What's glue for you is glue for you.

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by The Anabaptist Jacques, Dec 29, 2017.

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  1. I don't run into Scientologists much anymore, but I did the other day. The person has been deadfiled but is still a true believer.

    She told me that the auditing Tech is wonderful but it is SPs that have made the Church what it is.
    I know that a lot of exes feel that way--exes that are true believers or were when they left.

    But I told this woman, a Scientologist of at least 25 years that I see it the other way around.

    I said the way the Church is itself a product of the auditing Tech. Not squirrel tech, but standard tech.

    I told her that when I got in there were only a few OTs.

    Over time their were more and more.

    One thing I noticed was that OTs were very gullible people. Scientologists, in general, are gullible too. But it seems to me that the higher a person goes up the Bridge the more gullible they get.

    I believe this is from the fact that Scientology, while giving them subjective wins, in fact, it is making them more and more solipsistic. That is, they tend to believe their thoughts as the real world and the real way things are. What is true for them is true.

    Also, the training, starting with TRs makes a person loss empathy with others.

    Add to all this the fact that these things are reinforced by the group thinking.

    I also noticed that the longer a true believer is away from the reinforced thinking of the group they tend to start believing less in the tech and especially their wins.

    But there are some that hang on to the gullibility and lack of empathy after they leave Scientology although they start to believe less in the tech. They still have that solipsistic mindset.

    I guess the point I wanted to get across to this poor soul was that what's glue for you is glue for you.

    Some of it still sticks.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
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  2. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    I think dianetics, where the pc is encouraged to fantasize and this fantasy is tacitly accepted as reality by the auditor, who mustn't "correct or invalidate the pc's data," for hundreds of hours, plays a big part in the increasing gullibility. I think Hubbard understood this. He said "Reality is proportional to charge off the case," reality here having the scn meaning of "agreement."
  3. JackStraw

    JackStraw Silver Meritorious Patron

    I found weird things.

    Grade IVs were Ser. Facy. Clears & OTs were less so.

    But no one was "worldly", no one knew anything outside a very narrow American-centric view.

    This struck me as strange.

    I grew up in Connecticut and explored Eastern Religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, Zen, Taoism...

    I read books by Alexandra David-Neal (Tibetan Buddhism) .

    When I heard a "new" OT V tell his "wins" I thought: shit, I knew this stuff when I was 15-16 years old." I had already had these "wins."
    If this is what OT V provides I have no need for it. I had this reality shift 15-20 years ago! If this is what I have to look "forward" to then Fuck it!

    Nothing here for me! This is old "news."

    My own personal venture into spirituality was 'way more beneficial to me than Scn ever was.

    Took me a while to figure that out, but I did and I left.

    Yay Me!

    My recommendation: Start where you are. Maybe Scn is a start for you. That's ok. But don't stop there. There are lots of ways to the center. Imagine a wheel. Many spokes. Check out a few. Some go there. (to the center.) some don't.

    Don't trust only one. Check out a few. You'll see, there are several that lead to the center and that some that don't.

    Scn don't.

    My experience.

    Be willing to try several and find out for yourself which do and don't.

    If you're inclined, follow it.

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  4. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Another gem from TajWerks!

    I highlighted a few especially illuminating parts, above.

    So! Let's see how it all works. . .

    Ron genetically engineers a new life form (Homo Novis) and embeds it into a large red seed.

    Ron then places each seed in a fancy box with a glowing tree graphic on the cover, labeled "OT".

    Ron then sells each box containing one red seed to people @ not less than $500,000 dollars apiece.

    Hopeful customers buy a boxed seed and take it home and carefully plant it, per Ron's instruction manual.

    Some months later the seed germinates and pops above ground. Their respective Scientology cultivators rejoice!

    Ron's tech is working! Golden Age of Seedology!

    Some year later Scientologists begin to disappear.

    Then it is discovered that they are mysteriously being poisoned to death by whatever is is that grew from Ron's red seed.

    Scientologists vehemently disagree that Ron's seed could ever cause harm.

    Eventually 98 percent of the customers who bought Ron's seed box vanish.

    A forensic investigation determines that the "Tree" and "OT" depicted on the box's cover actually stands for OLEANDER TREE, that bears the world's most poisonous flowers (Nerius Oleander)

    Some of remaining Scientologists react with horror that anything destructive could ever grow out of Ron's super theta seed. They blow. Other Scientologists refuse to believe the facts and viciously attack anyone who spreads "entheta" about Ron's boxed seeds.

    That's the state of Scientology in 2017, for all COS Scientologists, Indie Scientologists, Ron's Org Scientologists and any other denomination of Hubbardites. They all will endlessly explain to you how miraculous Ron's red seeds are and how they are saving the planet and mankind.

    In fact 98 percent of the Scientologists DID vanish (blow) after their seed blossomed and overwhelmed them with its toxic virulence.

    Go ahead, ask a Scientologist why 98 percent blow if Ron's OT-maker tech really does work. Ask them why 98 percent of formerly dedicated Scientologists end up revealing the same cult secret--that the entire "bridge" and "clear" and "OT" is a cruel hoax. That question won't bother them in the slightest. They'll happily and blinklessly explain to you with a huge grin: "But, it couldn't have been Ron's uptone seed--after all it was such a lovely picture on the box and it said "OT" which is super theta, right?"

    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  5. Ex-Scientologists---the fastest growing religion!

    The Anabaptist Jacques
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  6. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    Some people are just easily fooled by glitzy marketing and false promises. Some learn really fast and some eventually learn they were duped. But some just never learn.
  7. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Where's Shelly?

