What's new
By:
Filters

The State of Clear

If only Zinj had enrolled sooner . . .

Zinjifar said:
Sigh. Unfortunately, it's obvious that I can't 'understand Scientology' since I never took a course :)

I musta misst something.

Zinj
Click to expand...

Yes, because as we all know - people who take lots of Scientology courses understand it SO much better.

LOL. Riiiiiight

Or not.

In their defense though, if you had actually taken some courses and been "handled" correctly in ethics and hopefully joined staff for a good 10 or 15 years, I think your would find your "understanding" greatly enhanced. Then all your disagreements could have been properly addressed, your sec checks fully handled and enough FDSing and word clearing applied to break you, I mean make you into a good exec.

I DEFINITELY see some exec material in you. ;)

COB
 
DartSmohen said:
I have successfully rehabbed many people's state of clear where they were doing a wide range of activities; TM, yoga, presence drills, aikido. It does not matter a jot what the person is doing, it is the fact that they have achieved that realization.
Click to expand...


Interesting point (revealed) that seems to lie at the heart of Hubbards philosophy. Which is the imagined/desired 'control' over others.

With all due respect DartSmohen, You did not successfully rehab people, people successfully rehabbed themselves. You were the vehicle, not the source. And the failure to make (realize) this distinction is not without significant consequences.

Which mistake Hubbard himself made (in grand fashion) and which unfortunate consequences are quite clear today.
 
Mojo said:
Interesting point (revealed) that seems to lie at the heart of Hubbards philosophy. Which is the imagined/desired 'control' over others.

With all due respect DartSmohen, You did not successfully rehab people, people successfully rehabbed themselves. You were the vehicle, not the source. And the failure to make (realize) this distinction is not without significant consequences.

Which mistake Hubbard himself made (in grand fashion) and which unfortunate consequences are quite clear today.
Click to expand...

Mind you. it is very refreshing to be present when the veils and scales fall away from the person's eyes and they can own the state. :yes:
 
Very interesting thread! Much more interesting to me than arguing about who is, and who is not, a troll.

I think David Mayo summed this up extremely well in a document he entitled CLEAR. Goes to show that a Class XII C/S, Snr C/S INT was quite capable of thinking for himself. I think his ideas on this are dead on.

"...LRH correctly stated that absolutes are unattainable. And the notion of "clear" is an absolute... To obtain complete Clarity would require a complete as-isness of any universe the thetan was in and a return to complete native state. Everyone does have a reactive mind - his own reactive mind. That's why one flies ruds and goes E/S and gets off BPC on anyone regardless of their point on the grade chart. The mechanics of the reactive mind continue to exist all the way up...

...The truth appears to be that there are various stages of release, at each one of which you are clear-er than you were. A person experiencing the glee of insanity is clear-er than someone who is just completely unconscious. It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were "clear" at a certain point, and that they therefore had no reactive mind. However this assertion is a lie, and a very destructive one, one that denies case gain to a great many people..." - David Mayo
 
Last edited:
Tanstaafl said:
My all-time favourite is someone who reportedly went Clear watching Mary Poppins. :)
Click to expand...
:roflmao:

Crusty Old Bastard said:
I just had to say Zinj - these are both hilarious. Your posts and no-bullshit statements often make me laugh - very nice. I really get a good chuckle, thanks for brining such good natured humor to things.
COB
Click to expand...
I second that emotion. "Sparkle boy" - hahahaha!!

uniquemand said:
Very interesting thread! Much more interesting to me than arguing about who is, and who is not, a troll.
Click to expand...
Wow, UM - This is the second time you cracked me up!! You are heading for the Happy Girl award. Also, thanks for bumping this thread because it was started before my time and I had missed it.
 
uniquemand said:
HG, did you check out Mayo's CLEAR?
Click to expand...

Just found this! No, I had not seen that before. Thanks. I have a friend (still in) that has gone up to OT4 at least, maybe higher. They just told him that he probably did not achieve Clear. He said, "That makes sense," with total BIs. :duh: I wish I could send him this.
 
