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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

As I prepare to write the next installment of my story, I wanted to comment on the round table which Rinder attended last night.

I didn't notice anyone comment exactly on the thing I noticed so it might not be redundant.

When asked about McPherson, the gentlemanly thing to do would have been to answer. "It was an absolutely terrible, low point in my career. On Scientology's part it neglected her. On my part I deflected and tried to 'manage' the public perception of events. So it is something impossible to forget, the harm I caused. I doubt I can forgive myself for my role."

Now I don't know if he was afraid of another lawsuit or what, but he definitely stuttered and that made him seem cold. Then he tried to talk about how terrible it was but only because he wanted to blame it on CoS without crumbs landing on himself.

I think an issue I have with Rinder (while not saying he isn't trying) is that he went from being a spokesman of CoS to, well, being a spokesman of CoS. It is not hard to notice that he enjoys the sound of his own voice and the role of expert.

He should hire someone to improve his tone, and to help him lower his voice a tiny bit. His emphatic tons sort of sounds like CoS, more like a sales pitch, like he is pushing his words on the listener.
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Sure you can tell me :) no ones listening :yes: just kidding, evenin m'am:hattip:

But the thing about the time machine is that it WILL take you back to then, so you were the you then. Which is not how time machines generally work in fiction.
And then I would have to give up everything that happened after. Which is probably not a good idea.

So I may have to settle for esmb as my time machine. :biggrin:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

As I prepare to write the next installment of my story, I wanted to comment on the round table which Rinder attended last night.

I didn't notice anyone comment exactly on the thing I noticed so it might not be redundant.

When asked about McPherson, the gentlemanly thing to do would have been to answer. "It was an absolutely terrible, low point in my career. On Scientology's part it neglected her. On my part I deflected and tried to 'manage' the public perception of events, something impossible to forget the harm I caused. I doubt I can forgive myself for my role."

Now I don't know if he was afraid of another lawsuit or what, but he definitely stuttered and that made him seem cold. Then he tried to talk about how terrible it was but only because he wanted to blame it on CoS without crumbs landing on himself.

I think an issue I have with Rinder (while not saying he isn't trying) is that he went from being a spokesman of CoS to, well, being a spokesman of CoS. It is not hard to notice that he enjoys the sound of his own voice and the role of expert.

He should hire someone to improve his tone, and to help him lower his voice a tiny bit. His emphatic tons sort of sounds like CoS, more like a sales pitch, like his his pushing his words on the listener.

You know, Maria, you have brought up a relatively complex situation which has many shades of gray connected with it. Rinder, unlike you or me, was not just in C of S, serving as it's number #1 spokesman for DM; rather, in a way he WAS COS, when he was speaking on their behalf. Keep in mind, His Mother, his ex wife and his children are still in C of S and they have all disconnected from him and DM has detectives and agents following his every move.

As a result, when it comes to condemning any horrible activity done be C os in S which he participated, IMO, he has to weigh carefully how much of that activity and its harmful actions should he attribute to himself. For example, if he were to take an extreme action and blame himself for her death, that would be the wrong thing for him to do. First of all, it would not be true and then to make matters worse, C of S via DM could just jump all over that and lay the full responsibity on Rinder, who they have already labled as an SP. Ditto, if he went to the other extreme and claimed that he had NOTHING to do with the Macpherson case, that would also greatly aid DM.

Clearly he must take some responsibility somewhere between all and none otherwise he will lose. Now, how much responsibility should he take? That is something which is subjective, it is not a foregone obvious conclusion. To make the best subjective decision possible requires weighing a lot of factors, i.e. telling as much truth as possible, being as ethical as possible in what one tells, and creating the best PR effect for himself and the worst PR effect for C of S as possible without telling outright lies. Looking at it in that context, I was okay with what Rinder said. If he blamed himself more, the PR effect might be to weaken his own personal reputation too much. After all he is serving on a panel which is trying to either weaken C of S or force them to be more truthful. If he goes too far and admits to too much of the responsibility for Lisa's death, he will damage his own PRO image too much and he would then no longer be effective in being part of the group which is trying to clean up C of S.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

But the thing about the time machine is that it WILL take you back to then, so you were the you then. Which is not how time machines generally work in fiction.
And then I would have to give up everything that happened after. Which is probably not a good idea.

