The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
- Thread starter lkwdblds
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FoTi
Crusader
This is an interesting series of videos on YouTube....there's quite a few of them. I find them helpful to try to understand this phenomena. Here's another one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCQBIx-R7fg&feature=related
Hatshepsut
Crusader
What's sad is that 'abuser' is a ROLE. Its a role that demands be acted out on the part of the being. It is willful and has strong intentionedness. It looks for victims to 'conscript' into its drama whereby it can experience its own power (for a change). It is launching its voracity from a point of previous perceived weakness. My experience is that these people always garner others around them to punctuate their pronouncements upon those they are abusing. They like to be in management. They like to be in a clique where power supports power. If someone under their dept claims mistreatment their friends laugh that the complaint will never make it UP the lines.
Like police officers who cover up for triggerhapp members of their own force. As I was listening to this guy's description numerous individuals in hotel motel management came to mind. Bunches of them. Anywhere a person can come and go and have an opportunity to boss others around with no supervision and few employee rights...there they are. Whether its running the C of S or a group of used car dealers, or a theatrical production, or a rag newspaper, they take positions where they can easily demean others and have it written up to artistic temperament. In other words, a lot of their creative energy has gone into engineering the social or work situation in which they, the being can 'get out of their system' the time when they themselves were pissed on. They feed off of causing the dramatization of those same feelings in others until they have had their fill. In other words they do it because they CAN! And if they can't get away with it__they, like a shark after the smell of blood in the water will locate a situation in which the 'ROLE' can be played out. It's DEMONIC!!!
Hang the bastards! They're inexhaustible. Remember Meryl Streep in 'The Devil Wears Prada'.
What's disgusting is how these elicit others to hold a group in a corresponding role to their dominance while they do the tap dancing. These people may be antisocial basically but they do not act alone. They usually put together a regime to protect themselves. Of course those who are gathered into that regime are the first to be preyed upon. 
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Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
A good observation. An interesting addition is that manic forms of bipolar disorder are evidently often misdiagnosed as NPD as they have similar manifestations. Bipolar & NPD have a lot in common.
FWIW, good to see by your sig line I amused you.
Mark A. Baker
I am always amused by things I find in others that I wish I had originated first. Your statement is so close to the truth it just had to be funny to a guy like me.
Philosophically speaking, whose to say I didn't say it first? And then just have it manifest in you.
I think someone wrote an entire set of axioms based on that phenomena.
I have written so much to clearing discussions that I don't even recognize my earlier writings. I looked back at a thread I was on years ago. Started reading it. Found an article very profound and interesting. Wondered who had written it. When I got to the end I found out it was me!
Then there's the list of songs I wish I had written, not for the financial gain but for the recognition of having penned a great, expressive song. When I hear one of those I always think, "Damn! Why didn't I think of that?"
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
Mon Feb 14, 12:52 pm ET
South Carolina lawmaker wants separate currency for state
By Liz Goodwin
A South Carolina state politician wants the state to develop its own gold and silver-based currency in case the Federal Reserve collapses and hyper-inflation ensues.
"If folks lose faith in the dollar, we need to have some kind of backup," State Sen. Lee Bright told the Spartanburg Herald Journal's Stephen Largen. His bill asks a committee to look into the development of a state currency, citing the Constitution and Supreme Court precedents to prove the bill's legality.
Slate's Annie Lowrey tracks down similar bills in Georgia and Virginia, and points out that the legislation reflects a larger trend of state politicians wading into monetary policy. A bill in Georgia would require all debts to the state be paid in pre-1965 gold and silver coins. The Virginia proposal would let the state print its own money. Meanwhile, one politician in Utah wants to cut out the middleman entirely and allow the state's residents to run their very own mints.
Advocates of currency alternatives to the dollar argue that the Federal Reserve's quantitive easing techniques will lead to inflation. Texas GOP Rep. Ron Paul, who won the Conservative Political Action Committee's presidential candidate straw poll last week, has been Congress' most visible anti-Fed leader. Paul argues the Fed devalues the dollar, and proposes that the United States should gradually return to gold-backed currency.
In addition to the nightmarish logistical challenges involved with a state adopting a new currency, Lowrey points out that commodity-backed currencies can also experience volatility. For example, if a state collects income taxes in gold and then a big new gold mine is discovered, the metal's value would decline--together with the state's revenue holdings.
