Scientology security kills man with sword

[NonScio]

Death tolls are given by historians such as Will Durant, who, in The Reformation (1957), cites Juan Antonio Llorente, General Secretary of the Inquisition from 1789 to 1801, as estimating that 31,912 people were executed from 1480-1808. He also cites Hernando de Pulgar, a secretary to Queen Isabella, as estimating 2,000 people were burned before 1490. Philip Schaff in his History of the Christian Church gave a number of 8,800 people burned in the 18 years of Torquemada. Matthew White, in reviewing these and other figures, gives a median number of deaths at 32,000, with around 9,000 under Torquemada [1]. R. J. Rummel describes similar figures as realistic, though he cites some historians who give figures of up to 135,000 people killed under Torquemada. This number includes 125,000 asserted to have died in prison due to poor conditions, leaving 10,000 sentenced to death. (Death rates in medieval and early modern prisons were generally very high, thanks in part to inadequate sanitary conditions and a poor diet.) There are no death toll figures available for the massacres of 1391, 1468 or 1473. These numbers will likely never be known.

there are controversial disputes as to these numbers, however.

The figures you quote are probably a bit more reliable than the
comic book reference. 31,912 over a period of 500 years comes
to about 64 a year...If you assume U.S, Highway death toll to
be about 40,000 dead per year, the Inquisition was about
1/600 as deadly as our nationall highways. Whatever the clever
comparisons might reveal, its a nonsequiter to this discussion and
issue.

 

[NonScio]

Has anyone seen anything on the identity of the shooter, i.e.
the security guard? It was mentioned on a post that the guy
is ex LAPD. Why is he "EX" in relation to LAPD?
Retired? Fired? Quit?

The LAPD had the particular national reputation of being "trigger happy"
a number of years back. Didn't the Rodney King incident involve
LAPD? Does that old reputation have any current
validity?

Is it possible that the LAPD might consider this guy "one of their own"
and have a tendency to cut him a alot of slack in their investigation?
It did seem that the "verdict" of justifiable shooting came just about as
fast as the bullet that killed the guy!

An earlier poster mentioned the fact that the guy was shot only
a few feet from his car. I noticed that as well from the photo.
Also, it appears the car is barely in the parking lot.

 

[klidov]

Did you know all the facts last night? No? Why? Because no one knew.

SO you wanna send two people who have a history of not knowing the facts and being sketchy peaceful protesters out without all the facts?

.....wow.

Here's what comes to mind. Ever see the movie American History X?. There is a point when Edward Norton's character confront the leader of the local Skinheads/Nazi Group.

The Man (the leader) was very good at agitating others, and getting people to do his dirty work, while staying in the shadows. It turns out that not only did he rewrite his own History, he was a Judas.

How does this apply? Anon (generalizing) claims to serve no master. No leader. Anons are as strong as their weakest member.

What Angry Gay Pope, and Agent Orange choose to do (with their posse) concerns me only when Anons are painted with the same broad brush. No one speaks for me, but myself.

We knew, when we started this, if we were really honest with ourselves that this Cult plays for keeps. The Law means little, or nothing to them.

*steps off of soapbox*

One final thought. A mentally ill Man died last night. He lashed-out at the Cult that took his money, and took him off of his Meds. That is the focus. But within 24 hours he has been objectified. Dehumanized by the cult, and dehumanized by those that would turn him into a cause.

He is a victim. And, perhaps a hero. He also needed help.

Now....I really am stepping off of my soapbox.

 

[Tim Skog]

Quite the contrary, if the info can be relayed to the on the ground flash raiding protestors, had someone emailed AGP or anon orange the info that Mario worked priorly for Moxon, in the suit Moxon pulled or attempted to pull on UCLA against Jolly West, then this whole goddamn Hubbard anti psych stuff comes full circle.

The damn story is Hubbard's fraud therapy, can't help mental case people like Mario, but then OSA Moxon legal ploys against our culture's scholars like West are slammed with Moxon led, Mario assisting, ploys.

Had we goddamn gotten this info to AGP, then AGP could be shouting the truth, and causing Moxon to wince like Moxon should, for Mario is caught up in the Hubbard false fraud therapy, a reject, but a someone that OSA stoops to use, all because ALL of us variously duped jerks, who followed this goddamn Hubbard blueprint.

NO.

AGP and those on the ground, flash raiding, let's get them the ammunition to shout in protest, the TRUTH about the whole mess.