So I may have to settle for esmb as my time machine. :biggrin:

I've never read a book or seen a movie with that type of time machine. I agree that it would probably not be a good idea. What good is going back, if you no longer remember that you are returning from the future to relive a pleasurable part of your life over again? It wouldn't be much different from living it only once.

IMO, the "Back the the Future" series of movies did about the best jobs with time machines. Just imagine going back to high school and knowing what you know now. It would be so thrilling to live those good old days over again but what an advantage you would have in being successful. Being successful in romance in particular and also in making a ton of money would be a piece of cake. Hell, to make money, you get get a clerical job and just invest in IBM, Disney or Microsoft and such and in a relatively short time, you would be rolling in money. Even an idiot could do that.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Hi Lakey

Hey, I can see how the stats of pages sort of do appear where you said. But what about blog posts? I have this blog post:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/entry.php?872-Why-quot-spiritual-progress-quot-sucks

I don't know how to tell if anyone has viewed it during the week or so that it has been sitting there.
I would put it here on Apollo but it was not really a post. :)

I did not post it here in order to spare your faithful readers a brain melt too early or too late in the day.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I've never read a book or seen a movie with that type of time machine. I agree that it would probably not be a good idea. What good is going back, if you no longer remember that you are returning from the future to relive a pleasurable part of your life over again? It wouldn't be much different from living it only once.

IMO, the "Back the the Future" series of movies did about the best jobs with time machines. Just imagine going back to high school and knowing what you know now. It would be so thrilling to live those good old days over again but what an advantage you would have in being successful. Being successful in romance in particular and also in making a ton of money would be a piece of cake. Hell, to make money, you get get a clerical job and just invest in IBM, Disney or Microsoft and such and in a relatively short time, you would be rolling in money. Even an idiot could do that.

Yeah, which is why that lunkhead Biff was keen to steal the Sports Almanac.

300

290
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

You know, Maria, you have brought up a relatively complex situation which has many shades of gray connected with it. Rinder, unlike you or me, was not just in C of S, serving as it's number #1 spokesman for DM; rather, in a way he WAS COS, when he was speaking on their behalf. Keep in mind, His Mother, his ex wife and his children are still in C of S and they have all disconnected from him and DM has detectives and agents following his every move.

As a result, when it comes to condemning any horrible activity done be C os in S which he participated, IMO, he has to weigh carefully how much of that activity and its harmful actions should he attribute to himself. For example, if he were to take an extreme action and blame himself for her death, that would be the wrong thing for him to do. First of all, it would not be true and then to make matters worse, C of S via DM could just jump all over that and lay the full responsibity on Rinder, who they have already labled as an SP. Ditto, if he went to the other extreme and claimed that he had NOTHING to do with the Macpherson case, that would also greatly aid DM.

Clearly he must take some responsibility somewhere between all and none otherwise he will lose. Now, how much responsibility should he take? That is something which is subjective, it is not a foregone obvious conclusion. To make the best subjective decision possible requires weighing a lot of factors, i.e. telling as much truth as possible, being as ethical as possible in what one tells, and creating the best PR effect for himself and the worst PR effect for C of S as possible without telling outright lies. Looking at it in that context, I was okay with what Rinder said. If he blamed himself more, the PR effect might be to weaken his own personal reputation too much. After all he is serving on a panel which is trying to either weaken C of S or force them to be more truthful. If he goes too far and admits to too much of the responsibility for Lisa's death, he will damage his own PRO image too much and he would then no longer be effective in being part of the group which is trying to clean up C of S.
Lakey

This is right...I just wished he might have practiced this question a bit before coming on stage. I know how hard it is. Besides programming I did a bit of project management at a startup where I was working. I had to run meetings and I was probably a bit flabby in my presentation. Some people have a gift for presenting themselves and are never 'off'. Rinder was mostly on and does have executive qualities. I feel bad for Rinder that his family has disconnected. And most likely they are guarded quite carefully so they don't follow him off the plantation.

