The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Smilla]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is no such thing as 'Standard Tech' and never was. 'Standard Tech' is a buzz term used as part of selling Hubbard's mish-mash of mainly borrowed and stolen ideas. By the time NOTS appeared he was demonstrably insane.

To avoid any confusion brought about by using the term 'Standard Tech', I propose a new term which is more accurate and succinct:

Standard Hubbard Indoctrination Technology.

The acronym makes it easy to remember.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

<snip>

To avoid any confusion brought about by using the term 'Standard Tech', I propose a new term which is more accurate and succinct:

Standard Hubbard Indoctrination Technology.

The acronym makes it easy to remember.

No wonder that I love you !

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Face,

One idle thought deserves another idle thought. I had one too.


My point being is that "100% standard tech" has always been a very ephemeral and changing matter and who's to say what we were left with is not equally flawed. What is standard action in one era, one can be hung for doing in the next era.

I'm a little embarrassed about it, but it's taken me a lot of reading and years of observation to see through the built in, hard-wired confusions, contradictions, and discrepancies in "The Tech." For many years, I thought it was me, my lack of understanding. Now I know it's not.

This discussion board and it's fine, intelligent people have really helped me put things in correct perspective. And that's one helluva "release" in itself.

Well, just an idle thought in response to an idle thought. I get them too, Face.

ILove2Lurk

Way cool “idle thoughts”, ILove2Lurk!

It never made sense to me that Dianetics should be used or could be used to a good result on “OT’s”. It was one of my lingering WTF’s re: the “Tech”. I figured that if an “OT” after going through 5A to OTIII still had somatics then either that person hadn’t gone to full EP somewhere in there or there was something somewhere “missing or Flawed” in the “Tech”. I suspected the latter as for so many people to have gotten to OT and still have somatics they wanted handled meant that something was screwy somewhere. My idle thought at the time was; for such a large number of highly trained and experienced folks to have not “made the Grade” somewhere between 5A and OTIII sure looked like something was amiss with the “Tech”.

When the KNOTS stuff came out I knew immediately from the first issue that El Ron had probably returned back to “The Entities” from the early ‘50’s. That made sense to me. Then I had another idle thought; how could El Ron have missed this for so long, especially with all the “OT’s” that were crashing and burning all around?

It was at that point that I began to realize that El Ron didn’t actually have “It” all figured out and that not only was “The Bridge” still under construction, there may well be severe flaws in the “design” and “Construction materials” and Hisself most probably knew that.

This made me real nervous as I had already given nearly of decade of my life to Staff/SO operating from the predicate that “The Bridge” was real. This nervousness was accentuated by the fact that I had been around El Ron enough to know that El Ron wasn’t the “Uber OT de OT’s” that Hisself had conjured for Us as an image.

I, too, am embarrassed by the fact that I let so much “slide by” and gave Hisself the “benefit of the doubt” to the point of utter folly.

I agree, re: this Board. ESMB…whether it be a spoonful of Castor Oil or Chicken Soup…has been good medicine for me.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

No wonder that I love you !

I luv youz touz, Smilla.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I guess I must be about the only guy around here who has actually had auditing from both of them. And I declare that the one is every bit as good as the other. Both are one hundred percent fine.

I was Audited by some of the CL XII's (not Mayo or Walker) and they were all real smooth.

My only reservation re: Walker was from a Sec Check I got from Otto Roos.

Otto's demeanor and delivery of the "Witheld, Suppresed, etc" buttons could get reads from a cadavar.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Being some bits are being throw in here and there...

As far as "perfect" tech goes I remember when I was given an old timer as a PC and was CS'd to run out previous ' bad auditing ' by R3R. The auditor whose ' bad auditing ' I was running out ? L Ron Hubbard.

Then we fast forward to when we can give the PC his items UNLESS the item is so & so !

I never figured out that once someone had attested to OT VII as " cause over life " how it was they could be PTS or have to disconnect from anyone.

While I'm on SPs ( after all, I now R obe ) being their are processes claimed to handle " the SP case " then how come SPs are unleashed on the world when they could be handled?

Wouldn't that eliminate all the awful SPs "trying" to stop the "worlds fastest growing religion' and "mankinds only hope" ?

'jus sayin'

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

When the KNOTS stuff came out I knew immediately from the first issue that El Ron had probably returned back to “The Entities” from the early ‘50’s. That made sense to me. Then I had another idle thought; how could El Ron have missed this for so long, especially with all the “OT’s” that were crashing and burning all around?

Ditto for me in spades. Same sentiments I had back in '80, having been a very experienced auditor at the time.

