning from the Master. So I guess the association is that of the uploader.
The analogy has been made before. Apparently Fred Astaire had given Michael a private audience and discussed dancing. Michael liked to brag on this fact. He was sentimental about it. :duck:
:wink:
 
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Hatshepsut

Hatshepsut

Crusader
CarmeloOrchards said:
back in the late 60s, when "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" came out, there was an auditor at Santa Clara, who thought her boy friend, E.J. Steinke looked like Bob Redford. Everyone else thought he looked like Sonny Bono.

I remember seeing Butch and Sundance at the El Rancho Drive In with Laurie Noonan. It was a rainy night. The speaker (that you hook on the window) had a short. In the rain and wet, it bit me so hard. I'll never forget that one jolt.
Click to expand...

And I'll never forget the bruise I got while watching A Clockwork Orange at the drive in. Too many people in the back seat. :unsure:
 
afaceinthecrowd

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
CarmeloOrchards said:
just jumping into unknown territory here:

from what I've seen, there is more to auditing than just the words.

there are some auditors, who could get a result with "Do birds fly?" and there are some, who couldn't get a result with any process.

some of the elements include a safe space (as the auditor - not the environment), non judgmental, really present, loves the PC, sees the PC as a god, has no case that will hit the PC then or later, isn't auditing for $ or Well Done Auditing Hours or stat push or...., but for the betterment of the PC as defined by the PC -- in other words not enforcing a reality or having a hidden agenda.

Would anyone care to add to the list?

The auditor one should have would unconditionally love you and want the best for you, with no "yes, but.."
Click to expand...

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
afaceinthecrowd

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for all the great feedback, fellas.:yes:

I think all your posts form a very straightforward statement of success essentials to any therapy. The “Safe” factor is huge. When I learned that whatever was in one’s PC folder was, in actuality, fully actionable I found it a complete breach of all that I thought El Ron and the “Tech” stood for. To me, at the time, it seemed as though right then and there El Ron and Scn was admitting that the “Tech” was far from "perfect" and that people couldn’t really change.:confused2:

I never “held back” anything as a PC because I knew that honesty, openness and confront was the only way I was ever gonna “go free”. But, in retrospect, there is no way my knowledge of the shit that went on with stuff from folks folders couldn’t help but effect just how “In Session” I was for much of my auditing. I am sure it also effected some of the C/Ses, Auditors and others that knew as Carmelo’s excellent summation above is clearly not uniformly achievable under those conditions.:melodramatic:

Face:)
 
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RogerB

RogerB

Crusader
A Few Loose Ends

Hats,

In the period 1961-3, at ST. Hill on the SHSBC and in our staff co-audits in Melbourne we all processed together in the one room on card tables that were so close one barely had elbow room . . . . so you could hear "everyone's items."

But to answer your question on "someone else given your item" . . . it can happen many ways. One just has to get imaginative as to the ways folks can screw things up.

But, if you go to Mate's thread "How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)" here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16109

you'll see how different individual Beings can be incorrectly given another's or others' items.

It is why, in Standard Hubbard tech, you have assessment questions specifically worded for OT3's and above . . . it facilitates getting the item no matter whose it is---yours or a spiritual connection's, and giving it to the correct "who."

In 1962, before we really had a handle on this spiritual connection business, while own goal listing I actually got and accepted a goal from one of my spiritual connections . . . . so the catastrophe was twofold: wrong item for me and, unacked spiritual teammate whose item was given to another (me!):duh:

On the issue "auditor presence" written of so eloquently the lads, yes, it is the key.

I find it that the auditor has to be totally willing for the PC to come up with and to discover and be able to get off ALL, repeat, ALL, of their truth.

And you have to honor it as their truth!

The idiocy of ignoring what the PC says and dubbing in something else, or refusing to allow the PC to have their item because of some other stupid view of should be, is criminal and utterly destructive.

We had an example of this from FoTi . . . she had an amazing ascension and state of Being recovery, and the dunces wouldn't let her have what it actually was that she accomplished!!:duh: They tried to re-name, make it something else to fit their regimen !!

From personal experience, I related a story elsewhere on ESMB of an event in London in April, 1968, wherein I was so lovingly present and perceiving so precisely as-is the condition of the old lady in my presence that her case began to unravel in front of me and she actually physically straightened up and got "younger" before my eyes.

I experienced this with Dex when I first met him . . . his presence is so empowering you actually get better due to him being with you. I experience this with Face and Ted here also . . . the key to it that the Beings are so willing for you to expand to your utter and complete trueness that your crap blows.

It happened to a lady I was chatting with at the farmer's market Saturday.

