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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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freethinker

freethinker

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Re: Unfortunately, I see your point.

Here is a link to a forum where this guy tore the word apart from every angle. It's quite long. http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/2885220/1/

And here is a guy who wrote his opinions and asked that of others. There were several sites I found where the person was offended but wanted to know if it was racist or politicaly incoorect or whether they were taught to think it was racist. I found most of the responses didn't care about the usage one way or the other. http://parlourmagazine.com/2010/09/mulatto-racial-slur-or-socially-exceptable/
FoTi said:
Thanks for the definitions. I did google it and I also looked it up in my own American Heritage dict.

The following is from Wikipedia definition of 'mulatto' in the Brazil section.

"The term mulatto (mulato in Portuguese) does not carry a racist connotation and is used along with other terms like moreno, light-moreno and dark-moreno. These focus more on the skin color than on the ethnicity, although they can refer to hair color alone - e.g. "light-moreno" would be "caucasian brunette". Such terms are also used for other multiracial people in Brazil, and they are the popular terms for the pardo skin color used on the 2000 official census"

And from what I read of what Ted wrote I got that ....Obama claimed to be or favored to paint himself black when he is actually mixed....in other words 'mulatto'.....which is one of several words used to indicate mixed heritage or mixed breeding rather than pure bred. I do not see that Ted wrote was racist.

I see it more that Obama was going for the black voters support by claiming or making an issue of that idea that he was black.

The truth is.....he is a mulatto by definition, is he not? Do you think that's racist?
Click to expand...
 
FoTi

FoTi

Crusader
Re: Unfortunately, I see your point.

freethinker said:
Here is a link to a forum where this guy tore the word apart from every angle. It's quite long. http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/2885220/1/

And here is a guy who wrote his opinions and asked that of others. There were several sites I found where the person was offended but wanted to know if it was racist or politicaly incoorect or whether they were taught to think it was racist. I found most of the responses didn't care about the usage one way or the other. http://parlourmagazine.com/2010/09/mulatto-racial-slur-or-socially-exceptable/
Click to expand...

Thank you for the links......interesting. :thumbsup:
 
lkwdblds

lkwdblds

Crusader
What a writer intends and what is!

Discussing the word "mulatto" is quite an interesting topic. It all started when a poster suggested that President Obama was touting himself as a Black man for political advantage when he was actually of mixed race. Clearly no racism whatsoever was intended by these remarks.

Representatives of the "polictically correct" crowd were quick to seize the moment and notify the poster that his post used a racist invective and therefore what he wrote was "racist".

Those of politically correct persuasion are quick to label a remark racist, caring not whether the originator of the remark intended it to be racist or not. I DO NOT LIKE THIS PRACTICE BECAUSE IF A PERSON'S REMARK IS LABELED RACIST, THEN A TRANSFER OFTEN OCCURS WHERE THE PERSON MAKING THE REMARK IS AUTOMATICALLY LABLED A RACIST AS WELL!

In this particular instance a battle ensued to convince us that the word was created as evil and racist from the outset of its point of origination.

DOES A WORD HAVE AN INDEPENDENT MEANING OF ITS OWN, REGARDLESS OF THE USER'S INTENT OR DOES THE WORD MEAN WHAT THOSE USING THE WORD CHOOSE TO AGREE IT MEANS?

That is really the issue that is at stake here and not just the meaning of one particular word.

Lakey
 
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freethinker

freethinker

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Re: What a writier intends and what is!

I think it has a lot to do with what the person was educated to believe because for those who have never heard the word it has no conotation at all. Education can be used to "mold" minds. Educational materials and especially history books are not necessarily correct and more often than not, slanted.
lkwdblds said:
Discussing the word "mulatto" is quite an interesting topic. It all started when a poster suggested that President Obama was touting himself as a Black man for political advantage when he was actually of mixed race. Clearly no racism whatsoever was intended by these remarks.

