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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

People seem to get hung up on beliefs that can't be proven. There's nothing wrong with a belief without proof, as long as you recognise that that's what you have. I have a mezuzah on every doorpost of my house, because I believe that it sanctifies my house. I can't prove that my house has been sanctified, but I believe that it has, and that makes me feel good. The problem creeps in when people want to see proof of something because they feel that there should be proof which doesn't exist, or when they become frustrated by someone demanding proof that the 'believer' doesn't have.

Some things are proof-dependent. I wouldn't take a drug that has no proven safety and efficacy no matter how much my Doctor might believe in it.

When it comes to the spiritual, for me no proof is required - I believe what I believe because I want to believe it, and because it feels true to me, for application in my life.

It doesn't have to be true to anyone else, or validated by anyone else.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

People seem to get hung up on beliefs that can't be proven. There's nothing wrong with a belief without proof, as long as you recognise that that's what you have. I have a mezuzah on every doorpost of my house, because I believe that it sanctifies my house. I can't prove that my house has been sanctified, but I believe that it has, and that makes me feel good. The problem creeps in when people want to see proof of something because they feel that there should be proof which doesn't exist, or when they become frustrated by someone demanding proof that the 'believer' doesn't have.

Some things are proof-dependent. I wouldn't take a drug that has no proven safety and efficacy no matter how much my Doctor might believe in it.

When it comes to the spiritual, for me no proof is required - I believe what I believe because I want to believe it, and because it feels true to me, for application in my life.

It doesn't have to be true to anyone else, or validated by anyone else.

Well, Smilla, I would put it in the terms that you are honoring what you perceive.

And that is a correct thing to do. You don't invalidate what you perceive with your eyeballs, why would/should you invalidate what you perceive spiritually.

Now, I credit the validity of reserving judgement on one's analysis of what is perceived and taking steps to verify by other means . . . but to hell with invalidation of one's own perception!

Rog
 
Re: Ken Ogger, The Pilot speaks from the dead

Pilot'sPosts Z9

[Note by RelayerAnt: What we are sending out is only excerpts and you can see the full Pilot's Posts at http://www.freezoneearth.org/pilot/posts/eframeset.htm]


Knowingness and Creation

Create as top of Know to Mystery Scale

(From Post 34 – August 1998)

This one may be a key breakthrough.

I was thinking about the Know to Mystery scale and wondering how one could learn something sophisticated such as a computer language by knowingness alone without the hard work and experience.

It just didn't seem to me that knowingness would go that high. You can pick up things by knowingness, but I just couldn't imagine it really working at that level of detail. My thought experiment was to consider somebody running "get the idea of knowing the C language" (C is a computer programming language) alternated with "get the idea of not knowing the C language" and my conclusion was that it wouldn't actually yield a knowledge of the language although somebody might have a few good cogs and get their confront up on learning programming.

And yet I pickup new computer languages these days with a careless wave of the hand. I certainly don't bother "learning" them in any formal manner. Using C as an example, when I did start using the language back in the early 1980s, I spent a few hours flipping through Kernigan and Richie's book, glanced at some sample code, and immediately wrote a sophisticated multi-threaded program. Within a few days I was solving problems for supposed C experts at work.

Now of course I already had a dozen other computer languages under my belt, and I knew machine internals well, having done system programming in assembler (machine) language back in the 1970s.

But I do come very close to picking up new computer languages by pure knowingness now that I have lots of experience in the area. Except that it isn't by knowingness. It can't be or else you could get to this state simply by drilling knowingness.

So what am I really doing when I pick up some new complex computer area in an afternoon? It is not knowingness. I hardly work on that at all.

It is the create button. It is mockup by approximation.

In learning C, for example, I was visualizing what would have to be under the hood, mocking up how the language would have to work, almost creating it and simply staying in agreement with what others had created. Knowing how the machine works and knowing what the language would have to do, you of course know what is there in the language without having to learn it, it is just obvious.