It is not easy to escape Scn. I still have yet to write about my 'escape' from CCLA, which I will be doing. It was truly a physical escape; there were security cameras in every hallway of every floor. A lucky coincidence aided me in my departure. :)
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Isn't it funny how the acronym COS is a sort of flimsy visual takeoff on the word CAUSE. (Although generally we pronounce the letters in COS one by one....)
 
Re: maria reads Dianetics and joins Scientology

Thank you Lakey, It was so long ago on the IQ, and keep in mind it was a Scientology test so who knows if the result and the protocols were in line with what a wog testing would produce. I suspect a different outcome. :)

I know what you mean about the promise of the Dianetics book. In a way it laid out the entire bridge didn't it? At least it felt that way to me. I did get gains. And there was something amazing about a bunch of humans freaking out trying to save the world. It definitely brought us together in a weird way in which we were and are a little bit like family. It was bad but something about it was memorable enough that we want to remember it, right?

Freud was a thinker who most just accept as having had a point, being right, and add to that he was famous. On top of his principles lots of other principles and techs were piled on later - applications and techniques relating to the unconscious and subconscious desires and fears (marketing, sales, psychology, culture). I think Ron was smart to use the words conscious and subconscious because people already had a basic idea of what that meant. Less chance of MUs so the public could follow the Dianetics book without tripping up.

I will leave the way this affected my parents for the rest of the story as it progresses. I have several parts here. The training, the case-cracking stats that caused me to win the East coast on a regular basis, thus getting Mayo's attention, the period where I helped found the Venezuela org in Valencia (I was the tech person and there was an admin person), The trip to LA to do OT levels and then a time period auditing at AOLA and c/sing, the return to Miami and the shift from auditor to c/s, being called out to Int? (If I have the place right) to train with Mayo, the return to Miami and my departure from Scientology, then the AAC episode and at the very end, the final ending of the story, CCLA and my failure to sign the billion year contract among other things. Thank you about the writing. I hope to try and not be so long-winded as to be boring and at the same time I hope that the various elements are interesting so I want to include all those pieces. I am sure the CA parts would be more interesting for those from CA although I'll probably not handle it as well as a native Californian would (the story) :) Keep in mind that I did the OT levels when one went OT1-7 and then back through OT3 once again (hope I got that right). I spent at least 200 hours on OT2. That was my own doing. I wanted to keep going with it longer but I realized I was getting obsessive. LOL. And I have since heard they got rid of it? It was one of my favorite parts! More soon.......

Thank you for your story, I can't wait to read the rest. It all sounds very exiting. By the way I lived in Venezuela in my youth. It was a beautiful country, my father used to work for Lilly in Valencia!
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: maria reads Dianetics and joins Scientology

Thank you for your story, I can't wait to read the rest. It all sounds very exiting. By the way I lived in Venezuela in my youth. It was a beautiful country, my father used to work for Lilly in Valencia!

I love valencia!!! I will be writing of my time there as part of this continuing series about my time in Scientology.....
Augie Pinto was the ED and held all the admin hats in valencia. I held the tech and qual and ethics hats. (I rarely applied ethics to anyone....I hate that sort of use of ethics and even then felt a bit weird telling others they were messed up.) As the Tech person I also gave longwinded talks explaining Scientology to new people. I don't know how Augie managed it but he could pull in 2-300 at a time. Oh i remember now. He'd reg the owner of a school or business and then that person would send him their entire student body or work force.

