The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

I can't find anything you say that I disagree with!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCT9naHt2oo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1cfTMdjkYM&feature=related


so I just got this extraordinary, and yet common, cognition, that I need to share. Feel free to contribute or refute. Cognitions are like that.

in Sci and life , we keep wanting to envision (postulate) positive outcomes.

If you look at or read my posts, you see a recurrent thread: my vision of an ideal scene.

it includes (in no particular order) orchards, vegetables, family, skiing, scuba, horses, dogs, cats, sex, children, surf, ocean , mountains, auditing, tech, anti standard tech, anti Co$, community, driving fast on curvy roads, risk taking, practical economic thought, etc.

Everyone, for the most part, looks at what they want as a positive.

When I went Clear in June of 1971, I was so huge and simple -- all I could really do was smile, laugh, lay by the pool, fondle Mary Jo, and watch The Mark of Zorro on TV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VTyPWvyAF8

eventually life imposed its ugly head.

I came down, got fired for being a flake, and set off on a new (old) path.

What I needed after the big blow out of Clear was something on the line of "What game do I want to play?"

by this I mean opposition, evil, randomity, and last but not least, my own identity for the game.

so much of the game I entered into was old opp terms, old rigid rules, old values.

I didn't look and make a new enlightened game, but shrank into the old tired one.

When I blow out PCs, I always ask if there is a (proverbial) freight train headed for them. I've found that blow outs are followed by crashes with someone / something.

Really what is needed is the enlightened being to review old games and create a new one fully that they can be the "legend in their own mind" game player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xBHnm66y64

What do you think?

I can't find anything you say that I don't agree with. I think the objective of OT I was supposed to deal with this to some degree, you were supposed to walk around in the beautiful outdoors, looking and touching trees, flowers and the like. I do not think there was any effort made to help one decide what game they wanted to play. That decision had alread been made for you by LRH and he wanted you to play only his game!

This key point in one's life right after clear is where organized Scientology drops the ball. Hubbard already makes the decisioin for you of what game YOU want to play. THAT IS WRONG!! That is where the bridge goes astray in my opinion which is a new awareness I just had while writing this. Just look, there is near universal agreement on ESMB that the lower part of the bridge is where the gains lie, the upper part seems to come up way short of what is promised and often is attended by cancer of one form or another.

Carmelo, you saw the writing on the wall and ultimately did decide on the game you wanted to play after going Clear. The results are impressive. Few of us who stayed in and did what Ron told us to do after we were Clear have had the kinds of success you have enjoyed since you left.

For us old timers, we can still learn much in our later years but for the younger viewers of the board your experience is of vital importance, it should act as a bellweather and lead to younger people choosing their own path in life, fulfilling their own dreams and not subjugating their dreams to the dreams of some fancied Guru.

Thank you Carmelo for sharing your incites with us!
Lakey

 

[Badass]

I can't find anything you say that I don't agree with. I think the objective of OT I was supposed to deal with this to some degree, you were supposed to walk around in the beautiful outdoors, looking and touching trees, flowers and the like. I do not think there was any effort made to help one decide what game they wanted to play. That decision had alread been made for you by LRH and he wanted you to play only his game!

This key point in one's life right after clear is where organized Scientology drops the ball. Hubbard already makes the decisioin for you of what game YOU want to play. THAT IS WRONG!! That is where the bridge goes astray in my opinion which is a new awareness I just had while writing this. Just look, there is near universal agreement on ESMB that the lower part of the bridge is where the gains lie, the upper part seems to come up way short of what is promised and often is attended by cancer of one form or another.

Carmelo, you saw the writing on the wall and ultimately did decide on the game you wanted to play after going Clear. The results are impressive. Few of us who stayed in and did what Ron told us to do after we were Clear have had the kinds of success you have enjoyed since you left.

For us old timers, we can still learn much in our later years but for the younger viewers of the board your experience is of vital importance, it should act as a bellweather and lead to younger people choosing their own path in life, fulfilling their own dreams and not subjugating their dreams to the dreams of some fancied Guru.

Thank you Carmelo for sharing your incites with us!
Lakey

Holy smoke !

