The Major Flaw in Knowledgism

[justaguy]

I find most of this thread, on either side, a bit ridiculous as I have a strong tendency towards atheism, or agnosticism, or something in that vein that's difficult to put into words. But whatever. that's not the point, and is a subjective thing.

what is the point?

oh yeah. I like the way scientology puts it when you cut out and most of what LRH says: life is a game, if you want you can stop playing it. It's a decent way to say some of the stuff a lot of religions say.

My feeling, though, is that I'll stop playing the game when I die. I can't bring myself to believe that after I die I'll be likely to be still stuck in the illusion.

Whatever. General philosophy discussion can continue somewhere else if anyone is interested.

 

[nexus100]

I agree with unique. If you were correct, Alex, all would be a trap. But as finishedman was pointing out on another thread, the trap and the idea of the trap are one. Run down the idea of a trap and it is gone.

If you were going to think of being trapped, you would see traps. If you were going to think of freedom, you would see freedom. Neither concept is accurate because they are realities. They exist because they are what one sees.

Freedom cannot exist without entrapment and entrapment cannot exist without freedom. Neither is true. We aren't even really in this place, we are looking in, so it would be a bit tough to be free or trapped. What is true is your perception. And you decide what you see.

This means that you can track down any belief and blow it out of the water, by real communication with it as unique points out. But real communication means seeing it as it is. If you see something as a concept, outside you, it don't work.

It is truer to say we are free than we are trapped. But neither concept is worth pursing except to locate why one has to believe in it.
My opinion.

 

[Vinaire]

Is it playing in the hands of MEST universe, if one is entertaining goals in the MEST universe?

Hinduism seems to think so. But then West and East have very different philosophies.

.

 

[uniquemand]

I find most of this thread, on either side, a bit ridiculous as I have a strong tendency towards atheism, or agnosticism, or something in that vein that's difficult to put into words. But whatever. that's not the point, and is a subjective thing.

what is the point?

oh yeah. I like the way scientology puts it when you cut out and most of what LRH says: life is a game, if you want you can stop playing it. It's a decent way to say some of the stuff a lot of religions say.

My feeling, though, is that I'll stop playing the game when I die. I can't bring myself to believe that after I die I'll be likely to be still stuck in the illusion.

Whatever. General philosophy discussion can continue somewhere else if anyone is interested.

"Life is a game", IMO, is an overlay you can put on life, to make it seem to make better sense. It "works" as a philosophy. Some people take that to imply that nothing matters, that nobody is anything other than a piece on the board of the game, and that nothing is sacred. That's the problem with the "life is a game" philosophy, but I do think it's workable, given those caveats.

 

[alex]

Again, I disagree. Attention is receptive intention. The intent to receive.

and the creation of who?

we create that intention to receive. all depends on creations of self.

 

[Zinjifar]

Who's 'We' Whiteclam?

Zinj

 

[alex]

Interesting quote from Roger B in

http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=9666



" As an example, in Scn we all referred to exteriorizing from a body and operating about in the physical universe — when in fact, both the body and the physical universe are mere manifestations within the domain of our true existence. It is in fact an unknowing and limiting case state to consider oneself “in” the physical universe (unless one knowingly chooses and creates that)"

Same point I was making earlier.

 

[nw2394]

It is true that there is a lot of material available on the knowledgism web site. None of it seems to be the course materials or the advanced stuff.

But valuable information none the less.

Knowledgism hasnt had a leak of its advanced materials that I know of.

If you've not seen advanced stuff you haven't really looked - or seen but did not recognise.

Nick

 

[Bee Sting]

It doesnt seem that that is the goal. More like big powerful game winners with abilities as the avenue, rather than awakening abilities to further progress beyond the game.

That is one on the key difference in my opinion between scientology and Knowledgism, scientology the philosophy was all about getting out of the trap, while knowledgism seems to want to win in it.

But then I personally enjoy human life.....so its not a bad thing in itself, but also the goal of transcending it is important.

But isn't Knowledge-ism in Scientology-ism the same-ism that keeps us trapped in the -ism? Where to do you transcend to as different from knowledge-ism or Scientology-ism? Or, could "they " perhaps be one and the same depending ?

Interested Bees awaiting the curiosity of stimulative or stimulations response. We'll take either. Thanking you in advance for your technology-ism.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

 

[alex]

If you've not seen advanced stuff you haven't really looked - or seen but did not recognise.

Nick

Forrest for the trees...or some reciprocal...or the elegant simplicity or some aspect?

Please point me in the right direction.

The processes that address entities are certainly not on the site. And I have seen reference to series of bulletins and such that are not even mentioned on the website or otherwise available to a non knowledgist.

I do admit that I have a problem sometimes thinking outside the scientology construct. It spoiled my experience of idenics.

Frequently real simple stuff really is the most important...