CONNECT THE DOTS and give that info to those with the balls to protest!!!!

If this guy was being used by Moxon then there is a rotten fish here. This whole incident is so f#@king out-pointy (to use LRH speak). What set the guy off to go and do what he did. A phone call and someone pushing the right button.

In another post on this thread supposedly the guards were familiar with the fact that this guy had a "past" with the CofS. Another outpoint.

 

[Free to shine]

One final thought. A mentally ill Man died last night. He lashed-out at the Cult that took his money, and took him off of his Meds. That is the focus. But within 24 hours he has been objectified. Dehumanized by the cult, and dehumanized by those that would turn him into a cause.

He is a victim. And, perhaps a hero. He also needed help.

Now....I really am stepping off of my soapbox.

^^THIS^^

 

[feline]

I work to get anyone who is protesting GOOD accurate info, that connects the dots, that makes the truth come out!

That's the point.

More ex's with the capability to flush out the history, quickly, so that those with the nerve to protest have the freshest most accurate info, is my recommendation of how to assist those that are front line flash raiding.

Otherwise, yes, I agree with your drift.

I don't go for trashing anyone in this anti Scientology game.

Better to share the truth, so it can get out, as fast as possible, to whomever is gonna protest for stopping the disgraces.

Mario was used by OSA/Moxon, that's evident in the Bruin article.

Lots more still to be learned.

But the irony already, is Mario has done OSA ploy work.

And the tragedy is Mario attacks those he used to help.

There is much to think about, and I will do whatever I can to help sanely go forward out of this Scientology/Hubbard mess that I helped bolster for 27 years of my Sea Org staff member life.

I'm not into momentary sniping. Who cares about that in the long run.

Help whoever is protesting be a better protestor and get more truth effectively into the public awareness one way or another.

http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf

Chuck, you are absolutely correct. It is going to be difficult at best to get correct information out as CoS is already telling current members that the deceased had been a problem for years and had only recently been released from jail. The Dead Agenting has already begun to some extent.

If Mario has friends or family on this forum, please accept my sympathies at this very difficult time. The thoughts and prayers of many are with you.

What seems immediately evident is that he suffered some kind of psychotic break. Suicide by police is a likely scenario but he very obviously CHOSE the police that he wanted for the task.

I know that with patience, more will be revealed. This is all just so tragic.

 

[Lohan2008]

Mario ?

does anyone know how long ago Mario got out of CoS??
would like to hear from anyone in Oregon

 

[klidov]

I would be interested in any links concerning Rivera being 'called to task'

I'm sorry if I redirected this thread, but I've done lots of research on the RCC, (most of it NOT connected to Chick Publications) and it hit a 'button' with me when it was suggested earlier that the Inquisition only killed a little over a thousand!

BTW, Chick Pubs didn't originally publish either of the full books I linked to. "The Two Babylons" was published in the 1800's! Do you want some links that have nothing to do with Chick? Can do, but that would be 'redirecting' this thread even more.

I'm not completely off topic, though. The Swiss Guard has got to be one of the most elaborate and certainly the oldest form of church security, which is the main subject of this thread. So, can you forgive me?

Protestant publications such as Forward, Christianity Today, and Cornerstone investigated Rivera's claims and deemed him a fraud.

I don't have any links at the moment & we really should remain on-topic here.

I own copies of "The Two Babylons" & "Smokescreens". Both of which I bought from Chick Publications in the early 80's. (Along with all the comic books.)

 

[Kha Khan]

One final thought. A mentally ill Man died last night. He lashed-out at the Cult that took his money, and took him off of his Meds. That is the focus. But within 24 hours he has been objectified. Dehumanized by the cult, and dehumanized by those that would turn him into a cause.

He is a victim. And, perhaps a hero. He also needed help.

Now....I really am stepping off of my soapbox.

With one exception, I agree with all of this. The only exception is that I think it is mistake, and just plain wrong, to even suggest he was a "hero." Unless you want to render the word "hero" meaningless. Or invite ridicule. [I can see the COS press release right now: Ex Members Praise Terrorist Who Attached Church With Samurai Swords As A "Hero"]

Nonetheless, I think your larger point is not only correct, but also very important and profound. If in fact he lashed out because the COS caused him to go off of his meds and defrauded him of his money, this needs to be explored and publicized.