So I went back to the thought experiment and considered whether you could get somebody to know a computer language by running "mockup a computer language", and my feeling was that yes, this one could work if it was taken far enough. Of course this might be a bit out gradient and would probably overrun before you got far enough, but I could see it working in the right direction.

In practice, I am quite capable of inventing a computer language, and picking up an existing one simply means getting enough anchor points and orientation to duplicate what somebody else has mocked up.

I'll bet that somebody who already knows a few computer languages could drill mocking up new ones and turn into a real hotshot.

Where a computer neophyte would fail would be in not doing the mockups in sufficient detail so as to be of comparable magnitude to existing computer languages. Note that I'm not talking here about mocking up a vague symbol of a mass called “a computer language”, I'm actually talking about mocking up a language in all its detail, including a detailed instruction set and parsing rules, because that is the one that gives you the ability to know these languages easily.

The point here is that if you can create them, you can know them.

This puts CREATE as the top button on the Know to Mystery Scale. Starting from static nothingness, you have to Create something first before it can be known.

Ron bounced around a bit on whether Know or Not-Know was the top button on the scale. Putting Not-Know at the top doesn't quite feel right, so one tries to put it between Knowingness and Know-About (learning). But in practice, you generally shift up from leaning to pure knowing without going through a not-know step. And you can shift from Knowing down to leaning by simply going downtone or losing confidence or contracting your space again without manifesting a Not-Know step.

However, moving up to create, there is a natural tendency to do a little bit of a not-know. I don't mean a "blast everything out of existence", but simply that you would ignore the existing computer languages (not-knowing them slightly) so as to mockup a fresh and different one.

And coming downscale from create, after creating something, you would have to not-know it to some degree before you actually needed to do anything to know it (knowing it is an inherent effortless side effect as long as you are at create).

So the top of the Know to Mystery scale is really:

CREATE
NOT-KNOW
KNOW
KNOW-ABOUT

And then it goes downwards (looking etc.) to Mystery as is discussed in other writings.

I had a wonderful experience once when I was being word cleared in session. This was when I was getting set up for expanded grades back in the 1970s. I was a class 4 auditor and grade VA release from the 1960s one process per grade era. My auditor was one of my own former PCs and the C/S also knew that I had been a real hot shot cramming officer.

Everybody involved, including myself, the auditor, and the C/S knew that I probably knew the Scientology materials and definitions better than both the auditor and the C/S did. But the first step of the program required doing all the word lists for any correction list that they might have to use. And since I was grade VA, that meant every word list in existence except for the ones on the Clearing course and OT levels.

So the word clearing was a totally bullshit step which everybody knew was a waste of time, and it was being charged for at the current auditing rates ($50 per hour at that time). The C/S did not dare bypass the word clearing step because that would be squirreling. And we all wanted me to get onto the expanded grades processing. And nobody wanted to give me a lot of bypassed charge on wasting money on unnecessary actions. That quantity of word clearing can easily burn up 25 or 50 hours of auditing.

So we went through those word lists at express train speed. The auditor would say the word and I would say the definition. I wouldn't think about it, I'd just say the first thing that popped into my head and the auditor would just say the next word without stopping to consider whether I was answering correctly. He had confidence that I knew the answers so he wasn't worrying about it. And we weren't worrying about context. It was "Run?" - "Go Fast" rather than "Run?" - "do a process", and it was as fast as we could say the words quickly. So we did about 30 definitions per minute. We went through thousands of words in a couple of hours.

And something wild happened. First of all, I lost all considerations. Then I was just talking from knowingness without looking at any pictures or considering anything. Then there was a moment of stumbling when I realized that I didn't know anything and this was all meaningless. I talked to the auditor a bit about machinery blowing and he indicated an FN on that and then we went back and continued the word lists.

And then I realized that I was just creating definitions and not actually knowing anything, simply inventing without reference to anything. And the definitions just happened to be right but not as a result of looking at or knowing anything. They simply were right because I was postulating that they should be correct and in agreement because I wanted to get through the word clearing action without any time wasting distractions such as looking up words (and I didn't have to look up any in that entire endless list).