    "I found weird things.
    Grade IVs were Ser. Facy"

    That is exactly what my biggest revelation was when I completed Grade IV was that being a Scientologist itself had become a massive ser fac for the majority of Scientologists that I met and was becoming more of a constant in me as well.
    I'm sure I said something else at the examiner.
    But I had also trained up to class IV before I made tracks into the horizon and was constantly telling my closest, on the fence, friends that being a Scientologist was the singular biggest make right that I saw being dramatized whereas I was seen as "undedicated" by the Ron John's who had to have Scientology be entirely, 100% and always right or they were at risk of caving in. Quickly saw the trap from an entirely different angle providing myself with further impetus to just drop it in it's entirety and move on.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
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  8. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I think what saved me was that I worked in the real world. 99% of the people I interacted with on a daily basis were non Scientologists. It helped me maintain perspective, by not being in the echo chamber. I kept thinking heretical thoughts like "a lot of people I deal with every day are much more capable than any OT I know" and "why don't I see OTs winning Nobel prizes or founding billion dollar companies?"
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Service Facsimiles was just Hubbard's pseudoscience way of explaining Confirmation Bias.
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  10. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    After considerable research it has been discovered that the percentage of blown Scientologists is NOT 98% but is actually more precisely 97.5%.

    This leaves the percentage of non blown SPs (Standard Practitioners) at 2 and a half %...or 2.5% to be precise.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    good post TAJ.

    Reminds me of Hubbard's rhetoric, namely the HCO PL "PTS and Leaves".

    Thanks to Jerry Armstrong, here it is:


    If we substitute the the word PTS with Open Minded, which is a good thing in the wog world, meaning willing to examine things and concepts, but Hubbard said Open Minded was bad, or not being able to decide, or PTS, or fully indoctrinated, LOL

    And if we substitute the word antagonist with Critical Thinking, why we understand Hubbard's indoctrination or rhetoric or art of persuasion.

    Hubbard's first paragraph from the HCO PL:

    "There were once occasions where an Ethics Officer advocated that PTS people take a leave of absence in order to “handle their PTS situation.” This was an incorrect handling."

    Reword it to:

    There were once occasions where an Ethics Officer advocated that Open Minded people take a leave of absence in order to “handle their Open Minded situation. This was an incorrect handling."

    Hubbards second paragraph:

    "It is a very dangerous precedent to assume at once that a person who is PTS should be sent on leave or let go on leave to see the persons they are PTS to. This can open the door to a blow. In one org where there were several blows, each one was traced back to a PTS person having gone on leave to see antagonistic connections."

    Reword it to:

    It is a very dangerous precedent to assume at once that a person who is Open Minded should be sent on leave or let go on leave to see the persons they are Opened Minded to. This can open the door to a blow. In one org where there were several blows, each one was traced back to a Open Minded person having gone on leave to see Critical Thinking connections.

    Hubbards third paragraph:

    "Any such PTS situation should be fully handled before the person is permitted to go on leave."

    Reword it to:

    Any such Open Minded situation should be fully handled before the person is permitted to go on leave.

    Hubbards fourth paragraph:

    "The EP of PTS handling is the person no longer PTS and the previously antagonistic people volunteering communication to him or her. There’s something magical about a good PTS Rundown."

    Reword it to:

    The EP of Open Minded handling is the person no longer Open Minded and the previously Critical Thinking people volunteering communication to him or her. There’s something magical about a good Open Minded Rundown.

    Hubbards fifth paragraph:

    "This policy must not be used to forbid staff from taking standard authorized leaves."

    His fifth paragraph sounds logical, LOL
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  12. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Gib...you're glib.

  13. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Where's Shelly?

    Additionally, Dianetics tends to marry a person to a series of fallacies beginning with that rubbing ones nose in painful memories of yesterday, "incidents", on imaginary "chains" of other similarly charged incidents results in closure through some sort of hyped up "erasure".
    Whereas in truth, it simply makes the person more stuck in the past, miserable and further detached from present time (PT).
    One begins to secretly self audit and figure, figure becoming one's own auditor and c/s to varying degrees all the while hoping for the funds to finally get back in session and "clean it all up".
    At best one becomes burrowed and buried into the past whether real or imaginary and one's interest in the outside MEST (messed?) universe becomes nul and void and becomes entirely detached from the friends and family who are the person's reality and sources of love, power and communication.
    One becomes more and more a mess as a failed Scientologist, stuck on the "Bridge", which most are due to the carrot of "case gain" always being held ever so deftly out of reach and/or on the next level...
    Dianetics is entirely UP A CREEK WITHOUT A PADDLE.
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  14. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Where's Shelly?

    Hubbard conveniently forgot that each of us got into Scientology due to being "open minded" enough to take the bait and try to run with it, only to get reeled in eventually.
  15. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I don't think he conveniently forget, I think he purposely created a Crowd known as a scientologists and a religion.

    I'm pretty happy I'm no longer part of the crowd, yay for me, claps hands.
  16. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Yes but finding engrams (Hubbard's definition) was usually difficult for most PCs in the old days of Dianetics.
    Hence the development of the e-meter so the auditor could say "That! That. What is that."
    (Yes, the e-meter was eventually used for much more than just this.)
  17. Mike Holland

    Mike Holland Patron

    There are clears, mest clears, theta clears and operating thetans. But the highest of them all is the SP. Once you have reached this level, and can think for yourself, Scientology has nothing further to offer you. You have leaped over the bridge!
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  18. Mike Holland

    Mike Holland Patron

    Slightly off the topic, how many remember the Venus Club where the OTs used to meet? That was back around 1952!
  19. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Really? 1952? Where was the Venus Club?
  20. Mike Holland

    Mike Holland Patron

    On Venus, of course. No problem for OTs.