?? Links? Clues?

 

[degraded being]

When I read this "spiritual team mates" stuff OR "bts" OR "Entities"
OR "spirits" I just shake my head. It's truly amazing. I feel like I've been turned into something inside one of those TV programs, e.g "Bewitched" or that one where ordinary looking people are actually angels. There are lots of them. Why? Who would want a diet of that infantile crap? Answer? Lots of people. Big audience out there. Dollars to be made. Dollars = success. Success = dollars =

 

[Vinaire]

When I read this "spiritual team mates" stuff OR "bts" OR "Entities"
OR "spirits" I just shake my head. It's truly amazing. I feel like I've been turned into something inside one of those TV programs, e.g "Bewitched" or that one where ordinary looking people are actually angels. There are lots of them. Why? Who would want a diet of that infantile crap? Answer? Lots of people. Big audience out there. Dollars to be made. Dollars = success. Success = dollars =

= MEST Trap

.

 

[degraded being]

= MEST Trap

.

=?

 

[uniquemand]

I think he's saying that the quest for more dollars is a MEST trap.

 

[alex]

When I read this "spiritual team mates" stuff OR "bts" OR "Entities"
OR "spirits" I just shake my head. It's truly amazing. I feel like I've been turned into something inside one of those TV programs, e.g "Bewitched" or that one where ordinary looking people are actually angels. There are lots of them. Why? Who would want a diet of that infantile crap? Answer? Lots of people. Big audience out there. Dollars to be made. Dollars = success. Success = dollars =

No DB this is beyond money...

But I can understand the cognitive dissonance this could cause you.

 

[alex]

Here is how knowledgism recruits...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2001_June_1/ai_75188368/

"Walter and his staff offer a 3-day coaching and training hands-on seminar and workshop titled "Effective Handling Procedures." For more information call (940) 995-2054 or visit the Knowledgism web site at http://www.knowledgism.com. You can also email [email protected] or contact Mr. Barber's Philadelphia offices at (610) 847-2143."


Not from people looking for spiritual answers but business people.

 

[uniquemand]

Well, there are good reasons to think that business people are the ones most able to affect real change in the environment (not just the pollution issues stuff). Also, perhaps people who are business-people, themselves, have greater affinity for other business-people. There's no reason that there shouldn't be clearing groups dedicated to handling business-people, but that's not my angle. Mine is on seekers (some of whom might be business-people).

 

[alex]

Knowledgism's "OCA"

http://www.advancedlifeplan.com/

here is the $150 "OCA" type test that knowledgism uses.

So very similar to the one scientology uses.

 

[alex]

More knowledgism sites...Some you can tell you are getting into a spiritual practice, some not. Rebranded "new and improved" scientology..

http://www.mpoweron.com/ Linda Anthony Hill

http://www.whatmakesyoutick.org/ Colin Mills

http://tentwentyseventy.typepad.com/financial_literacy/get-free-stuff.html
Malcom John Bugler, note the offer of the "Life and skills Analysis" discounted from $150....(this is the knowledgism product)

http://www.livinginthegivingzone.com/ Bruce Painter

http://www.advancedlifeplan.com/

http://www.southdenver.onecoach.com/ Dave Fingers
http://www.sourcepointeinc.com/
http://www.increase-revenues-fast.com/



and previously posted


front groups such as

http://www.powerleadership.com/apl.htm#about Nice list of who they target.
http://www.zonesecrets.com/ ORDER NOW!
http://www.abilityconsultants.com/
http://www.advancedcoachingandleadership.com/
http://www.wisdompublishing.com/

or teaming with sales or business coaches such as:

http://www.simpleology.com/ Mark Joyner
https://www.richdadcoaching.com/ robert kiyosaki
http://www.spirit-intelligence.com/ David R J Powell
http://www.nichetech.com/ Daniel Barber
http://www.2dayevent.com/
http://www.tentwentyseventy.com/

or affiliated "field" processors:

http://www.pauldrayton.com/ Paul Drayton
http://www.maartenwillemsen.ch/ Maarten willemsen
http://theclearingsight.com/ jayne johnson
http://www.lynnejoymcfarland.com/ lynne joy mcfarland
http://www.lincorg.com/
http://www.lifetechnologies.biz/ Maureen Mahoney

 

[DartSmohen]

http://www.advancedlifeplan.com/

here is the $150 "OCA" type test that knowledgism uses.

So very similar to the one scientology uses.

Only similarity is that it it is based on the principle of having the person answer yes - maybe -no to a series of questions.

The evaluation of it is completely different to the Scientology procedure.

BTW, Hubbard "borrowed" the Scn OCA from an American Psychology evaluation test. It was shown to him by two psychologists, Ken & JuliaSalmon in the 1950's. It was known as the Oklahola Personality Test.

Dart