I got to visit Maracaibo, Caracas (since we were starting the org there too) and took various hikes through the rain forest. I will write about it.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Preface to the Escape from the CCLA

I love posting here aboard the "Apollo." It's got a nice lounge!

I was torn if to tell the story of Venezuela first or talk about AOLA or CCLA or.....or.....but I will jump way ahead and talk about the CCLA. Except for now, as seen below, I chose a different topic! I guess I got carried away while thinking of the CCLA and Lakey's post on the subject.

I visited the CCLA a bit later than the fiasco at AAC. The church registered my unwillingness to spy on the AAC but it also observed a desire on my part to get back into good standing. By the way I am so happy that the desire to be in goodstanding eventually died.....I am only sorry it was such a slow death. It seems that now this post will attempt to understand why I kept trying to fix things with the CoS, instead of explaining how I escaped the CCLA. I am trying to understand the feel good parts of Scientology, the glue that linked the tech to the people. LOL.

As I was writing this, I went onto Google images, hoping to find some pictures that would communicate WHY I had this desire to be in good standing. Just why was it so hard for me or anyone else to leave. What was the draw? Lakey gave a beautiful picture of CCLA in the old days. People coming in from all over, the camaraderie, the energy, the high levels of ARC. That is the only answer I can come up with. Even as a public person or a staff person hated or noticed or felt sort of confused about certain aspects of the way Scientology was run ALL THAT COULD BE SET ASIDE because it was so much fun to be part of a group filled with such nice folks. The best part of the orgs was the experience of being together, not the tech or admin or any other department by itself. I think this is why people are so unhappy in the CoS right now. Somewhere along the way it became a business, not a family. It became all business and forgot about its purpose, stopped spreading the love, stopped having fun and stopped playing games. There is so little of that love going around it is now hard to tell why we were ever in. Maybe it was a sixties thing. A time of letting down our hair and being fun and setting aside judgment and exploring who we were as spiritual beings. There was something rebellious and contagious about being happy, about caring, about not fitting into society, about thinking different thoughts than wogs did, about exploring our own realities, about letting go of judgments and just liking each other because we were all together in this and boy was it fun.

I have always been a lover of the word FUN. I wanted to grow up when I was little because older kids who were in their teens had more fun. They drove cars. They went to parties. They didn't have to obey the parents and could get away with something now and again. The game of being a teen seemed more FUN than the game of being a little kid just like the game of being a little kid was more fun than being a baby. And then the game of leaving home and being an adult and deciding for oneself was more fun than being a teen.....

So joining up with others in this game called Scientology was FUN. Society did not approve of it very much. It was like sneak smoking and drinking as a teen. Being a hippy and changing the world. Making friends. When I was staff I usually enjoyed it and was captivated by it. Except the ethics and stats parts, which seemed odd and out of place there. Except the prices which felt a bit corporate. If I were the church's PR person the only revolution I would advise right this second is lower the prices, remove all declares, go back to the old bridge, and cut down on ethics departments. The reasoning: whatever one focuses on, there they are. If the church only focuses on being attacked and hated and on the out-ethics of all its members, then everyone will be busy scrambling around worried they are next instead of doing what they came in for: to feel better, to have fun, to understand the world, reality, and each other. (It is a lot easier to buy into anything if it's something that feels great!)

So here is a picture I found that got me thinking of this:
HubbardWeddingApollo.jpg


Someone has gotten married! Folks are smiling and hanging out together and it's important! What a party! And I imagine that these are staff. Whoever recognizes the picture let me know.

It always felt for me, in my old days at Miami org, that we were together in this. The mood of those days was like this picture - excited, hopeful, full of life and fun. It was not me vs. them. We were a family and nobody was going to be kicked out and no one was an SP. The paranoia that ruled later I think makes it impossible to revive that spirit which caused people to flock into orgs. Even if life on the Apollo was hard, I doubt that Lakey and others wanted to leave. The good outweighed the bad.