At the end of the action I had a floating TA and was in a state of creation above knowingness, but of course I didn't recognize the significance of that or fit it into the K-M scale as I did just now. But it is a great example of what I am talking about in this write-up.

In the Hubbard College Lectures of 1952, Ron talks about how you would learn to fly a plane by visualizing everything that could happen and what you would do about it. He talks about a beginning auditor preparing themselves to do a session in this manner; Visualizing everything that could happen and how to handle it. He certainly saw a bit of this in those early inspired days, but it didn't make it into the general theory or onto the K-M scale. But he does talk at times about learning something by doing mockups to approximate it (I think that that one is even on the study tapes).

So this isn't really new data. But the relative importance has been missed. Seeing it this way as the top of the K-M scale puts a whole lot of things into context and opens up practical applications.

And my thought experiment with the C language points up another key concept. It is not the size or significance of the mockup that is important. It is the amount of detail.

The difference between a child's stick figure painting and a Rembrandt is the detail.

Tesla is said to have visualized the complete AC power generation system in his mind before he wrote down the design of the Niagara Falls generators for Westinghouse to build.

Mozart is said to have composed symphonies in his head, complete in every detail, before setting them down on paper.

The great men in almost every profession are usually notorious for their attention to detail and when you dig further you often find that they had a tremendous ability to visualize things as well.

Recently there has been a discussion of theta size on Clear-l / ACT, with processing about mocking yourself up as bigger and so forth. Now that is nice and getting the idea of being bigger and smaller alternately is certainly a good process. A thetan's ability to reach and to have space is definitely one of the monitoring factors and you can get a big fast gain that way.

But this factor of details is why you don't get an OT simply by having the person be bigger and permeate things. He is simply not up to mocking up the quantity of details necessary for good perception and control. If you get the idea of being as big as the galaxy (which is fun and interesting), you probably get a vague blur rather than precisely visualizing the details of 3 billion star systems (yes it is that many).

Now don't let this discourage you. It is a gradient like everything else. It starts slowly, but you grow by quantum jumps rather than linearly by one item at a time. Once you can handle a certain level of detail, then you can handle it. Once you can hold one musical composition in your mind in detail, then you can do them endlessly, like Mozart. It’s only the first one that's hard.

Do the usual attention drill (a locational, as in Self Clearing process 1.1) spotting individual points on objects. Then as a second step, spot and hold points, keeping the previous points while adding a new one so that you can hold multiple points simultaneously.

Do mockups and see how many details you can put into them. Do it occasionally getting a little more detail each time.

Go ahead and permeate a big city and see how many individual buildings you can hold in your mind at once. Try it occasionally and keep pushing the number up.

Listen to complex music and follow individual lines. Then listen again and try to follow multiple lines at once and see how many you can get.

Study something complex and work on getting more and more of it into your mind at once.

There are lots of things that you can do here and there are many ways to work them into the ordinary activities of your life so that they build up naturally and easily.

And there are quantum jumps where you start getting collections of detail as a unit without loosing sight of the detail. Think of reading. You probably get “The Cat” as a single unit rather than as 6 letters or two words. And yet you probably do see and know all the letters. Just contrast that with the first time learning experience of sounding out all the letters and composing words while reading something.

I wonder how it would work to just have kids mockup words and how to spell them and to write them down without inval or eval and just keep them at it until something gives way. Then you would just have to orient them to what the currently agreed upon words and spellings are. This is just in theory, but it might turn on a fantastic learning ability.

You raise your ability to handle detail by rolling up your selves and handling details. If you do this consciously in present time without putting it on circuit, it soon jumps to being able to handle packages of details.

Part of our downfall may have been that we decided that there were too many details and it seemed overwhelming or too boring and so we put the details on automatic so that we wouldn't have to confront them. But if it is on automatic, your confront never comes up and you don't get that jump up to handling quantities of detail easily.