Representatives of the "polictically correct" crowd were quick to seize the moment and notify the poster that his post used a racist invective and therefore what he wrote was "racist".

Those of politically correct persuasion are quick to label a remark racist, caring not whether the originator of the remark intended it to be racist or not. I DO NOT LIKE THIS PRACTICE BECAUSE IF A PERSON'S REMARK IS LABELED RACIST, THAN A TRANSFER OFTEN OCCURS WHERE THE PERSON MAKING THE REMARK IS AUTOMATICALLY LABLED A RACIST AS WELL!

In this particular instance a battle ensued to convince us that the word was created as evil and racist from the outset of its point of origination.

DOES A WORD HAVE AN INDEPENDENT MEANING OF ITS OWN, REGARDLESS OF THE USER'S INTENT OR DOES THE WORD MEAN WHAT THOSE USING THE WORD CHOOSE TO AGREE IT MEANS?

That is really the issue that is at stake here and not just the meaning of one particular word.

Lakey
Click to expand...
 
Ted

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: What a writier intends and what is!

lkwdblds said:
Discussing the word "mulatto" is quite an interesting topic. It all started when a poster suggested that President Obama was touting himself as a Black man for political advantage when he was actually of mixed race. Clearly no racism whatsoever was intended by these remarks.

Representatives of the "polictically correct" crowd were quick to seize the moment and notify the poster that his post used a racist invective and therefore what he wrote was "racist".

Those of politically correct persuasion are quick to label a remark racist, caring not whether the originator of the remark intended it to be racist or not. I DO NOT LIKE THIS PRACTICE BECAUSE IF A PERSON'S REMARK IS LABELED RACIST, THAN A TRANSFER OFTEN OCCURS WHERE THE PERSON MAKING THE REMARK IS AUTOMATICALLY LABLED A RACIST AS WELL!

In this particular instance a battle ensued to convince us that the word was created as evil and racist from the outset of its point of origination.

DOES A WORD HAVE AN INDEPENDENT MEANING OF ITS OWN, REGARDLESS OF THE USER'S INTENT OR DOES THE WORD MEAN WHAT THOSE USING THE WORD CHOOSE TO AGREE IT MEANS?

That is really the issue that is at stake here and not just the meaning of one particular word.

Lakey
Click to expand...


I am that poster!

Had I used the Italian invective, moolie, that would lead toward racism because that word can be seen used with a degree of disdain.

Calling another something like "racist" is often used to stop the communication. Implications that an auditor is violating the Auditor's Code in some way, outside of session, is another effort to stop the communication. But these are not the only examples.

This is an argument for "Man is basically good." Not wishing to do harm, a person will often stop what they are saying or doing to check the validity of the accusation. The stop might be just temporary, but that's long enough to have the intended effect.

I mentioned "mulatto" once until now. But the subject goes on and on. Had no one, primarily Mr. Baker, gotten their knickers in a twist the subject would have died in my one post.

That's okay. There is great value in the lengthy post from links provide on the origins of the word. On the second link, people who really are mulatto, as is Obama, voiced their opinions of the word. Some were offended, some were not.

Some of the most beautiful bodies walking the planet are of mixed heritage. In that regard, Obama is not one of them.

When I post about Obama it is my hope that people will take a look at what we now know about the man. He won the last election, not on his record of performance for that did not exist. He won because people wanted "change," and no more Bush or anything related to Bush such as the Republican Party.

Being mulatto has no bearing on Obama's performance or allegiances. It has no bearing on his ethics. It has no bearing on his humanity. His divisive nature speaks volumes. Today I heard him talking down to corporate jet owners who are now starting to use their jets again. Obama wants to tax them for that while his wife is off on a jet junket to Africa that is costing the taxpayers close to $million. This is like Hubbard feasting on steak and lobster while the crew eats beans and rice. Only, Obama has far greater resources at is disposal. Just look at the man and his record before you vote this next time around.
 
lkwdblds

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: What a writier intends and what is!