One perspective that's given me a lot of solace over the years is that I view the whole thing, all 60+ years of it, as a pilot project. And considered as a pilot project, you have to take an unvarnished look around and see what you've ended up with. I know some massive permanent gains were had by some; some hits and some misses; some successes and failures.

Unfortunately, there's no one around anymore to finish the pilot. And that's a fact too.

You look around and see the products of the tech and lack of products of the tech and they're truly as visible as the sky. We all know them, see them, read about them . . . and, well, are them.

Considering all this 60 years of activity as a pilot project, an experiment, an attempt at something, I'm happy to take what good I got out of it and move on with my life. Fortunately for me, I got almost all benefit and very little harm. But that's because of who I am and how I navigated the war and dodged bullets during the years I was very active.

I sat on the hillside for the most part after '78, watching the battle from the safety of a shade tree, except for a few forays onto the battlefield to do a couple of services. Then back to the shade tree.

Anyways in my older wisdom, I'm OK with seeing it as a half completed pilot project that ended in the early 80's in terms of research. And the results of which poured out onto the Internet for all to see in the last decade. Doesn't seem so serious that way. It's a very relaxed, maybe more accurate, point of view about it all.

The people that it's still serious for are the koolaiders. And that's some serious.

In my twilight years, I prefer ice tea. Yep, sure do.

And nice a concerto and memorable sunset.

ILove2Lurk

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I was Audited by some of the CL XII's (not Mayo or Walker) and they were all real smooth.

My only reservation re: Walker was from a Sec Check I got from Otto Roos.

Otto's demeanor and delivery of the "Witheld, Suppresed, etc" buttons could get reads from a cadavar.

Face

I presume a compliment?

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Way cool “idle thoughts”, ILove2Lurk!

It never made sense to me that Dianetics should be used or could be used to a good result on “OT’s”. I was one of my lingering WTF’s re: the “Tech”. I figured that if an “OT” after going through 5A to OTIII still had somatics then either that person hadn’t gone to full EP somewhere in there or there was something somewhere “missing or Flawed” in the “Tech”. I suspected the latter as for so many people to have gotten to OT and still have somatics they wanted handled meant that something was screwy somewhere. My idle thought at the time was; for such a large number of highly trained and experienced folks to have not “made the Grade” somewhere between 5A and OTIII sure looked like something was amiss with the “Tech”.

I'm with you re flaws.

Scn mainly addresses the spirit.

Not the body.

NED addresses both, and can lead to " Clear", however one wishes to define that.

However it seems quite possible to become clear[ and note this could be a state where body matters are not fully addressed, I believe
correct re tech]

And one must then need at some point to address such matters.

NOTs is the current Tech path.

When the KNOTS stuff came out I knew immediately from the first issue that El Ron had probably returned back to “The Entities” from the early ‘50’s. That made sense to me. Then I had another idle thought; how could El Ron have missed this for so long, especially with all the “OT’s” that were crashing and burning all around?

It was at that point that I began to realize that El Ron didn’t actually have “It” all figured out and that not only was “The Bridge” still under construction, there may well be severe flaws in the “design” and “Construction materials” and Hisself most probably knew that.

His tech path[ regardless of other paths often nasty] was an attempt to resolve such matters. IMO

This made me real nervous as I had already given nearly of decade of my life to Staff/SO operating from the predicate that “The Bridge” was real. This nervousness was accentuated by the fact that I had been around El Ron enough to know that El Ron wasn’t the “Uber OT de OT’s” that Hisself had conjured for Us as an image.

I, too, am embarrassed by the fact that I let so much “slide by” and gave Hisself the “benefit of the doubt” to the point of utter folly.

I agree, re: this Board. ESMB…whether it be a spoonful of Castor Oil or Chicken Soup…has been good medicine for me.

Face

Finally, good folk followed the concepts. They were usually smart folk.


Me thee and others.

I suggest there is some truth in what we follow, or followed.

As there are matters which deserve the nearly 4 year protest of anons, the Village Voice and for that matter Marty and his crowd.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I presume a compliment?

Quite the contrary, Terril. I'd rather have a discussion with Hannibal Lecter about the condition of my Liver than have OJR run Prep Check Buttons on me.

Face

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Quite the contrary, Terril. I'd rather have a discussion with Hannibal Lecter about the condition of my Liver than have OJR run Prep Check Buttons on me.

Face

One person that I know and trust who was there most of the time when OJR was around had an extremely low opinion of him.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

One person that I know and trust who was there most of the time when OJR was around had an extremely low opinion of him.

Your friend was looking at him through rose-tinted glasses.

 

[Ted]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It also seems that Life Repair is no longer standard tech.

RTC gradechart: http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html NO LIFEREPAIR.