I would say at this point that theta horsepower is primarily monitored by how many details you can mockup and hold. If you want to be god, you better plan on tracking every sparrow that falls.

So the top of knowingness is the Create button, and the monitoring factor is how many details you can create.

I'm sorry if this sounds like work. It can be rough getting started. But at the top of the scale it’s lots of fun to mockup lots and lots of details.

Affinity,
The Pilot
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

BTW - Was that you in the picture with the two guys on board the Bolivar? My God, what an awesomely gorgeous woman!! Just walking the streets of San Francisco, the odds are that she would have been discovered and signed to modeling or acting contract.
Lakey
PS: Hats, did you ever get the photos of my cat Bella, the one who looks like your cat Rocky I sent them to you by private email about 3 weeks ago and you never acked receipt.

Nope. Not me. Thanks though for the compliment Lakey. I was a young teen at the time that photo was snapped.

I will check my other email for the kitty pics. I was wondering when you would post them here on the board. I checked my Facebook friends last night too. I was being patient.

Thanks,

Hats

Oh, the reason I posted that lermanet excerpt was because it says that the Bolivar was later renamed the Excalibur. That must be an error. Yes..
http://www.lermanet.com/scottmayer/
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That is entirely possible — and entirely irrelevant. Things do not and should not get into school science curricula because there exists evidence for them that is recognizable by archangels. They do and should get into science curricula because, and only because, there is evidence for them that is recognizable by humans.

In other words, your argument is a pointless quibble on the definition of 'evidence'. This may be a clever debating tactic, but it verges on sophistry.

Excuse me, you deleted the second part of my post to you when you replied to my post. In that part of my post, I stated that I was going to use your own argument against you. All I did was to take the argument which you were using against me and apply it to the position which you were proposing If there is any sophistry taking place here, you are the one who originated it. Its sneaky of you to reply to only one part of my post and delete the part of it which pointed out that I was using your own argument against you.

I operate above board, I don't have to cut out a portion of another persons post which is unfavorable to me before I reply to him to state my counter argument.

One evidence of intelligent design which I like to cite is the manner in which water cools. As it cools, it gets more dense, all the way down from steam, 212 degrees to near freezing, 39 degrees. If it continued down to freezing itself, our ecosystem would not work. Ice would be heavier than water and would fall to the bottom of lakes and oceans and layer upon layer of heavy ice would build up in the bodies of water curtailing the ability of fish and and all other sea life from being able to survive. Many large bodies of water would become frozen and remain that way.

However, at 39 degrees (7 degrees before freezing) something strange happens, water starts to get less dense instead of continuing to get more dense. There is no particular reason or explanation for this. It doesn't necessarily happen for other liquids but it happens for water. This is very, very fortunate for all life on Earth. At 32 degrees, when freezing occurs, the ice is less dense than the water and instead of going to the bottom and causing an entire lake to freeze from the bottom up, the ice floats on top of the water, allowing all the life forms below the ice to keep on living instead of freezing to death inside the ice.

Knowing about this effect provides an excellent piece of evidence of intelligent design. To paraphrase S of T, God or trans-intelligence did, in this instance, actually leave a smudge or a fingerprint when it designed this phenomena.

One of the things which I thought was workable in Scientology was Hubbard's Obnosis Drill. The verb, to "obnose" was defined by Hubbard as "Observing the Obvious". One merely looks and observes what is there - there is no more to it than that. Any human being can go to almost any place on Earth and look and see evidence of intelligent design.

If two people can't agree on what is obvious when observing the obvious, there is no basis for meaningful communication between to occur between them. Often one side will start accusing the other side of being a purveyor of pointless quibble and clever but dishonest arguments. I will never do that and and when someone has to resort to name calling and put downs as a means to attempt to dominate a debate, I feel it is best to end things right there, at least on this one topic.

