Ralph Hilton Mk 4 meter schematics

[Technocrat]

Hello, I've tried to email Ralph Hilton but I didn't get a reply.
I am currently trying to build his Mk4 meter as per his schematics but I am having a heck of a time.

I am trying to make it on a breadboard but am coming across difficulties in converting it over. Call it inexperience.

If anyone here has built one, especially if they've done so on a SOLDERLESS bread board, please please please help me out.
I've built it four times, each time seemingly worse. It's not an overly complex circuit and so that's also bugging me.

I've already sunk in a fair bit of change in acquiring the components in putting this together so I'm not looking for any other design where I have to buy more parts. Since I've only been able to afford one 100ua meter, I'm looking to focus on the one meter option.

I appreciate the help.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I was wondering why we have not seen Ralph lately?

 

[The Oracle]

He is often swamped with PC's and students.

I've heard the waiting room for PC's at his house is often full.

I will see if I can dig his tele number up (will have to look for my phone book in a construction site) and PM it to you.

T.O.

 

[The Oracle]

I just PM'ed his telephone number to you.

T.O.

 

[marty]

Hello, I've tried to email Ralph Hilton but I didn't get a reply.
I am currently trying to build his Mk4 meter as per his schematics but I am having a heck of a time.

I am trying to make it on a breadboard but am coming across difficulties in converting it over. Call it inexperience.

If anyone here has built one, especially if they've done so on a SOLDERLESS bread board, please please please help me out.
I've built it four times, each time seemingly worse. It's not an overly complex circuit and so that's also bugging me.

I've already sunk in a fair bit of change in acquiring the components in putting this together so I'm not looking for any other design where I have to buy more parts. Since I've only been able to afford one 100ua meter, I'm looking to focus on the one meter option.

I appreciate the help.

I built this RH MK4 some time ago and it works ok. I never used it and have moved on to other approaches. I still have the assembly as shown in the photo and only requires the meter and pots (which you have) to complete it. Your welcome to it if you want. PM me.

 

[programmer_guy]

marty,

Just outta curiousity... what is that component in the DIP socket?

 

[marty]

marty,

Just outta curiousity... what is that component in the DIP socket?

Hi PG

Its an LM324 quad op amp. You can see better resolution photos at Ralphs site.

http://www.ralphhilton.org/emeter

 

[Giuseppe]

I am currently trying to build his Mk4 meter as per his schematics but I am having a heck of a time.

Giuseppe wondered how much this to cost please?

Giuseppe have three meters, Giuseppe to know what is profit margin to Co$?

 

[Technocrat]

In response to the phone number: I don't really want to frustrate Ralph over the phone, It's the kind of thing I assume would be easier over the net...

In response to Marty: What are the dimensions of that veroboard and what continent are you on? I would like to take you up on your offer

In response to Giuseppe: (this is a longer answer and I may be wrong)

the Mark V LRH meters are quite similar in construction to Hilton's Mk IV, so the cost is about 25 for the 100ua meter (cheaper in bulk), and then if you can buy the bits and pieces in low quantities you can spend as little as 10 but as far up as 50. Parts are cheap but you have to buy in bulk. So a total could be anywhere from $40 to $120 depending on how lucky you are.

The Mark VI I believe cost GOLD $200 to make?
The Mark VII (I think both super and quantum) cost $400?

The newer ones are over built because of the monitoring hardware built into it, its actually a whole processor.

So for the CoS to ask $4000+....

Of course those new Japanese meters are probably more expensive, if you ever see them.

 

[Technocrat]

I think I have my meter connected right (but I have no evidence of that )

Maybe someone here can clarify the calibration for me?

I've also added a switch to my meters so I can switch between them so

Calibration:

1. Adjust the mechanical zero of the TA meter to 1/20th division below zero. I.E. 0.95 TA.
2. Adjust TR2 so that the TA meter reads 6.5 with no connection to the meter.
3. Connect a 12.5K resistor and adjust TR1 so the the TA meter reads 3.0
4. Short circuit the PC input and adjust TR3 so that the needle is on the dial with the TA pot all the way anti-clockwise.

1. Easy enough.

2. No connection to what? No PC connection? do I short PC? What do I do with the tone arm?

3. Again, what do I do with the tone arm?

4. Easy enough.

And what about the sensitivity knob? Does any one have any idea what approximately the pots should be adjusted to? I can preadjust and then make small ones until its right.

Thanks...

 

[BAYCB]

Along the lines of meters..... I was wondering if anyone has done research on electrodes? At one time foot plates had been in use but were banned due to missed reads and false ta.

Has anyone used any type of head electorodes (not including electric shock ) or any of the type they stick to you when getting an ecg?

I never could get the hang of holding two cans and writing with the other.

Any good ideas on this?

 

[nw2394]

Along the lines of meters..... I was wondering if anyone has done research on electrodes? At one time foot plates had been in use but were banned due to missed reads and false ta.

Has anyone used any type of head electorodes (not including electric shock ) or any of the type they stick to you when getting an ecg?

I never could get the hang of holding two cans and writing with the other.

Any good ideas on this?

Ralph did a lot of experimenting with that sort of thing by having someone on two meters at once:

1) Head electrodes read too deep. You'll throw your PC in over his head.

2) Foot plates and wrist straps miss reads.

3) Finger tip electrodes, however, seem to work well and are very good both solo and also for one on one auditing where the PC is a gesticulator (as they give less body motion reads).

(However, finger tip electrodes are not going to be much use with an old Mk V, for example, as a) finger tip electrodes give high TA (higher than solo cans) and b) the circuit design was such that the sensitivity at high TA was much less. Ralphs meter designs take this into account).