Here is the end of an exchange of our emails on this issue over the weekend. It begins at the bottom. This here is after I sent her some processes to handle what interested her after our our 60 second chat.
_____________________________
Sylvia, you wrote:

“What's so interesting is that just last night I took out my mom's picture and started crying - all these strong feelings of attachment surfaced. I couldn't figure out where all this emotion is coming from and why now??? “​



Well, I did see the emotion “unlock” and begin to flow when you spoke of the events with your mother . . . . this is not uncommon when an area like that is addressed in the presence of a spiritual Being such as Virginia or me. We are very present, and aware of what is there, and it in actuality adds to the power of the person we are with . . . . and so, buried stuff like this can unlock and bleed off. In actuality, now is your chance to use the process on the mood/emotion behind the tears and to become totally free of it.



Rog


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sylvia [mailto:@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 2:47 PM
To: Roger
Subject: [SPAM] Re: OK Sylvia--This is What I Promised you for Empowering your Spiritual Perception



Dear Roger,

For some reason your email wound up in my spam folder so I didn't read it until today.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all this to me. What's so interesting is that just last night I took out my mom's picture and started crying - all these strong feelings of attachment surfaced. I couldn't figure out where all this emotion is coming from and why now??? My mom has been dead for over four years and her picture has been tucked away in a cabinet out of sight. Even now as I'm writing this email, the tears are streaming down my face thinking about my mom.

Thank you so much for sharing the Presence Process with me. My yoga practice is all about being present - in the moment which will probably prove useful during this process. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again

Sylvia
Click to expand...

So, you don't need to be in formal session to benefit your fellows :no: you just need to be totally present, permeate and perceive/duplicate as-is the truth of what is there.

Rog
 
lkwdblds

lkwdblds

Crusader
Great post to read, good for auditor hatting.......

RogerB said:
Hats,

In the period 1961-3, at ST. Hill on the SHSBC and in our staff co-audits in Melbourne we all processed together in the one room on card tables that were so close one barely had elbow room . . . . so you could hear "everyone's items."

But to answer your question on "someone else given your item" . . . it can happen many ways. One just has to get imaginative as to the ways folks can screw things up.

But, if you go to Mate's thread "How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)" here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16109

you'll see how different individual Beings can be incorrectly given another's or others' items.

It is why, in Standard Hubbard tech, you have assessment questions specifically worded for OT3's and above . . . it facilitates getting the item no matter whose it is---yours or a spiritual connection's, and giving it to the correct "who."

In 1962, before we really had a handle on this spiritual connection business, while own goal listing I actually got and accepted a goal from one of my spiritual connections . . . . so the catastrophe was twofold: wrong item for me and, unacked spiritual teammate whose item was given to another (me!):duh:

On the issue "auditor presence" written of so eloquently the lads, yes, it is the key.

I find it that the auditor has to be totally willing for the PC to come up with and to discover and be able to get off ALL, repeat, ALL, of their truth.

And you have to honor it as their truth!

The idiocy of ignoring what the PC says and dubbing in something else, or refusing to allow the PC to have their item because of some other stupid view of should be, is criminal and utterly destructive.

We had an example of this from FoTi . . . she had an amazing ascension and state of Being recovery, and the dunces wouldn't let her have what it actually was that she accomplished!!:duh: They tried to re-name, make it something else to fit their regimen !!

From personal experience, I related a story elsewhere on ESMB of an event in London in April, 1968, wherein I was so lovingly present and perceiving so precisely as-is the condition of the old lady in my presence that her case began to unravel in front of me and she actually physically straightened up and got "younger" before my eyes.

I experienced this with Dex when I first met him . . . his presence is so empowering you actually get better due to him being with you. I experience this with Face and Ted here also . . . the key to it that the Beings are so willing for you to expand to your utter and complete trueness that your crap blows.

I had several such auditors. One audited me for 300 hours and is a friend of Carmelo's. Also, the C/S for all of that auditing was Class XII Ron Schaffran, who was on loan to CCLA from Flag. Roger, do you believe that if you know who your C/S is and greatly respect that person's abilities and if the processing is given standardly, can a pc achieve better case gain by knowing he is being C/Sed by a top level and standard Case Supervisor?


It happened to a lady I was chatting with at the farmer's market Saturday.

Here is the end of an exchange of our emails on this issue over the weekend. It begins at the bottom. This here is after I sent her some processes to handle what interested her after our our 60 second chat.
_____________________________


So, you don't need to be in formal session to benefit your fellows :no: you just need to be totally present, permeate and perceive/duplicate as-is the truth of what is there.