I never felt I was as slave at Miami org. I never felt that I was being watched. I never felt policed. When people start to feel policed, when parts of the family are thrown into dungeons it is ALL OVER THEN. At that point nothing is fun, nothing feels creative or causative, freedom is out the window even as a possibility.

What is more important than absolute control is energy and growth. Energy and growth are always followed by a bit of randomity and chaos. The church can't grow because it only allows ONE voice to be heard and everyone else is expendible, soon to be sent to the hole. The energy of letting people contribute and allow for the fact they are all different and that this difference HELPS was there in the old days. This difference and uniqueness is now viewed as deviating from the tech instead of seeing the truth that people disagree, that they learn from each other, that these differences are FUN. The goal now seems to be to produce robots instead of to enhance individuals.

P.S. Don't think that DM does not know all the above, otherwise he would not make sure that TC and JT are always having FUN --- because if the love died, if the party was over, so would be their devotion. Now instead of being the cool older brother who can show us how the world works, the church has become the mean evil stepmother who will force us to see the world her way or if that does not work, throw us in the dungeon. The church has a huge PR problem. It's just no fun anymore! And what is the byword for celebrity??? FUN.
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Hi Lakey

Hey, I can see how the stats of pages sort of do appear where you said. But what about blog posts? I have this blog post:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/entry.php?872-Why-quot-spiritual-progress-quot-sucks

I don't know how to tell if anyone has viewed it during the week or so that it has been sitting there.
I would put it here on Apollo but it was not really a post. :)

I did not post it here in order to spare your faithful readers a brain melt too early or too late in the day.

I don't have the answer to that question. You can ask the webmaster of ESMB that question or almost certainly Dull Old Fart would know if you want to check with him.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: Preface to the Escape from the CCLA

I love posting here aboard the "Apollo." It's got a nice lounge!

I was torn if to tell the story of Venezuela first or talk about AOLA or CCLA or.....or.....but I will jump way ahead and talk about the CCLA. Except for now, as seen below, I chose a different topic! I guess I got carried away while thinking of the CCLA and Lakey's post on the subject.

I visited the CCLA a bit later than the fiasco at AAC. The church registered my unwillingness to spy on the AAC but it also observed a desire on my part to get back into good standing. By the way I am so happy that the desire to be in goodstanding eventually died.....I am only sorry it was such a slow death. It seems that now this post will attempt to understand why I kept trying to fix things with the CoS, instead of explaining how I escaped the CCLA. I am trying to understand the feel good parts of Scientology, the glue that linked the tech to the people. LOL.

As I was writing this, I went onto Google images, hoping to find some pictures that would communicate WHY I had this desire to be in good standing. Just why was it so hard for me or anyone else to leave. What was the draw? Lakey gave a beautiful picture of CCLA in the old days. People coming in from all over, the camaraderie, the energy, the high levels of ARC. That is the only answer I can come up with. Even as a public person or a staff person hated or noticed or felt sort of confused about certain aspects of the way Scientology was run ALL THAT COULD BE SET ASIDE because it was so much fun to be part of a group filled with such nice folks. The best part of the orgs was the experience of being together, not the tech or admin or any other department by itself. I think this is why people are so unhappy in the CoS right now. Somewhere along the way it became a business, not a family. It became all business and forgot about its purpose, stopped spreading the love, stopped having fun and stopped playing games. There is so little of that love going around it is now hard to tell why we were ever in. Maybe it was a sixties thing. A time of letting down our hair and being fun and setting aside judgment and exploring who we were as spiritual beings. There was something rebellious and contagious about being happy, about caring, about not fitting into society, about thinking different thoughts than wogs did, about exploring our own realities, about letting go of judgments and just liking each other because we were all together in this and boy was it fun.