So for now, it's probably best for individual consumers to refrain from shifting over to sovereign state currencies--especially since none of the recently introduced currency bills stands a strong chance of passing. However, for numistmatists looking to make a political statement, the Ron Paul silver dollar will likely appreciate--especially since federal authorities raided the libertarian minting operation that marketed it back in 2007.
South Carolina lawmaker wants separate currency for state
By Liz Goodwin
A South Carolina state politician wants the state to develop its own gold and silver-based currency in case the Federal Reserve collapses and hyper-inflation ensues.
"If folks lose faith in the dollar, we need to have some kind of backup," State Sen. Lee Bright told the Spartanburg Herald Journal's Stephen Largen. His bill asks a committee to look into the development of a state currency, citing the Constitution and Supreme Court precedents to prove the bill's legality.
Slate's Annie Lowrey tracks down similar bills in Georgia and Virginia, and points out that the legislation reflects a larger trend of state politicians wading into monetary policy. A bill in Georgia would require all debts to the state be paid in pre-1965 gold and silver coins. The Virginia proposal would let the state print its own money. Meanwhile, one politician in Utah wants to cut out the middleman entirely and allow the state's residents to run their very own mints.
Advocates of currency alternatives to the dollar argue that the Federal Reserve's quantitive easing techniques will lead to inflation. Texas GOP Rep. Ron Paul, who won the Conservative Political Action Committee's presidential candidate straw poll last week, has been Congress' most visible anti-Fed leader. Paul argues the Fed devalues the dollar, and proposes that the United States should gradually return to gold-backed currency.
In addition to the nightmarish logistical challenges involved with a state adopting a new currency, Lowrey points out that commodity-backed currencies can also experience volatility. For example, if a state collects income taxes in gold and then a big new gold mine is discovered, the metal's value would decline--together with the state's revenue holdings.
So for now, it's probably best for individual consumers to refrain from shifting over to sovereign state currencies--especially since none of the recently introduced currency bills stands a strong chance of passing. However, for numistmatists looking to make a political statement, the Ron Paul silver dollar will likely appreciate--especially since federal authorities raided the libertarian minting operation that marketed it back in 2007.
Hatshepsut
Crusader
I think all of this would be a good thing! But it would never float. Too many might see that a sense of cohesive responsibility would render outcomes associated with intelligent organization instead of financially compensated ___bad human karma.( or whatever)
I had to pause for thought during the presidential address where they cut to a newsclip talking about laws to guarantee 'equal life outcomes'. Who can control the circumstances under which you were conceived or how well nourished you were in the womb. Or how smart your parents were in not putting you in a bad situation for 18 yrs?
Can you imagine if some state's money was worth more than other state's money. There would be a big swapping around of post office box addresses for some.
I had to pause for thought during the presidential address where they cut to a newsclip talking about laws to guarantee 'equal life outcomes'. Who can control the circumstances under which you were conceived or how well nourished you were in the womb. Or how smart your parents were in not putting you in a bad situation for 18 yrs?
Can you imagine if some state's money was worth more than other state's money. There would be a big swapping around of post office box addresses for some.
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Terril park
Sponsor
All of us?
For myself OT was never a prime goal. Knowledge and greater ability was
more like it. But that is probably in the direction of OT.
I've experienced flashes of it. deliberately sought out others experience of the same. And they have had flashes of it. Per reports LRH did also.
If one looks at all experience, literature etc, it seems to be a common theme. One exploited by many. LRH at least tried to give it to all, while enriching himself and getting others to flow power to him.
If one accepts that we are spiritual beings, the concept of " OT" is
not so of the wall.
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
You are speaking for yourself there, TP. You are definitely NOT speaking for me.
Mark A. Baker
Terril park
Sponsor
Thus the question mark.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Your statement is entirely reasonable. Here I use the word in its correct usage, reasonable being a good thing. Many of us have experienced "flashes of it."
The trouble with alla this scieno stuff cements when marketing and sales hype takes it way, way over the top to suggest certain outcomes are routinely being delivered. In the PDC LRH said that scientology was an effort at a total know. This is reasonable and acceptable. With this as a stable datum we can all make the effort, sink or swim, win or die in the attempt. What a great game!
