Scientology security kills man with sword

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Terril park

Sponsor
During this time when Mario was involved in the lawsuit against Jolly West at UCLA, OSA was working on destroying CAN (Cult Awareness Network). I was totally convinced CAN was a supressive group so I volunteered to help out. OSA was creating law suits anyway they could to wipe them out. My name was used in one of the suits - that one they won - and eventually they broke CAN and bought them out and ended up with the use of the name and now when you call the Cult Awareness Network you get Scientology. I don't know if it's true or not, but it appears to me that it was a similar case with Mario - just the use of his name because Jolly West was one of OSA's targets at the time. If I remember correctly, it was because Jolly West was in support of CAN and he was a psych. There were a number of public Scientologists helping out on this venture with OSA to wipe out CAN.

I have been wondering if someone got close to Mario and slipped him something that made him go wierd. I remember Arnie on OCMB had mentioned that OSA put something on his toothbrush when they raided his house...I think he said it was LSD....and when they went after Paula Cooper they got a Scientologist in close to her to mess her up. I also remember that somebody PDHed Michael Roberts at the Portland Crusade and he backed off from promoting or being active in Scientology for a while until they pulled him in for a session and found out what had happened to him in Portland. Someone had hidden in his closet in his hotel room. He noticed that the closet door was ajar when he came into the room but was tired so didn't pay much attention and went to bed and went to sleep. They got him when he was asleep - drugged him and he never knew it happened until he got some auditing on it. After that session he was angry about what happened to him and became very passionate about regging for the IAS and worked dilligently pulling money in for the IAS from then on.

It would not be normal for an OSA volunteer to be known to be one. You have demonstrated that because no one previously knew FoTi was once one, and in fact don't know who FoTi is now. :)

There is or was a video of ex GO Mike McLaughrey telling how he put LSD on the toothbrush of someone due to speak at a psyche conference. His pregnant wife in fact then used the toothbrush.

An OSA volunteer would be a good choice for other OSA ops. This may get one into situations where one gets involved with matters that are repugnant to one. Maybe Mario became a " loose cannon" that needed handling?
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
<snip>I also remember that somebody PDHed Michael Roberts <snip> They got him when he was asleep - drugged him and he never knew it happened until he got some auditing on it. <snip>
I doubt that Pain Drug Hypnosis 'works' at all! And I doubt that auditing can make you recall it, or anything.. It is some fantasy that Hubbard made scilons afraid of.

Consider.. People are being drugged unconcious for surgery every damned day. Then the doctors cut 'em up to repair their innards... All the while chatting about every imaginable thing and their swinging aunts.

And why I don't think auditing can help you recall anything: I was in surgery back then.. What could be more natural than 'recalling' that in a session? - Recent 'incident', no charge to speak of.. I went in surgery knowing what was to happen.. Only the 'risk' that doctors and nurses had said some stupid shit that might mess up my 'case'.. right?

No! The C/S didn't think so.

:screwy:
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I doubt that Pain Drug Hypnosis 'works' at all! And I doubt that auditing can make you recall it, or anything.. It is some fantasy that Hubbard made scilons afraid of.

Consider.. People are being drugged unconcious for surgery every damned day. Then the doctors cut 'em up to repair their innards... All the while chatting about every imaginable thing and their swinging aunts.

And why I don't think auditing can help you recall anything: I was in surgery back then.. What could be more natural than 'recalling' that in a session? - Recent 'incident', no charge to speak of.. I went in surgery knowing what was to happen.. Only the 'risk' that doctors and nurses had said some stupid shit that might mess up my 'case'.. right?

No! The C/S didn't think so.