That was impressive Carmelo and Lakey !!!

And TOTALLY indicates to me.

Beautiful insight of the whole game !

This is a real jewel of knowledge to me.

Thank you both.

RafaelBadass

 

[lkwdblds]

Carmelo and I are like Ying and Yang

Holy smoke !

That was impressive Carmelo and Lakey !!!

And TOTALLY indicates to me.

Beautiful insight of the whole game !

This is a real jewel of knowledge to me.

Thank you both.

RafaelBadass

Carmelo and I are like Ying and Yang. He is the smooth, suave Dean Martin, I'm the clumsy, childlike Jerry Lewis. In spite of ourselves, we make a good team. I met Carmelo on July 4th and I am thinking to myself, "This guys my partner on the Apollo '73 thread??" He seems (to me) to be thinking, "Why the hell am I talking to this guy??" Yet when we collaborate and both contribute to a project, it flourishes and grows. Of course he has this happen without me contributing much more oftern than the other way around but even so, we both know that without working with the other guy, the Apollo '73 thread would have died out last November. Also, we both know that neither of us could start a new thread on our own or a new website, which would grow and build a following the way this one has. Believe me, I have tried some new threads alone with what I thought were hot buttons and Lakey alone on a new thread is good for about 2,200 views and 65 replies, no matter how much effort I put into the thread.

Hey Rafael, are you the Rafael who was over on Gier Isene's thread on the Scientology Forum which looked into the origins of life? That is probably you and it looks like you followed Vinaire over to this thread. Its nice to have you.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Carmelo and I are like Ying and Yang. He is the smooth, suave Dean Martin, I'm the clumsy, childlike Jerry Lewis. In spite of ourselves, we make a good team. I met Carmelo on July 4th and I am thinking to myself, "This guys my partner on the Apollo '73 thread??" He seems (to me) to be thinking, "Why the hell am I talking to this guy??" Yet when we collaborate and both contribute to a project, it flourishes and grows. Of course he has this happen without me contributing much more oftern than the other way around but even so, we both know that without working with the other guy, the Apollo '73 thread would have died out last November. Also, we both know that neither of us could start a new thread on our own or a new website, which would grown and build a following the way this one has. Believe me, I have tried some new threads alone with what I thought were hot buttons and Lakey alone on a new thread is good for about 2,200 views and 65 replies, no matter how much effort I put into the thread.

Hey Rafael, are you the Rafael who was over on Gier Isene's thread on the Scientology Forum which looked into the origins of life? That is probably you and it looks like you followed Vinaire over to this thread. Its nice to have you.
Lakey

Um, ah...

Lakey, the Chinese explanation for the workings of the universes is known as Yin and Yang.

Ying Yang is most of used with the phrase, "up the" or "up your" or "out the." Like, "He was a heavy roller and had bucks up the ying yang."

So just a clarification here: Are you and Carmelo like Ying and Yang or are you like Yin and Yang? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Thanks for that Facey! Well done! It is quite beautifully put, very clear, has great meaning for me, and resonates harmonically with my own world view. It has been said that fish do not perceive the water they are swimming in, I wonder if real "reality" is like that for us, too. Maybe it's easier to comprehend all this while in disembodied form...in the bardos or elsewhere...

But many of us like to be thinking about it and discussing it now!

Cool Sis...very cool.

Yes! Yes, exactly, re: reality…I think part of the “lure” of Scn—at least for this little Sea creature—was the concept comprehending while still embodied.

I spend my days now kinda transiently half “in”, then half “out”. Haven’t gotten use to it yet…very confusing at times but, overall, I like it, I really do like it!

Thank you for your post.

Face

 

[Ted]

Cool Sis...very cool.

Yes! Yes, exactly, re: reality…I think part of the “lure” of Scn—at least for this little Sea creature—was the concept comprehending while still embodied.

I spend my days now kinda transiently half “in”, then half “out”. Haven’t gotten use to it yet…very confusing at times but, overall, I like it, I really do like it!

Thank you for your post.

Face

I can dig it.