In Standard Tech, the Auditor's Code, and KSW-1, LRH suggested (and emphatically stated) that he and the subject had arrived. A simple objective process of looking around at the failed cases, the empty course rooms, the OTs with out-Grades, and so on would indicate to a casual, unindoctrinated observer that Hubbard and the subject had NOT arrived.
Says one thing, does something else in subterfuge. That's 1.1 on the tone scale.
Terril park
Sponsor
RogerB
Crusader
Yes, last I saw, there are ten states currently with propositions on agenda for their legislators for the affirming of gold and silver coin as real money (per their and the US Constitutions) and the affirming in law their acceptance for all payments to the states and within the states.
A movement is afoot. These state's legislators are aware that the Fed Reserves scrip of "money" based on debt is a house of cards about to tumble.
Rog
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
We will have to disagree on this concept of arrival.
The only way scientology achieved 100% standard tech results was to shuffle off a percentage of people as being SP. Even in the highlight of my best days, that was the case. That action alone immediately reduced the 100% to less.
Then there are various types of A to J PTS, some of whom never get into session.
Then there are the psych cases. They can petition but probably won't get into session.
Ethics cases. Some might eventually make it into session. Some not. See that 100% dwindling?
OT phenomena is sporadic, largely uncontrolled. That's not much of an arrival.
Terril park
Sponsor
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
my half baked notion:
I like to think that as there are MEST Clears, Theta Clears, Clears, and Clear OTs, there are other determined codees, self-determined codees (Kn), and pan (or omni) determined ____s.
I think that several of the codees who either got very drunk for months on end, or who lost everything and declared bankruptcy fit in category number one. Basically they are or were being pushed around by life (for lack of a better generalized terminal).
But that’s not what I’m here to talk about.
I’m here to talk about what I experienced from PEAT about ten years ago, and more importantly, some new conjectures on how and what to audit.
But I’m going to digress at least one more time before I get there.
My wife is a “Founding Scientologist.” My wife’s oldest daughter was a class Vlll when she was sixteen. Our youngest daughter was a honcho in Scientology in her previous life. Some of my best friends were the best of the best in the fifties, sixties, and seventies. One was on the original Vlll course and NOT overboarded.
I have seen them when they are on top of the world and can create parking spaces where there are none. Where the activity level just notches up when they walk in the room. Where orgs and centers are created out of thin air.
I have seen them when there is no pit lower. LaMont Johnson went homeless for awhile. In about 76, Alan had lost his centers, yet again--he was a shadow of himself. Another used up about $40 K on coke one year. Back when that was real money. John McMaster died broken, bitter, and drinking heavily. Quentin committed suicide. LRH was probably murdered by his trusted henchmen. Do I need to go on?
Alan discovered or recovered the codes. A lot of us jumped on that bandwagon. If you don’t know, think of the codes as one very large positive and one very large negative. This allowed many of us to get very big, and also, to crash with loads of force. Lucky us! For my money the codes are basic to one’s GPMs. My GPMs tended to discharge the more I looked at things.
I’ve been doing some auditing of others over the years. I’ve gotten a lady who was bedridden with systemic arthritis to the point where she was jogging a par course eighteen months later. I’ve gotten a number of people stably off the bottle. Another off Vikodin. I’ve even cleaned up a major service fac on someone near and dear to me. As auditors go, I’m pretty good. I’ve gotten blase to the point where I can audit practically anything over a phone line.
But the one thing that I couldn’t do is give someone auditing that ended up with them being stable. All of us “knew’ that was an impossibility. We knew that crashes just plain happen. There were lies and PR contrary to this, but one would have to be pretty fucking stupid to believe.
Along came PEAT.
Lyn Keller gave me one session, and magic happened. There was this enormous peaceful space. It was ME! The piece that got cleaned up was the fulcrum that kicked me into crash mode.
**************************
My speculation is:
What the PEAT process runs out is the charge between the positive and negative codes. Having done the switch from positive to negative and from negative to positive, I can tell you that there is (or was) a VERY PAINFUL hump in the middle. It made going from either extreme to the other very difficult. Oftentimes it was less painful to sit and do nothing in the middle than face crossing that charge. PEAT discharges that charge like nothing I’ve ever seen.
**************************
So what is that charge?
Again my speculation:
For the materially oriented. If you have a generator (not an alternator), you have a field that crosses another field. This creates an electrical flow.