I have always been a lover of the word FUN. I wanted to grow up when I was little because older kids who were in their teens had more fun. They drove cars. They went to parties. They didn't have to obey the parents and could get away with something now and again. The game of being a teen seemed more FUN than the game of being a little kid just like the game of being a little kid was more fun than being a baby. And then the game of leaving home and being an adult and deciding for oneself was more fun than being a teen.....

So joining up with others in this game called Scientology was FUN. Society did not approve of it very much. It was like sneak smoking and drinking as a teen. Being a hippy and changing the world. Making friends. When I was staff I usually enjoyed it and was captivated by it. Except the ethics and stats parts, which seemed odd and out of place there. Except the prices which felt a bit corporate. If I were the church's PR person the only revolution I would advise right this second is lower the prices, remove all declares, go back to the old bridge, and cut down on ethics departments. The reasoning: whatever one focuses on, there they are. If the church only focuses on being attacked and hated and on the out-ethics of all its members, then everyone will be busy scrambling around worried they are next instead of doing what they came in for: to feel better, to have fun, to understand the world, reality, and each other. (It is a lot easier to buy into anything if it's something that feels great!)

So here is a picture I found that got me thinking of this:
HubbardWeddingApollo.jpg


Someone has gotten married! Folks are smiling and hanging out together and it's important! And I imagine that these are staff. Whoever recognizes the picture let me know.

It always felt for me, in my old days at Miami org, that we were together in this. The mood of those days was like this picture - excited, hopeful, full of life and fun. It was not me vs. them. We were a family and nobody was going to be kicked out and no one was an SP. The paranoia that ruled later I think makes it impossible to revive that spirit which caused people to flock into orgs. Even if life on the Apollo was hard, I doubt that Lakey and others wanted to leave. The good outweighed the bad.

I never felt I was as slave at Miami org. I never felt that I was being watched. I never felt policed. When people start to feel policed, when parts of the family are thrown into dungeons it is ALL OVER THEN. At that point nothing is fun, nothing feels creative or causative, freedom is out the window even as a possibility.

What is more important than absolute control is energy and growth. Energy and growth are always followed by a bit of randomity and chaos. The church can't grow because it only allows ONE voice to be heard and everyone else is expendible, soon to be sent to the hole. The energy of letting people contribute and allow for the fact they are all different and that this difference HELPS was there in the old days. This difference and uniqueness is now viewed as deviating from the tech instead of seeing the truth that people disagree, that they learn from each other, that these differences are FUN. The goal now seems to be to produce robots instead of to enhance individuals.

P.S. Don't think that DM does not know all the above, otherwise he would not make sure that TC and JT are always having FUN --- because if the love died, if the party was over, so would be their devotion. Now instead of being the cool older brother who can show us how the world works, the church has become the mean evil stepmother who will force us to see the world her way or if that does not work, throw us in the dungeon. The church as a huge PR problem. It's just no fun anymore! And what is the byword for celebrity??? FUN.

IMO, your post is absolutely fantastic, very original, full of incites and extremely well written. I'm not going to do my usual shtick and write a long reply, I'm just going to let it go at that!
Lakey
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The night I observed Karen Black RIP have a meltdown at the receptionist desk at Flag.....the receptionist was rude or indifferent to her!!! I don't know if she was already upset when she went there to check out or what but it was loud. It was the late seventies and I know she got in during the 70s and also that Flag was probably less than ideal for people who should have been at CC. I know that she left Scientology after only a few years in. Probably right around the time I saw her.

Ya know I was confused to see an SO member treating her like she was dirt, a crazy person. I am posting because while it seems celebrities are treated differently in the church this time it was slightly different.

i don't know exactly what the staff member did wrong but Karen Black was in tears and feeling humiliated. And making a scene she did not care who witnessed. While she did not look her best at that moment I assume something must have happened.....

I was standing maybe two feet away....