Ted said:
I am that poster!

Had I used the Italian invective, moolie, that would lead toward racism because that word can be seen used with a degree of disdain.

Calling another something like "racist" is often used to stop the communication. Implications that an auditor is violating the Auditor's Code in some way, outside of session, is another effort to stop the communication. But these are not the only examples.

This is an argument for "Man is basically good." Not wishing to do harm, a person will often stop what they are saying or doing to check the validity of the accusation. The stop might be just temporary, but that's long enough to have the intended effect.

I mentioned "mulatto" once until now. But the subject goes on and on. Had no one, primarily Mr. Baker, gotten their knickers in a twist the subject would have died in my one post.

That's okay. There is great value in the lengthy post from links provide on the origins of the word. On the second link, people who really are mulatto, as is Obama, voiced their opinions of the word. Some were offended, some were not.

Some of the most beautiful bodies walking the planet are of mixed heritage. In that regard, Obama is not one of them.

When I post about Obama it is my hope that people will take a look at what we now know about the man. He won the last election, not on his record of performance for that did not exist. He won because people wanted "change," and no more Bush or anything related to Bush such as the Republican Party.

Being mulatto has no bearing on Obama's performance or allegiances. It has no bearing on his ethics. It has no bearing on his humanity. His divisive nature speaks volumes. Today I heard him talking down to corporate jet owners who are now starting to use their jets again. Obama wants to tax them for that while his wife is off on a jet junket to Africa that is costing the taxpayers close to $million. This is like Hubbard feasting on steak and lobster while the crew eats beans and rice. Only, Obama has far greater resources at is disposal. Just look at the man and his record before you vote this next time around.
Click to expand...

Fine post Ted. You've said it all. There is nothing more to say on this topic.
Lakey
 
lkwdblds

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: What a writier intends and what is!

freethinker said:
I think it has a lot to do with what the person was educated to believe because for those who have never heard the word it has no conotation at all. Education can be used to "mold" minds. Educational materials and especially history books are not necessarily correct and more often than not, slanted.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, Freethinker. Wow, talking about slanted history books! Going through the K thru 12 school programs from Sept., 1944 to June 1957 as I did, I am sort of a relic from prehistoric times. We were taught that our founding Fathers were great men. We were taught to be patriotic and that the USA was, as Lincoln put it, "the last best hope of mankind."

We were taught that policemen and firemen were good. They even came to our schools and spoke to classes and assemblies. We had just defeated the bad guys, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan but now we were on alert against Soviet Russia.

Families had a Mom and a Dad. Education was mainly grounded in reading, writing and arithmetic. Things were relatively straight forward and made sense.

Fast forward to modern education and most of what I just described is now debunked. The U.S.A. is a terrible country, being the greatest enemy of mankind in the world. It is a partner in crime with the equally evil country of Israel, a country which is illegally occupying Palestian territory with support from the U.S.A. Thomas Jefferson's name is removed as the name of an elementary school because he owned slaves. The police are racist pigs. Moms and Dads are passe and are no better than two Moms or two Dads. Perhaps, even better yet may be having the government raise the children, starting in pre school. Parents mainly just get in the way, teaching the kids religion, morals or a good work ethic or other worthless claptrap.

Yes, it is mainly what we are educated to beleive that molds our opinions. The schools educated me the first part of my life and then the Church of Scientology took over the job and I bought into their crapola, hook, line and sinker.

Now the far left has control of most of the mass media and the centers of education and they are attempting to round out the education for me and others of my generation as well as the generations which came after mine.

I say to hell with the far left and to hell with the Church of Scientology as educators! My education came from my K through 12 schooling plus my parents plus common sense, living life, being a parent and interacting with thousands of people in business and social situations plus reading lots of great literature and hearing tons of great music, both classical and popular..