On review I can't say that I had any engrams this life. I've been punched, kicked, fallen down hard, knocked around in sports, had my big toe nearly pulled off in bicycle spokes... But none of it was an engram. Some of it was a secondary. The bicycle accident cost me my junior year in high school baseball. Drug engrams are a stretch of the imagination for me. I did not do drugs. My biggest item was bleach. Never ingested any, just can't stand the smell.

So what was the lure? The idea that someone through known processes had been able to separate a being from its body delivering to that being a certainty of self beyond the mortal meat.

Okay, that was both naive and narcissistic of me for sure. But what youth doesn't suffer from these two items while holding onto the idea that the world can be a better place than our mothers and fathers left us. :wink2:

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

This Gliks My Bick

Carmelo,

Your “Eight Miles High’ post is a stunner…’tis been brewin’ in me rumen most of the day.

So, how’s it you knows just what’s gonna give Ole Face here the right stuff at the perfect moment?:confused2:

Man, whatta yiddisher kop…zay gezundt, ya mentsh!

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I can't find anything you say that I don't agree with. I think the objective of OT I was supposed to deal with this to some degree, you were supposed to walk around in the beautiful outdoors, looking and touching trees, flowers and the like. I do not think there was any effort made to help one decide what game they wanted to play. That decision had alread been made for you by LRH and he wanted you to play only his game!

This key point in one's life right after clear is where organized Scientology drops the ball. Hubbard already makes the decisioin for you of what game YOU want to play. THAT IS WRONG!! That is where the bridge goes astray in my opinion which is a new awareness I just had while writing this. Just look, there is near universal agreement on ESMB that the lower part of the bridge is where the gains lie, the upper part seems to come up way short of what is promised and often is attended by cancer of one form or another.

Carmelo, you saw the writing on the wall and ultimately did decide on the game you wanted to play after going Clear. The results are impressive. Few of us who stayed in and did what Ron told us to do after we were Clear have had the kinds of success you have enjoyed since you left.

For us old timers, we can still learn much in our later years but for the younger viewers of the board your experience is of vital importance, it should act as a bellweather and lead to younger people choosing their own path in life, fulfilling their own dreams and not subjugating their dreams to the dreams of some fancied Guru.

Thank you Carmelo for sharing your incites with us!
Lakey

I do the green thing (highleted above) off and on during the day...good stuff!

Carmelo shares incites and insights with us...and methinks they's all just real peachy!

Nice post, Lakey.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Um, ah...

Lakey, the Chinese explanation for the workings of the universes is known as Yin and Yang.

Ying Yang is most of used with the phrase, "up the" or "up your" or "out the." Like, "He was a heavy roller and had bucks up the ying yang."

So just a clarification here: Are you and Carmelo like Ying and Yang or are you like Yin and Yang? Inquiring minds want to know.

How's about Mutt and Jeff...for us country folk?

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I can dig it.

On review I can't say that I had any engrams this life. I've been punched, kicked, fallen down hard, knocked around in sports, had my big toe nearly pulled off in bicycle spokes... But none of it was an engram. Some of it was a secondary. The bicycle accident cost me my junior year in high school baseball. Drug engrams are a stretch of the imagination for me. I did not do drugs. My biggest item was bleach. Never ingested any, just can't stand the smell.

So what was the lure? The idea that someone through known processes had been able to separate a being from its body delivering to that being a certainty of self beyond the mortal meat.

Okay, that was both naive and narcissistic of me for sure. But what youth doesn't suffer from these two items while holding onto the idea that the world can be a better place than our mothers and fathers left us. :wink2:

Man, there's a bunch of stuff in your post I get, Ted.

If we ever stop holding onto that idea we is all gonner's for sure.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Holy smoke !

That was impressive Carmelo and Lakey !!!

And TOTALLY indicates to me.

Beautiful insight of the whole game !

This is a real jewel of knowledge to me.

Thank you both.

RafaelBadass

Yep!