:screwy:

Much as I enjoy mocking LRH and degrading the Church, I have to say that I was in the hospital over the last two years, and my stay was rather grueling. My memory of the period is very messed up, but I do recall errant comments of the doctors, and of the nurses, which upset me greatly, changed the flavor of my delusions (I was on a lot of drugs), and I think that sort of chatter DOES fuck you up. Now, I've not yet been in session regarding this ordeal, but when I do, I'll be happy to report on what is recalled and whether or not any of it did any real damage, etc.
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to FoTi

I also remember that somebody PDHed Michael Roberts at the Portland Crusade and he backed off from promoting or being active in Scientology for a while until they pulled him in for a session and found out what had happened to him in Portland. Someone had hidden in his closet in his hotel room. He noticed that the closet door was ajar when he came into the room but was tired so didn't pay much attention and went to bed and went to sleep. They got him when he was asleep - drugged him and he never knew it happened until he got some auditing on it. After that session he was angry about what happened to him and became very passionate about regging for the IAS and worked dilligently pulling money in for the IAS from then on.
I confirm that Michael Roberts made that claim. Except it may not be fact. I have major objections to scientology security checking: The questioning is adversarial, the questions are from unusual experience, and there is imposed chronology, the subject's recall is directed earlier, similar. All these factors can lead to the subject of this "procedure" creating false memories. Remember, security checking is nothing more than a scientology method of interrogation and statements made under duress are not accurate.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
About Lobotomy.. I don't like it.. It shouldn't have been done. Looks to have been a method of 'killing' someone, while not killing him in a 'legal' sense. Meant for the batshit crazy.. But then, when you look at some of the people it was done to.. Not batshit crazy.. The whole thing stinks..

But The Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology whipping up a freaking hate campaign for their own promotional and enslavement purposes stinks worse!

Erh.. I was on about lobotomy..

A New Slant on Lobotomy!
The human body is self repairing! - A lot of damage to a body will heal all by itself. But we know that nerve cells are not regenerative. And thus, the brain cannot repair itself... Therefore the idea of 'damaging' the brain as a form of therapy, lobotomy, seems like utter ignorant idiocy... But it turns out that even if the brain can't heal, the 'work' that the brain needs to do get's done by some other areas of the brain. This explains the 'success' rate that lobotomy has, in spite of our expectations.

So we can observe lobotomy to actually NOT reduce patients to vegetables. And even in some cases result in a better life.

However.. Wantonly destroying the frontal lobes to cause a sort of 'hardware reboot' of the brain hardly sounds like 21'st century medicine..

Happily I can report of new technology.. Something I saw on the TV a while back (..albeit I failed to find anything on the net I can link to. So if anyone.. I'd really like to read more about this!)

Anyways.. It's about destroying some brain tissue. But the similarity to lobotomy ends there..

The doctors used brain scanners to locate and map exactly where an epileptic patients brain 'misfired' during the constant tics and seizures.. Then they 'fried' that part of his brain with focused radiation (of some kind. Multiple 'guns' from different locations to make the area where the beams crossed really hot.)

Result is that the patient happily tells us how wonderful it is to be able to control his movements. Showing us he can hold his hands still.

:yes:
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
SP, I did get case gain. Conditions in my life changed rather radically, and for the better, as a result of the auditing I received. Same with the people who were closest too me. <snip>
Right.. I said I didn't observe anybody having any case gains.. And just to be a real obstinate ass.. I didn't observe you to have case gains either.. I registered you TELLING me!

And, yes! - Mental therapy 'works'.. A lot of people uses it. Having a 'psychologist' and going to 'therapy' has become a regular fad! - In fact the psychologists and private therapists of various kinds have a lot of success with it. Much more so than Scientology.

With this I mean to say that abreactive therapy needent be 'Dianetics(R)' to work well. I doubt the value of the e-meter too.. And I seriously doubt the
advisability of agreeing (believing) that you can't trust your own mind as a prerequisite to Dianetics therapy.

:yes:
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I agree that it doesn't have to be Dianetics or Scientology to "work". In fact, I'd never steer someone into Dn or Scn, because I think they are traps.

My mind has played tricks on me. My memory doesn't always serve me. I don't think having a belief about your mind being defective is necessary to benefiting from mental exercise of whatever kind, but acknowledging that you can get better *IS* I think, necessary.

