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The Major Flaw in Knowledgism

Alex,
In your effort to pour shit on Knowledgism, you have made at least one mistake. At least one of the 'front groups' you list is NOT in anyway connected to Alan Walter or Knowledgism - as I know the guy involved personally:

http://www.spirit-intelligence.com/ David R J Powell

Although with your recommedation, he could get quite interested!

Regards, Allen
 
RogerB said:
Alex says:


I see no mention of $150 on this link . . . what's the angst about money for Alex.

And "EdisonLearning" http://www.edisonlearning.com/
Has nothing to do with Knowledgism . . . . what is your source or reason for this falsehood?

Roger
Click to expand...

Ok how much is it?

It is free from some knowledgists sites...

http://www.knowledgism.com/profile/

Regarding Edison Learning the connection was that some knowledgists were involoved.

Perhaps like some scientologists are involved in Applied Scholastics?

One of course wonders, that you pick that to respond to if there is no connection.

Yet still do not respond substantively to the whole theme of the thread.
 
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ULRC/S said:
Alex,
In your effort to pour shit on Knowledgism, you have made at least one mistake. At least one of the 'front groups' you list is NOT in anyway connected to Alan Walter or Knowledgism - as I know the guy involved personally:

http://www.spirit-intelligence.com/ David R J Powell

Although with your recommedation, he could get quite interested!

Regards, Allen
Click to expand...

Pour shit on knowledgism? I voiced my opinion of its major flaws. Knowledgists are welcome to rebut them, but instead choose to impugn me or offer general PR about knowledgism that does not address my statements.

Knowledgism IS derivative of scientology. It uses similarly deceptive methods to recruit.

I have first hand experience with its founder of being abused.

If Mr Powell would like to email me I would be glad to remove the reference to him. I think I was careful to include only people I found substantive links to knowledgism. I could of course, have erred, and if so my apologies.
 
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Ahhh... More Deceit

alex said:
Ok how much is it?

It is free from some knowledgists sites...

http://www.knowledgism.com/profile/

Regarding Edison Learning the connection was that some knowledgists were involoved.

Perhaps like some scientologists are involved in Applied Scholastic?
Click to expand...

It's the "Effective Life Plan" (a total package of services that includes both the Life & Skills Analysises) that costs $150 . . . not the "OCA type test" alone you falsely presented as costing $150.

As to Edison . . . who . . . . otherwise remove the falsehood.

Roger
 
Lower the sensitivity setting then...

alex said:
Pour shit on knowledgism? I voiced my opinion of its major flaws. Knowledgists are welcome to rebut them, but instead choose to impugn me or offer general PR about knowledgism that does not address my statements.

Knowledgism IS derivative of scientology. It uses similarly deceptive methods to recruit.

I have first hand experience with its founder of being abused.

If Mr Powell would like to email me I would be glad to remove the reference to him. I think I was careful to include only people I found substantive links to knowledgism. I could of course erred, and if so my apologies.
Click to expand...

Alex, I had not thought you to be particularly thin-skinned, downtrodden, abused or overly sensitive - and the role of victim does not suit you well, IMHO. :no:

And how are you so sure it is deceptive? Have there been any complaints or demands for refunds, repayments or damages? Do you know? :confused2:

Plus, BTW - how is your zorch these days? :p

Regards,

EP
 
RogerB said:
It's the "Effective Life Plan" (a total package of services that includes both the Life & Skills Analysises) that costs $150 . . . not the "OCA type test" alone you falsely presented as costing $150.

As to Edison . . . who . . . . otherwise remove the falsehood.

Roger
Click to expand...

Sorry I will not single out individuals who are not promoting themselves. I'll remove it.

SO HOW MUCH IS IT TO GET THE TEST GRADED???

How much is it for both tests? Why is this not clearly stated on the test page?
 
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EP - Ethics Particle said:
Alex, I had not thought you to be particularly thin-skinned, downtrodden, abused or overly sensitive - and the role of victim does not suit you well, IMHO. :no:

And how are you so sure it is deceptive? Have there been any complaints or demands for refunds, repayments or damages? Do you know? :confused2:

Plus, BTW - how is your zorch these days? :p

Regards,

EP
Click to expand...

Thanks for asking....

As with scientology the statistics of refunds and repayments from knowledgism are not readily available.

My comments on deception were in reference to how knowledgism practicioners use business coaching to lure people to the broader subject.

I have noticed a pattern, some guy gets all blown out at the ranch and sets up a business, puts up a website and WRITES A BOOK. I'll bet Alan has a bulletin on writing a book to give credibility. And then the different knowledgists link to each others books.

But no where do they say that you will end up spending tens of thousands of dollars, and end up making teams of what are referred to in other circles as dead space aliens.

You are bright enough to see how this can be deceptive.