Rog
Click to expand...

Your last paragraph is very powerful!! When I was auditing at CCLA in the early 70's doing Dianetics R3R, I executed what you mention in your paragraph above to a very high degree. The same was true at ASHO in the mid 70's and the OC Org in the mid 90's.

I had a clean and caring space. My whole beingness was devoted to doing what you state above and several PC's, who were CC staff, connected with me and promoted me at CCLA staff meetings. I was in demand as an auditor.

I was a natural as an auditor! I had some annoying traits, personnaly and was rough around the edges. I needed a top flight C/S, Interne Sup and Cramming Officer to whip me into shape. I had the later two but my C/S, Don Keeler was not up to the task. Not only did he not whip me into shape, he off loaded me out of tech division as unfit. The man was not an SP but was incompetent when it came to CREATING fine auditors who C/Sed under him. If they were already fine when they go to him, then his C/Sing was good.

I think that one of the problems which hindered Keeler was the lack of videos being made of the session. The caringness and safeness aspects of my space were not what he used in evaluating me. He did not witness these traits since I made no videos - they just did not have it at CCLA in 1971. By 1975, perhaps a little earlier, making videos of sessions became SOP.

In summary, I appreciate your outstanding post! It is vital hatting material both for being an auditor and for living life.
Lakey
 
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lkwdblds

lkwdblds

Crusader
I am not posting as much, I am soooo busy!

Right now, I am so busy that I don't have much time to post. Some will be happy about this and others won't, most others won't notice.

I am working on hose two constructions jobs which I have sold and Edey is like a product officer and is pushing me hard in working the Kangen water business. Whether of not you thing the product has merit or the machine is overpriced, there is money to be made as a Kangen water distributor.

A Kangen guy, Daniel, who is making over a million a year related a story about his daughter who is in College and now 22. Daniel got her to start bringing people to Kangen meetings when she was 21. In her second full year being a distributor, her income was over $180,000.

One guy I talked to had only been in it a bit over 1 year. I asked him what he earned his first year and he stated $107,000. I said that was not too bad. HE TOLD ME HE ONLY SOLD 4 Machines!!! Each Machine is $3980. I asked how in the hell he made $107,000 with only 4 sales since the first two sales netted him $285 each and the second two sales netted him $570 each. His total commissions add to only $1,710 so please explain.

He said that one woman whom he sold to goes to his church a large church with 5,000 members. She is the head of the church's sisterhood and she realized big health benefits from drinking the water and so started heavily promoting it at her church. She sold dozens of machines and then that tier of buyers promoted to their friends. Eventually probably over 100 machines were sold. That guy is now set for life after selling only 4 machines because one of those sales brought in scores of people under his line up. This year he will make more than $107,000 even if he does not sell a machine as long as those dozens of people under him keep making new sales.

Edey struggled for about 3 months but has now made 5 sales. We figure that once she gets to about 11 sales, she will start making a good living. Of course, what you make depends on how well those under you, take the ball and run with it. If you land one big mover and shaker, then you are set for life. If none of your sales is a mover or shaker then you just grind out $30,000, $40,000 or $50,000 every year but slowly that will grow as your downline expands.

I have made the decision to go all out in that endeavor. Then I am moving out from ex wife's and my current house. I found a place and now we are opening an escrow.

That means I have Lakewood Builders jobs, Kangen Water activites and business plus the process of moving. Then I am talking classes with Edey, Lorinda and others at the University Universalist church. Then after all that, it is just a parade of get togethers, events, parties and friendships to be made and created. Everyone I meet has issues in life or their neck and back are out of alignment. I start giving them accupressure messages and then on some of them, I gave assists or sessions. I am trying to make a business out of giving sessions and massages as well.

Right now, everything I do is for free or I barter and get some free service in return. Lorinda charges $210 an hour for her treatments and was heavily booked and getting her $210. In fact she dropped from $275 to $210 because of the economy. Recently, most of her clients left her. That is why she needs sessions and guidance but she is getting it sorted out.

I recently got a session from Lorinda in trade for me giving her a massage. Her tech is very powerful, I was actually greatly effected by it. She and I judge that our results are approximately equivalent. She feels that if I charge $65 or $75 per hour, it is way too low. She feels that if I properly promote I could get $200 per hour. I know that top ex Scn people giving services in the field only get $100 per hour. I am talking Class VIII auditors here. My mindset is that there is no way I am worth double what they are charging. Lorinda is telling me to blow that consideration!
More later, Lakey
 
CarmeloOrchards

CarmeloOrchards

Crusader
lkwdblds said:
She feels that if I properly promote I could get $200 per hour. I know that top ex Scn people giving services in the field only get $100 per hour. I am talking Class VIII auditors here. My mindset is that there is no way I am worth double what they are charging. Lorinda is telling me to blow that consideration!
Click to expand...