As a metaphor this works with the codes of two individuals, and then we can extrapolate the addition of many more individuals.
The codes, on a person, plus and minus -- set up a field. Another’s codes or another’s plus and minus cut across the field.
If two positives occupy the same area, an enhanced positive array is seen. If two negatives get together, boy does it get negative. Or one positive can delete the effect of one negative or vice versa.
**********************************
So how does this work with real people?
If I am happy doing something I like
(see we have a positive and negative here, the positive and the negative , in a system help to define each other--without a negative to define the positive, all you have is a murky gray.)
And someone comes along and makes me wrong for doing what I’m doing
(this person has a value scale too, with a positive and a negative that is not the same as mine)
This creates charge... no duh.
*************************
If both parties had agreed on the basic goodness of what I was doing no charge would have been created, in fact we both would have experienced a higher positive.
**************************
So...... back to the charge.
In Dianetics and Scientology, we would have run out the “make wrong” “the invalidation” “the problem” “the secondary” “the opp term” ETC ETC ETC
and we would have gotten a shiny happy PC.
and somewhere down the road, that PC would pull in something bigger and meaner to fall into.
*************************
BECAUSE:
we only ran one side of the charge.
the charges tend to want to stay balanced.
PC gets bigger (positive)
PC pulls in bigger negative.
NO STABLE GAINS.
Suppose you are a PC who has been through the Dianetics, Scientology, EST, etc mill.
Do you feel stable?
Well, do you?
Honestly?
The PEAT process gave me the first real glimpse at stability that I had felt in about 35 years. It mitigates that charge built up encountering others and from having been excessively audited on negative events. PEAT does not just run the negative. It runs the full gamut of the charge.
If you’ve made it to the end here, thank you. I hope I wrote clearly and built my conclusions well.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Comments on OT phenomena
Another good post Ted!
I'd like to say something about your last line above, OT phenomena being sporadic, largely uncontrolled.
It seems a certainty that most people, regardless of their Scientology history or state of case have experienced some sort of OT phenomena. Its true that when and how it comes in a person's life appears to be sporadic.
The "intuitive" people which I have met in the last year all have experienced some things which could be classified as OT behavior. The same is true for most newbies in Scn, be it the church or the independent field. In fact, many, but not all, people whom you meet in the course of a life, have a story to tell which appears to be a sporadic occurance of OT phenomena.
Hubbard's Bridge to Total Freedom was supposed to be a series of steps which guaranteed any being (who had not been rendered ineligible by Ted's list of disqualifications above) that they would arrive at OT VIII being fully at cause over Matter, Energy, Space and Time, both subjective and objective.
Later on, the OT VIII limit on the bridge was extended to include unpublished OT levels OT IX to OT XV which Hubbard had researched and blocked out but which were mainly in note form and not published. Its as if Hubbard had always dangled a carrot on the end of stick, getting the public to move to their next step. When OT VIII's began appearing and it became obvious that they did not have super OT powers, Hubbard, in his typical fashion, simply extended the stick to a greater length, taking it all the way to OT XV.
The only question which arose then is why was LRH himself, the discoverer of all tech through OT XV, not more OT himself. Accounts from his last years showed that both the state of his body and his case were not exemplary. Things that happened to him personally were not what would be expected of such a high level OT. He was in hiding, his body was deteriorating, he had allowed his wife to take a fall for him and serve prison time so that he would not have to appear in court, he was disconnected from one Son, Nibs, while another Son, Quentin, had committed suicide. All of this threw doubt on how OT one could get by investing time and money in doing Hubbard's bridge.
WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO PREDICTIBLY INCREASE OT ABILITIES?I just throw this question out for discussion. Like most things in Scientology, the earlier levels, from 1950 through the early 1960's seem to offer the best look. Many drills and processes from the books and lectures of those days seem to be an effort to increase OT abilities and some of them appear to have significant workability.
The later Bridge, NOTS and beyond does not really seem to have much connection with increasing OT abilities.
There are basic things such as getting off withholds, cleaning up misunderstandings, listening to people and offering them help, meditating, outflowing to others, creating aesthetic products, exchanging in abundance etc. which seem to lead to a person being more OT, in the Hubbard sense. Just a general rise in tone level and concentrating more on outflow than inflow seem to go a long way.