Does this mean the PERSON is defective, or that they are bad or something? I think not. That would be like thinking a child is defective because they are not 6'3" at 2 years old. People can grow.
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
Lynn,
As usual you're right on target!!!

IMHO the MOST important point of the whole incident is that this man handed over $60k+ to the "authorities on the human mind". LOOK at how he ended up!!!!:omg: :omg:

The church uses the PR line "botched tech" but never claims RESPONSIBILITY for these "products". Talk about lack of knowledge and control also (reference to the KRC triangle).

No matter how Magpie or the others try to spin this, there is a LIST of people who have ended up screwed up and dead from the "tech" of LRH.

I can only hope some journalist would pick up on this list and do a piece showing how the "church" is basically interested in making $$$ and slaves to the church. And that the "authorities on the mind" are quited capable of screwing up it's faithful and walking away without a second thought!!
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lynn,
As usual you're right on target!!!

IMHO the MOST important point of the whole incident is that this man handed over $60k+ to the "authorities on the human mind". LOOK at how he ended up!!!!:omg: :omg:

The church uses the PR line "botched tech" but never claims RESPONSIBILITY for these "products". Talk about lack of knowledge and control also (reference to the KRC triangle).

No matter how Magpie or the others try to spin this, there is a LIST of people who have ended up screwed up and dead from the "tech" of LRH.

I can only hope some journalist would pick up on this list and do a piece showing how the "church" is basically interested in making $$$ and slaves to the church. And that the "authorities on the mind" are quited capable of screwing up it's faithful and walking away without a second thought!!

Yes I agree that what you say is true. But they seem to know how to walk the tightrope of doing things that you can't ever really prove or pin them on. If flubbard was a genius then that was his genius. Many govts have been investigating scio for years but they just can't quite nail them. They're like a fungus you can't get rid of. Time magazine did a whole article with the front cover devoted to it. And they slither on. I for one don't think one event will bring them down, but lack of income will eventually do it. But then they will probably still continue for a while.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I took psychology courses in college but am not in the mental health profession, so no. Hopefully you were joking...

I'm not pro lobotomy but I'm pro- examining history and things people did without always having to have some Scn style judgment call on the thing. Dr Freeman was interesting. I don't have to approve of him and I don't have to view him as an SP or eeevil psych to find him interesting. I think of him as being similar to ancient physicians who used trepanning- which, I'm sure, often did NOT work out well at all. They weren't evil either, just wrong.

Yes, Fluff, I was joking, of course. Most people who are pro-scientology cannot be viewed as psychs. The term, itself, is ridiculous. People who think there's such a thing as a psych are fanatics, and I fanatically believe that all fanatics should be fanatically murdered.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
This thread is turning into a bitch-fest.

May I respectfully suggest that people refrain from further posts until further facts have been revealed?

"Medicine" is practised like religion (watch what happens to a clinician who dares to step out of line) and kills thousands of people every year yet there's barely a social mumble over it.

We all know $cn has its crimes, but in this particular case, we lack the facts to make an informed judgement.

Right now, I don't care who I may offend, but I have requested that moderators close down this thread.

I am horrified and disgusted at the number of people who are "ego-tripping" on a thread about a man being shot. Any factual posts (not just my own) have been ignored while this appalling one-upmanship has continued unabated.

THIS IS NOT HOW ESMB PARTICIPANTS COMPORT THEMSELVES AND MOST RECENT POSTERS SHOULD BE ASHAMED, DEEPLY ASHAMED.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Right now, I don't care who I may offend, but I have requested that moderators close down this thread.

I am horrified and disgusted at the number of people who are "ego-tripping" on a thread about a man being shot. Any factual posts (not just my own) have been ignored while this appalling one-upmanship has continued unabated.

THIS IS NOT HOW ESMB PARTICIPANTS COMPORT THEMSELVES AND MOST RECENT POSTERS SHOULD BE ASHAMED, DEEPLY ASHAMED.

Agreed.

This thread is gross, and on an important subject too. :angry:

I will be asking the mods to prune the thread of rubbish and leave it closed.
 
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