Scientology has W.I.S.E. and its dentists and chiros, knowledgism has its mortgage brokers and consultants.

(I apparently have an unhandled pain in it)
 
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alex said:
Forrest for the trees...or some reciprocal...or the elegant simplicity or some aspect?

Please point me in the right direction.

The processes that address entities are certainly not on the site. And I have seen reference to series of bulletins and such that are not even mentioned on the website or otherwise available to a non knowledgist.

I do admit that I have a problem sometimes thinking outside the scientology construct. It spoiled my experience of idenics.

Frequently real simple stuff really is the most important...

?? Links? Clues?
Click to expand...

Well, IMO, the games matrix stuff is fairly electric reading material - most if not all of that was all posted on this board a while back too.

It is true that a lot of nitty gritty detail - like exact commands for processes are not on that site - for various reasons I guess. However, while such info is useful, even vital of course if one is groping in the dark, it is largely useless without the necessary understanding.

You are right that some of the most simple stuff is the most important.

And you are also right that thinking outside the Scn construct is difficult for many of us having had years of seeing all religious/spritual/self betterment subjects through that paradigm. It is not really that Kn says that much that is truly different to Scn (which is one of the main reasons why people like us have trouble with a subject like Kn). More that there is just a different emphasis and one needs to really try hard to study it with fresh eyes.

It seems that the same might be said in respect of Idenics also.

I think I should say that I do not get any commission from Alan or anybody affiliated to him - nor have I so much as bought a book from his organisation. Nor from Idenics either.

The only other thing I might usefully say is, "What is advanced?" What does it mean that certain material is "advanced". IMO Scns have very very distorted ideas about this. In the CoS it means material which you are not allowed to see until you've a) paid and b) jumped through the hoops to get there and c) have subscribed to the notion that there is a Bridge that has discreet "Levels" and certain "Levels" come after others i.e they follow a nice orderly sequence. While it may be true that things, for most people, tend to go roughly in a sequence, it may well not be true for all and, even for those it is true for may find that they need to take a few diversions along the way. Thus I think the notion of "advanced" is perhaps a poor one. What is actually true is that there is "appropriate" material for any one person at any one time. Thus what I think is advanced may not be the same for others anyway!

Nick
 
A Cup of Tea, Zen Koan

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
 
alex said:
No DB this is beyond money...

But I can understand the cognitive dissonance this could cause you.
:)
Click to expand...


I don't know if it would be beyond money.

Money may not be the most important part of it. But if there was no money, then what would happen?


Are we becoming team mates Alex? Strange thought.
Anyway, what really is your bitch with Allan? Do you hate him because
he disses the great elron? Is elron an "ally" to you. I remember the term "ally" from (I think), DMSMH.
 
uniquemand said:
I think he's saying that the quest for more dollars is a MEST trap.
Click to expand...

Yes. Wonderful how we can go all over the universe and dissect it all and know all there is to know about what is and what isn't - stuff the gods themselves would love to know, and then (if your interpretation is correct)
a cult inanity.
 
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degraded being said:
Yes. Wonderful how we can go all over the universe and dissect it all and know all there is to know about what is and what isn't - stuff the gods themselves would love to know, and then (if your interpretation is correct)
a cult inanity.
Click to expand...


The Church of Scientology is trapped in the allure of dollars. It once was looked upon as a resource to help clear the planet. But now it has become a goal in itself with a view to have power over others.

.
 
Vinaire said:
The Church of Scientology is trapped in the allure of dollars. It once was looked upon as a resource to help clear the planet. But now it has become a goal in itself with a view to have power over others.

.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Nothing new about that as far as Ron was CON-cerned though.
 
alex said:
You and alan and others who bash hubbard, calling him turd, paranoic, drugged etc,

-snip-
Click to expand...

This is what most of the "upset" was really about.

Several more old timers have come forward, confirming Hubbard's long term drug abuse, including while he was the "Commodore" of the Sea Org.

Someone "up lines" doesn't like that at all.

P.S. I hope this thread will be moved to another section. I don't think Knowledgism is a cult.
 
Interestingly, little discussion was had in this thread about the points I raised, and much about my motives, my character and my paymasters.

That is a sign of my successfully having noticed a fairly embedded truth, when the non confront goes into high gear.

I believe knowledgism is a valuable tool, for advancement to a certain point, with some aspects still to be transcended.

Power, control, sovereignty, are in themselves elements of separation from true freedom. They are but one side of a dichotomy. The trap of right and wrong, existence vs not.

True in the limited context, true only there.
 
I've mentioned Alan Walter's Knowledgism to a number of people. Always positively. Though I will say that I have heard that it can be rather pricey.
 
Please continue to expound upon the theoretical problems and basis of KN, Alex. I'm interested. I have read one of Alan's books, I think, but it's been about ten years.
 
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