HappyGirl said:
Just found this! No, I had not seen that before. Thanks. I have a friend (still in) that has gone up to OT4 at least, maybe higher. They just told him that he probably did not achieve Clear. He said, "That makes sense," with total BIs. :duh: I wish I could send him this.
Click to expand...
You can HG - send it to him anonymously "from a friend who cares" or something. If it would communicate to him, then send it to him. :)
 
uniquemand said:
Very interesting thread! Much more interesting to me than arguing about who is, and who is not, a troll.

I think David Mayo summed this up extremely well in a document he entitled CLEAR. Goes to show that a Class XII C/S, Snr C/S INT was quite capable of thinking for himself. I think his ideas on this are dead on.

"...LRH correctly stated that absolutes are unattainable. And the notion of "clear" is an absolute... To obtain complete Clarity would require a complete as-isness of any universe the thetan was in and a return to complete native state. Everyone does have a reactive mind - his own reactive mind. That's why one flies ruds and goes E/S and gets off BPC on anyone regardless of their point on the grade chart. The mechanics of the reactive mind continue to exist all the way up...

...The truth appears to be that there are various stages of release, at each one of which you are clear-er than you were. A person experiencing the glee of insanity is clear-er than someone who is just completely unconscious. It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were "clear" at a certain point, and that they therefore had no reactive mind. However this assertion is a lie, and a very destructive one, one that denies case gain to a great many people..." - David Mayo
Click to expand...

Mayo is confusing the "mind" with the "Self".
A person can become Clear, and have no reactive mind with many, many practices and religions. This does not equate with going into a native state and as-issness of the universe the thetan is in. They are two different things. The mind is in the Self, it is a tool. I also believe the universe is in the Self and not the other way around so the last bit would be bolix to me too.

[edit] and the only reason that lrh said absolutes are unattainable is because once you obtained "clear" ... there really was no real reason to give him any more money. So it had to be unobtainable, that way he got return customers who had "levels" of clear and could be sold the next "level".
 
Ceedia said:
Mmm - not easy.

Maybe if ya sent a bunch of other stuff with it, then the fact that you sent it wouldn't stick out like a sore toe.
Click to expand...
Hahahaha!!! Yeah. I'll bake it into a cake. He'll hardly notice. :) Actually, I'm thinking of sending him a letter generally spilling my guts.
 
Lovesnightsky said:
Mayo is confusing the "mind" with the "Self".
A person can become Clear, and have no reactive mind with many, many practices and religions. This does not equate with going into a native state and as-issness of the universe the thetan is in. They are two different things. The mind is in the Self, it is a tool. I also believe the universe is in the Self and not the other way around so the last bit would be bolix to me too.

[edit] and the only reason that lrh said absolutes are unattainable is because once you obtained "clear" ... there really was no real reason to give him any more money. So it had to be unobtainable, that way he got return customers who had "levels" of clear and could be sold the next "level".
Click to expand...

Very interesting comment. Don't know what you mean by distinguishing mind from self.

Universe in self seems like the factors.

You are clearly wrong re absolutes being unobtainable re COS promo.
Most money sucked up after!
 
Terril park said:
Very interesting comment. Don't know what you mean by distinguishing mind from self.

Universe in self seems like the factors.

You are clearly wrong re absolutes being unobtainable re COS promo.
Most money sucked up after!
Click to expand...

If you cannot distinguish between mind and self, my point is proven.
"Not really" about me being wrong. He just invented OT, which became the new black and was able to relax about Clear.
 
Lovesnightsky said:
If you cannot distinguish between mind and self, my point is proven.
Click to expand...

Don't know what you were trying to prove. Tough area to do by forum.
Lost the thread there.


Lovesnightsky said:
"Not really" about me being wrong. He just invented OT, which became the new black and was able to relax about Clear.
Click to expand...

Its far more complex. OT was commented on from 1952 with PDC lectures for a start.

Is all this stuff useful?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top