You are a lot of fun to engage in discussions and debates and I learned quite a bit and enjoyed it, ditto for TAJ. I am willing to give it a go again on a new topic but on this topic I am opting out.
Lakey
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That is entirely possible — and entirely irrelevant. Things do not and should not get into school science curricula because there exists evidence for them that is recognizable by archangels. They do and should get into science curricula because, and only because, there is evidence for them that is recognizable by humans.

In other words, your argument is a pointless quibble on the definition of 'evidence'. This may be a clever debating tactic, but it verges on sophistry.

Correction: it is neither clever nor even sophistic, much less sophisticated or insightful. It was, as you suggested in your prior post, simply ignorant.

Good luck getting that duplicated, though. :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Nope. Not me. Thanks though for the compliment Lakey. I was a young teen at the time that photo was snapped.

I will check my other email for the kitty pics. I was wondering when you would post them here on the board. I checked my Facebook friends last night too. I was being patient.

Thanks,

Hats

Oh, the reason I posted that lermanet excerpt was because it says that the Bolivar was later renamed the Excalibur. That must be an error. Yes..
http://www.lermanet.com/scottmayer/

Hats -
FoTi gave me an excellent cook book type of instruction Hat to post photos on ESMB almost 2 years ago. I put up about 7 albums on ESMB with ease. Now I went to put up my cat photos but since then ESMB closed down and reopened with a new format, and I hadn't put any albums up for well over a year. Combine those two things and I tried to post my cat pictures here but couldn't get it to work.

FoTi, can you do a new photo instruction Hat for me? You know how it goes, people my age usually are not very computer literate.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Correction: it is neither clever nor even sophistic, much less sophisticated or insightful. It was, as you suggested in your prior post, simply ignorant.

Good luck getting that duplicated, though. :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker

Well, its better to state your true position instead of using innuendos and the little icons to show your frustration. As long as a person states his honest feelings, I think it is a good post. I already knew what you thought of me, this is nothing new but its good that you say it direct. I will return the favor below.

Much of what you say I feel is sick or crap but well over 50% of what you write I think is excellent. It doesn't bother me one iota that you feel the way you do about me.

For what its worth, I think you are a nice guy and very intelligent but I can't stand being around you socially. My main beefs are that you are too pedantic and too secretive. You are just not my type of guy but in some odd way I admire you. I feel that you have contributed a lot to ESMB, also you have been a very good friend and defender of Candy, who is also a friend of mine. That's my honest take on you! Have a nice life!
Lakey
 
author unknown

The core of case is the target, and this core is a moment of disruptive loss, the moment of moving from co-creation and a shared beingness to other-creation (the loss of the shared beingness). This is what results in the assumption of synthetic beingnesses (valences) and created shared beingnesses (“entitity case”, i.e., “demon circuits”).
GPM’s are the result of the other-creation and the attendant assumption of being opposed, occasioned by the loss of co-creation (shared beingness) the resultant counter-creation is an attempt at containing a continuum with the ex-co-creator.

The huge, basic charge is loss of shared beingness, which is loss of occupying the same space, which is loss of love, the pinnacle of ARC.

Valences are created primarily to try to attract or have co-creation with another. Failing this, valences are created to have counter-creation, which still maintains an active relationship.

Any processing directed at removing valences should be complimented with ARC processes in the direction of rehabilitating the being’s ability to experience love.

Possible techniques: F0, “What could you love about yourself”,
F3 “What could another or others love about another or others?”
F2 “What could another love about you?”
F1 “What could you love about another?”
(In this “reverse order”).
It could be run using specific terminals in one’s environment, e.g., “What could you love about yourself in the presence of ______?”
“What could ______ love about another”, “What could another love about _____?”
“What could you love about ____?”
“What could ____ love about you?”
 
Re: author unknown

... GPM’s are the result of the other-creation and the attendant assumption of being opposed, occasioned by the loss of co-creation (shared beingness) the resultant counter-creation is an attempt at containing a continuum with the ex-co-creator. ...