Z
 

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lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The night I observed Karen Black RIP have a meltdown at the receptionist desk at Flag.....the receptionist was rude or indifferent to her!!! I don't know if she was already upset when she went there to check out or what but it was loud. It was the late seventies and I know she got in during the 70s and also that Flag was probably less than ideal for people who should have been at CC. I know that she left Scientology after only a few years in. Probably right around the time I saw her.

Ya know I was confused to see an SO member treating her like she was dirt, a crazy person. I am posting because while it seems celebrities are treated differently in the church this time it was slightly different.

i don't know exactly what the staff member did wrong but Karen Black was in tears and feeling humiliated. And making a scene she did not care who witnessed. While she did not look her best at that moment I assume something must have happened.....

i I was standing maybe two feet away....

I saw Karen and some lower level female get into it a little bit while eating in the dining room during a meal at Flag. The woman was a waitress or what they call a steward in the S.O. I think I was eating at the same table she was but sitting on the same side of the table at one end while she was at the other end, maybe 5 feet apart. She was asking for a refill of coffee or water and the steward was very busy and took quite a while to refill her drink. When the steward finally came, she said some snide remark such as, "Karen, I only have two hands." Karen snapped back, "Why don't you insist that you be given more help." The steward replied with another snappy comment and walked away after filling Karen's cup. As the steward departed, Karen said under her breath, "Bitch".

Marie, she remained in COS up to her death. I know for sure because in 2012 she was staring in a local play at a playhouse in Santa Monica, CA. Purple Haze had been her auditor back in the early days of CCLA and Purple Haze invited me to go her to watch the play and then try and meet up with Karen after the play. Purple hoped that either Karen needed more auditing or she had friends who needed auditing. We did wait for Karen after the play was over and at first Karen did not recognize Purple at all. You know, Karen knew her as a 22 year old and Purple was then 66 so as might be expected, Karen didn't recognize her. Once Purple told karen who she was, Karen got all excited and they chatted for about 20 minutes. Karen said that she already had an auditor but that some of her friends might need Purple's services. Purple gave her some cards but Karen never called her back.

A year later the same thing happened, Karen was playing in Santa Monica and I went with Purple Haze to watch the play and then talk to Karen after the play. This time Karen recognized her. She was too busy to talk but invited Purple and me to have a meal with her and some of the people in the cast of the play at a restaurant across the street. Purple said that we would come but instead of going to have dinner with Karen and her friends, she said she changed her mind and wanted to eat somewhere else. I was just along for the ride so Purple and I ate at a different restaurant.

BTW, Karen looked strong and healthy in 2013 but about a year later she passed on. She was really a fine person and a fine actress but I will tell you for sure that she was still in COS in 2013 and I have no reason to believe that she got out of COS in the last year of her life.
Lakey
 
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Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I saw Karen and some lower level female get into it a little bit while eating in the dining room during a meal at Flag. The woman was a waitress or what they call a steward in the S.O. I think I was eating at the same table she was but sitting on the same side of the table at one end while she was at the other end, maybe 5 feet apart. She was asking for a refill of coffee or water and the steward was very busy and took quite a while to refill her drink. When the steward finally came, she said some snide remark such as, "Karen, I only have two hands." Karen snapped back, "Why don't you insists that you be given more help." The steward replied with another snappy comment and walked away after filling Karen's cup. As she departed, Karen said under her breath, "Bitch".

Marie, she remained in COS up to her death. I know for sure because in 2012 she was staring in a local play at a playhouse in Santa Monica, CA. Purple Haze had been her auditor back in the early days of CCLA and Purple Haze invited me to go her to watch the play and then try and meet up with Karen after the play. Purple hoped that either Karen needed more auditing or she had friends who needed auditing. We did wait for Karen after the play was over and at first Karen did not recognize Purple at all. You know, Karen knew her as a 22 year old and Purple was then 66 so as might be expected, Karen didn't recognize her. Once Purple told karen who she was, Karen got all excited and they chatted for about 20 minutes. Karen said that she already had an auditor but that some of her friends might need Purple's services. Purple gave her some cards but Karen never called her back.