The EP of any repair program is given in the C/S Series early in the sequence of numbers. From memory, the pc feels great and feels that he/she can get case gain.

"Life Repair" is a marketing thing for newbies. Repair is repair. Repair, as a series of processes or actions, can be run at any time, any place on the pc's overall, major program, i.e. "The Bridge." Pam Kemp built an entire practice on giving "life repairs." As she explains in her talk available on xenutv. Working at the Mission level, I have delivered a lot of Life Repairs. I can tell you that it is more fun than any other auditing I have delivered. Kinda keeps you on your feet and honest because the pc has no grooved-in "now-I'm-supposed-to's."

Given the big letdown for many people who have been pushed into OT-3, 4, 5, 7, I believe a lot of them would be far better off alternating a life repair with living. On a microcosm of that, not requiring major programming usual in a scio repair, an alteration of Clean Slate and SPIEPR would also work wonders on anyone provided they got off on the procedure and did not resist because it is Knowledgism. Scios have many special, trained-in, cultural considerations that can make them tough cases. Like the auditor that doesn't think he knows anything because he hasn't been browbeaten with clay, starrate checkouts, hours of R3R to a wall, degraded correction cycles, Class 8 training, and so on.

:wink2:

 

[Ted]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Way cool “idle thoughts”, ILove2Lurk!

It never made sense to me that Dianetics should be used or could be used to a good result on “OT’s”. I was one of my lingering WTF’s re: the “Tech”. I figured that if an “OT” after going through 5A to OTIII still had somatics then either that person hadn’t gone to full EP somewhere in there or there was something somewhere “missing or Flawed” in the “Tech”. I suspected the latter as for so many people to have gotten to OT and still have somatics they wanted handled meant that something was screwy somewhere. My idle thought at the time was; for such a large number of highly trained and experienced folks to have not “made the Grade” somewhere between 5A and OTIII sure looked like something was amiss with the “Tech”.

When the KNOTS stuff came out I knew immediately from the first issue that El Ron had probably returned back to “The Entities” from the early ‘50’s. That made sense to me. Then I had another idle thought; how could El Ron have missed this for so long, especially with all the “OT’s” that were crashing and burning all around?

It was at that point that I began to realize that El Ron didn’t actually have “It” all figured out and that not only was “The Bridge” still under construction, there may well be severe flaws in the “design” and “Construction materials” and Hisself most probably knew that.

This made me real nervous as I had already given nearly of decade of my life to Staff/SO operating from the predicate that “The Bridge” was real. This nervousness was accentuated by the fact that I had been around El Ron enough to know that El Ron wasn’t the “Uber OT de OT’s” that Hisself had conjured for Us as an image.

I, too, am embarrassed by the fact that I let so much “slide by” and gave Hisself the “benefit of the doubt” to the point of utter folly.

I agree, re: this Board. ESMB…whether it be a spoonful of Castor Oil or Chicken Soup…has been good medicine for me.

Face

That's understandable. I, too, went "WTF?" with all the pre-OT's running Dianetics.

Here's the bottom line: Hubbard gave us a hidden standard. If you use that standard to evaluate the situation it will only leave you going,"WTF?!"

On the other hand, if you revert to the basics, take note of the pre-OTs winning with their R3R, you just have to go with that as being correct in spite of Hubbard's reason that they must move on.

Anecdote: Before the beginning of NOTs delivery at Flag, I was told by one of the pre-OTs receiving services there that the pre-OTs being audited on Dianetics were all telling the C/S, "I am tired of mocking this shit up." So something else had to be developed. I had the same origination on Exp. Dianetics. Process too slow and tired of mocking shit up.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It also seems that Life Repair is no longer standard tech.

RTC gradechart: http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html NO LIFEREPAIR.

Wow, Terril, I did not notice that Life Repair is not on the Grade Chart anymore. That is a tremendous revelation and a huge Red Flag. If C of $ is giving this up, it means they aren't even pretending to follow KSW #1 or to improve people's cases! But when your main line of business is the procurment and renovating of buildings, why would auditing people on Life Repair matter any more?

Out in the field, amongst the Freezoners and Indies, a Life Repair seems to be a major, major action given to all. I heard the length of time estimated for a thorough life repair estimated from 25 to 50 hours of auditing, all the up to being a 2 or 3 year cycle of intensive auditing plus other drills.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ditto for me in spades. Same sentiments I had back in '80, having been a very experienced auditor at the time.

One perspective that's given me a lot of solace over the years is that I view the whole thing, all 60+ years of it, as a pilot project. And considered as a pilot project, you have to take an unvarnished look around and see what you've ended up with. I know some massive permanent gains were had by some; some hits and some misses; some successes and failures.