Not sure what you meant by the above statement. Is it possible you meant to say: GPM’s are the result of the other-creation and the attendant assumption of being opposed, occasioned by the loss of co-creation (shared beingness) the resultant counter-creation is an attempt at continuing a continuum with the ex-co-creator. Or is something else intended?


Mark A. Baker
 
Re: author unknown

Not sure what you meant by the above statement. Is it possible you meant to say: GPM’s are the result of the other-creation and the attendant assumption of being opposed, occasioned by the loss of co-creation (shared beingness) the resultant counter-creation is an attempt at continuing a continuum with the ex-co-creator. Or is something else intended?


Mark A. Baker

you are correct. my error
 
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Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: author unknown

Thanks for the clarification. I found that post to be a particularly insightful one well worth deeper consideration for the principle it illuminates as well as actually auditing on it. Thanks for that too.


Mark A. Baker

I find TROM to be very illuminating in this regard. What Carmelo posted aligns exactly with what is described there, except only that Carmelo's unknown author is a lot more verbose and hard to access.
 
Re: author unknown

I find TROM to be very illuminating in this regard. What Carmelo posted aligns exactly with what is described there, except only that Carmelo's unknown author is a lot more verbose and hard to access.

It's a word doc that I found on an old old old hard drive (probably early 1990s). for all I know the author is me. I think I try to save authors signatures on purloined writings. There wasn't a reference. I don't think this is Ted, Alan, John Mace, John McMaster, Jack Horner. I can't think who else would have written it, that I would save it with no attribution.

It led me to reconsider the discussion I had with Trouble the other day.

see (starting here)

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...about-Hubbard.&p=694133&viewfull=1#post694133

Synthetic valence is another word for "FAKE."

I have to say, I wasn't a dilettante Scientologist. I was a fake Scientologist. I personally never bought the full package. It (Scientology) was better in many regards than my own observations and abilities, but it asked for compromises in my perceptions and integrity that I only grudgingly made, and only in not rocking the boat. I held onto my versions of truth. I always saw myself as an outsider, not a real Scientologist. I held critical opinions of LRH and the tech and ethics stuff from day one.

Prior to Scientology a friend and I sat most days of the week for years, just looking at one another, without speaking. We got huge off that. We returned daily to a oneness with each other.

attachment.php


(It is nearly 2 AM, I wish I wouldn't have these dumb cognitions in the middle of the night)

TR0 was always confronting for me, never oneness. Always individuated. I knew it to be completely inferior to what my friend(s) and I did before Scientology.

When my friend, pictured above, decided to join the Sea Org, I offered to pay for her auditing and training if only she wouldn't join. It was quite important to me that she didn't join. She did anyway, and it was OK, she left several years later. We're still close friends and buddies.

When I was 15, I hit the truth **for myself** that love was the most important thing.

I never accepted survival as the basic principle of existence. It just wasn't true. Still isn't. It belongs on a scale, but so do death and taxes. BFD

The first time I saw / read goldenrod, I was appalled. I never got over my complete disagreement with that. I was a child of Stranger in a Strange Land. "Thou art god," was my mantra, not, "you are an SP and I'm OK."

I loved and continue to love auditing, but not all the auditing I saw was beneficial. OT 3 was, and remains to this day harmful at best.

Then there were the retaliatory actions taken on people when an auditor found something from a PC that bugged them. I had a girl friend, who got sent to ethics after she criticized an auditor's daughter. It was totally malicious.

This picture is my wife with a granddaughter.

attachment.php


When I had been "in" Scientology for about two years. I wasn't Clear yet. There was a girl about 5 or 6 (like the girl above), sparkly and nice, living with friends, because her parents were divorced. She used to sit on my knee, and I read to her. Then her dad took her away to the Apollo. She became a Commodore's Messenger. One night at 2 AM, she fell asleep outside Ron's room. he found her, and had her put in the chain lockers for several days. There is now and never was any way I could reconcile that action. The anger it triggers in me as I type this hasn't dissipated in 40 years.