 

[Badass]

Carmelo and I are like Ying and Yang. He is the smooth, suave Dean Martin, I'm the clumsy, childlike Jerry Lewis. In spite of ourselves, we make a good team. I met Carmelo on July 4th and I am thinking to myself, "This guys my partner on the Apollo '73 thread??" He seems (to me) to be thinking, "Why the hell am I talking to this guy??" Yet when we collaborate and both contribute to a project, it flourishes and grows. Of course he has this happen without me contributing much more oftern than the other way around but even so, we both know that without working with the other guy, the Apollo '73 thread would have died out last November. Also, we both know that neither of us could start a new thread on our own or a new website, which would grow and build a following the way this one has. Believe me, I have tried some new threads alone with what I thought were hot buttons and Lakey alone on a new thread is good for about 2,200 views and 65 replies, no matter how much effort I put into the thread.

Hey Rafael, are you the Rafael who was over on Gier Isene's thread on the Scientology Forum which looked into the origins of life? That is probably you and it looks like you followed Vinaire over to this thread. Its nice to have you.
Lakey

Whatever the name you are just a fabulous pair ! ! (no pun intended).

Yes I am, but not sure if I will last long here...triyng to enjoy it while it lasts..

 

[thetanic]

I think the objective of OT I was supposed to deal with this to some degree, you were supposed to walk around in the beautiful outdoors, looking and touching trees, flowers and the like. I do not think there was any effort made to help one decide what game they wanted to play. That decision had alread been made for you by LRH and he wanted you to play only his game!

This key point in one's life right after clear is where organized Scientology drops the ball. Hubbard already makes the decisioin for you of what game YOU want to play. THAT IS WRONG!! That is where the bridge goes astray in my opinion which is a new awareness I just had while writing this. Just look, there is near universal agreement on ESMB that the lower part of the bridge is where the gains lie, the upper part seems to come up way short of what is promised and often is attended by cancer of one form or another.

I remember, back when I was on staff, hearing that certain public was "off-purpose."

"How do you know?" I'd ask.

"Well, you know," I'd hear.

"No. Tell me."

So they'd say their purpose was to be on staff, and I'd ask, "How do you know that?" And I'd point out things like, "Well, Scn's been around for 30 years and the person's 40, don't you think they had another life purpose given that they started earlier than Scn?"

I got hauled into Ethics for it more than once.

However, when I announced I was leaving staff because I was off-purpose, strangely, they agreed with me.

 

[FoTi]

I love this thread!!!!!

 

[Ted]

I remember, back when I was on staff, hearing that certain public was "off-purpose."

"How do you know?" I'd ask.

"Well, you know," I'd hear.

"No. Tell me."

So they'd say their purpose was to be on staff, and I'd ask, "How do you know that?" And I'd point out things like, "Well, Scn's been around for 30 years and the person's 40, don't you think they had another life purpose given that they started earlier than Scn?"

I got hauled into Ethics for it more than once.

However, when I announced I was leaving staff because I was off-purpose, strangely, they agreed with me.

Oh, yeah!

When I had not been involved very long I questioned why someone who knew little of scientology beyond the comm course would be joining the SO on a billion year contract. Seemed reasonable to me to find out what it was all about before making such a commitment. Even still, such a commitment seemed rather bizarre, but I kept my opinions to myself on that.

"Some beings get it right away," I was told. "It just indicates."

Oh, yeah. And I am too dense to take the leap. Fair enough.

 

[FoTi]

Oh, yeah!

When I had not been involved very long I questioned why someone who knew little of scientology beyond the comm course would be joining the SO on a billion year contract. Seemed reasonable to me to find out what it was all about before making such a commitment. Even still, such a commitment seemed rather bizarre, but I kept my opinions to myself on that.

"Some beings get it right away," I was told. "It just indicates."

Oh, yeah. And I am too dense to take the leap. Fair enough.

Aren't you glad you were too dense to take the leap?

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Buddies, Partners, and Partnerships

on the subject of buddies and partners:

There is Jon Miller and Joe Morgan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkiH9Xx_zxI

John Madden and Pat Summerall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNgaPmoIsOA&feature=related

Huntley Brinkley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnCA7z9Vohk&feature=related

Paul and Bob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck6vqsOt-Pc

Holmes and Watson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjEUNLtXmyU&feature=related

Johnny and Ed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC-25xPmX7o

Edgar and Charlie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnBgqCAZWaY

Bing and Bob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_w3UG6C_Mo&feature=related

This thread isn't a partnership.
It is an all star cast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maOQkmi6Xeo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2SpROYbYig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htli7MvJyTQ&feature=related

 

[lkwdblds]

I looked up the definition of Time and Viewpoint

Someone was so very kind as to send me over a copy of the tech dictionary. I just reproduced definitions number 6, 7 and 8 from that dictionary.