And yes, I do agree he was a victim if the above facts are correct. One of the most profoundly immoral things the COS does is convince people to go off of their meds. Another is dumping such people after their money has run out.

 

[NonScio]

I guess this story has hit the "big time"...there is a link to
the LA story on Drudge Report. Millions use Drudge as
a link to all their "important" news.

 

[Martini]

Is it possible that the LAPD might consider this guy "one of their own"
and have a tendency to cut him a alot of slack in their investigation?
It did seem that the "verdict" of justifiable shooting came just about as
fast as the bullet that killed the guy!

Don't know but that is an excellent observation.

 

[Wisened One]

Ok, I HAVE to voice an opinion here. Now DONT attack me, anyone..but....

I was NOT there, etc..YET I don't understand WHY the guy couldn't be peppersprayed or maced or safe-shot (shot in the arm,leg,foot) to be stopped, ya know?

Now if he had a GUN?

Well, then.....

 

[NonScio]

Ok, I HAVE to voice an opinion here. Now DONT attack me, anyone..but....

I was NOT there, etc..YET I don't understand WHY the guy couldn't be peppersprayed or maced or safe-shot (shot in the arm,leg,foot) to be stopped, ya know?

Now if he had a GUN?

Well, then.....

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that cops are trained to
shoot to kill when they drew their gun. I'm not sure if
that means they are required to shoot once they draw the
weapon...or if it means that if they do shoot, shoot to kill.

There was a local case about 10 yearsa ago...a teenager
acting out something ...his mother callled the cops...While he
was on the floor on his stomach, hands secured behind his
back...he was shot (in the head) and killed by one of the cops. The cop was exonerated because he "felt his life was threatened" by the teenager
who was secured on the floor by another cop.
If anything, investigation of these kind of incidents should be done by some
outside party not so intimately interested in the outcome of the
investigation.

I agree basically with your post...what would have been wrong
with at least a warning...."drop the sword or I'll shoot"?

 

[Lohan2008]

LAPD

Man with a Sword Shot by a Security Guard

Los Angeles: Hollywood homicide detectives are investigating a shooting that killed a 48-year-old man who attempted to stab security guards with a sword.

On November 23, 2008, at around 11:59 a.m., officers from Los Angeles Police Department’s Hollywood Area responded to a call of an “assault with a deadly weapon” suspect who was at the Church of Scientology in the 5900 block of Franklin Avenue. When they arrived, officers observed a suspect in the parking lot suffering from a gunshot wound.

The detectives’ investigation revealed that the victim was shot by an armed security guard after he attempted to stab other security guards with a sword.

The suspect’s identity is not being released at this time pending notification of next of kin. The deceased is a white male, 48 years of age. His address is unknown at this time.

Anyone who may have witnessed this incident or has information regarding it is asked to contact Hollywood homicide detectives at 213-972-2910 or 213-972-2902. After-hours or on weekends, calls may be directed to a 24-hour, toll-free number at 1-877-LAPD-24-7 or by texting CRIMES (274637) and beginning the message with the letters LAPD. Tipsters may also submit information on the LAPD website, www.lapdonline.org.

 

[Rmack]

Ok, I HAVE to voice an opinion here. Now DONT attack me, anyone..but....

I was NOT there, etc..YET I don't understand WHY the guy couldn't be peppersprayed or maced or safe-shot (shot in the arm,leg,foot) to be stopped, ya know?

Now if he had a GUN?

Well, then.....

Let me explain something about firearms to those of you who apparently don't know.

Firearms are not magic wands that automatically make everyone your verbal slave, regardless of what the movies and tv shows portray.

Getting shot by a firearm doesn't usually cause someone to just fall down and go to sleep like movies and tv shows depict.

There have been instances of drug-crazed maniacs enduring just about everything non-lethal weapons can put out; pepper spray, tazers, et cetera, and still attacking the wielders of these. Hell, there have been instances where bullets didn't work!

I was in the cult when John Lennon was shot. The dupe who shot him expressed surprise when he unloaded a .357 freakin' MAGNUM into his chest, and Lennon just walked off away from him. He didn't instantly fall down like the tv says he should. Had Lennon had his own gun, he could have taken Chapman out, even after taking all of Chapmans bullets.

The classic western cowboy showdown on main street depicted over and over in entertainment has never be verified as EVER happening. It was really more like our modern drive-by violence.