Nick

 

[The Oracle]

In response to the phone number: I don't really want to frustrate Ralph over the phone, It's the kind of thing I assume would be easier over the net....

Frustrate Ralph over the tele?

He's not that kind of man.

He is very welcoming at sincere and interested communication from my experience.

He hits back at entheta sometimes but that's a high toned traight!

Ralph loves to help people and has a very high care factor about the person in front of him, even when it is a huge audience!

T.O.

 

[BAYCB]

Ralph did a lot of experimenting with that sort of thing by having someone on two meters at once:

1) Head electrodes read too deep. You'll throw your PC in over his head.

2) Foot plates and wrist straps miss reads.

3) Finger tip electrodes, however, seem to work well and are very good both solo and also for one on one auditing where the PC is a gesticulator (as they give less body motion reads).

(However, finger tip electrodes are not going to be much use with an old Mk V, for example, as a) finger tip electrodes give high TA (higher than solo cans) and b) the circuit design was such that the sensitivity at high TA was much less. Ralphs meter designs take this into account).

Nick

Thanks Nick.... I wouldn't mind trying the finger tip electodes. Is there a good source for them?

The info on the head electrodes is interesting. By too deep do you mean that the meter was too sensitive or that you are piciking up things that the pc could not confront. If the later, wouldn't this type of setup be an open door to some type of BLACK Dianetics/Scinetology procedure? What about somone on the upper part of their case... just how deep could they go? I'm sure this would vary from person to person.

Sorry about the questions... just started wondering about this.

 

[nw2394]

Calibration:

1. Adjust the mechanical zero of the TA meter to 1/20th division below zero. I.E. 0.95 TA.
2. Adjust TR2 so that the TA meter reads 6.5 with no connection to the meter.
3. Connect a 12.5K resistor and adjust TR1 so the the TA meter reads 3.0
4. Short circuit the PC input and adjust TR3 so that the needle is on the dial with the TA pot all the way anti-clockwise

1. Easy enough.

2. No connection to what? No PC connection? do I short PC? What do I do with the tone arm?

3. Again, what do I do with the tone arm?

4. Easy enough.

And what about the sensitivity knob? Does any one have any idea what approximately the pots should be adjusted to? I can preadjust and then make small ones until its right.

Thanks...

2. No connection to a PC or anything else. The jack (or din) plug that is eventually to connect to cans and the PC not plugged in.

Obviously you don't short PC. You're trying to calibrate near infinite external resistance to be 6.5 on the TA.

3. Twiddle it until the needle comes to set on the dial and the TA should be 3.0 - if not adjust TR3 until it is.

Basically you are fiddling with TR2, TR3 until
0 ohms = 0.95 TA
12.5k ohms = 3.0
infinite = 6.5

Then the meter is calibrated.

As regard the sensitivity, I don't know - you'll have to dig up Ralph's exact instructions. Failing that, the sensitivity knob is like turning up the volume on a radio. Adjust so that a firm, but not hard can squeeze gives a large fall at mid setting - a small fall on low setting and goes well off the dial at a high setting - that will do anyway.

Nick

 

[Technocrat]

(edits at the bottom...)

Thanks for the help nw2394!

So when I adjust TR1 and TR2 I am watching the TA meter and when I adust TR3 I am watching the needle(meter 2).

When I adjust TR1 and TR2 what is the TA set to? I understand what Im supposed to do with the PC cans and connection but I am still uncertain what to do with the TA itself since it influences the TA meter.

Am I missing an important clue here?

-----

I disconnected the TA for adjusting TR1 and TR2 and I do get 6.5 and 3.

I am working on TR3 though...

 

[nw2394]

This is a case of the blind leading the blind here - I've never built one of Ralph's meters - only bought them myself. All I can tell you is that when the meter is in use that:

a) if you have the cans touch (almost no resistance) then to get the needle to come to the set position should require the TA to be set about 0.95

b) if you have an external 12.5k ohm resistor connected in lieu of a PC, then for the needle to be at the set position should require the TA to be at 3.0

c) if you have no PC and no resistor connected, i.e. near infinite resistance, then when the needle is brought to set the TA should be 6.5.

If that's what you've got, then it is working properly. If it doesn't then the internal resistors need tweaking until this does happen.

Nick

 

[programmer_guy]

At one time foot plates had been in use but were banned due to missed reads and false ta.

While using metered word clearing on one student on HSDC I had him use footplates because his hands were so dry that even hand lotion didn't help. (He worked in a chem lab.) The footplates worked just fine in this circumstance.

 

[nw2394]

While using metered word clearing on one student on HSDC I had him use footplates because his hands were so dry that even hand lotion didn't help. (He worked in a chem lab.) The footplates worked just fine in this circumstance.

I dare say that you might get by using them. Ralph didn't say that they miss all reads - just that they miss some reads.

Frankly a bit of high TA, especially if only caused by purely physical factors, and if the sensitivity is yanked up high enough to compensate for any deficiency in the meter design, is OK. People (read Hubbard) are too hung up about having the TA in the 'right range'. Apparently LRH came out with that crap about the 'male clear read' and 'female clear read' being between 2.0 and 3.0 and spent the rest of the time justifying it. If the meter F/Ns and the PC indicators are in and the process has been done (it isn't an F/N coz the PC thought of a joke!) - then it is an F/N. Do what you can to fix the TA later - but it isn't the end of the world even if it never gets fixed.

Nick

 

[anondc7777]

wow. just wow.