Graduate School and Finishing School for me has been ESMB! Dialoging with my peers plus those wiser than I here on ESMB has provided education far greater than I could have ever conceived when I first stumbled onto this forum in February of 2009!
Lakey
 
Mark A. Baker

Mark A. Baker

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afaceinthecrowd

afaceinthecrowd

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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

CarmeloOrchards said:
http://blogs.wsj.com/in-charge/2011/06/29/clinton-launches-micro-lending-drive/

I can't figure out how to copy and paste the whole Wall St. Journal article.

The story is about Bill Clinton championing my daughter's projectl at Kiva, a microfinance group headquartered in San Francisco. She originated it, put the partners together, and herded it to reality.
Click to expand...

Hot spit! Way cool, Carmelo!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Saw the story on cable news today...can't remember which channel.:confused2:

So young, so smart, so...so...so chip off the old block.:coolwink:

Our children will lead Us to the future while we BS and tell stories about the past.:yes:

Face:)
 
lkwdblds

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: What a writier intends and what is!

Terril park said:
Muhammed Ali is an excellent example.

Maybe my son will be some day. :)
Click to expand...

HOW ABOUT EURASIAN WOMEN?

When in my 20's in 1967, I was traveling in Holland and noticed that a there were a large number of mixed race citizens living there. The mix seemed to be 50-50 between Dutch and Indonesian.

The Dutch controlled the Dutch East Indies from about 1800 to 1949 with a time out for a few years during WWII when it was controlled by Japan. In 1949, the Dutch East Indies declared independence and became Indonesia.

Many of the young people born there just before WWII in the Pacific or after WWII but before Independence in 1949 must have been brought home to Holland to be raised as Dutch citizens. To me, the men were not especially good looking but the women were gorgeous! Of particularly great beauty were the Javanese women, either pure Javanese or a Japanese / Dutch mixed race.

I have also encountered mixed race people from Hong Kong, probably a mix of the British and the Chinese, who are very beautiful and then I was told that the most beautiful of all can be found in Singapore. There, one gets mixed race people from both Europe on the one hand and China, Indonesia and various surrounding countries on the other.

Its very "racist" and chauvinistic for me to say this but I feel that the natural beauty of women of the Orient may be enhanced by being mixed with a European parent, usually the Father. The mix gains them a little more height, some unusual and striking eye coloring, and some unusual hair coloring and texturing. It yields an exotic look and I like it!
Lakey
 
RogerB

RogerB

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

:biggrin::biggrin:

Hopefully that rude young man will have great difficulty pronouncing the word pfeipff for some time to come :ohmy:

R
 
lkwdblds

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: Wrong Indications/Items

Ted said:
What happens when you try to force a wrong item or indication off on someone:

must-see-video-74-year-old-former-astronaut-buzz-aldrin
Click to expand...

Wow Ted, excellent post!! I enjoyed watching Buzz Aldrin slugging his stalker and then the excellent video clip debunking the debunkers of the moon landing.

I'm curious what happened in the Buzz Aldrin incident. Did his stalker file any charges for being slugged? Heaven knows, he deserved it! Aldrin did everything he could to avoid tension and conflict and the stalker would not let up. Your analogy of a wrong item being enforced is a good one.

The video was quite enlightening. I worked 7 years on the moon shot program as a programmer analyst in the aerospace industry from June 1962 forward. Of course, I was in a junior capacity but was very immersed in my corner of the project. NASA and its contractors possessed the means in personnel, engineers, scientists, programmers, technicians, etc. to accomplish the moon landing and they had virtually enlimited funding to get the job done.

I was good in mathematics but I got to work closely with several others who were "great". You know the almost stereotypical Cal Tech and MIT types. These guys are something to experience, the real rocket jockey type of guys. They have phenomenal subjective understanding of their areas of expertise and they can think and work with their subjects and create further breakthroughs and more advanced practical applications in these areas.