"6. an abstract manifestation which has no existence beyond
the idea of time occasioned by objects, where an object may
be either energy or matter. (Sen 8-8008, p. 26) 7. time is the
co-action of particles. You can't have action of particle at all
unless you have space, and when you have a change in space
then you have a different time. (PXL, p. 135) 8. time is a
consideration which brings about persistence. And the mechanic
of bringing about that persistence is, by alteration. And so we
have alter-is-ness taking place immediately after an as-is-ness is
created, and so we get persistence. In other words, we have to
change the location of a particle in space." (PXL, p. 114)

I like definition 8 the best which I put in bold type above. The last sentence in that definition states that to get persistence, we have to change the location of a particle in space. (i.e. this introduces the alter-is-ness taking place immediately after the as-isness is created.)

Vin, I see your point, unless alter-is-ness is introduced, the as-isness created will immediately vanish and thus for something to persist an alter-is-ness has had to occur. Therefor you are deducing that if the object is persisting, then by definition there is time even if there is no movement present.

I would counter that deduction by the very last sentence, "In other words, we have to change the location of a particle in space." This suggests to me that the only way to introduce persistence and bring about time is that 'we have to change the location of a particle in space'. This changing the location of a particle in space is also by definition called motion and that supports my contention that for time to be present, motion has to occur. Therefore, I believe I see your point, but I do not reach the conclusiion which you do because of the last sentence which I feel supports my position.

On the word viewpoint, towards the end of the definition, Ron states that a viewpoint may be a point of awareness and that this is the analytical definition of the word. This makes your point for you. There is no way for me to rebut your point in the definition itself.

Nevertheless, when I did my critique, I never said that a point of awareness could not exist but I said it would be better if it had its own name such as a point of awareness-viewpoint which would distinguish it from the normal usage of viewpoint which is a point from which to view things. I believe that from a viewpoint, one could exercise one's sight, smelll, hearing, touch and taste and probably most if not all of Hubbard's other perceptics, totalling I believe 57.

I do not believe that the sense of being aware is one of Hubbard's official perceptics. If it is, then you are correct in what you say. If it isn't then a different word such as "viewpoint of awareness" would be better so as to distinguish this point from other viewpoints. I definitely feel that being aware of being aware is not a routine perceptic such as taste or even sight. It seems to be a more fundamental condition of beingness.

After all, any sense channel can be cut off and a being is still a living being but if the sense of awareness is extinguished, the being probably ceases to exist for all practical purposes.

I remember last year, on "Oh!God!" that I asked you that if a being makes a decision "to be" and thereby becomes aware of being aware, can that being ever stop from "continuing to be". You answered very matter of factly that the answer was yes because the decision "to be" is a consideration and any consideration or postulate has to be kept created or it will die out.

Added the next morning based on a new Carmelo post. "A barmaid asks a nearly drunk Rene Descartes if he would like yet another drink and he replies, "I think not!" and he disappears!!

Final remarks about using Hubbard. It seems the days of just automatically accepting what Ron says are over for most of us who have left the C of S. I admit that the definitions for "time' and "viewpoint" are brilliant but so what. There is no longer any reason to accept at face value anything he says. We must work with his materials and decide ourselves as to their veracity. I agree that in the case of these two words, I feel comfortable using Hubbard's definitions.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Cogito ergo sum

René Descartes was having a drink in a tavern. One drink turned into another and another. He got sloshed. The barmaid asked him if he'd like another drink.

He replied, "I think not."

and with that, he disappeared.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Holy smoke !

That was impressive Carmelo and Lakey !!!

And TOTALLY indicates to me.

Beautiful insight of the whole game !

This is a real jewel of knowledge to me.

Thank you both.

RafaelBadass

Thank you. Please continue to contribute.