THE BASIC QUESTION seems to be: "Can specific rundowns be formulated to create and enhance OT abilities or do these abilities appear as a byproduct of a general cleaning up and improvement in state of case?"
Lakey
Another good post Ted!
I'd like to say something about your last line above, OT phenomena being sporadic, largely uncontrolled.
It seems a certainty that most people, regardless of their Scientology history or state of case have experienced some sort of OT phenomena. Its true that when and how it comes in a person's life appears to be sporadic.
The "intuitive" people which I have met in the last year all have experienced some things which could be classified as OT behavior. The same is true for most newbies in Scn, be it the church or the independent field. In fact, many, but not all, people whom you meet in the course of a life, have a story to tell which appears to be a sporadic occurance of OT phenomena.
Hubbard's Bridge to Total Freedom was supposed to be a series of steps which guaranteed any being (who had not been rendered ineligible by Ted's list of disqualifications above) that they would arrive at OT VIII being fully at cause over Matter, Energy, Space and Time, both subjective and objective.
Later on, the OT VIII limit on the bridge was extended to include unpublished OT levels OT IX to OT XV which Hubbard had researched and blocked out but which were mainly in note form and not published. Its as if Hubbard had always dangled a carrot on the end of stick, getting the public to move to their next step. When OT VIII's began appearing and it became obvious that they did not have super OT powers, Hubbard, in his typical fashion, simply extended the stick to a greater length, taking it all the way to OT XV.
The only question which arose then is why was LRH himself, the discoverer of all tech through OT XV, not more OT himself. Accounts from his last years showed that both the state of his body and his case were not exemplary. Things that happened to him personally were not what would be expected of such a high level OT. He was in hiding, his body was deteriorating, he had allowed his wife to take a fall for him and serve prison time so that he would not have to appear in court, he was disconnected from one Son, Nibs, while another Son, Quentin, had committed suicide. All of this threw doubt on how OT one could get by investing time and money in doing Hubbard's bridge.
WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO PREDICTIBLY INCREASE OT ABILITIES?I just throw this question out for discussion. Like most things in Scientology, the earlier levels, from 1950 through the early 1960's seem to offer the best look. Many drills and processes from the books and lectures of those days seem to be an effort to increase OT abilities and some of them appear to have significant workability.
The later Bridge, NOTS and beyond does not really seem to have much connection with increasing OT abilities.
There are basic things such as getting off withholds, cleaning up misunderstandings, listening to people and offering them help, meditating, outflowing to others, creating aesthetic products, exchanging in abundance etc. which seem to lead to a person being more OT, in the Hubbard sense. Just a general rise in tone level and concentrating more on outflow than inflow seem to go a long way.
THE BASIC QUESTION seems to be: "Can specific rundowns be formulated to create and enhance OT abilities or do these abilities appear as a byproduct of a general cleaning up and improvement in state of case?"
Lakey
lkwdblds
Crusader
Excellent, Carmelo!
Carmelo, when I was writing my latest post, your post which I quoted was not posted yet. When I was done, and posted, I noticed your new post. Your post was the type of thing which I was looking for to go forward on my topic of how to become more OT.
The stability which you talk about certainly has to be a major part of having more OT abilities!
I am not at all familiar with PEAT, I had never heard of it before reading your post. I'd like to read more about it. It sounds very intriguing.
Lakey
Carmelo, when I was writing my latest post, your post which I quoted was not posted yet. When I was done, and posted, I noticed your new post. Your post was the type of thing which I was looking for to go forward on my topic of how to become more OT.
The stability which you talk about certainly has to be a major part of having more OT abilities!
I am not at all familiar with PEAT, I had never heard of it before reading your post. I'd like to read more about it. It sounds very intriguing.
Lakey
MattD
Patron with Honors
PEAT
PEAT = "Primordial Energy Activation and Transcendence"
http://www.spiritual-technology.com/
Zivorad Slavinski
PEAT = "Primordial Energy Activation and Transcendence"
http://www.spiritual-technology.com/
Zivorad Slavinski
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
General cleanup and improvement of state of case will give the pc/client what they want, and help them dispense with what they do not want. Will this be "OT" ability? I cannot say.
I think ACW's talk, "Miracles and Magic," available on the KN website last time I looked, is a good reference.
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
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