A year later the same thing happened, Karen was playing in Santa Monica and I went with Purple Haze to watch the play and then talk to Karen after the play. This time Karen recognized her. She was too busy to talk but invited Purple and me to have a meal with her and some of the people in the cast of the play at a restaurant across the street. Purple said that we would come but instead of going to have dinner with Karen and her friends, she said she changed her mind and wanted to eat somewhere else. I was just along for the ride so Purple and I ate at a different restaurant.

BTW, Karen looked strong and healthy in 2013 but about a year later she passed on. She was really a fine person and a fine actress but I will tell you for sure that she was still in COS in 2013 and I have no reason to believe that she got out of COS in the last year of her life.
Lakey
That is really interesting. I did not know. Wonder why Cruise gets royal treatment and Karen was kept waiting like that. Sounds like you had fun there Lakey. I never expected to type that and get back such a neat story. Wonder who else will chime in.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That wedding pic of a double wedding? One of the brides was Annie Broeker!
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/01/annie_broeker_ann_tidman_scientology.php


The article talks about the wedding and has a picture, talks about the double wedding.

In Janet Reitman's book "Inside Scientology" it says on page 109 that in 1974 Commodores Messenger Terry Gilham was married to Gerry Armstrong while their friends and shipmates Trudy Ventner and Pat Broeker also were married. LRH gave away both the brides.

Lakey
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Preface to the Escape from the CCLA

I love posting here aboard the "Apollo." It's got a nice lounge!

I was torn if to tell the story of Venezuela first or talk about AOLA or CCLA or.....or.....but I will jump way ahead and talk about the CCLA. Except for now, as seen below, I chose a different topic! I guess I got carried away while thinking of the CCLA and Lakey's post on the subject.

Fun? That photo of the wedding isn't staff - it was either a CMO wedding or one of Hubbard's kids. I've seen a series of photos from this event and discussion of the people in the photo.(I can't blow that photo up to check details, but this might be the wedding where the disappeared/imprisoned Shelly Miscavige was a bridesmaid.)

I find it very depressing, knowing what I know about that nasty, cruel old man at the head of the table, how many lives he destroyed and esp. the fates of the people in the photo. It's a facade - the air of "fun" was merely created as bait so Hubbard could control you and get your money.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That is really interesting. I did not know. Wonder why Cruise gets royal treatment and Karen was kept waiting like that. Sounds like you had fun there Lakey. I never expected to type that and get back such a neat story. Wonder who else will chime in.

From what Marty and others have written, there is a strong consensus that when Cruise was with Nicole, he got Nicole to do some courses and some auditing but she would never rully commit to scientology and give up being a Catholic and when children were added to their family, she wanted them raised as Catholics. TC sort of went along with this and as a result, he started to fall off lines a bit. At this point, DM took action and assigned Marty to bring Cruise back into the fold. As with the IRS caper, Marty did what he was told and got a good result. He made Cruise more dedicated than ever and then was able to get Cruise break off with Nicole.

Once that happened, TC had no second dynamic going. He tried to create one with Penelope Cruz, a non Scientologist, but she would not give up being Catholic either. Tc then seems to have reached for DM. It was at this point where DM stepped in with full force and started finding a girl friend for Tom and became his best friends.

DM did give some TC and Nicole some major perks such as having flower beds planted for them and having special rooms renovated for them at the Hemet base butwhen Nicole started to assert her Catholic faith, DM back offed for awhile and let Marty handle things, After TC was handled, the DM jumped back in to help TC find a new girlfriend. In the process of doing that, the two of them actually became the best of friends and at that point began to treat TC different than the other celebrities. DM made sure TC super special privileges never before or since given to any other celiebrity. This is all just my opinion resulting from reading many sources who have dealt with this subject.
Lakey
 
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