So I got terrific gains, of a permanent nature from Scientology, but the best I could do was remain aloof, and be a fake. It is not good to go through life faking it.

[video=youtube;TJjpVlFHyqU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJjpVlFHyqU[/video]
 
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Re: author unknown

... So I got terrific gains, of a permanent nature from Scientology, but the best I could do was remain aloof, and be a fake. It is not good to go through life faking it. ...

Like you I kept my own counsel and remained somewhat aloof, preferring my own understanding of my studies & experiences to the explanations or interpretations of others. Unlike you I don't consider that qualifies me as a 'fake scientologist' as that approach is consistent with the stated principles of the subject of scientology, whether or not hubbard actually meant what he said :).

For me the fakes have always been those who chose to accept the 'Revelation of Orthodox Hubbardism' in the form of hubbard's views, command intention, SO/Org dictat, or group peer pressure in place of their own judgement. By doing so they effectively abandoned their responsibility for making their own decisions, preferring instead conformance to the group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qANMjwLmo6Y

From what you say, I don't see that you ever made that choice. Ergo, I don't see you as a fake.


Mark A. Baker
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ant,

Thanks for that Pilot's piece "Knowingness and Creation" . . .

There's some very good info in it that should help many.

One of the things I have observed over the years which aligns with The Pilot's thing of blowing all the mechanics of using the mind to look for "definitions and meanings" of words is this: my observation is that words, whether written or spoken, are actually representation symbols for concepts. That is, words are symbols that represent concepts . . . and of course, above concepts one has the creative act that brought such into being.

Rog
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: author unknown

The core of case is the target, and this core is a moment of disruptive loss, the moment of moving from co-creation and a shared beingness to other-creation (the loss of the shared beingness). This is what results in the assumption of synthetic beingnesses (valences) and created shared beingnesses (“entitity case”, i.e., “demon circuits”).
GPM’s are the result of the other-creation and the attendant assumption of being opposed, occasioned by the loss of co-creation (shared beingness) the resultant counter-creation is an attempt at containing a continuum with the ex-co-creator.

The huge, basic charge is loss of shared beingness, which is loss of occupying the same space, which is loss of love, the pinnacle of ARC.

Valences are created primarily to try to attract or have co-creation with another. Failing this, valences are created to have counter-creation, which still maintains an active relationship.

Any processing directed at removing valences should be complimented with ARC processes in the direction of rehabilitating the being’s ability to experience love.

Possible techniques: F0, “What could you love about yourself”,
F3 “What could another or others love about another or others?”
F2 “What could another love about you?”
F1 “What could you love about another?”
(In this “reverse order”).
It could be run using specific terminals in one’s environment, e.g., “What could you love about yourself in the presence of ______?”
“What could ______ love about another”, “What could another love about _____?”
“What could you love about ____?”
“What could ____ love about you?”

This looks very much like a John MacMaster piece.

He too was big into LOVE as being the most important aspect/thing/action of existence. And I well remember his speaking of the issues of co-existence and co-create and the upsets at the loss and departure from them. We had private chats on these issues.

Love is an important item for many folks: for some it is THE most important . . . . but not so for all folks. Others have as their most important "thing" in the game of life as being other items such as knowledge, truth, creation, relationships/alignment, etc., etc.,

Hence, the error in the above piece is that it tells everyone what is true for them . . . and that is always a wrong move . . . Hubbard made that egregious error.

It is wiser to present one's personal discoveries and "importances" as relative. This way others can relate to the datum and fit such correctly in relative terms in accordance to their order of importances.

It is for this reason that when I write what I have to say on "tech" issues, I preface them with "in my observation" . . . for I well know others likely observe differently! :melodramatic:

Rog
 

FoTi

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Hats -
FoTi gave me an excellent cook book type of instruction Hat to post photos on ESMB almost 2 years ago. I put up about 7 albums on ESMB with ease. Now I went to put up my cat photos but since then ESMB closed down and reopened with a new format, and I hadn't put any albums up for well over a year. Combine those two things and I tried to post my cat pictures here but couldn't get it to work.