Unfortunately, there's no one around anymore to finish the pilot. And that's a fact too.

You look around and see the products of the tech and lack of products of the tech and they're truly as visible as the sky. We all know them, see them, read about them . . . and, well, are them.

Considering all this 60 years of activity as a pilot project, an experiment, an attempt at something, I'm happy to take what good I got out of it and move on with my life. Fortunately for me, I got almost all benefit and very little harm. But that's because of who I am and how I navigated the war and dodged bullets during the years I was very active.

I sat on the hillside for the most part after '78, watching the battle from the safety of a shade tree, except for a few forays onto the battlefield to do a couple of services. Then back to the shade tree.

Anyways in my older wisdom, I'm OK with seeing it as a half completed pilot project that ended in the early 80's in terms of research. And the results of which poured out onto the Internet for all to see in the last decade. Doesn't seem so serious that way. It's a very relaxed, maybe more accurate, point of view about it all.

The people that it's still serious for are the koolaiders. And that's some serious.

In my twilight years, I prefer ice tea. Yep, sure do.

And nice a concerto and memorable sunset.

ILove2Lurk

VERY VERY NICE WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS!!! A 60 YEAR PILOT PROJECT WHERE THE RESEARCH ENDED IN THE EARLY 1980'S AND NOW THE TRUE RESULTS, WITHOUT ALL THE HYPE AND PR, ARE COMING OUT ON THE INTERNET. AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC AND BRILLIANT SUMMATION!!!
Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ditto for me in spades. Same sentiments I had back in '80, having been a very experienced auditor at the time.

One perspective that's given me a lot of solace over the years is that I view the whole thing, all 60+ years of it, as a pilot project. And considered as a pilot project, you have to take an unvarnished look around and see what you've ended up with. I know some massive permanent gains were had by some; some hits and some misses; some successes and failures.

Unfortunately, there's no one around anymore to finish the pilot. And that's a fact too.

You look around and see the products of the tech and lack of products of the tech and they're truly as visible as the sky. We all know them, see them, read about them . . . and, well, are them.

Considering all this 60 years of activity as a pilot project, an experiment, an attempt at something, I'm happy to take what good I got out of it and move on with my life. Fortunately for me, I got almost all benefit and very little harm. But that's because of who I am and how I navigated the war and dodged bullets during the years I was very active.

I sat on the hillside for the most part after '78, watching the battle from the safety of a shade tree, except for a few forays onto the battlefield to do a couple of services. Then back to the shade tree.

Anyways in my older wisdom, I'm OK with seeing it as a half completed pilot project that ended in the early 80's in terms of research. And the results of which poured out onto the Internet for all to see in the last decade. Doesn't seem so serious that way. It's a very relaxed, maybe more accurate, point of view about it all.

The people that it's still serious for are the koolaiders. And that's some serious.

In my twilight years, I prefer ice tea. Yep, sure do.

And nice a concerto and memorable sunset.

ILove2Lurk

Mark A. Baker

 

[Veda]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

VERY VERY NICE WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS!!! A 60 YEAR PILOT PROJECT WHERE THE RESEARCH ENDED IN THE EARLY 1980'S AND NOW THE TRUE RESULTS, WITHOUT ALL THE HYPE AND PR, ARE COMING OUT ON THE INTERNET. AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC AND BRILLIANT SUMMATION!!!
Lakey

That's what Captain Bill said. That what Hubbard was doing with Scientology was a sort of pilot program, a test, an experiment, etc.

Captain Bill assumed a benign motivation, a humanitarian objective.

Yet, evidence indicates that Hubbard had a self-aggrandizing long term goal of establishing his own fan(atic) club, one that was supposed to last thousands of years, along with a goal of building monuments to himself, and a goal of carving his name into "hard granite."

Everything else - including some good ideas, and some potentially beneficial counseling procedures - was to distract and fool the faithful, and to keep them members of the fan club, keep them polishing his monuments, and keep them protecting his granite (steel) engraved name.

I hope I haven't disoriented any of you late cogniters.

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It also seems that Life Repair is no longer standard tech.

RTC gradechart: http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html NO LIFEREPAIR.

That's interesting. Wonder who took it out?

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

VERY VERY NICE WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS!!! A 60 YEAR PILOT PROJECT WHERE THE RESEARCH ENDED IN THE EARLY 1980'S AND NOW THE TRUE RESULTS, WITHOUT ALL THE HYPE AND PR, ARE COMING OUT ON THE INTERNET. AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC AND BRILLIANT SUMMATION!!!
Lakey

Yes!!! Absolutely B-R-I-L-L-I-A-N-T ILove2Lurk!

Got a few more things to say but they'll have to wait 'till tomorrow.

Face