These guys were often similar to the stereotypes in movies when such people are portrayed. They tend to be of super intelligence in Math, Physics, Engineering, etc. but are not automatically brilliant in other areas. Most of them are bright in other areas but nothing out of the ordinary. Two characteristics which made my job very nice were that these scientists were very friendly and also, they did not have big egos nor talk down to others. They were almost always just what you might call, "very nice guys".

Also, I worked one full year in the Houston area, down at Clear Lake City about 30 miles south of Houston at the huge NASA facility. All the astronaughts had offices there including Buzz Aldrin, Gus Grisson, John Glenn and all the others. We would sometimes pass these men in the halls and they would always smile and say hi to us as they passed.

Calling the Moon landings fake takes a certain type of psyche quite similar to the psyches of those people who believe that Elvis is still alive.
Lakey
 
lkwdblds

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: New Book, "Inside Scientology" by Janet Reitman

I read on ESMB yesterday of the publication of the new book, "Inside Scientology" by Janet Reitman. She is well known for writing for "Rolling Stone" magazine and since 2005 has written several articles concerning Scientology.

I ran down to my local Barnes & Noble book store and asked for the book and they had it in stock. It wasn't cheap, about $28 plus tax but I had some time on my hands to read it so I bought a copy.

I have read the first two chapters and so far the book is "delivering the goods" and is every bit as informative and incisive as it promises to be, if not more so!

The second chapter is not too long and covers LRH's life up until just before he started writing the Dianetics book. This chapter covers his early life much more thoroughly than anything else I have read. It presents events chronologically, moving forward in date order.

The author seems to have quite a bit of incite into spotting LRH's motivations, what his state of mind was and what made him tick. Most of his early endeavors did not work out well. For example, he and his parents wanted him to become a Naval Officer and attend the U.S. Naval Academy. He attended Waverly Prep School in Virginia with this aim in mind. He was very poor in math and failed the math portion of a test he took and he was also nearsighted and those two things disqualified him automatically from attending the Naval Acamedy.

The mineral sailing excursion to Puerto Rico in 1931 was Something Hubbard put together, charging college students (about 50 of them) $50 a piece to go on the ship with him. The cruise was sold as a photography shoot for the movie industry but the trip was a big failure and was abandoned with none of its goals achieved.

Hubbard's pulp writing career also was not as universally successful as is generally represented. He was very good at it and met and interacted with many other famous pulp writers but the pay of 1 cent per word was inadequate for even a high producing writer. It was not until he turned to sci-fi writing that became really successful at pulp writing. He was led into that genre in 1939 by publisher John W. Campbell.

And so it goes.... His family, Polly and the two children were virtually abandoned for good by 1939. He did not bother to get a divorce but moved on trying his hand at screen writing in Hollywood and that was not successful either. The years during WWII were also not very eventful nor successful.

He met Jack Parson's in August of 1945 and that started him on his career, leading up to his writing "Dianetcs and ultimately becomming " "Source". The successes which he enjoyed up to 1949 stemmed from mainly two brilliant men, John W. Campbell and Jack Parsons. They gave him the connections which he needed and the impetus to apply his abilities in an effor to smash his name into history.

All of the above is from just the first 2 chapters. The book is very worthwhile so far.
Lakey
 
C

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
Re: Wrong Indications/Items

Ted said:
What happens when you try to force a wrong item or indication off on someone:

must-see-video-74-year-old-former-astronaut-buzz-aldrin
Click to expand...

Actually, Buzz Aldrin has a reputation and history of being a very strange duck.
He was treated for bipolar disorder at one point.
He also claimed copyrights on the NASA owned photos of the Apollo landing.
I've read many books on that program and it is rumored that he was so peeved at not being the first man on the moon that he refused to take pictures of Armstrong. All the photos of the Apollo 11 astronauts on the moon but one are of Aldrin taken by Armstrong.
 
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