This isn't fully true.

I don't know what others get. Roy Selby said he charges. $100 per hour. That would seem to me to be rock bottom.

Most recently I've charged $150 for the grades.

Depending on what is needed and who (deep pockets, etc) i've routinely charged $350.

I've exchanged auditing for windows and roofing work.

The key is to get a practice going. You do that cheaply. You don't rely on it. You earn a living elsewhere.

Once people are knocking on your door, then you can raise your rates.

Don't ever ever let yourself get in the position where you need the work for $$.

Don't look for paying clients, as a general rule, in the ex scio community. Those folk have been through the ringer on low havingness, and don't want to part with money no how no way.
 
CarmeloOrchards

CarmeloOrchards

Crusader
lkwdblds said:
Your last paragraph is very powerful!! When I was auditing at CCLA in the early 70's doing Dianetics R3R, I executed what you mention in your paragraph above to a very high degree. The same was true at ASHO in the mid 70's and the OC Org in the mid 90's.

I had a clean and caring space. My whole beingness was devoted to doing what you state above and several PC's, who were CC staff, connected with me and promoted me at CCLA staff meetings. I was in demand as an auditor.

I was a natural as an auditor! I had some annoying traits, personnaly and was rough around the edges. I needed a top flight C/S Interne Sup and Cramming Officer to whip me into shape. I had the later two but my C/S, Don Keeler was not up to the task. Not only did he not whip me into shape, he off loaded me out of tech division as unfit. The man was not an SP but was incompetent when it came to CREATING fine auditors who C/Sed under him. If they were already fine when they go to him, then his C/Sing was good.

I think that one of the problems which hindered Keeler was the lack of videos being made of the session. The caringness and safeness aspects of my space were not what he used in evaluating me. He did not witness these traits since I made no videos - they just did not have it at CCLA in 1971. By 1975, perhaps a little earlier, making videos of sessions became SOP.

In summary, I appreciate your outstanding post! It is vital hatting material both for being an auditor and for living life.
Lakey
Click to expand...

Where and when I learned to audit <<THIS LIFETIME>> the ironclad rule was have hugely winning PCs. This was a center, not an org. The end product was how people were doing in life.

Among those first PC's was a pizza parlor owner, who got so drunk so often he would sometimes pee in his pants just seated on a bar stool. Within a few months he was sober period.

There was a boy, who was a major brat, who changed into a nice boy to all his surprised family within a couple of weeks.

The bottom line was never anything like worksheets or spewing commands to a doll. It was how was the client doing in LIFE.

This is not Standard Tech. Thank God. It is basic good sense.
 
Ted

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
CarmeloOrchards said:
This isn't fully true.

I don't know what others get. Roy Selby said he charges. $100 per hour. That would seem to me to be rock bottom.

Most recently I've charged $150 for the grades.

Depending on what is needed and who (deep pockets, etc) i've routinely charged $350.

I've exchanged auditing for windows and roofing work.

The key is to get a practice going. You do that cheaply. You don't rely on it. You earn a living elsewhere.

Once people are knocking on your door, then you can raise your rates.

Don't ever ever let yourself get in the position where you need the work for $$.

Don't look for paying clients, as a general rule, in the ex scio community. Those folk have been through the ringer on low havingness, and don't want to part with money no how no way.
Click to expand...



I charge $100 per hour to deliver "The Bridge." If I lived in California or NYC I would charge much more than that.

I often charge nothing to do some corrective action.

The quote in red above is true in all phases of living, not just auditing. When you ~need~ the money you lose the freedom of, "Take it or leave it. That's my offer."
 
CarmeloOrchards

CarmeloOrchards

Crusader
Ted said:
I charge $100 per hour to deliver "The Bridge." If I lived in California or NYC I would charge much more than that.

I often charge nothing to do some corrective action.

The quote in red above is true in all phases of living, not just auditing. When you ~need~ the money you lose the freedom of, "Take it or leave it. That's my offer."
Click to expand...

My house in California is worth much more than a mil. In Florida, it would be worth $15 K max.

the cost of living is very different
 
Ted

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
CarmeloOrchards said:
My house in California is worth much more than a mil. In Florida, it would be worth $15 K max.

the cost of living is very different
Click to expand...


Ya, but you mean $150K, right?

Given the instability of the market I would say $175K but with the aforementioned caveat.
 
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