If you ever find yourself in the situation where an obviously disturbed sword-wielding assailant is coming at you, you are free to try to reason with him, pepper spray him, taz him, tell him his mommy wouldn't like what he's doing, whatever. But, if I am in that situation, and I have a gun, I will unload into his center of mass, and then quickly reload in case that didn't do it.

 

[Kha Khan]

Ok, I HAVE to voice an opinion here. Now DONT attack me, anyone..but....

I was NOT there, etc..YET I don't understand WHY the guy couldn't be peppersprayed or maced or safe-shot (shot in the arm,leg,foot) to be stopped, ya know?

Now if he had a GUN?

Well, then.....

What I keep on coming down to is this. LAPD Deputy Chief Terry S. Hara "said Majorski was "close enough to hurt them" when the guard fired." Given that, I think it is unreasonable to demand that the guard pepper spray, mace or "safe-shot" the attacker. If I was in the guard's position, I would have shot him. I'm sorry, but if I'm in that position I'm not going to rely on pepper spray or mace to disable the person before he stabs me.

As I and others have commented, nobody who is taught defensive use of a firearm (e.g., in law enforcement, the armed services) is taught to "safe-shoot" or to shoot to wound. To shoot to wound is to shoot to miss. Everybody is taught to shoot for the center of mass.

Some have said that the security guard should have run away. I think that is also an unreasonable demand for two reasons. First, it may be unsafe. What if the guy wielding the swords is faster than you? What if you slip? What if he slices or stabs you as you turn and run?

Secondly, to turn and run sort of seems inconsistent with being a security guard. Do we really expect, or want, an armed security guard to run away so the samurai sword wielding apparent lunatic can attack other, unarmed persons? I think I'd be a bit perturbed if the armed security guard I hired ran away and allowed a purported samurai or ninja to slice and dice my customers or parishioners.

 

[Wisened One]

Thanks for the info, rmack and kha khan. Really. NOW I understand a bit better!

And he WAS also protecting two other people who was with the guard (so the article says), so also he had to take THAT into consideration.

And Rmack: I didn't realize that people are NOT stopped by other methods: (safe-shooting them, pepperspray, Mace, Tazer, etc).

I mean, I realize that-as I posted my previous post-I might sound like the ignorant firearm/self-defense trained person that I am, but I STILL had to post it, cuz well...I didn't know...

Thanks you guys for not attacking the hell outta me (verbally).

I learned something here, tonight.

Michelle

 

[NonScio]

Man with a Sword Shot by a Security Guard

Los Angeles: Hollywood homicide detectives are investigating a shooting that killed a 48-year-old man who attempted to stab security guards with a sword.

On November 23, 2008, at around 11:59 a.m., officers from Los Angeles Police Department’s Hollywood Area responded to a call of an “assault with a deadly weapon” suspect who was at the Church of Scientology in the 5900 block of Franklin Avenue. When they arrived, officers observed a suspect in the parking lot suffering from a gunshot wound.

The detectives’ investigation revealed that the victim was shot by an armed security guard after he attempted to stab other security guards with a sword.

The suspect’s identity is not being released at this time pending notification of next of kin. The deceased is a white male, 48 years of age. His address is unknown at this time.

Anyone who may have witnessed this incident or has information regarding it is asked to contact Hollywood homicide detectives at 213-972-2910 or 213-972-2902. After-hours or on weekends, calls may be directed to a 24-hour, toll-free number at 1-877-LAPD-24-7 or by texting CRIMES (274637) and beginning the message with the letters LAPD. Tipsters may also submit information on the LAPD website, www.lapdonline.org.

Interesting point...maybe attributable to usual inaccuracy in details
as reported by journalist....the story says... "he attempted to stab other security guards with a sword"
If he was attempting to stab...he didnt have, or didn't know how to use,
a samurai sword. A samurai sword is virtually useless as a stabbing weapon...it is a slashing sword.
The samurai sword is deadly because of its blade...not its point.
If the story is accurate...the man most certainly had no idea how to
use the weapon effectively.

 

[chuckbeatty]

does anyone know how long ago Mario got out of CoS??
would like to hear from anyone in Oregon

The Auditor Issue 318 June 2004
lists Mario as wishing/intending to come to the American Saint Hill Organization in Los Angeles to do the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course, the Scientology Class 6 therapist training course.

This means absolutely that as of June 2004, Scientology considered Mario Majorski conclusively a Scientologist.

 

[Martini]

so where is the evidence he was a current OSA volunteer, or did I misunderstand someone?