FoTi, can you do a new photo instruction Hat for me? You know how it goes, people my age usually are not very computer literate.
Lakey

Lakey....I'm not any more computer literate than you are. If there is a new format, I don't know anything about it or how it works. I haven't posted any pics on ESMB for over 2 years. Maybe you could get Emma or one of the admins to help you or PM someone who posts pics here, like Hat or Carmelo. There is an image icon in the bar right above the area where you can make a post....it's the square icon just to the right of the envelope icon......looks like all you have to do is enter the image URL....maybe from your pics in your computer? Might give it a try.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: Academia - its Views and Methods

Debating Academia

I want to make these last comments regarding debating Academia because I feel they are important.

Academia refers to our modern day Universities and those well educated there. I want to cover two areas in the Universities, #1 Politics and #2 Origins of the Universe. My opinions are generalities - certainly there are exceptions.

Politics and History - Academia teaches a Marxist leaning approach; they believe in a strong central government run using Keynesian economics with the government usurping some individual freedoms in an effort to maintain order and spread the wealth in a fair manner to all. Those in charge feel they know best and they are not interested in other points of view. To them, history shows that the other points of view have all failed and are not worth listening to.

If someone vehemently holds to viewpoints other than theirs, they tend to consider this person evil and they will do whatever it takes to either convert him to their way of thinking or, if that fails, they will dead agent him.

Origins of the Universe - All the same things apply except that they don't necessarily consider you evil. Instead they consider you dishonest, tricky or ignorant.

Being involved with this now with TAJ and S of T there was a short period of debate, where they tried to win me over and when that was not successful, S of T then switched over to name calling and impugning by motives by calling my debate tactics dishonest.

USING IGNORANCE AND DISHONESTY INSTEAD OF EVIL Its hard to accuse someone of being evil merely because they believe differently about how the universe was formed. Therefore they use other terms such as dishonest and misleading instead. MAB jumped in and used ignorance. I don't object to that as much because if he feels that way he has a right to say it but the other terms impugn my motives and I believe that is unjust.

DESTABILIZING AN OPPONENTS IDEAS - People can walk outside and take a look - immediately they are bombarded with evidence of intelligent design. For those who know a little science there are other more specific evidences such as the manner in which water freezes. The Academics handle this by attempting to knock out a person's stable datum.

They say, that your sensory perceptions are too limited, what you see as evidence is not evidence, they brag that they have a PHD so you must agree with them, you are just a kibbitzer and have no business debating them, etc. Finally if they don't get anywhere, they go in two directions, they either say you are dishonest and are attempting to trick people or make the stronger assertion that you are ignorant.

This would make sense if what they were offering in opposition to your views was superior knowledge but it isn't! A lot of it is just made up crap, designed to make things too complex to challenge. The worst thing you can do in their eyes is to just look and use common sense. To them, if you do that you are a complete Neanderthal, a completely ignorant person. Invalidate the human senses , invalidate human intelligence, say evidence isn't really evidence, introduce the ultimate "Authority", a Trans-Intelligence which is so totally beyond human intelligence that it can no longer even be called intelligence.

These things do not evoke superior knowledge. They are ad hoc creations designed to knock out an opponent's stable datum so as to get him to shut up.

If they pulled my stable datum out from under me and replaced it with something more sound, I would join up with them immediately and sign up for classes. Instead they replace them with very questionable complexities which only serve to confuse the issue.

The tip off as to what is happening is that when they can't get one's agreement they need to resort to personal attacks and dead agenting of their opponents. That is the tip off that what they have to offer is not good. Did Einstein react to his opponents with dead agenting and personal attacks? Of coure not, he knew what he was talking about. Think about that!
Lakey
 
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